Channel 4 Clubbing Changed The World

[Seano]

Thought it could be worth a look. It did have a brief nod to the soul scene with clips of Wigan, but of course that wasn't the focus. I was disappointed to see it was yet another top 40 moments with various pundits, as that hadn't seemed obvious from the trailers.

Lots of quotes from people where I couldn't help thinking "but it was like that on the Northern scene", or "that happened with the Mods" and all the stuff about it changing the world, come on, get a grip! Yes it clearly influenced things in various ways, but there's a massive part of the world beyond this and we all pick up tiny or significant influences from what we come across and even World Wars don't draw the entire world in, let's get some perspective here.

Just finish a negative slant, sorry about that, if you're watching Grandmaster Flash now on the all nighter, - "Stay with me UK"!

[Paul Shirley]

according to them it all started with disco and the drug that changed the dance scene was mdma er? wrong on both counts i would say

Edited August 24, 2012 by steptoe

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yep. I was disappointed. As with many of these shows, I thought it gave a totally disjointed account of what I remember.

As an example, those guys who said that it was embarassing to be a DJ before 1985 are just stupid. I have no idea what they were talking about. They obviously weren't around in the 60's and 70's.

And the idea that Ibiza 'started' when Paul Oakenfold, Danny Rampling, Nicky Holloway and Johnny Walker went there in '87 is ridiculous. They were at least 20 years too late to the party. Ibiza has been rocking since the mid 60's. I heard the best mixing I've ever heard in Pacha in 1976 when I was 21 so the so-called Balaeric scene was no mystery to me.

The fact that 4 mates went on holiday to Ibiza and witnessed something for the first time doesn't make it definitive. I give 'em credit for bringing that vibe to London in the late 80's but it's not like it was a mystery before then.

I'm not knocked out with the live deejaying either. No live dancefloor? Just a deejay spinning to a camera crew. Boring. It'll be interesting to see what audience figures they get.......

Ian D

[Northern Soul Uk]

I agree!

They are about 20 years too late if they are talking about the start of the underground dance music scene in the UK.

Might have been a better idea to start from now, and work backwards.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Steve Luigi

[Mark Bicknell]

A drug at number one says it all really as with pretty much all club culture the quality of drugs often make the difference or so it seems.

Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Paul]

Fairly interesting in places but generally annoying and disappointing, not something I'd ever watch again.

As usual, these things are full of cliches and tend to feature many of the same old self-important characters who take far too much credit for anything which evolved and anything which was discovered, copied, borrowed or stolen.

I realise the emphasis was on clubbing and drugs as a culture more than the actual music but I was amazed that so many different genres were mentioned (from house and rave to techno and hardcore via electronica, jungle and trance to name a few) but there wasn't a single mention of reggae or the dub attitude which had such a huge influence on the way much of dance music is recorded and mixed. It was as if reggae music and reggae clubs had never existed.

And the brief obligatory references to northern soul were a bit odd, especially when Terry Farley summed it up by saying: "it sounds good when you're on drugs".

The importance of drugs was overstated to the point where the music was secondary at times. In fact, drugs was the number one influence. One typical overblown comment was "the world you live in now has been shaped by ecstasy". It totally overlooks the fact that thousands of people went clubbing before ecstasy was popular and a lot of people went clubbing without ever taking ecstasy.

Even the main claims about how clubbing changed the world and how clubbing has been the most significant British cultural export of the last thirty years is also just a bit over the top because it suggests that clubbing is a British thing which all other countries have copied.

I'd much rather listen to the music than listen to a bunch of people trying to take credit for it.

Paul

[Stubbsy]

Whilst factually it was a little far fetched and self-indulgent, I actually quite enjoyed it. It was nice for a change, compared to the usual crap served up by tv, to sit and watch a programme with a couple of hours of soul influenced music. I accepted it as being light entertainment.

It wasn't really a history of clubbing was it though, more a top 40 build up type thing. I thought it concentrated too heavily on the influence of the house scene and the 80's. Clubbing, as we know it, actually started back in the 6t's but the nearest they got to that was a brief nod to The Casino?

Is anyone ever going to make a TV programme, or film, which gives an accurate portrayal of how the soul scene is/was?

Edited August 25, 2012 by Stubbsy

[Guest Nick Harrison]

I'm very sure the clubbing normal masses will accept the opening documentary as very factually correct. Like many on here we will reflect and judge this as mis represented and actually a very fragmented inaccurate account, which I find rather blessing.

Erick Morillo did capture a very credited 1998 influenced world wide club set during his hourly House Party session. Which was very representative.

Thanks.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

according to them it all started with disco and the drug that changed the dance scene was mdma er? wrong on both counts i would say

They are correct and I agree with this when you keep it seriously within the context of CLUB CULTURE, it remains true and is still very in evidence today, both within the musically influenced styles or pressed tablet form.

Try not to lose site of the fact that this programme was about CLUB CULTURE AND DANCE MUSIC !!!!!

The Northern Soul scene was and is still seriously deeply rooted in dance halls, ballrooms and historical working class establishments. It had no place in night clubs.

In terms of finance "only" - rather worthless when compared to the involved million pounds within the club dance music industry.

Thanks.

Nick H.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Nick Harrison

[Daved]

I thought it was quite entertaining for Friday night tv. Yes, there were some inaccuracies and daft comments but I was a teenager in the mid - late 80s when a lot of the programme was based so it resonated with me. Steve "Silk" Hurley, crap videos, Marshall Jefferson (he's a scream!) and Inner City (Big Fun is still brilliant!).

Edited August 25, 2012 by daved

[Paul Shirley]

They are correct and I agree with this when you keep it seriously within the context of CLUB CULTURE, it remains true and is still very in evidence today, both within the musically influenced styles or pressed tablet form.

Try not to lose site of the fact that this programme was about CLUB CULTURE AND DANCE MUSIC !!!!!

The Northern Soul scene was and is still seriously deeply rooted in dance halls, ballrooms and historical working class establishments. It had no place in night clubs.

In terms of finance "only" - rather worthless when compared to the involved million pounds within the club dance music industry.

Thanks.

Nick H.

eh? the dance scene that became northern did in fact start in night clubs and there was defo a club culture since the late 60s as already mentiond in a post further up and it wasnt in any old working mens clubs or dance halls either what do you think went on at the wheel then?

there were clubs springing up all over the place open all night unlicensed hence the term underground , what do you think they did there play darts and dominoes or somthing ? how do you think amphetamine became so popular

Edited August 26, 2012 by steptoe

[Soulman]

Quite liked it myself compared to the usual drivel on Friday night TV. What you have to remember though is that possibly two thirds of what was said ended up on the cutting room floor. Maybe, just maybe, someone could have said things that would have had us all nodding in agreement and saying "yes, finally someone got it right". All it takes is some dick splash in the editing department to make the whole thing.... well, just a hash job... again.

Steve

[Paul Shirley]

I'm very sure the clubbing normal masses will accept the opening documentary as very factually correct. Like many on here we will reflect and judge this as mis represented and actually a very fragmented inaccurate account, which I find rather blessing.

Erick Morillo did capture a very credited 1998 influenced world wide club set during his hourly House Party session. Which was very representative.

Thanks.

i'm also very sure the clubbing normal masses of the late 60s will not accept this documentary as being anything like factual. as it didnt include a whole generation that had started a dance club culture that might not have been as accepted and as big as todays or the 80s scene .but very much a pretty similar scene complete with similar drugs .

btw i did like and enjoy a lot of the rave scene and house .i visited many of the clubs that were mentiond in the programme ...loved those nights and enjoyed some of the programme as well ,

Edited August 26, 2012 by steptoe

[Saxafone]

Whilst factually it was a little far fetched and self-indulgent, I actually quite enjoyed it.

John, I imagine you danced round the garden to most of the tracks played which are also no doubt in your "Modern" box ! ;-)

The Hit Man and Her, the perfect antidote when it was on telly to suppress any urge to go "clubbing".

Watched for half an hour, heard the "it sounded good on drugs" structured hypothesis about northern Soul and then the Kraftwerk bilge. Put on some proper sounds and had an all nighter !

Taff

Edited August 25, 2012 by Saxafone

[Northern Soul Uk]

When I had a break from Northern, like many of us did, I got into the House/Rave scene big style and actually DJd it for a good length of time, and still do a bit.

I was amazed to be honest at how similar the Rave scene in particular was to the Northern scene. Traveling miles to the club you liked the best, taking drugs, dancing all night, and very loved up.

I used to say to them, I have seen all this before in the 70s, but they couldn't get to grips with it until I explained the Northern scene of which most of them were too young to remember.

There are a lot of people that used to and still are into Northern that got into the dance scene and vice versa.

What REALLY pee's me off, is that whenever there is a documentary made about the Dance scene in the UK, it always seems to concentrate on the South and Manchester, and Leeds never gets a mention. Leeds was responsible for many household club names such as 'Back2Basics, Hard Times, Orbit, Ark, Leeds Warehouse, Kaos, Soak and the 'Leeds Gallery' where I was resident DJ/Promoter for 9 years.

I just wish that the programmers would start to see that it was not all about the South and Hacienda, and look a little further with their research.

Eric Morillo was good though

Edited August 25, 2012 by Steve Luigi

[Ian Dewhirst]

i'm also very sure the clubbing normal masses of the late 60s will not accept this documentary as being anything like factual as it didnt include a whole generation that had started a dance club culture that might not have been as accepted and as big as todays or the 80s scene but very mutch a pretty similar scene complete with similar drugs .

in all not very representative

They're no doubt aiming at a younger demographic and the researchers probably didn't know any better. The term discotheque has been around since the 1940's, Paris and Rome had the best discotheques with twin turntables and good sound systems throughout the 50's, the first 'superstar' DJ in the UK was probably Emperor Rosko who could pull 2000 people on a Thursday night in Brighton in the late 60's playing dance music and New York and Ibiza had the best clubs in the 70's with phenomenal crowds and plenty of culture.

Personally speaking, I consider the late 80's and all the 90's to be the period when club culture was at it's worst LOL! That's when it all started becoming very bland to me and the music became terrible. But hey, I'm old.......

Ian D

[Soulman]

When I had a break from Northern, like many of us did, I got into the House/Rave scene big style and actually DJd it for a good length of time, and still do a bit.

I was amazed to be honest at how similar the Rave scene in particular was to the Northern scene. Traveling miles to the club you liked the best, taking drugs, dancing all night, and very loved up.

I used to say to them, I have seen all this before in the 70s, but they couldn't get to grips with it until I explained the Northern scene of which most of them were too young to remember.

There are a lot of people that used to and still are into Northern that got into the dance scene and vice versa.

What REALLY pee's me off, is that whenever there is a documentary made about the Dance scene in the UK, it always seems to concentrate on the South and Manchester, and Leeds never gets a mention. Leeds was responsible for many household club nights such as 'Back2Basics, Hard Times, Orbit, Ark, Leeds Warehouse, Kaos, Soak and the 'Leeds Gallery' where I was resident DJ/Promoter for 9 years.

I just wish that the programmers would start to see that it was not all about the South and Hacienda, and look a little further with their research.

Eric Morillo was good though

Leeds..... now I think I've heard of that place. I also believe they had a football team once

Steve

[Spacehopper]

only saw the last half hour or so enjoyable but predictable really especially if they only made a little mention of northern earlier...well i suppose MDMA did change the world for a bit as far as football violence goes anyway....i was still doing the scooter rallies in the late 80s when it all started but a lot of mates were doing the football and liked a fight and can still remember hearing about some of them apparently dancing with no shirts on instead of kicking off and searching for the raves at away games....shocked as id never seen some of em dance even when drunk!...now theres a lot more cheap coke and booze and what do ya know footy violence on the increase...even if its not reported so much

agree the 'live' djing with no crowd...WTF?...turned over pretty quick

[Soulman]

They're no doubt aiming at a younger demographic and the researchers probably didn't know any better. The term discotheque has been around since the 1940's, Paris and Rome had the best discotheques with twin turntables and good sound systems throughout the 50's, the first 'superstar' DJ in the UK was probably Emperor Rosko who could pull 2000 people on a Thursday night in Brighton in the late 60's playing dance music and New York and Ibiza had the best clubs in the 70's with phenomenal crowds and plenty of culture.

Personally speaking, I consider the late 80's and all the 90's to be the period when club culture was at it's worst LOL! That's when it all started becoming very bland to me and the music became terrible. But hey, I'm old.......

Ian D

I've always had a problem with this "Jimmy Saville invented the twin turntable disco" thingy as per suggested on the documentary. I actually believe it was a chap called Ron Diggins from Boston. He was around quite a while before Saville. Anybody from that area know any more details?

Steve

[Northern Soul Uk]

Leeds..... now I think I've heard of that place. I also believe they had a football team once

Steve

Yes, but that was a LONG time ago! Edited August 25, 2012 by Steve Luigi

[Ian Dewhirst]

When I had a break from Northern, like many of us did, I got into the House/Rave scene big style and actually DJd it for a good length of time, and still do a bit.

I was amazed to be honest at how similar the Rave scene in particular was to the Northern scene. Traveling miles to the club you liked the best, taking drugs, dancing all night, and very loved up.

I used to say to them, I have seen all this before in the 70s, but they couldn't get to grips with it until I explained the Northern scene of which most of them were too young to remember.

Yep, me too Steve. I spent quite a bit of time haring around the country from one rave to another in the late 80's and early 90's and thought exactly the same thing - fast music, all-nighters, drugs aplenty and a collective togetherness.

Are you off to see Louie Vega @ the Warehouse tonight? That's where I'd be if I was up there......

Ian D

[Northern Soul Uk]

Yep, me too Steve. I spent quite a bit of time haring around the country from one rave to another in the late 80's and early 90's and thought exactly the same thing - fast music, all-nighters, drugs aplenty and a collective togetherness.

Are you off to see Louie Vega @ the Warehouse tonight? That's where I'd be if I was up there......

Ian D

I would but I am DJing in York tonight, Rave would you believe. But I have DJd with Louie Vega a couple of times and seen him play numerous times. He is amazing! and if I wasn't working I would be there in a breath!

[Ian Dewhirst]

I've always had a problem with this "Jimmy Saville invented the twin turntable disco" thingy as per suggested on the documentary. I actually believe it was a chap called Ron Diggins from Boston. He was around quite a while before Saville. Anybody from that area know any more details?

Steve

He did according to my research Steve. I know Jimmy Saville invented double-deck deejaying is a tough one to swallow but he was an enterprising guy so it makes perfect sense - he started the twin decks thing during world war 2 apparently....

He used to come down to a club I deejayed at called the In-Time in Leeds in the late 70's - another basement discotheque LOL.....

Ian D

[Spacehopper]

yeah all about london and manchester...when i moved to bristol in mid 90s a lot of people i knew here were doing the techno/hard house raves and clubs and it was mental....wednesday through to sunday every friday and saturday had a choice of 3 or 4 venues with top djs...full pubs with djs...onto club..onto...free parties all over in bristol warehouses or somerset fields and barns!...under the severn bridge...and then back to the pub and do

it all again....no mention of roni size etc either...very early jungle /drum and bass when he was leviticus ..straight outa bristol!

[Ian Dewhirst]

I would but I am DJing in York tonight, Rave would you believe. But I have DJd with Louie Vega a couple of times and seen him play numerous times. He is amazing! and if I wasn't working I would be there in a breath!

And I'm playing a 70's/80's type set in Southend tonight so at least I'm playing something decent!

Ian D

[Northern Soul Uk]

And I'm playing a 70's/80's type set in Southend tonight so at least I'm playing something decent!

Ian D

OOOH!! Bitchy! I can't complain about playing Rave, it's not done bad for me!

Ian you might want to tune in to https://www.cowbellradio.co.uk/ on Tuesday September 4th at 7pm.

I have been asked to do a 2 hour DJ/Interview show about what got me into the music and the tunes that

made/make the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end, even to this day.

I have been asked to choose 25 of my all time favorite tracks that influenced me. I know you will love all of them Ian.

No Rave in sight by the way, all Nothern, Jazz/Funk and relatively obscure Disco tunes.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Steve Luigi

[Paul Shirley]

When I had a break from Northern, like many of us did, I got into the House/Rave scene big style and actually DJd it for a good length of time, and still do a bit.

I was amazed to be honest at how similar the Rave scene in particular was to the Northern scene. Traveling miles to the club you liked the best, taking drugs, dancing all night, and very loved up.

I used to say to them, I have seen all this before in the 70s, but they couldn't get to grips with it until I explained the Northern scene of which most of them were too young to remember.

There are a lot of people that used to and still are into Northern that got into the dance scene and vice versa.

What REALLY pee's me off, is that whenever there is a documentary made about the Dance scene in the UK, it always seems to concentrate on the South and Manchester, and Leeds never gets a mention. Leeds was responsible for many household club nights such as 'Back2Basics, Hard Times, Orbit, Ark, Leeds Warehouse, Kaos, Soak and the 'Leeds Gallery' where I was resident DJ/Promoter for 9 years.

I just wish that the programmers would start to see that it was not all about the South and Hacienda, and look a little further with their research.

Eric Morillo was good though

doncaster warehouse and sub club acid jaxx scotland

Edited August 26, 2012 by steptoe

[Soulman]

And I'm playing a 70's/80's type set in Southend tonight so at least I'm playing something decent!

Ian D

The Dj booth isn't up any ladders is it Spike

Steve

[Soulman]

He did according to my research Steve. I know Jimmy Saville invented double-deck deejaying is a tough one to swallow but he was an enterprising guy so it makes perfect sense - he started the twin decks thing during world war 2 apparently....

He used to come down to a club I deejayed at called the In-Time in Leeds in the late 70's - another basement discotheque LOL.....

Ian D

The thing is Spike so did Ron Diggins. He started during the war with two 78 turntables. I guess this would be a hard one to prove.

Steve

[Guest Nick Harrison]

eh? the dance scene that became northern did in fact start in night clubs and there was defo a club culture since the late 60s as already mentiond in a post further up , and it wasnt in any old working mens clubs or dance halls either what do you think went on at the wheel then?

there were clubs springing up all over the place open all night unlicensed hence the term underground , what do you think they did there play darts and dominoes or somthing ? how do you think amphetamine became so popular ? one sutch club by way of example was a club called room at the top in wigan it was going long before the casino opened its doors to northern soul. it was open all night and all people did there was dance

Thanks for yet another boring posted reminder of the history of the northern scene. I am so uneducated, have never attended a northern soul event and never taken drugs. :lol: .

[Amsterdam Russ]

Nice article about Ron Diggins and the early days of the mobile DJ. Great pics, too...

https://www.djhistory.com/features/dig-this-ron-diggins-and-the-first-mobile-djs

[Soulman]

Thanks for yet another boring posted reminder of the history of the northern scene. I am so uneducated, have never attended a northern soul event and never taken drugs. :lol: .

yeah right.... and I've never been for a sh*te in 50 years

[Alison H]

doncaster warehouse and sub club acid jaxx scotland

Was Doncaster Warehouse the one where they had that London Bus in the yard (or maybe it was in the Warehouse) that you could on to chill. If so, I've been there, if not, frxgg knows where I was

[Alison H]

Leeds..... now I think I've heard of that place. I also believe they had a football team once

Steve

and a good rugby team once

[Alison H]

Yep. I was disappointed. As with many of these shows, I thought it gave a totally disjointed account of what I remember.

As an example, those guys who said that it was embarassing to be a DJ before 1985 are just stupid. I have no idea what they were talking about. They obviously weren't around in the 60's and 70's.

And the idea that Ibiza 'started' when Paul Oakenfold, Danny Rampling, Nicky Holloway and Johnny Walker went there in '87 is ridiculous. They were at least 20 years too late to the party. Ibiza has been rocking since the mid 60's. I heard the best mixing I've ever heard in Pacha in 1976 when I was 21 so the so-called Balaeric scene was no mystery to me.

The fact that 4 mates went on holiday to Ibiza and witnessed something for the first time doesn't make it definitive. I give 'em credit for bringing that vibe to London in the late 80's but it's not like it was a mystery before then.

I'm not knocked out with the live deejaying either. No live dancefloor? Just a deejay spinning to a camera crew. Boring. It'll be interesting to see what audience figures they get.......

Ian D

I switched off after half an hour of Grandmaster Flash, he was giving me a stonking headache, and it was all so weird, like you say, seeing the camera pan out and all you're left with is the dj playing to the studio of erm cameramen.

I didn't catch the earlier documentary, but I'm gonna give it a whirl on 40D later (I can see it's been slated, but it will still be better than the other t.v options tonight)

[Guest dundeedavie]

Well I liked it for what it was, then again i'm not anal about these sort of things

[Paul Shirley]

Thanks for yet another boring posted reminder of the history of the northern scene. I am so uneducated, have never attended a northern soul event and never taken drugs. :lol: .

your welcome but i only mentioned it the once ! anyway i didn't keep it in the serious context of CLUB CULTURE did i ?

Edited August 25, 2012 by steptoe

[sepia]

bit off topic but...a few of my scooter mates got into house/rave in its heights.

one night they were having a house party & in a small room had the technics set up.the speakers were set up in a bigger room.

i was djn scooter/soul music @ the time.my mate said so you think your a dj(which i didnt think i was).

he took me into the decks room & gave me a box of white label 12's & said try mixing these.

so i put on a few 12's listened to the beats & found it so easy to mix them in.after an hour he came back & said i had the big room bouncing.he then said what i had done in one hour took him four years to master.he tried to tape me with the tape deck but it wouldnt work.either i was a natural or the drugs was great that night,lol.

after that i started to think i was judge jules but was told i was going to far & just mixing to much.ok for 1st time i thot.

had to edit as just rememberd what happened after that.my other mate was getting it on with a girl in another room.the house owner wasnt having it & chucked us out.was early morning & cold.so we started a wee fire in the garden.the wind got up & the flames from our wee fire set light to 3 massive trees in the garden.he came out & went nuts.we couldnt stopped laughing,lol.

he got evicted not long after,ooops.

Edited August 25, 2012 by sepia

[Guest julesp1905]

And the brief obligatory references to northern soul were a bit odd, especially when Terry Farley summed it up by saying: "it sounds good when you're on drugs".

Paul

Terry says that about everything he likes.........He does after all put on a popular Northern Soul night "Gentlemens Pinch" every four months or so in Shorditch.

[Thfcliam]

awful programme

[Guest dundeedavie]

awful programme

Why?

[Chalky]

Thanks for yet another boring posted reminder of the history of the northern scene. I am so uneducated, have never attended a northern soul event and never taken drugs. :lol: .

Was there really any need for such a sarcastic post? If you don't like the post ignore it or post a counter in a reasoned manner, petty comments like this don't do anyone any good. And you wonder why some no longer bother.