This is the first time Ive posted on here. But after an experience last night I felt compelled to write. For the past 3 years I've lived in the US  and so have not been to any UK venues for a while. Last week I  was in the UK for a couple of days and decided to drop in on the "Solid Gold Soul" night at Mansfield Civic Centre last night.  Wow! I was horrified. It was full and I mean FULL of handbaggers, mediocre music, drinks on the dance floor - the lot. Is that what the Northern scene has come to in the UK? 

 

Ive been reading on here about the recent Butlins weekender with attendance of over 7,000. At first I was impressed however, after last night, I have to ask - how many of those 7,000 were true soulies and how many were these clowns who have no clue about the music, the dancing or the heritage and are only there for the social side and to get tanked up!

 

Sorry if anyone feels  offended  but what I witnessed last night was a travesty masquerading as a Northern Soul night. It was like a huge wedding reception where all the adults are pissed trying to dance to Freda Payne ( and ... yes - they did play that as well !).

 

If thats what over commercialisation has done for this scene then God help us!

 

 

 

 

 

There are actually 2 issues here.  One is encouraging & tolerating new folk who are genuinely interested in the music, much like we were when we began our journey & Im all for that. 

 

The second is people who are coming along & have no idea really whats going on, they may be vaguely familar with a bit of soul & Motown, but in all honesty you could be playing pretty much any genre of music, so long as its singalong, good time, party music, its a Disco for geriatrics & older singles, who on the whole, want to get pissed n get thier leg over if possible, once tanked up anyone is fair game for a piss take n if there are regular soulies in the gaff theyre at the sharp end.

 

I dont think, that on the whole, proper soul music events suffer that much with the latter & if they do, its usually nipped in the bud.  However, there are promoters out there that dont give a hoot about the music or the punters, they are selling a product & NS is the en vogue thing, everyone thinks they know what NS is, if theye of a certain age & the promoters will pretty much give em what they want so long as theyre making a profit, its not about the music or the scene or any thing else, theyve seen a way of getting bums on seats & making money...end of.

 

Go to the events you enjoy & give the others a wide birth.

 

Russ

 

I think there is a third issue, that of too many venues chasing too few customers, therefore many promoters, and indeed their regular customers, will (or is that should) be happy for the additional trade in order to make the venture financially viable.  No promoter wants to operate at a loss, and no regular wants to see their local venue close due to lack of support.  Inevitably, it will be survival of the fittest, as it always has been, with the best venues keeping their regulars happy whilst welcoming newcomers.  With a lot of venues, compromises have to be made as they do not attract the travelling masses.  As has been said previously, go to the events that cater for your particular needs, even if it means going further afield.  If you're not prepared, or are unable to do that, then you'll just have to accept what you've got.

In response to Daz Watson's post yesterday i also feel "compelled" to write..Firstly, Mansfield Civic Centre soul night has NEVER been advertised or "masqueraded" anywhere as a Northern Soul night in all of the almost ten years it has been running with 300+ monthly attendance. Perhaps instead of slagging off a venue that was not to HIS  taste, he should actually READ the flyer or advertisements! which clearly state Its a Motown, Soul Chart Hits and Classic Soul night nowhere does it mention Northern Soul.

Secondly this is a very popular night in Mansfield for people who like this type of venue handbaggers or whatever, not everyone is "pissed up"  and there are no drinks on the dancefloor did he not see the excellent  security company employed  there? Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I SUGGEST HE GETS HIS FACTS RIGHT BEFORE MAKING CRASS COMMENTS.

 

As I've stated earlier, I have no axe to grind at all, go to the venues that suit you n enjoy yourself, but I thought I should make you aware that your comment above is incorrect as per the events on SS.

 

'Popular the 3rd Friday in the month atb soul nite Motown,Northern,Philly,60ts Club Classics,Modern Soul'

 

If a person planning to attend a venue read that blurb, it clearly states Northern (Soul).

 

Best Russ

 

In response to Daz Watson's post yesterday i also feel "compelled" to write..Firstly, Mansfield Civic Centre soul night has NEVER been advertised or "masqueraded" anywhere as a Northern Soul night in all of the almost ten years it has been running with 300+ monthly attendance. Perhaps instead of slagging off a venue that was not to HIS  taste, he should actually READ the flyer or advertisements! which clearly state Its a Motown, Soul Chart Hits and Classic Soul night nowhere does it mention Northern Soul.

Secondly this is a very popular night in Mansfield for people who like this type of venue handbaggers or whatever, not everyone is "pissed up"  and there are no drinks on the dancefloor did he not see the excellent  security company employed  there? Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I SUGGEST HE GETS HIS FACTS RIGHT BEFORE MAKING CRASS COMMENTS.

 

Reet - I see you only joined soul source this afternoon. Somebody tip you off about this thread?  I'm not a site moderator. However, it's common courtesy and site rules to introduce yourself in the "members shout" section prior to posting  Get's you off on the right footing then.

Edited October 20, 201311 yr by Mick McGarry

It's unfortunate Daz Watson that you went to a venue that didn't live up to your expectations. I can assure you that there are plenty of venues around that you would thoroughly enjoy. Lots of local venues are built up to cater for the so called Handbag crowd, they are aimed at providing those people with entertainment. I'm quite sure that the regular attendees, go out, socialise with their friends, have a dance and generally have a good time. So we shouldn't really knock them. You pay your money you take your choice. Looking at the DJ lineup should give a good indication of what to expect musically.

If a promoter makes a bit of money, or even a lot of money, then fair play. He has probably put a lot of time and effort into making his night successful. Personally, my aim is to providing people with a good night out. Hopefully sending people home happy to come again and musically fulfilled.

 

With regards to 'New Blood'. I am 100% for it. The young people that I know personally, are very enthusiastic, musically openminded and as much in to the scene as I ever was. I respect them as they respect me. I say, encourage new blood, they are the future of the soul scene. Without them, it dies with us.

We have a local do in town at one of the Pubs that's organised by a few lads who, to be honest have never been involved in the scene (Nearly put 'Our' scene) and that's where the problem (if it is one) lies . They're a bunch of lads ( Blokes actually 'cause they're in their 40's) who love all the stuff we had the pleasure of hearing all those years ago. The thing is I have been a couple of times and it's all off CD but they get 40-60 folk in there and it's only a small place.

 

I Spat my dummy out one night because the CD was left on a started playing again WTF!! My gripe was that some of the tunes on the CD I have on Vinyl and paid good money for but to honest they dont really give 2 flying fooks but there were a lot of people enjoying themselves , no handbags or beer on the dancefloor though.

 

At least new people are getting to hear stuff and gaining an interest in the music, which surely isn't a bad thing , or is it ?

 

It's not and shouldn't be a Secret Society

 

Just my thoughts really

 

Swifty

 

p.s. One of the lads that runs it asked me how I play 'them American record with no middle'

 

I like it being a 'secret society'.....and it is 'our' scene.

 

But everyone's welcome as far as I'm concerned

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Good point and one that often gets overlooked is the honesty of the scene that firstimers don't understand, your bag,coat whatever is safe left unattended,I have personally only seen one thing go missing at a Northern night, a coat with the car keys in the pocket,a full scale search entailed with everyone getting wound up at such a thing happening.The coats were hung in a communal area, turned out my mate, not a regular at the venue had left early , had the same coat at home and thinking he had worn it on the night just put it on and walked home,all was resolved next morning to everyones satisfaction ,honest mistake albiet a stupid one.

 

It hasn't always been like that though, has it? you used to have to bolt things down way back when...

It hasn't always been like that though, has it? you used to have to bolt things down way back when...

 

Damn right, I think in an 'ideal Northern Soul World' this may be the case......but I won't forget having me fags nicked at The Ritz in Manchester in the 90's, that incidently also had a nice Jo*nt hidden in there for the next morning - There has always been crooks everywhere, although the ones I refer to being somewhat 'relaxed' with a smile upon their faces  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited October 20, 201311 yr by LEN

I don't think any of us have a problem with those venue's that set out to just be your A typical 'Motown & Classic Soul' type nights aimed at the Social Crowd. The problem is many of the longer running 'Northern' nights which were never exactly 'Rare', BUT would at least try and introduce their punters to something a little different, have now been forced to abandon this policy in favour of a VERY rigid Oldies playlist for fear that their 'Handbag' contingent will just disappear off to one of the countless other venues offering the 'Same Old'...

 

Like it or not the handbag/fancy dress scene is pretty much THE  scene at present!.

I like it being a 'secret society'.....and it is 'our' scene.

 

But everyone's welcome as far as I'm concerned

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Len , so do I and if I'd of put 'our' scene I'd of got slaughtered I reckon because it doesn't belong to anyone , although I know what you mean

 

 

Swifty

I don't think any of us have a problem with those venue's that set out to just be your A typical 'Motown & Classic Soul' type nights aimed at the Social Crowd. The problem is many of the longer running 'Northern' nights which were never exactly 'Rare', BUT would at least try and introduce their punters to something a little different, have now been forced to abandon this policy in favour of a VERY rigid Oldies playlist for fear that their 'Handbag' contingent will just disappear off to one of the countless other venues offering the 'Same Old'...

 

Like it or not the handbag/fancy dress scene is pretty much THE  scene at present!.

 

Agreed, I think it beneficial to embrace this change rather than fight against it, because it is a fact.

 

Excuse this 'blatant' plug, but we have done exactly that at 'Soul in the Bowl' here in Northants, advertising in local newspapers etc - The upshot being that we attract over 250 people, yes some we see as 'Bubble Wrap', but they come, they ad to the great atmosphere, and have a great time - Some of these newcomers seem intrigued with 'Len's Den' (which is the second room) and feel comfortable staying in there albeit 'sight seeing'. All this has got to better than a room with not enough people playing great music, with no atmosphere.

 

It works well for us anyway.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Len , so do I and if I'd of put 'our' scene I'd of got slaughtered I reckon because it doesn't belong to anyone , although I know what you mean

 

 

Swifty

 

It does - It belongs to me  

 

 

 

Len  

It does - It belongs to me  

 

 

 

Len  

It's mine !

It's mine !

 

To be serious for  moment, we do actually feel this way, and it shows in the way folk are so protective of it - I like that. But as I said, there's no point fighting against something we ain't gonna win, so 'flip it on it's head', and make it advantageous to us.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Quite funny really.

10 years ago folks were moaning about the scene dying & being on it's arse.

5 years ago they were moaning about there being too many venue's & now they're moaning about new people actually attending these new venue's.

Wonder what folks will be moaning about in 5 years time

No room for zimmer frames on the dance floor!

A little 'off topic' this, but I wanted to share this experience - Last night I went to an event at The Nags Head in Wollaston (Northants). Now, to the 'untrained' eye, it would have looked like a 'Handbag' event, it was a room full of 60 plus year olds, all reliving their youth. I had a brief chat with this guy, he said (and I quote) "I was here 45 years ago, every weekend off me nut - I loved it".......and to see these guys 'doing their thing' on the dance floor to tunes like 'Green Onions' etc was a privilege. They were 'doing it' before Wigan, and even before The Wheel - They really did have 'an edge' about them.

 

Point being - Don't 'write off' all these 'old f*ckers'

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited October 20, 201311 yr by LEN

It hasn't always been like that though, has it? you used to have to bolt things down way back when...

 

I lost my shirt at a certain casino.

I went to the Kings Hall Stoke all nighter and felt the same about the music!, people dancing around the same old records!

 

You were in the wrong room.....if you want different then the Rare an Underplayed room is where you need to be.

As I've stated earlier, I have no axe to grind at all, go to the venues that suit you n enjoy yourself, but I thought I should make you aware that your comment above is incorrect as per the events on SS.

 

'Popular the 3rd Friday in the month atb soul nite Motown,Northern,Philly,60ts Club Classics,Modern Soul'

 

If a person planning to attend a venue read that blurb, it clearly states Northern (Soul).

 

Best Russ

Anyone reading that blurb would know it was not a full on Northern night

A year ago to-day Mr Hampsey wrote a great article it's a little long (But Please read it) I think it needs another airing.

 

There are a myriad of offshoots, born out of ‘Northern Soul’ (Crossover, Modern etc.) but we might classify the two main factions as the ‘Progressive Northern’ scene and the ‘Nostalgia Northern' scene.

They are related but they are not the same. They’re probably cousins and certainly not twins. They have the same genes… but not the same jeans… lol.

They are different.

1. ‘Progressive Northern’

The ‘Progressive Northern’ scene is frequented by folks who want to hear, play and discover tracks that are ‘new to them’.
The crowd at these events want to ‘hear something different’ on a regular basis, to keep them stimulated and to ‘keep them coming back for more’ — ‘Just like it was in the old days’… seeking out the next big tune, being true to the ‘ethos’ and ‘Keeping The Faith’.

The DJ’s on this ‘Progressive Northern’ scene tend to play new and more recent discoveries. They are as conscious of the 40+ year history as anyone else- they need to be, to ensure that what they are ‘breaking’ is truly ‘new’ or exclusive - but it is these DJ’s - and those who eagerly attend wherever they play - that keeps that particular scene going. They work hard at it, are dedicated, some might say fanatical about their chosen path. They constantly seek those elusive sounds (some of which actually become popular) and are generally the most passionate people you could ever wish to meet when it comes to talking about the music.

And good luck to ‘em. If you or they have got the energy, mental capacity, knowledge, drive, enthusiasm, resources, lifestyle, contacts and (I hate to say it) finances it’s a noble and enjoyable pursuit.

In this scene, and there are numerous exceptions, many discovered the music in the latter days of Wigan or sometime after it closed its doors. They found ‘Northern Soul’ at such places as Stafford, 100 Club, Rotherham, Bradford, Warrington, Keele and in later years Lifeline, Burnley etc. all venues with a culture of ‘progression’ coupled with something of a ‘siege mentality’ as defenders of a dying faith (remember when the black gloves came out again?).

2. ‘Nostalgia Northern’

The ‘Nostalgia Northern’ scene is a different animal. This particular scene is frequented by people who want to hear and play tracks that are familiar to them, to keep them stimulated and to ‘keep them coming back for more’ — ‘Just like it was in the old days’… reminiscing about their youth, being true to the old tunes and ‘Keeping The Faith’.

They probably left the scene sometime before Wigan closed its doors, missed the 80’s and 90’s, spent the decades, between then and now, growing up, getting married, having kids, living and working to pay the mortgage, getting divorced, being made redundant, retraining for a new career, paying off the Mortgage, remarrying and then rediscovering their youth… at the working men’s club… at the bottom of the road, where on the weekend, they play a bit of ‘Northern Soul’.

They don’t want, or need, to travel around the country each and every weekend in pursuit of the ‘next big thing’ or new discovery. Why should they? Those days are long gone for these folk. Northern Soul (as they always knew it) is right on the doorstep. In many Northern Clubs, the dominoes, bingo and ‘turn’ have been replaced by some chap with a box of records. And these old ‘sounds’ remind our typical male of his youth. He has a few Beers with his mates, he might even shake a leg to ‘Landslide’ or ‘Freddie Chavez’ — the wife likes it too — nowt wrong with a bit o’ Motown — and as he leaves he picks up a flyer for an upcoming Weekender. Fancy that our lass? Sunshine, Fish & Chips & Northern Soul? And the rest is ‘a life based on’ history or ‘instant nostalgia’ as Dave Withers once said!

Nothing new there. Old folk have been looking in the rear-view mirror for thousands of years. But, unlike previous generations, these 50 or 60 something’s won’t have to rely on the British Legion, or grow old alone. Thank God. They can grow old disgracefully if they choose to, at the seaside, two or three times a year, or at any number of events across the north that might take their fancy; enjoying a beer or two, catching up with old faces and making new friends, to incredible music that takes them back a bit, keeps the pulse racing, raises a smile and keeps the heartbeat turned up!

And good luck to ‘em. If they have ‘still’ got the energy, enthusiasm, resources, lifestyle and finances it’s a noble and enjoyable pursuit.

And it sure beats crown green bowling!

As it happens, the ‘Nostalgia Northern’ scene has taken to playing and enjoying more ‘post Wigan’ sounds in recent years. The NS Top 500 has recently been revised to reflect this. Not too very long ago ‘I’m So Happy’ and ‘Home Is Where The Heart Is’ were considered ‘Modern’ by many, whereas now some of these are considered passé, by those more ‘adventurous’ down at the club!

Probably a separate thread entirely, but there's a lot more to this than can be explained in a simple post, on a thread, in a forum about whether a DJ should or shouldn’t risk clearing a dancefloor, by playing something out of the ordinary, but I do tend to think there’s also an element of demographic and regional differences (North and South) involved here.

Up North there are literally tens of thousands of folk who went to Wigan, Samanthas and Cleggy... etc. Let’s face it; Northern Soul hasn’t been an ‘underground’ scene up here for nearly 40 years. That genie flew out of the lamp a very long time ago. Northern Soul was actually ‘a way of life’ for most young people, in the towns and villages of the north. They might not have all been hard-core nighter goers (although many of them certainly were) but your Postman, the village Bobby, the Butcher, the Landlord at the local all bought a copy of Tami Lynn ‘Run Away’ and the Tams ‘Hey Girl Don’t Bother Me’ in the early 70’s followed by a Judy Street, a copy of ‘Out On The Floor’ and a Mike Post Coalition during the Casino years! — I imagine it’s not quite like that south of Watford, where there have always been many alternative entertainment opportunities vying for attention and where ‘Northern Soul’ was and is still seen as an ‘exclusive’ club that has to be ‘travelled’ for.

I know it’s probably a separate subject all on its own, but the reality is that the heritage (Nostalgia) side of things and the ‘legacy’ of the Northern Scene, at its absolute zenith in the 70’s, in the North of England, is still seen as one of the things that many Northerners feel quite proud of. And (even though many got busy doing other things, some 30 odd years ago) just like a prodigal son, it seems somehow more valuable to them now. Middle age brings greater lifestyle choice and ‘Northern Soul’ is something many want to celebrate and enjoy, free of someone else’s ‘rules’ and ‘pressures’, and they might just want to relive a bit of it all over again.

One bloke I spoke to recently said that, since he retired, he and the Mrs now take all their holidays literally ‘on the scene’. There are enough weekenders throughout the year to be able to have 2-3 mini-breaks a year without having to leave the country (but for the more adventurous, there’s plenty going on abroad also).

It’s inevitable that for my generation at least, the trip to Blackpool to ‘see the lights’ will have soon been completely eclipsed by the Northern Soul Weekender, which, in the main, tends to be a ‘Nostalgia Northern’ pursuit.

I’ve seen you at venues all over the country Russ, over the years. Few people are as knowledgeable, dedicated and as passionate as you are. You have great taste for all things ‘soulful’ and you know and frequent the places I’m referring to that might be considered more ‘progressive’. I said at the start of the thread, I’ve made a bit of a career of clearing floors to ‘different’ records, but I’m more than happy to live and let live and recognise that not everyone is as up to their neck in ‘Soul’ as some of us might like to be. It’s a broad church and we shouldn’t be at all surprised that some people just want to have ‘fun’ to the soundtrack from the Gods; that is Soul music.

Given these two separate scenes have common Grandparents, it’s important not to enter into a ‘family feud’ of sorts. We all have more in common with each other than we have differences and it’s therefore incongruous to disparage the family from either side.

The ‘Progressive’ scene will just keep on ‘progressing’ just so long as those that are on it ‘want’ to do it.

The ‘Nostalgia’ scene will also just keep on doing what it wants to do. Enjoying the music, the friendships and even creating new memories, in our twilight years.

Often, people cross over from one ‘scene’ to ‘feed’ the other. At my time of life, I like to think I can enjoy it all, regardless, because the MUSIC is important to me and because (even though I might not want to hear it all the time) the Tomangoes, Jimmy Burns and Sam Williams sound every bit as good to me now as they did 40 years ago.

Life is far too short, for Soul fans, or anyone else, to be perturbed by other people’s choices.

We should perhaps be more pragmatic and embrace the differences.

We’ll all be looking in the rear-view mirror before we know it!



Sean

by Sean Hampsey, 20 October 2012 - 04:44 PM.

A year ago to-day Mr Hampsey wrote a great article it's a little long (But Please read it) I think it needs another airing.

 

There are a myriad of offshoots, born out of ‘Northern Soul’ (Crossover, Modern etc.) but we might classify the two main factions as the ‘Progressive Northern’ scene and the ‘Nostalgia Northern' scene.

They are related but they are not the same. They’re probably cousins and certainly not twins. They have the same genes… but not the same jeans… lol.

They are different.

1. ‘Progressive Northern’

The ‘Progressive Northern’ scene is frequented by folks who want to hear, play and discover tracks that are ‘new to them’.

The crowd at these events want to ‘hear something different’ on a regular basis, to keep them stimulated and to ‘keep them coming back for more’ — ‘Just like it was in the old days’… seeking out the next big tune, being true to the ‘ethos’ and ‘Keeping The Faith’.

The DJ’s on this ‘Progressive Northern’ scene tend to play new and more recent discoveries. They are as conscious of the 40+ year history as anyone else- they need to be, to ensure that what they are ‘breaking’ is truly ‘new’ or exclusive - but it is these DJ’s - and those who eagerly attend wherever they play - that keeps that particular scene going. They work hard at it, are dedicated, some might say fanatical about their chosen path. They constantly seek those elusive sounds (some of which actually become popular) and are generally the most passionate people you could ever wish to meet when it comes to talking about the music.

And good luck to ‘em. If you or they have got the energy, mental capacity, knowledge, drive, enthusiasm, resources, lifestyle, contacts and (I hate to say it) finances it’s a noble and enjoyable pursuit.

In this scene, and there are numerous exceptions, many discovered the music in the latter days of Wigan or sometime after it closed its doors. They found ‘Northern Soul’ at such places as Stafford, 100 Club, Rotherham, Bradford, Warrington, Keele and in later years Lifeline, Burnley etc. all venues with a culture of ‘progression’ coupled with something of a ‘siege mentality’ as defenders of a dying faith (remember when the black gloves came out again?).

2. ‘Nostalgia Northern’

The ‘Nostalgia Northern’ scene is a different animal. This particular scene is frequented by people who want to hear and play tracks that are familiar to them, to keep them stimulated and to ‘keep them coming back for more’ — ‘Just like it was in the old days’… reminiscing about their youth, being true to the old tunes and ‘Keeping The Faith’.

They probably left the scene sometime before Wigan closed its doors, missed the 80’s and 90’s, spent the decades, between then and now, growing up, getting married, having kids, living and working to pay the mortgage, getting divorced, being made redundant, retraining for a new career, paying off the Mortgage, remarrying and then rediscovering their youth… at the working men’s club… at the bottom of the road, where on the weekend, they play a bit of ‘Northern Soul’.

They don’t want, or need, to travel around the country each and every weekend in pursuit of the ‘next big thing’ or new discovery. Why should they? Those days are long gone for these folk. Northern Soul (as they always knew it) is right on the doorstep. In many Northern Clubs, the dominoes, bingo and ‘turn’ have been replaced by some chap with a box of records. And these old ‘sounds’ remind our typical male of his youth. He has a few Beers with his mates, he might even shake a leg to ‘Landslide’ or ‘Freddie Chavez’ — the wife likes it too — nowt wrong with a bit o’ Motown — and as he leaves he picks up a flyer for an upcoming Weekender. Fancy that our lass? Sunshine, Fish & Chips & Northern Soul? And the rest is ‘a life based on’ history or ‘instant nostalgia’ as Dave Withers once said!

Nothing new there. Old folk have been looking in the rear-view mirror for thousands of years. But, unlike previous generations, these 50 or 60 something’s won’t have to rely on the British Legion, or grow old alone. Thank God. They can grow old disgracefully if they choose to, at the seaside, two or three times a year, or at any number of events across the north that might take their fancy; enjoying a beer or two, catching up with old faces and making new friends, to incredible music that takes them back a bit, keeps the pulse racing, raises a smile and keeps the heartbeat turned up!

And good luck to ‘em. If they have ‘still’ got the energy, enthusiasm, resources, lifestyle and finances it’s a noble and enjoyable pursuit.

And it sure beats crown green bowling!

As it happens, the ‘Nostalgia Northern’ scene has taken to playing and enjoying more ‘post Wigan’ sounds in recent years. The NS Top 500 has recently been revised to reflect this. Not too very long ago ‘I’m So Happy’ and ‘Home Is Where The Heart Is’ were considered ‘Modern’ by many, whereas now some of these are considered passé, by those more ‘adventurous’ down at the club!

Probably a separate thread entirely, but there's a lot more to this than can be explained in a simple post, on a thread, in a forum about whether a DJ should or shouldn’t risk clearing a dancefloor, by playing something out of the ordinary, but I do tend to think there’s also an element of demographic and regional differences (North and South) involved here.

Up North there are literally tens of thousands of folk who went to Wigan, Samanthas and Cleggy... etc. Let’s face it; Northern Soul hasn’t been an ‘underground’ scene up here for nearly 40 years. That genie flew out of the lamp a very long time ago. Northern Soul was actually ‘a way of life’ for most young people, in the towns and villages of the north. They might not have all been hard-core nighter goers (although many of them certainly were) but your Postman, the village Bobby, the Butcher, the Landlord at the local all bought a copy of Tami Lynn ‘Run Away’ and the Tams ‘Hey Girl Don’t Bother Me’ in the early 70’s followed by a Judy Street, a copy of ‘Out On The Floor’ and a Mike Post Coalition during the Casino years! — I imagine it’s not quite like that south of Watford, where there have always been many alternative entertainment opportunities vying for attention and where ‘Northern Soul’ was and is still seen as an ‘exclusive’ club that has to be ‘travelled’ for.

I know it’s probably a separate subject all on its own, but the reality is that the heritage (Nostalgia) side of things and the ‘legacy’ of the Northern Scene, at its absolute zenith in the 70’s, in the North of England, is still seen as one of the things that many Northerners feel quite proud of. And (even though many got busy doing other things, some 30 odd years ago) just like a prodigal son, it seems somehow more valuable to them now. Middle age brings greater lifestyle choice and ‘Northern Soul’ is something many want to celebrate and enjoy, free of someone else’s ‘rules’ and ‘pressures’, and they might just want to relive a bit of it all over again.

One bloke I spoke to recently said that, since he retired, he and the Mrs now take all their holidays literally ‘on the scene’. There are enough weekenders throughout the year to be able to have 2-3 mini-breaks a year without having to leave the country (but for the more adventurous, there’s plenty going on abroad also).

It’s inevitable that for my generation at least, the trip to Blackpool to ‘see the lights’ will have soon been completely eclipsed by the Northern Soul Weekender, which, in the main, tends to be a ‘Nostalgia Northern’ pursuit.

I’ve seen you at venues all over the country Russ, over the years. Few people are as knowledgeable, dedicated and as passionate as you are. You have great taste for all things ‘soulful’ and you know and frequent the places I’m referring to that might be considered more ‘progressive’. I said at the start of the thread, I’ve made a bit of a career of clearing floors to ‘different’ records, but I’m more than happy to live and let live and recognise that not everyone is as up to their neck in ‘Soul’ as some of us might like to be. It’s a broad church and we shouldn’t be at all surprised that some people just want to have ‘fun’ to the soundtrack from the Gods; that is Soul music.

Given these two separate scenes have common Grandparents, it’s important not to enter into a ‘family feud’ of sorts. We all have more in common with each other than we have differences and it’s therefore incongruous to disparage the family from either side.

The ‘Progressive’ scene will just keep on ‘progressing’ just so long as those that are on it ‘want’ to do it.

The ‘Nostalgia’ scene will also just keep on doing what it wants to do. Enjoying the music, the friendships and even creating new memories, in our twilight years.

Often, people cross over from one ‘scene’ to ‘feed’ the other. At my time of life, I like to think I can enjoy it all, regardless, because the MUSIC is important to me and because (even though I might not want to hear it all the time) the Tomangoes, Jimmy Burns and Sam Williams sound every bit as good to me now as they did 40 years ago.

Life is far too short, for Soul fans, or anyone else, to be perturbed by other people’s choices.

We should perhaps be more pragmatic and embrace the differences.

We’ll all be looking in the rear-view mirror before we know it!

Sean

by Sean Hampsey, 20 October 2012 - 04:44 PM.

very well put sean, trouble is one of those scene's is thriving the other dying on its arse or at least so small as to be pretty much insignifigant to the other. Northern soul is now the nostalgia scene, a complete bastardisation of the scene's origianal ethics, I for one cant help but feel passionate about a bunch of 'divs' taking over the name at least and believing they know what its all about. I understand anyone who passionatly defends what they believe is right, even if they know the outcome is inevitable. Unfortunatly the progressive side of the scene is far from united with various factions within it thus disminishing the little influence it has. The family ties Sean speaks of have been severed forever, both pretty much isolated from one and other in the main, that IMHO is the saddest and real change in the last 5 years. 

Edited October 20, 201311 yr by geeselad

Toad , everyone can just google Northern Soul and get a CD of the old top tunes for £2.99 or less mate , hey I'm not knocking them but it's easy to do

that's not what i mean. Or are they playing just anything?

I choose the progressive scene 

 

I do not want to be part of the nostalgia scene.

 

Richard

Two very different "northern" style scenes why is everyone still going on about this?   Everyone should know by now, we've been talking about it for years and still people 'whine' on and talk about either "handbaggers" or "a little togetherness" and it'll all be alright on the night. Whilst the progressive end of the scene are quite happy to hear most "Oldies" cos that's where they started their musical journey, most of the Oldies crowd only want to hear what they already know and love. Put another way everyone likes the oldies, but not everyone likes the newer stuff.

 

But that said there's nothing wrong about a load of 50 somethings going out and having a potter about to "Band of gold", some Motown and a few sherries on a Saturday night - good luck to them if that's what they want to do.....It's not "killing the scene" and all the other daft stuff I read on here.

 

Russ V. and others, you are on the "rare soul" scene. "Northern Soul" as a term was corrupted many many years ago and has come to mean something different to what you like and believe in. Russfest and his 7,000 "soulies" at Butlins, the endless 'It's a way of life' "tat" on Ebay, Radio 2 frothing at the mouth (how mainstream is that!), £2.99 CDs in Tescos.....In fact all the baggage that travels around with the two words "northern soul", make it a million miles from what originally attracted you to the scene.

 

So please get over it and move on! Once you do it'll be a like a weight lifted from your shoulders...... "Right on brothers and sisters"!  Yeah right on for the darkness!.....

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by Steve G

I'm a nostalgic progressive, and I don't own a handbag.

I like them both so to me its not one or the other they are the same but different and at the end of the day were all humans but on the odd occasion I've seen a few aliens in the early hours of the morning in a dark corner of a venue....

So I get the best of both worlds. How lucky am I :-)

I like them both so to me its not one or the other they are the same but different and at the end of the day were all humans but on the odd occasion I've seen a few aliens in the early hours of the morning in a dark corner of a venue....

So I get the best of both worlds. How lucky am I :-)

 

I am sure you are not alone Paul!

 

Also v different in the south - there have only ever been just enough people to go round!

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by Steve G

...in the 90's....yeah I know....but it still will work today......it was the first big 'surge' of interest from new commers and 'old school' who hadn't been to a doo since the late 70's. They came in droves to Soul Nights as a 'buzz' was going around those venues. My observations were this.....these new folk didn't come for 'music'....nope...they were looking for a Social life. Now...some promoters left them to their interpretation and lack of knowledge on the subject. But...some....myself included....embraced these folk via Soul Nights and 'educated' them whilst entertaining them....by giving Tapes away with 'other' tunes on there that the Promoter/DJ's would like them to listen too and get to like! IT WORKED!!! Giving tapes out every function back in those days was expensive...and hard work/time consuming! I used to copy 100 at a time.....I remember it well....yet it was worth it.

 

I can name many Soulies and a few current DJ's who got 're-plugged in' to the scene...via such methods. If I was promoting today....with technology cheap as chips and simply done....I wouldn't dream of putting a function on without supplying a perhaps 30p 'CD'...to go with the entrance fee...for all in attendance! I remember playing 2 or 3 tunes for say 2 monthly nights with not much reaction.....but after the Anniversary tape had gone out...the next Month...EVERYONE was dancing...AND Singing....cos they knew it!x Simple stuff to 'tie' folk in....and for £30.....u can 'buy' ureself a following....I did!!....oh add to it the 30/40 hours duplicating....photocopying the sleeve after making it with letraset.....etc etc...I earnt that following....I reckon...!!x

 

@@
~

 

LUV
SOOTY
X

Two very different "northern" style scenes why is everyone still going on about this?   Everyone should know by now, we've been talking about it for years and still people 'whine' on and talk about either "handbaggers" or "a little togetherness" and it'll all be alright on the night. Whilst the progressive end of the scene are quite happy to hear most "Oldies" cos that's where they started their musical journey, most of the Oldies crowd only want to hear what they already know and love. Put another way everyone likes the oldies, but not everyone likes the newer stuff.

 

But that said there's nothing wrong about a load of 50 somethings going out and having a potter about to "Band of gold", some Motown and a few sherries on a Saturday night - good luck to them if that's what they want to do.....It's not "killing the scene" and all the other daft stuff I read on here.

 

Russ V. and others, you are on the "rare soul" scene. "Northern Soul" as a term was corrupted many many years ago and has come to mean something different to what you like and believe in. Russfest and his 7,000 "soulies" at Butlins, the endless 'It's a way of life' "tat" on Ebay, Radio 2 frothing at the mouth (how mainstream is that!), £2.99 CDs in Tescos.....In fact all the baggage that travels around with the two words "northern soul", make it a million miles from what originally attracted you to the scene.

 

So please get over it and move on! Once you do it'll be a like a weight lifted from your shoulders...... "Right on brothers and sisters"!  Yeah right on for the darkness!.....

 

I agree Steve, I much prefer the term Rare Soul & always have, only thing that frustrates me, as along with everything else, the phrase 'Rare Soul' has been turned into a kind of insult by those that endeavour to ridicule & dis credit that part of the scene. 

 

Russ

I'm a nostalgic progressive, and I don't own a handbag.

That made me smile on a wet and windy morning...

 

 

Most of us are closer to our bus pass than our teens, plenty choice out there for us all, do it while you can....  I know what i want and i know where to find it, most folk are the same i guess... The topic starter goes walks into this handbag joint looking for something real, i ask why???? with a thought for 5 seconds and a sniff around you should be able to detect what it is and go find your needs elsewhere... You can't hold this experience up as much really....

 

 Its like me walking into Greggs looking to buy a quality Rump Beef sandwhich, it aint gonna happen.. ...

 

Plenty choice out there for all tastes if you know your food..

 

Peace x

 

ps.... I have been putting on rare soul events for many moons in clubs/ bars round Manchester, always looking to play something a little more progressive, mix it up and away from the same old.... I was called a handbagger in the street by this guy who only went to very much oldies all niters and danced to the same tunes he danced to in his teens at Wigan....

 

Its a funny old game.....

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by little-stevie

How funny and ironic.....just popped in to see what was being said and up pops an ad on the screen for Tony Blackburn's "Soul classics"...

It hasn't always been like that though, has it? you used to have to bolt things down way back when...

Ok three of you have put me right though I was referring to my experience over the last eight years or so,perhaps I've been wearing rose tinted specs but I'm always open to being proved wrong which it seems I was.

Nobody's taking over anything, and just like everything else, this has happened before. Back in the 70s with all the publicity, TV shows etc, a load of people went to check out this northern soul stuff at whatever 'disco' was playing it - a lot of them were dunken knobheads and handbaggers who didnt have a clue and fancied this taking drugs and staying out all night thing..... most of them disappeared without a trace, some of them stayed, and are still going out today... in 10 years time (if there's any of us left), we'll be talking about 'those times when the scene was full of handbaggers' all over again...

Ok three of you have put me right though I was referring to my experience over the last eight years or so,perhaps I've been wearing rose tinted specs but I'm always open to being proved wrong which it seems I was.

 

Not wishing to put you right mate, it was just an observation on how things have changed on that front, evidenty for the better.

Many of the tea-leaves that once frequented venues probably wouldn't consider a 21st allnighter worth the trouble. It was a great environment for the opportunist -  had my beloved leather trenchcoat stolen - and of course records once or twice. Carelessness on my part, but irking all the same.  

At Parr Hall on Saturday, Lindylou 18 and I, and a poor bloke dancing beautifully to some great tunes, were all bowled out of the way by this fat arsed girl in glittery leggings shaking her stuff across the entire dance floor, oblivious to knocking everyone out of the way cos she was drunk and had no shoes on, and her pissed up fella was loving seeing her huge trumper shimmying everyone out of the way! he is damn lucky that we're all so pleasant on the scene and that we only air our moans and groans on here.

All great, new people, young people getting onto the scene, and I don't care if they like, oldies, rare, progressive whatever, just think they should have a little respect for the places, the dancers, the etiquette of no drinks on the dancefloor, no barging into people with your disco dancing, no taking the piss openly. It's just manners.

No wonder people moan and groan on here about things, it's pent up violence coming out in words

At Parr Hall on Saturday, Lindylou 18 and I, and a poor bloke dancing beautifully to some great tunes, were all bowled out of the way by this fat arsed girl in glittery leggings shaking her stuff across the entire dance floor, oblivious to knocking everyone out of the way cos she was drunk and had no shoes on, and her pissed up fella was loving seeing her huge trumper shimmying everyone out of the way! he is damn lucky that we're all so pleasant on the scene and that we only air our moans and groans on here.

I don't think I'd have been as pleasant as you nor waited till I got home to say summat ;)

If I'd have been the promoter they would have been warned then ejected if they carried on.

Ok three of you have put me right though I was referring to my experience over the last eight years or so,perhaps I've been wearing rose tinted specs but I'm always open to being proved wrong which it seems I was.

 

I knew what you meant - There is defo a 'trust' bond between most, and as always, there's bound to be an exception to the (unwritten) rule.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

I don't think I'd have been as pleasant as you nor waited till I got home to say summat ;)

If I'd have been the promoter they would have been warned then ejected if they carried on.

Next time, the lump of lard gets it!!

I don't think I'd have been as pleasant as you nor waited till I got home to say summat ;)

If I'd have been the promoter they would have been warned then ejected if they carried on.

 

....and I would have been 'right behind you' Chalky  

 

Len  

Nobody's taking over anything, and just like everything else, this has happened before. Back in the 70s with all the publicity, TV shows etc, a load of people went to check out this northern soul stuff at whatever 'disco' was playing it - a lot of them were dunken knobheads and handbaggers who didnt have a clue and fancied this taking drugs and staying out all night thing..... most of them disappeared without a trace, some of them stayed, and are still going out today... in 10 years time (if there's any of us left), we'll be talking about 'those times when the scene was full of handbaggers' all over again...

 

Yea then turned up 20 years later to f*ck it up again   ***Many a true word said in jest....lol 

 

Russ

I agree Steve, I much prefer the term Rare Soul & always have, only thing that frustrates me, as along with everything else, the phrase 'Rare Soul' has been turned into a kind of insult by those that endeavour to ridicule & dis credit that part of the scene. 

 

Russ

Its rare for a reason !!! Cos its shit !!! Sorry can't talk got to go and dance to the Del Larks, Salvador's, magnetics, Eddie Parker, Tomangoes, Frank Wilson etc etc etc ......

Now where me friggin hand bag gone I'm sure I put it down there ???

Its rare for a reason !!! Cos its shit !!! Sorry can't talk got to go and dance to the Del Larks, Salvador's, magnetics, Eddie Parker, Tomangoes, Frank Wilson etc etc etc ......

Now where me friggin hand bag gone I'm sure I put it down there ???

Bearsy ,you're wrong ,but you're a young man    ,when folks were listening to the Beatles and Stones, some of us old school types were listening to these great and yes rare tunes, bombed off our heads and dancing our flippin head off to some of them tunes ,fantastic days ,me an me buddies late night shopping at the Chemist. went every where in nicked motors ,got locked up for a few years ,but I don't regret it ,it was what we did back then  and I loved it ,well most of it  

 

Bazza     

Bearsy ,you're wrong ,but you're a young man    ,when folks were listening to the Beatles and Stones, some of us old school types were listening to these great and yes rare tunes, bombed off our heads and dancing our flippin head off to some of them tunes ,fantastic days ,me an me buddies late night shopping at the Chemist. went every where in nicked motors ,got locked up for a few years ,but I don't regret it ,it was what we did back then  and I loved it ,well most of it  

 

Bazza  

Bazza that's a normal weekend for me now lol. Hope your well matey :-)

....and I would have been 'right behind you' Chalky  

 

Len  

I knew I could count on you Len

I don't think I'd have been as pleasant as you nor waited till I got home to say summat ;)

If I'd have been the promoter they would have been warned then ejected if they carried on.

Exactly. I've seen only one incident like this at Lifeline, some drunken Knobber bothering people on the floor. Mick H volleyed him out of the building and send him to bed with no supper quick sharp.

Promoters should be on this, that is unless they value the revenue brought in by these kind of punters.

are not the total value of our recorded vinyl based on handbaggers?

I went to the venue Nsoulxx mentioned a few months ago and I don't think the door staff or promoters are watching what's going on at all. One guy repeatedly pestered her following her around all over the place. When I suggested we tell the security staff I was told not to by the people we were sitting with as he "didn't mean any harm...he does it all the time...don't want to upset him". I didn't feel comfortable at all,felt more like a dodgy nightclub. Pisspots all over the dancefloor too...and not just me before anybody(Steve) says! Went to Barry's night at the bar over the road later and it was a 100 times better!

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by Reg

Just to put the record straight on Parr Hall. It's bloody brilliant!!!!  one drunken man one time, and one silly woman another is nothing. Was just saying cos of her stupid dancing. I love Parr Hall, the venue is fantastic. The soulies are great, the music was great, The DJ's are great, and do you know, the staff were really really friendly. the girl behind the snack bar complimenting me on the Fred Perry. The staff on the door dancing to the music. Honestly it is a brilliant place. everywhere has a drunk or two and plenty of places have letches. After all, That is life.

 

Long live Parr Hall

I don't think any of us have a problem with those venue's that set out to just be your A typical 'Motown & Classic Soul' type nights aimed at the Social Crowd. The problem is many of the longer running 'Northern' nights which were never exactly 'Rare', BUT would at least try and introduce their punters to something a little different, have now been forced to abandon this policy in favour of a VERY rigid Oldies playlist for fear that their 'Handbag' contingent will just disappear off to one of the countless other venues offering the 'Same Old'...

 

Like it or not the handbag/fancy dress scene is pretty much THE  scene at present!.

spot on!

Must have been totally different to when we went the other time then. They actually played Interplay! And the idiot screens telling you what record's playing....like I don't know who sings Right Track...Whatever turns you on ,horses for courses etc. Actually spoilt the nice memories of the niters there. For me anyway.

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by Reg

It was different reg. Much better this time, great atmosphere, some really good sets. Nowhere will ever be as good as the memories of when we were young. It's why people who went to Wigan go on about that, because it was their first experiences of it all, but there's no point comparing it to then otherwise we'll live a life of being forever disappointed and fed up.

I really enjoyed it and I couldn't stop smiling cos it's a great venue. Even big ass couldn't spoil it.

They have the screens at Stoke and other places and they're great for advertising venues, as well as showing what's coming up next. Stopped me missing out on favourites by going to the loo as always seems to happen!!