This morning i recieved an e mail from paypal , basically telling me that if i recieve any more payments as a gift after the 9th of october they could possibly disable my account .... I don't really sell that much and im not a dealer , just a collector that sells the odd spare or sell stuff to get a new 45 in the box , so i'd hardly say that im doing this on a frequent basis , as only around half of the payment i get are paid as gift . Has anyone else has this e mail ? i'd like to know if its just in spain where the crackdown is happening or all over europe , They must be getting wise to this and decided that enough is enough ! Any thoughts anyone ?

I'm not a tight wad by any means but hate paying fees for things I can avoid. Whenever I buy anything from online retailers I am happy to use paypal to pay as it gives a little protection. However for deals between friends (in this category I include all record purchasing from SS) I try to use bank transfers. you can split up the sharing of the account and sort code using different communications methods, email, text, instant message, to keep it secure, but there is no cost to either party and the money usually get to where it's needed quickly.

 

Just my humble preference.

Are you sure its not a scam email?? I get lots of scam emails from hackers trying to get my username and password.

I take a lot of "Gift" payments and have not had this email??

 

If Paypal contact you they will use your first name in the email and they will never ask you to sign in to Paypal through a link in the email.

 

 

Be VERY careful!

Someone else on SS mentioned that PayPal were indeed cracking down on abusing the "friends or relatives" option.  

 

Peter

Why they still get paid don't they? It's just who pays them....or am I missing something

Why they still get paid don't they? It's just who pays them....or am I missing something

 

If there is money in your paypal account there is no fee I believe.  The person paying doesn't pay anything?  You pay a fee if no money or not enough in your account.

 

It is getting abused by dealers though to avoid fees but who can blame them.  Paypal have you by the gonads really.

Edited October 7, 201311 yr by chalky

Are you sure its not a scam email?? I get lots of scam emails from hackers trying to get my username and password.

I take a lot of "Gift" payments and have not had this email??

 

If Paypal contact you they will use your first name in the email and they will never ask you to sign in to Paypal through a link in the email.

 

 

Be VERY careful!

No , iv'e had some of those scam ones before ! This looks pretty genuine and does'nt ask me to sign it etc ... i also can't understand why they mind , because as steve said they still take their %%

If there is money in your paypal account there is no fee I believe.  The person paying doesn't pay anything?  You pay a fee if no money or not enough in your account.

 

It is getting abused by dealers though to avoid fees but who can blame them.  Paypal have you by the gonads really.

 

Paypal still get paid tho, all that is tranferred from seller to buyer is WHo pays PP.

 HI ALL   if true I am not surprised as we all know how paypal makes their money, many banks dislike their customers using paypal they would rather you be loyal and use them, they all missed the boat due to their own mess in 2007, also it bugs me when dealers expect their customers to pay a bill that they should pay, a dealers tax, it can work out expensive for buyers to, if you are legit then you can get tax relief, as some adverts even on this site are raking it in, then making out it's a hobby, and asking the buyer be my mate and pay my tax on your perches, I say do behave mush  DAVE

Paypal still get paid tho, all that is tranferred from seller to buyer is WHo pays PP.

 

Chalky's right Steve. Essentially if there's funds in your account and something is paid marked as gift then there is no charge for the sender or recipient. I think this also applies when your account is set up linked to your bank account rather than debit card, but couldnt be 100% on that one. 

 

Azza

OK thanks for clarifying...I only buy, don't sell 

 

But I am getting sympathy with Dave, about the increasing trend towards "paypal as a gift".....

Don't you have to sign, or agree certain terms after a certain amount goes through your Pay pal account? kinda remember doing something like that, so this is there to make you declare whether your a dealer say, using the account for business purposes, or doing it privately as it were. I'd think they might not, or cannot give that info out, but if customs or any tax departments come knocking, they would give that information up freely I'd assume.

 

thats it, its there for money laundering, but obviously applies to this??

 

M

Sellers at the end of the day should factor fees in to the sale price, they shouldn't ask for gift from someone they don't know and you should never send anything via gift if you don't know the seller as you are not covered if anything goes wrong.

 HI ALL   if true I am not surprised as we all know how paypal makes their money, many banks dislike their customers using paypal they would rather you be loyal and use them, they all missed the boat due to their own mess in 2007, also it bugs me when dealers expect their customers to pay a bill that they should pay, a dealers tax, it can work out expensive for buyers to, if you are legit then you can get tax relief, as some adverts even on this site are raking it in, then making out it's a hobby, and asking the buyer be my mate and pay my tax on your perches, I say do behave mush  DAVE

Very well said Dave!

Sending gift payments to USA from your UK paypal balance incur a 1% fee even if you have the full funds as credit in your account balance, and even if you convert your main currency to $s.

What I don't get is, if they don't like it, why offer the option? Why not charge a fee anyway? And why threaten to close down your account? Without users and accounts Paypal will fail to exist. It doesn't make sense, unless someone has more info on how it all works.

Someone else on SS mentioned that PayPal were indeed cracking down on abusing the "friends or relatives" option.  

 

Peter

 

I've mentioned it a couple of times over the years and it's one of those posts that tends to get ignored usually. Think my last and recent post was something like:

 

Requesting or making a GIFT payment when it's not for a gift but is for goods and/or services is against Paypal/Ebay rules and this misuse can cause you to have the whole paypal facility made unavailable to you.

 

It's buried somewhere in their Terms & Conditions, and apparently they actively seek out those abusing the process.

 

I know many people use/expect to be gifted all the time and have flown under the radar for years and never had a problem. This instance is the first I've heard of someone on here getting caught out.

 

 

The choice is yours, but it galls me when sellers practically demand a gift payment.

 

 - Kev

Edited October 7, 201311 yr by KevinKent

What I don't get is, if they don't like it, why offer the option? Why not charge a fee anyway? And why threaten to close down your account? Without users and accounts Paypal will fail to exist. It doesn't make sense, unless someone has more info on how it all works.

Maybe because there are people you do use it to send friends or relatives gifts - whereas now it is abused by dealers and others demanding the buyer pay the premium and as such Paypal are not making as much money as they could/should.  So like everything else it will be spoilt for everyone.  I have never thought the charges excessive for making secure payments quickly and safely - it ain't a charity!

I've mentioned it a couple of times over the years and it's one of those posts that tends to get ignored usually. Think my last and recent post was something like:

 

Requesting or making a GIFT payment when it's not for a gift but is for goods and/or services is against Paypal/Ebay rules and this misuse can cause you to have the whole paypal facility made unavailable to you.

 

It's buried somewhere in their Terms & Conditions, and apparently they actively seek out those abusing the process.

 

I know many people use/expect to be gifted all the time and have flown under the radar for years and never had a problem. This instance is the first I've heard of someone on here getting caught out.

 

 

The choice is yours, but it galls me when sellers practically demand a gift payment.

 

 - Kev

Hi Kev

 

Yes, it was your post I read and was referring to mate.

 

Peter

 

What I don't get is, if they don't like it, why offer the option? Why not charge a fee anyway? And why threaten to close down your account? Without users and accounts Paypal will fail to exist. It doesn't make sense, unless someone has more info on how it all works.

I suspect that they offer it  because it's a good way for families and friends to exchange money - basically it's a good service, one of their unique selling points. I also suspect that it generates lots of other business for them. The fact that it is being abused will cut down their margins. Why shouldn't they threaten to close someone's account for breaking the rules? Why should the people who genuinely use the friend/relatives free option lose a decent service because other people are abusing it.

 

It makes perfect sense - all of it.

 

I'm sorry but I don't follow your logic at all.

 

Peter

Edited October 7, 201311 yr by Peter99

When NFC technology takes off (been trying in the UK for a couple of years now, but it's definitely close) then PayPal are gonna lose a big chunk of revenue on these private deals anyway I suspect.

Obviously there's the huge issue of security with mobile payments but it will mobile to mobile payments, straight into your bank, at the cost of a few pence will be big business.

PayPal will still have the eBay monopoly, but these typical 'gift' style payments will elude them.

I don't mind that they're clamping down on it.

It just grates me about the fact you have to pay them when selling with eBay......first the eBay fee then PayPal fee, owned by the same peeps. 4% is higher than a retail unit pays for a debit card transaction so I think it's a rip off

Best thing would be if the prices were showed with all options, for example -

 

£9.60 if you pay cash and collect it from my house and come at a suitable time, but don't expect a cuppa, or to be allowed to use my toilet.

£10 if you pay paypal and collect it from my house, again at a suitable time, but not if the football is on.

£12 if you send me cash in the post and want me to post it you

£12.50 if you pay paypal and want it posted to you standard post

£16.55 if you send me cash and want it sent back to you insured and next day delivery

£17.65 if you pay paypal and want it sent back to you insured and next day delivery

my maths ain't brilliant, but roughly all these things mean the seller gets no more than £9.60, even though somebody has shelled out as much as £17.65.Makes venue buying look better doesn't it ?

 

Can't leave it like that though, from there we could have further price increases for the use of "brand new mailer" ( why do folk think this is a plus? I'd rather people recycle old cardboard, save the planet, man ! )  or my absolute favourite that I see regularly on ebay.com, "also includes a charge for me to drive it to the nearest post office which is 60 miles away, which is why I only go once a week or so, depending on if I've had many orders, meaning if I've only got a couple of records to post out you'll have to wait until I sell at least another ten to make it worth my time, which I'm only charging you at 20 dollars an hour"

 

absolute bargain ;-)

I suspect that they offer it  because it's a good way for families and friends to exchange money - basically it's a good service, one of their unique selling points. I also suspect that it generates lots of other business for them. The fact that it is being abused will cut down their margins. Why shouldn't they threaten to close someone's account for breaking the rules? Why should the people who genuinely use the friend/relatives free option lose a decent service because other people are abusing it.

 

It makes perfect sense - all of it.

 

I'm sorry but I don't follow your logic at all.

 

Peter

I didn't particularly offer any logic. I asked a few questions looking for any further info that might clarify the position. You and others have provided that, so thanks very much. I see the problem that Paypal has. It raises the next question though, should we be telling all the sellers who pretty much demand 'as gift', that they can't do that? That'll ruffle a few feathers :-)

 

Can't leave it like that though, from there we could have further price increases for the use of "brand new mailer" ( why do folk think this is a plus? I'd rather people recycle old cardboard, save the planet, man ! )  

 

The reason this is a plus, or why it's mentioned, is because if people charge an extra 50p for 'packing' and it arrives in recycled mailer/cardboard then you've given them 50p for absolutely nothing.

I didn't particularly offer any logic. I asked a few questions looking for any further info that might clarify the position. You and others have provided that, so thanks very much. I see the problem that Paypal has. It raises the next question though, should we be telling all the sellers who pretty much demand 'as gift', that they can't do that? That'll ruffle a few feathers :-)

 

I've never 'demanded' a gift payment, but have taken over a thousand of them without a single problem so it works for me and my customers.

I've never 'demanded' a gift payment, but have taken over a thousand of them without a single problem so it works for me and my customers.

I guess im just unlucky then ! i only take maybe two or three payments a week , but i would say at least half of them are as a gift .... Iv'e been warned by them anyway , that they dont see a change in how im using the gift option after the 9th then they will look at closing my account .... looks like ill have to include the option in my prices or ask for the seller to include the %

I guess im just unlucky then ! i only take maybe two or three payments a week , but i would say at least half of them are as a gift .... Iv'e been warned by them anyway , that they dont see a change in how im using the gift option after the 9th then they will look at closing my account .... looks like ill have to include the option in my prices or ask for the seller to include the %

 

If you ask the buyer to include the paypal % then some bright spark is gonna think to make a gift payment to avoid the extra. Just include all your costs in the price.

 

 - Kev

I guess im just unlucky then ! i only take maybe two or three payments a week , but i would say at least half of them are as a gift .... Iv'e been warned by them anyway , that they dont see a change in how im using the gift option after the 9th then they will look at closing my account .... looks like ill have to include the option in my prices or ask for the seller to include the %

 

Maybe because it's usually relatively small amounts?  £5's, £10's etc?  Or maybe something to do with being registered as a business?  I've no idea.  I've been paying my rent to the same person as a gift for 4 years as well, that must amount to thousands.

If you ask the buyer to include the paypal % then some bright spark is gonna think to make a gift payment to avoid the extra. Just include all your costs in the price.

 

 - Kev

 

As I said, in my case, I don't ask, people just send it, they must almost always have their accounts in credit. They know they're going to get their records.

As I said, in my case, I don't ask, people just send it, they must almost always have their accounts in credit. They know they're going to get their records.

 

 And that's the way I do it as a buyer Pete.  If someone is a mate or a seller that I use regularly, then I may well choose to make a gift payment as a 'thankyou'.

 

Thing is now, I wouldn't know if they're being scrutinised by paypal and I might be giving them grief (probably not - but it could happen).

 

 - Kev.

I guess im just unlucky then ! i only take maybe two or three payments a week , but i would say at least half of them are as a gift .... Iv'e been warned by them anyway , that they dont see a change in how im using the gift option after the 9th then they will look at closing my account .... looks like ill have to include the option in my prices or ask for the seller to include the %

 

Thinking about this - it's got to be the amount of money involved, I don't think they would bat an eyelid at £100 a week, but £500+ a week might get them suspicious.

As Mal has mentioned above, I think PayPal are more concerned with being tough on perceived “layering” in relation to Money Laundering rules than missing out on commission.  If you pay for goods in the standard way, you theoretically have a real reason for a transaction and an audit trail can be identified.  Whereas F/F is a bit grey, which is probably why their being so hot on those type of payments.

-

 

£9.60 if you pay cash and collect it from my house and come at a suitable time, but don't expect a cuppa, or to be allowed to use my toilet.

£10 if you pay paypal and collect it from my house, again at a suitable time, but not if the football is on.

£12 if you send me cash in the post and want me to post it you

£12.50 if you pay paypal and want it posted to you standard post

£16.55 if you send me cash and want it sent back to you insured and next day delivery

£17.65 if you pay paypal and want it sent back to you insured and next day delivery

 

 

when i read this i thought  richard domar was back in business

 

I've never 'demanded' a gift payment, but have taken over a thousand of them without a single problem so it works for me and my customers.

Fair point Pete, you don't, but quite a few do. I buy more than I sell, and have often bought and sent the payment 'as gift', which means I pay the fees. If that's wrong then I'm not going to argue, but, to be fair, paying the fees has never been a particular hassle to me. I wasn't aware that Paypal were getting a bit hot under the collar about it.

Thinking about this - it's got to be the amount of money involved, I don't think they would bat an eyelid at £100 a week, but £500+ a week might get them suspicious.

?..the down side of buying a £1000 45 one week and selling it for £1100 the next...

?..the down side of buying a £1000 45 one week and selling it for £1100 the next...

 Ah! you see this is where I beat them , I buy a record one week for £40 and sell it a couple of weeks later for £20 if I'm lucky    , you will not be seeing me on Dragons Den methinks 

 

As a seller, to me, paypal fees are the 'cost of doing business'

 

A record bought directly off my website or from my ebay shop etc attracts paypal fees, end of!

 

However, when a record is reserved from say, soul-source etc this is what I always put on my confirmation email to them-

 

***If you are able to pay me as a 'GIFT' that would be great. No problems whatsoever if you can't, just pay me by PayPal as normal?***

 

People who tend to know me or who have bought from me before often pay as a gift BUT i have no problem if anyone wants to pay as normal?

 

As a buyer, I tend to always have a balance in my paypal account, so if i buy from someone I know and trust or who i've bought from before and trust, i will pay as a gift without a problem cos it does not cost me anything as i've already paid fees to get the money in my account in the first place! If i haven't bought from them before i pay as normal because you have more protection (think most people are aware of the differences in protection from gift and normal?)

 

Finally, any dealer or seller who is arrogant enough to 'insist' on a gift, or even worse, goes for the 'if paying by paypal add 4%' bollocks won't get my business I'm afraid!

 

This is only my outlook on it and i'm sure many others will disagree?

 

Cheers

Steve

 

As a seller, to me, paypal fees are the 'cost of doing business'

 

A record bought directly off my website or from my ebay shop etc attracts paypal fees, end of!

 

However, when a record is reserved from say, soul-source etc this is what I always put on my confirmation email to them-

 

***If you are able to pay me as a 'GIFT' that would be great. No problems whatsoever if you can't, just pay me by PayPal as normal?***

 

People who tend to know me or who have bought from me before often pay as a gift BUT i have no problem if anyone wants to pay as normal?

 

As a buyer, I tend to always have a balance in my paypal account, so if i buy from someone I know and trust or who i've bought from before and trust, i will pay as a gift without a problem cos it does not cost me anything as i've already paid fees to get the money in my account in the first place! If i haven't bought from them before i pay as normal because you have more protection (think most people are aware of the differences in protection from gift and normal?)

 

Finally, any dealer or seller who is arrogant enough to 'insist' on a gift, or even worse, goes for the 'if paying by paypal add 4%' bollocks won't get my business I'm afraid!

 

This is only my outlook on it and i'm sure many others will disagree?

 

Cheers

Steve

 

 

No, I agree with everything you've written and do exactly the same

No, I agree with everything you've written and do exactly the same

Nice one Pete and I must say, I've sent you a few 'gifts' in me time too 

Nice one Pete and I must say, I've sent you a few 'gifts' in me time too 

 

Yeah and I sent you one gift I'll never live down 

Yeah and I sent you one gift I'll never live down 

Hee Hee nice one, I remember it well 

No, I agree with everything you've written and do exactly the same

 

Ditto,

 

It should be up to the buyer whether they send as a gift.