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Pete S

Imperial C's Bootlegged?

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describing bootlegs as 2nd issues is a term ive noticed most sellers /dealers use nowadays makes it all sound legit :D

Its so items don't get kicked off eBay - if you were to put that it is a bootleg in the description it gets removed

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Might be a vinyl carvers but I don't think they do them for less than £15

makes you wonder if they were pressed with the x on label or if it has been done individually...to make the 45...lets say more individual :D Got a John & The Weirdest boot with X on label and even a DJ name written all over the label...and no, its not mine (the name that is) wink.gif

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describing bootlegs as 2nd issues is a term ive noticed most sellers /dealers use nowadays makes it all sound legit :D

I agree Tony this is wrong and although its a way of getting round ebay rules its wrong and shouldn't be done.

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Guest Netspeaky

Anybody know the seller?

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Anybody know the seller?

chatahootchie bloke on there loads with northern. Incidentally hasn't Ernie Washington been booted on a look a like n'all?

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Are you sure it wasn't reissued officialy by Jamie Guyden around 2003 to coincide with the Northern Side of Philly Soul CD ? There were a few others 'Benny Sigler' & that unissued 'Moses Smith' track that we discused on here for instance.

If it had we'd have seen one I think...seen loads of Moses Smiths'

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Guest Tommy

I'm Tommy Potts, and this guy is NOT me. I'm chattahoochee3 on Ebay.

:yes:

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I hate to piss anyone off. But that looks like an original to me. But it' hard to be sure as the scan is tough to see detail.

Is it possible, he was told by another USA collector/dealer that it was a second press so listed it like that.

It certainly wouldn't have been the first time. I know when I've had rare Rockabilly or nice doo wop and I've been told on a few occasions "it's a repro" only to discover it's the real-deal.

Someone may have go abargain. It's a pitty I can't see the vinyl very well...but the labels look spot-on.

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PS

I can see the dead wax width, so if I go get my copy i'll let you know if they are the same. Hold on, I'll be back.

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Not to worry it's some sorta repro, the deadwax widths are totally different to the original i've checked.

Frank at Jamie often does reissues from his catalogue, but this offering compared to my copy is certainly not made from the same masterplates.

Maybe the guy who won it could tell us what he has when he gets it?

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Are you sure it wasn't reissued officialy by Jamie Guyden around 2003 to coincide with the Northern Side of Philly Soul CD ? There were a few others 'Benny Sigler' & that unissued 'Moses Smith' track that we discused on here for instance.

Almost certainly not, Frank offers me vinyl from time to time, he's never mentioned this title as a repro. Last dealt with him 6 months back when he found 45s he didn't know he had. I think if the Imperial C's was available as a repro he would have mentioned it.

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No he is chattahoochie3 and he doesn't live in Bolton (he has taste)

:wicked: but he is a Fred Dibnah fan !!

Now let me think, shall I live in Bolton :yes: or California ?

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a definite boot....seller has two people operating the account natalie dempsey and nick??

whats wrong with reissues??? as a description surely thats what they are..just wish they wouldnt use look a like labels..

must get johns boot book :thumbup:

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a definite boot....seller has two people operating the account natalie dempsey and nick??

whats wrong with reissues??? as a description surely thats what they are..just wish they wouldnt use look a like labels..

must get johns boot book :thumbup:

A boot is an illegal copy of a record or recording that is released without the consent on the owner of the rights to the work.

A re-issue is the legitimate issue of a record by the owmer of the rights subsequent to the first issue.

Calling a boot a re-issue is misleading and does not stop it being a bootleg.

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I hate to piss anyone off. But that looks like an original to me. But it' hard to be sure as the scan is tough to see detail.

Is it possible, he was told by another USA collector/dealer that it was a second press so listed it like that.

It certainly wouldn't have been the first time. I know when I've had rare Rockabilly or nice doo wop and I've been told on a few occasions "it's a repro" only to discover it's the real-deal.

Someone may have go abargain. It's a pitty I can't see the vinyl very well...but the labels look spot-on.

:thumbup: I bet that had a few choking on their coffee this morning !

Quick question JM, I guess they still have all the master tapes for all their releases & so could reissue the Imperial C's amongst others, so what amount would they have to sell for it to be financially viable ?

Edited by Bogue

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A boot is an illegal copy of a record or recording that is released without the consent on the owner of the rights to the work.

A re-issue is the legitimate issue of a record by the owmer of the rights subsequent to the first issue.

Calling a boot a re-issue is misleading and does not stop it being a bootleg.

how about an owner who's rights have lapsed? most contracts are for 25 years or the label owner whos sold his rights to a larger label say sony or warners...not wishing to be pedantic but there are many scenarios ...

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A boot is an illegal copy of a record or recording that is released without the consent on the owner of the rights to the work.

A re-issue is the legitimate issue of a record by the owmer of the rights subsequent to the first issue.

Calling a boot a re-issue is misleading and does not stop it being a bootleg.

how about an owner who's rights have lapsed? most contracts are for 25 years or the label owner whos sold his rights to a larger label say sony or warners...not wishing to be pedantic but there are many scenarios ...

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:thumbup: I bet that had a few choking on their coffee this morning !

Quick question JM, I guess they still have all the master tapes for all their releases & so could reissue the Imperial C's amongst others, so what amount would they have to sell for it to be financially viable ?

Frank still has all the Arctic, Phila Soul etc. masters but doesn't seem that interested in repressing unless he can the order warrrants the work involved. The Imperial C's would not sell in huge quantities. I wouldn't expect to sell more than 200 to 300 myself..and that over a long period. 300 is a small run and the last time i enquired concerning an Arctic title the figures didn't work for either of us. Best that way really, The Imperial C's should, i feel, should remain a rare record, it is a highly prized collectors piece, not a 45 to repress as general demand would be low.

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hey chaps its not the end of the world its whats in the groove that counts

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how about an owner who's rights have lapsed? most contracts are for 25 years or the label owner whos sold his rights to a larger label say sony or warners...not wishing to be pedantic but there are many scenarios ...

Don't mix up contracts and copywrite. Usually recorded material copywrite persists for 50 years. If someone sells the rights to a given recording there are usually conditions and even if not then a bootlegger infringes the rights of the new owner. That's not to mention the falsification of logos (which someone owns the rights to) and designs which are evident in this case and the misrepresentation that is obviously in breach of TDA.

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chatahootchie bloke on there loads with northern. Incidentally hasn't Ernie Washington been booted on a look a like n'all?

Be interested to know if anyone else has heard anything on this. And whether they're at all connected.

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Bootlegs Bootlegs Bootlegs

A shame really - It's obviously worth it to some to press/carve copies up illegally rather than the real owners/license owners etc like Jm outlined re. Jamie/Guyden

Kell Osbourne - Lonely Boy Song

Isonics - Sugar

Ultimates - Girl I've Been Trying

Eddie Hughes - Soul Searcher

Brand New Faces - Brand New Faces

ALL Blank 1-Siders - To my knowledge none legit either - Oh and a cracker here - Unique Blend 'Yes I'm Love ' Obviously a recent legitimate re-press from ACE/KENT isn't good enough!

Best

Rich

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Guest Tommy

Now let me think, shall I live in Bolton unsure.gif or California ?

:lol: , No sh*t. Still, the decision could have been more difficult.

Now, where do i want to live? Dundee ? or California ? :lol:

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Should the issue here be to question and challenge the source of where these things are being made? i.e. these 'one off' carver places as they seem to pretty much cut anything if people are prepared to pay for it without questioning the ownership or legal stand point, as well as the people that actually know it is wrong in the first place who seem to constantly abuse the ethics behind this.

The fact is if you don't have direct permission or ownership of a track and it's fully paid up and above board then it's simply wrong to produce even a one off copy.

To challenge or question Ebay for allowing these type of records to be listed for sale if you can call them records? it seems is a total waste of time as they can't be bothered to take action or withdraw these items from sale as we have seen this type of stuff being sold on there time and time again and nothing is done to stop it!

Who wants these? who buys them? and why? there are both the issued version of 'Someone Tell Her' and the alt take on a legit Philly CD, so does this not surfice as a legit way to enjoy the tune/s? since selling my demo back is 1991/92 which was a big regret i was made up when the CD came out as i was able to enjoy the tune once again at home, it did'nt even enter my head to suddenly think oh goody now i can get one cut off the CD and play it out, respect the collectors and DJ's too much who have the real deal to do that and far too much respect to the legal and moral aspects of this issue, i suggest the only way to stamp out this is not to subscribe to this, simply if there is no market for this then i would like to think that it will stop? remember your not buying the Imperial C's here your buying a fake both cheating the group and yourself.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

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I can see the dead wax width, so if I go get my copy i'll let you know if they are the same. Hold on, I'll be back.

I checked last night at home with my copy and the originals should have a LW pressed into the dead wax (on my copy placed at about two o`clock).

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Those old Belgian boys have some funny stuff ..

Just noticed that a lot of "new" (?) bootlegs are coming (again) from Belgium. I nearly bid on the recent Freedie Houston and Sparkles bootlegs up on ebay which must have been newly made as they look so close to an original on first view. Also there are currently bootelgs of Patrinell Staten being offered which I do believe must be newly made...up comes the question where the people who made these have had access to the tunes and labels as to my knowledge the number of people having this record is whith Butch, Arthur Fenn, me and approx. two more people very limited ??

Bootleggers and people who buy these sort of things to play out loud at a venue..."hang them high" is what I say. I sold some serious rare records to finance my lastest release on Hip City Soul Club Records and will (again) be very unlikely to get the money back, which is okay as long as it is fun to do and the artist gets his fair piece of the cake (which he is in this case) but when you have these kinda bootleggers making a nice benefit it really pisses you off.

Marc

Edited by Marc Forrest

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Should the issue here be to question and challenge the source of where these things are being made? i.e. these 'one off' carver places as they seem to pretty much cut anything if people are prepared to pay for it without questioning the ownership or legal stand point, as well as the people that actually know it is wrong in the first place who seem to constantly abuse the ethics behind this.

The fact is if you don't have direct permission or ownership of a track and it's fully paid up and above board then it's simply wrong to produce even a one off copy.

To challenge or question Ebay for allowing these type of records to be listed for sale if you can call them records? it seems is a total waste of time as they can't be bothered to take action or withdraw these items from sale as we have seen this type of stuff being sold on there time and time again and nothing is done to stop it!

Who wants these? who buys them? and why? there are both the issued version of 'Someone Tell Her' and the alt take on a legit Philly CD, so does this not surfice as a legit way to enjoy the tune/s? since selling my demo back is 1991/92 which was a big regret i was made up when the CD came out as i was able to enjoy the tune once again at home, it did'nt even enter my head to suddenly think oh goody now i can get one cut off the CD and play it out, respect the collectors and DJ's too much who have the real deal to do that and far too much respect to the legal and moral aspects of this issue, i suggest the only way to stamp out this is not to subscribe to this, simply if there is no market for this then i would like to think that it will stop? remember your not buying the Imperial C's here your buying a fake both cheating the group and yourself.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

You cant blame carvers etc Mark,i know at least one old youth who have his own machine and the said youth as just moved up north and as tried to sell me simular discs before,i`m not saying tho`,just stikcin`up for carvers,most folk who use em`dont sell em`or try to sell em`as original or second pressings.

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You cant blame carvers etc Mark,i know at least one old youth who have his own machine and the said youth as just moved up north and as tried to sell me simular discs before,i`m not saying tho`,just stikcin`up for carvers,most folk who use em`dont sell em`or try to sell em`as original or second pressings.

can I check this then ?

*********************************

I've got a copy that is white sided / yellow sided .

has a cross on the ' someone tell her ' side , but this is on the right side [ looks the same as the one on the JM rarest of the rare site ]

dead wax is much smaller than that appears on the scan shown at the top of the page [ at least half as small ]

stamped initials L W are in the dead wax , but on mine at about ' 25-30 mins past '

*************************************

This real ?

Many thanks .

ricticman

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unsure.gif Edited by ken

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can I check this then ?

*********************************

I've got a copy that is white sided / yellow sided .

has a cross on the ' someone tell her ' side , but this is on the right side [ looks the same as the one on the JM rarest of the rare site ]

dead wax is much smaller than that appears on the scan shown at the top of the page [ at least half as small ]

stamped initials L W are in the dead wax , but on mine at about ' 25-30 mins past '

*************************************

This real ?

Many thanks .

ricticman

No it's a fake, you should sell it to me for £10 whistling.gif

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