Following The Rap & Kids Threed

[Guest]

This was originally going to be a reply to the "what other music floats your boat? " thread but i decided to start a new one with it

I personaly like all kinds of music & my record/cd collection ranges from classical to led zep, but no genre invokes such passion in me as rare/northern soul !

Contradicting that statement, I can't get my head round rap music !! I find the gratuitous swearing (swallowed the dictionary this morning, just need to swallow the how to spoll book now ) & the hate in the lyrics hard to stomach !! Add to that the constant use of just one or two bass drum beats & it just gets on your nerves. I was standing outside my son's room the other day (no tell a lie i was about two streets away from his bedroom !!) & all i could hear was this sound like someone playing the bass riff from "Ultravox Vienna" on the bass drum & it just went on & on !! I eventually pointed this out to him, to which he replied in his usual eloquant maner "It's better than that northern soul shit". He then proceded to fish out a handful of different rap tracks to prove that dad talks bollocks, & guess what ? Do Do, Dum Dum , Do Do - Do Do , Dum Dum , Do Do , Bloody Vienna again !! . "All right listen to this one" you got it ! Do Do , Dum Dum e.t.c . I think he then conceded the argument because the reply was "get lost now then cause' iv'e got to do my homework" Him do homework before 11 O'clock at night ? yeah !!

Another thing i find hard to understand about today's rap & black music is this. In the 60's when the biggest part of the music we love was produced, the black population were oppressed & discustingly treated like second class citizens & denied chances & basic rights, yet they sang mostley of love & happiness ? Yet today, when they are (in the main) treated, rightly, as equals they seem to want to sing about "killing yo mother fucker bastard e.t.c". Any psychoanalysts out there explain this ??

Back to my son, He got his own back on me !! (as hard as it was for me) I had to ask for his help with HTML when we were putting up the web site for the University Do, & the only way i could accsess the page was by using the password he set up. It was "Shitty Northern Soul" & the promt question if i had forgotten it, was "who is the greastest influence on your life" the answer ? "Michael Jackson" !!!! :angry:

[Guest Netspeaky]

This was originally going to be a reply to the "what other music floats your boat? " thread but i decided to start a new one with it

I personaly like all kinds of music & my record/cd collection ranges from classical to led zep, but no genre invokes such passion in me as rare/northern soul !

Contradicting that statement, I can't get my head round rap music !! I find the gratuitous swearing (swallowed the dictionary this morning, just need to swallow the how to spoll book now ) & the hate in the lyrics hard to stomach !! Add to that the constant use of just one or two bass drum beats & it just gets on your nerves. I was standing outside my son's room the other day (no tell a lie i was about two streets away from his bedroom !!) & all i could hear was this sound like someone playing the bass riff from "Ultravox Vienna" on the bass drum & it just went on & on !! I eventually pointed this out to him, to which he replied in his usual eloquant maner "It's better than that northern soul shit". He then proceded to fish out a handful of different rap tracks to prove that dad talks bollocks, & guess what ? Do Do, Dum Dum , Do Do - Do Do , Dum Dum , Do Do , Bloody Vienna again !! . "All right listen to this one" you got it ! Do Do , Dum Dum e.t.c . I think he then conceded the argument because the reply was "get lost now then cause' iv'e got to do my homework" Him do homework before 11 O'clock at night ? yeah !!

Another thing i find hard to understand about today's rap & black music is this. In the 60's when the biggest part of the music we love was produced, the black population were oppressed & discustingly treated like second class citizens & denied chances & basic rights, yet they sang mostley of love & happiness ? Yet today, when they are (in the main) treated, rightly, as equals they seem to want to sing about "killing yo mother fucker bastard e.t.c". Any psychoanalysts out there explain this ??

Interesting comment, notice the difference in the way Curtis deal with the subject in the 60's.

Sometimes veiled, other times blatant, Mayfield's lyrics were often about Black pride and reflected the self-determination of the Afro-American community. Mayfield would become a significant voice within the Black power movement but his words were always more universal than that. He knew he was in a position to influence, enlighten and educate and his best work displayed that wisdom. His weren't appeals for radical Black power but equality and unity, values and goals similar to those of Martin Luther King and the Southern Leadership Conference. No one using song so effectively and consistently had communicated such ideas at the time.

You can read the rest at https://www.unionsquaremusic.co.uk/titlev4....=300&LABEL_ID=7

Back to my son, He got his own back on me !! (as hard as it was for me) I had to ask for his help with HTML when we were putting up the web site for the University Do, & the only way i could accsess the page was by using the password he set up. It was "Shitty Northern Soul" & the promt question if i had forgotten it, was "who is the greastest influence on your life" the answer ? "Michael Jackson" !!!! :angry:

[Guest]

Read the piece, really intresting read. I think it is probably right ( if i have interpreted it correctly ) to make people aware in a peaceful way, in the long run has a more profound effect than angry protest, which only breeds more hate. Do you think that message is somewhere in rap then ? because it still sounds like anger & hatred to me. But then i suppose i can't say i have really looked at the lyrics of loads of rap tunes in great depth, just picked up on the negative ones perhaps ?.

[wendy]

Add to that the constant use of just one or two bass drum beats & it just gets on your nerves.

I dont think that's strictly true, maybe if you listened to it a bit more you'd get your head round it?

[Guest]

I dont think that's strictly true, maybe if you listened to it a bit more you'd get your head round it?

I think this is a good point, hate and violence is not the totality of rap music at all. However its not the most listenable/accessible music to people of our age as im sure our music wasnt to our parents.

[Guest]

Allthough i do remember mine listening to The Platters.

Edited February 21, 2006 by Maninthesun.

[Guest]

I dont think that's strictly true, maybe if you listened to it a bit more you'd get your head round it?

I understand what you are saying Wendy, but i don't think i have got the patience ! Besides i have got to dislike it, i'm a geriatric Dad with no taste !!

[Larsc]

I dont think that's strictly true, maybe if you listened to it a bit more you'd get your head round it?

I used to think it was kinda ok so I tried to dig deeper to look for the real gems. All I could find post 1994 was crap

[Guest miff]

My 2 boys are in to Rap Its on all day. Boom ,Boom, Boom, Whilst trying to have a senable converstion with them I heard myself saying " I Dont see what you see in this rap crap, what relevence has the strugle of black american Youth got to in common with you and your life as white and english", And then remembered my dad saying much the same thing to me. I shut up told them to enjoy the music and hoped that it gave them as much pleasure as soul music has given me Much to the bewilderment of my 2 boys

[uni ted]

they like it,we dont,end of its called youth,you want to try and listen to green day bursting your eardrums everyday,well untill he got sick of me complaining about it and upped sticks in a right huff.

[Mark Bicknell]

they like it,we dont,end of its called youth,you want to try and listen to green day bursting your eardrums everyday,well untill he got sick of me complaining about it and upped sticks in a right huff.

My lad is nine and he's just getting into music, rap seems to be in his fav list at the present time which i don't have a problem with, now if it was James Blunt, Kyser Chief's i can't stand them...lol, Cold Play and all the other bland drivel which record companies seem to churn out then i would have a problem....lol joking apart all music if a child gets it and gets into it should be embraced,Rap, crap or otherwise, perhaps if more kids were into music instead of fighting with the police as a form of modern day entertainment the world would be a brighter place, still not all adults embrace and love music as we do, often music is wallpaper, means nothing to most and is used as a backdrop to getting pissed, fighting and shagging.........sorry.

Mark Bicknell.

[Codfromderby]

My lad is nine and he's just getting into music, rap seems to be in his fav list at the present time which i don't have a problem with, now if it was James Blunt, Kyser Chief's i can't stand them...lol, Cold Play and all the other bland drivel which record companies seem to churn out then i would have a problem....lol joking apart all music if a child gets it and gets into it should be embraced,Rap, crap or otherwise, perhaps if more kids were into music instead of fighting with the police as a form of modern day entertainment the world would be a brighter place, still not all adults embrace and love music as we do, often music is wallpaper, means nothing to most and is used as a backdrop to getting pissed, fighting and shagging.........sorry.

Mark Bicknell.

firstly, i have a teenage daughter who when playing her rnb or whatever its called, her dad (me) tried to explain how black music had influenced not only dance but also pop and overall teenage culture from the 40,s onward and therefore the northern soul movement mirrored the acceptance of the earlier frowned upon acceptance of rnb and other black music forms in a popular media society, her reply was shut up dad ,your so sad and old innit,

secondly a young lad from work was proudly playing his latest rap cd in his "bling" brand new company car, the lyrics of the song spoke about the struggle of youth in the ghetto, the location of this incident was outside his home in an exclusive village in the peak park, i explained to the young lad that all his music collection could be purchased from asda, overall young uns are a part of a consumer feed it to you society, when i was i lad, we had to travel to hear our music!!

[Guest ScooterNik]

Thats a bad comparison.

You've always been able to buy as high a percentage of released soul music in your average record shop as you can rap.

And the stuff that will be collectable twenty years down theline will be rap thats not had any exposure, not the latest Emenemenem release.

I'm guessing obviously, but I'd put money on it.

[FrankM]

I don't know why you're moaning you ain't got a hip hop DJ as a son who borrows your records and then uses them for scratching , beats and breaks. And leaves thumb prints, sticky paper and worse on them.

Love and happiness in the Sixties.

Lee Dorsey Working in a Coal Mine

The Contours First I look at the Purse

Jr. Walker Shotgun

all cover topics beloved by today's rappers.

[Guest]

firstly, i have a teenage daughter who when playing her rnb or whatever its called, her dad (me) tried to explain how black music had influenced not only dance but also pop and overall teenage culture from the 40,s onward and therefore the northern soul movement mirrored the acceptance of the earlier frowned upon acceptance of rnb and other black music forms in a popular media society, her reply was shut up dad ,your so sad and old innit,

secondly a young lad from work was proudly playing his latest rap cd in his "bling" brand new company car, the lyrics of the song spoke about the struggle of youth in the ghetto, the location of this incident was outside his home in an exclusive village in the peak park, i explained to the young lad that all his music collection could be purchased from asda, overall young uns are a part of a consumer feed it to you society, when i was i lad, we had to travel to hear our music!!

Yeh bloody too right !!, & all we had to aid us on that journey was a couple o' lard sarnies & a bottle o' tizer !! Something else you have made me bring up now ( apart from the lard sarnies that is ) R & B !! This "R & B" as they call it, when has it ever seen any "R & bloody B" ?? This is another argument i had with my lad. R & B means Rhythm & Blues not Rap & (load of ) Bollocks !!

Aint it great getting old eh ! & doing all the moaning like ya dad did !!

[Guest Dan]

firstly, i have a teenage daughter who when playing her rnb or whatever its called, her dad (me) tried to explain how black music had influenced not only dance but also pop and overall teenage culture from the 40,s onward and therefore the northern soul movement mirrored the acceptance of the earlier frowned upon acceptance of rnb and other black music forms in a popular media society, her reply was shut up dad ,your so sad and old innit,

secondly a young lad from work was proudly playing his latest rap cd in his "bling" brand new company car, the lyrics of the song spoke about the struggle of youth in the ghetto, the location of this incident was outside his home in an exclusive village in the peak park, i explained to the young lad that all his music collection could be purchased from asda, overall young uns are a part of a consumer feed it to you society, when i was i lad, we had to travel to hear our music!!

great post

Edited February 21, 2006 by Dan

[Guest Dan]

as a father of two young girls, and a man myself who obviously viewed women primarily as sex objects (past tense, note, and in a nice way, of course ) years ago, as we all do when young, i never thought i'd be saying this but i find the lyrics of most rap offensive. they're disrespectful to women, they're full of hate and shit and i despise them and the people who produce and profit from this crap. i also despise the effect they are having on our culture, black and white. unfortunately, the more simple-minded of our youths can't distinguish between camberley and compton and simply ape the first thing they see on tv.

just another way in which the country, nay the world, is going to the dogs.

pass the rope

[Guest]

as a father of two young girls, and a man myself who obviously viewed women primarily as sex objects (past tense, note, and in a nice way, of course ) years ago, as we all do when young, i never thought i'd be saying this but i find the lyrics of most rap offensive. they're disrespectful to women, they're full of hate and shit and i despise them and the people who produce and profit from this crap. i also despise the effect they are having on our culture, black and white. unfortunately, the more simple-minded of our youths can't distinguish between camberley and compton and simply ape the first thing they see on tv.

just another way in which the country, nay the world, is going to the dogs.

pass the rope

Here Here !!

Got the rope ready Dan, Hey we can play "Hokis Pokis - Swing" as we hang there

[Simon T]

Personally, I think RAP went down hill with the second NWA album, but love the first. I think the ‘gangsta’ stuff sent it on it’s own way that’s got little to do with soul or owt else, and the stuff it sampled –Rappers Delite, ‘good times’ and all that. Just gonna dig out my Boo Ya Tribe albums!

PS Anyone got a 12” of 3 x Dope ‘ Funk dividends’ for sale, Arista 1998?

[Guest]

When a northern soul tune is played as background music on a TV advert my daughter always says "I like That" but if I play ANY northern soul on my turntable she goes mad, can't stand it! Maybe if MTV devoted one channel to strictly SOUL music from all eras more children would enjoy it (and I'm not talking Beyonce )

[Tomangoes]

BEST RAP RECORD - COOL OFF - DETROIT EXECUTIVES, AND ALSO MINNIE THE MOOCHA.

ONE THING FOR SURE RAP SINGERS TODAY ENJOY A BETTER LIVING THAN THE SOUL SINGERS OF YESTERYEAR. JUST LOOK AT THE HOUSES THEY LIVE IN ON THE MTV SHOWS ABOUT IT.

[Guest]

BEST RAP RECORD - COOL OFF - DETROIT EXECUTIVES, AND ALSO MINNIE THE MOOCHA.

ONE THING FOR SURE RAP SINGERS TODAY ENJOY A BETTER LIVING THAN THE SOUL SINGERS OF YESTERYEAR. JUST LOOK AT THE HOUSES THEY LIVE IN ON THE MTV SHOWS ABOUT IT.

its just getting too much nowardays,all you see is rap,rap and rap again even if some new chick makes a record there has to be a rap part in it or it wont sell!?

rap has become the new popcorn!

i only like rappers delight and grandmaster flash.

i'm getting old

[Guest sydney bridge]

í…½S MARLENA SHAW GO AWAY LITTLE BOY A RAP RECORD?

[Gene-R]

Whilst I keep an open mind for all types of music, there are many reasons why I detest rap music, the main ones being:

- Most rap tracks exploit other artists' backing tracks by sampling them in part, or whole. We've seen examples of tracks like "Under Pressure" (Queen & David Bowie), "Soul Bossa Nova" (Quincy Jones), "True" (Spandau Ballet) which have been used as backing tracks for rap tracks, and no credit is ever given to the originator of these samples. The list of sampled tracks is endless. Are we sure royalties are always being paid? Where's the originality and genuine talent?

- I know it's already been covered here, but it's rap records that glamourise violence, murder and "gangsta" culture, and make firearms a fashion accessory, that gives the rest of that scene a bad name. Take, for example, murder cases from the past couple of years, where it has evolved that the murderer's actions were influenced by the lyrics of a rap track.

- How can anyone have the nerve of using the term R&B for groups such as Destiny's Child etc? It's not Rhythm, and it's definitely not Blues. I have to be so careful when I admit my love for ORIGINAL R&B, and ensure there are no chavs within earshot.

I'll step down off my soap box now................

P. Doddy

Liverpool’s king of rap.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Gene-R

[Guest sydney bridge]

It would be strange to see a rap band covering The Gospel Classics

"more love,thats what we need"cause of the way the lyrics start"I just got back from a riot in town................."

[Guest Dan]

Whilst I keep an open mind for all types of music, there are many reasons why I detest rap music, the main ones being:

- Most rap tracks exploit other artists' backing tracks by sampling them in part, or whole. We've seen examples of tracks like "Under Pressure" (Queen & David Bowie), "Soul Bossa Nova" (Quincy Jones), "True" (Spandau Ballet) which have been used as backing tracks for rap tracks, and no credit is ever given to the originator of these samples. The list of sampled tracks is endless. Are we sure royalties are always being paid? Where's the originality and genuine talent?

- I know it's already been covered here, but it's rap records that glamourise violence, murder and "gangsta" culture, and make firearms a fashion accessory, that gives the rest of that scene a bad name. Take, for example, murder cases from the past couple of years, where it has evolved that the murderer's actions were influenced by the lyrics of a rap track.

- How can anyone have the nerve of using the term R&B for groups such as Destiny's Child etc? It's not Rhythm, and it's definitely not Blues. I have to be so careful when I admit my love for ORIGINAL R&B, and ensure there are no chavs within earshot.

I'll step down off my soap box now................

P. Doddy

Liverpool's king of rap.

spot on gene

except that i always take great delight at parties and the like in informing people that r kelly isn't f*cking r&b and that they are tw*ts if they think it is. i'm very popular at parties, as you can imagine.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Dan

[Guest Dan]

It would be strange to see a rap band covering The Gospel Classics

"more love,thats what we need"cause of the way the lyrics start"I just got back from a riot in town................."

what a quality tune that is syd

and here it is, by the wonders of modern technology, for anyone who doesn't know it or can't remember it.

i can imagine 50 cent's version: 'More guns, that's what we need, motherf*cka.'

Gospel Classics.mp3

[Gene-R]

spot on gene

except that i always take great delight at parties and the like in informing people that r kelly isn't f*cking r&b and that they are tw*ts if they think it is. i'm very popular at parties, as you can imagine.

Wanna come to a party Dan?

[Guest ShaneH]

you gotta give rap some credit though.

its something that started on the streets. it was around for years before anything got a major release. the original lyrics/sounds have very little in common with the stuff released today. so to disregard the art form is similar to disregarding soul music because you dont like craig david imo.

they also said rap would never last. surely it has to be one of the longest running music styles to sit proudly in the top flight?

first rap records - gil scott heron apparently. also 'rapture' by blondie '78 i think.

i dislike most releases these days but i love the sounds/culture of the early 80s

adidas/nike etc would be nowhere without rap music as well.

Shane

[Gene-R]

you gotta give rap some credit though.

I'd give rap a capital C.........

[Guest ShaneH]

i may be wrong but didnt many blame rap on the demise of motown?

motown wouldnt sign any rap artists in the mid 80s and therefore lost millions in revenue.

big selling motown artists in the 80s....Shanice / boyz2men - no rap though.

anyone else heard this?

Shane

[Guest Dan]

you gotta give rap some credit though.

its something that started on the streets. it was around for years before anything got a major release. the original lyrics/sounds have very little in common with the stuff released today. so to disregard the art form is similar to disregarding soul music because you dont like craig david imo.

they also said rap would never last. surely it has to be one of the longest running music styles to sit proudly in the top flight?

first rap records - gil scott heron apparently. also 'rapture' by blondie '78 i think.

i dislike most releases these days but i love the sounds/culture of the early 80s

adidas/nike etc would be nowhere without rap music as well.

Shane

i'm with gene - c-rap for me old bean

now, about this new fangled hi-nrg stuff...

[Guest]

Have to say that this a great thread. I am a fan of hip hop but detest rap, the difference in my opion is that hip hip and hip hop culture originated with Dj's finding breaks etc that they could , cut, scratch, juggle, loop & whatever to create a party jam with.

Because of this the records they used were from a wide range of genres not least funk and soul. These Dj's and records are how i and many of my freinds were intruduced to the joys of soul along with many other styles of music i would not normally have been exsposed to.

Rap on the other hand once again in my opinion is all about the rapper, who whilst they may claim to be influenced by artists like the last poets or gil scott heron lyrically are normally socially maladjusted ego manaics who can do nothing other than spread bad vibes and are pretty offensive individuals influenced by nothing than money.

People like puff daddy, etc make my blood boil as they are far removed from what i believe the original culture was all about.

The shift away from Dj's to rappers as the main focus of this culture has, in my opinion had a negitive effect as the emphasise has moved from the music which if you listen to older/old school hip hop was influenced by all manner of great artists from all genres all be it stolen or sampled wholesale in some cases, which i know some people disagree with (and rightly so if no royalities are paid to the original artist) was still great music, which a lot of people of my generation had never heard before and became the catalist for me and others like me searching out the originals and trying to learn more about the music.

Sorry if the above winds any one up but felt i had to say something.

[Little-stevie]

as a father of two young girls, and a man myself who obviously viewed women primarily as sex objects (past tense, note, and in a nice way, of course ) years ago, as we all do when young, i never thought i'd be saying this but i find the lyrics of most rap offensive. they're disrespectful to women, they're full of hate and shit and i despise them and the people who produce and profit from this crap. i also despise the effect they are having on our culture, black and white. unfortunately, the more simple-minded of our youths can't distinguish between camberley and compton and simply ape the first thing they see on tv.

just another way in which the country, nay the world, is going to the dogs.

pass the rope

Good points Dan...I often go to my sisters and she's got kids who listen to some music with hate lyrics,gangbanging,steamin,macho bling bullshit..They too would have all homo's(their words not mine) strung from trees because some artist told them too..They know better now but so many kids take in these lyrics and it fuels hate..Aint enough love going around it seems...

[Guest Dan]

socially maladjusted ego manaics who can do nothing other than spread bad vibes and are pretty offensive individuals influenced by nothing than money.

sounds like me.

[Guest]

sounds like me.

PMSL!!!

[Guest Trevski]

you gotta give rap some credit though.

its something that started on the streets. it was around for years before anything got a major release. the original lyrics/sounds have very little in common with the stuff released today. so to disregard the art form is similar to disregarding soul music because you dont like craig david imo.

they also said rap would never last. surely it has to be one of the longest running music styles to sit proudly in the top flight?

first rap records - gil scott heron apparently. also 'rapture' by blondie '78 i think.

i dislike most releases these days but i love the sounds/culture of the early 80s

adidas/nike etc would be nowhere without rap music as well.

Shane

Trouble is it doesn't appear to me to progress. Been around a long time, and it's still a bunch of talentless thugs, talking because the can't sing! Jackie Wilson is spinning in his grave at what black music has become!

[Guest andrew bin]

without rap we wouldn't have had Goldie Looking Chain and their guns don't kill people rappers do song

which has the one of the best lines iv'e heard in ages "guns don't kill people rappers do i saw on a documentary on bbc2"

glc

Edited February 22, 2006 by andrew bin

[Guest miff]

No idea myself. First one I can think of being an out and out Rap song is ' White Lines '

[Guest ShaneH]

miff, i am gonna merge this one with the other 'rap' thread mate.

we cant have 2 'rap' threads on the same day on a soul forum.

hope you dont mind but this question was asked on the other thread to which i gave a half-hearted reply.

cheers

Shane

[Winsford Soul]

No idea myself. First one I can think of being an out and out Rap song is ' White Lines '

Me thinks the Sugar Hill Gang .... Rappers Delight. Was one of the first i can remember or Blondie,s ... Rapture. Cant realy remember i was a fully paid up member of the Wide Awake Club then

Steve

[Girthdevon]

No idea myself. First one I can think of being an out and out Rap song is ' White Lines '

Def not White Lines or Rappers Delight - The Fatback Band - King Tim III - Spring 12" 1979 - is supposed to be the first.

Cheers Girf

Edited February 22, 2006 by Girthdevon

[Guest ShaneH]

sorry, i have merged the topics in the wrong order

can anyone remember the original title of this thread?

i change it back accordingly

cheers

Shane

ps. gill scott heron was the first to rap on a record if i am right?

[Codfromderby]

i'm with gene - c-rap for me old bean

now, about this new fangled hi-nrg stuff...

i,ll tell you one for nowt mate, you woudnt want to be called PUFF DADDY if you drank in some of the pubs round ere

[Guest vinylvixen]

Def not White Lines or Rappers Delight - The Fatback Band - King Tim III - Spring 12" 1979 - is supposed to be the first.

Cheers Girf

The first 'rappers' ie. talking over the mike in time and rythmn to the backing track are the Jamaican chatters and toasters - U Roy, I Roy, Dennis Alcapone, Sir Lord Comic, Prince Buster - masters of their craft - round about 1967.......way back in the day.....maybe not sustained monologue like we hear today but certainly 'chatty chatty' on the mike - and 'toasting' over the top of established Rock Steady favourites - this was 'the version'...........go check these examples:

Dreader than Dread - Honey Boy Martin

Prince Buster - Ten Commandments/ Judge Dread

Dennis Alcapone - Get in the Groove/ No 1 Station

Hugh 'U' Roy - Flashing my whip/ Treasure Isle Skank/ Version Galore

Scotty and the Crystalites - Sesame Street

Miss Ska-ing West .......Jo

[jocko]

sorry, i have merged the topics in the wrong order

can anyone remember the original title of this thread?

i change it back accordingly

cheers

Shane

ps. gill scott heron was the first to rap on a record if i am right?

I am sure there is evidence of it much further back, Last Poets would precede him would they not, although probably both more inspiring rap/hip hop than recording it in peoples eyes.

Something never could get round but last few years or so have really broadened out my listening and the decent hip-hop stuff is excellent, Common, Twalib Kweli and The Roots recently producing very soulful (not in the literal singing sense you understand) stuff and no gangster stuff within a mile of them. Not stuff I listen to daily but more and more over recent months.

Back to the broader point we are getting old, agree that the majority, especially the stuff the media covers is awful and disrespectful, and the kids imitating it are scary, if a little sad, however sure they said the same when some of you were running around with your safety pins and Vivienne Westwood ripped shirts

Cheers

Jock

[Girthdevon]

The first 'rappers' ie. talking over the mike in time and rythmn to the backing track are the Jamaican chatters and toasters - U Roy, I Roy, Dennis Alcapone, Sir Lord Comic, Prince Buster - masters of their craft - round about 1967.......way back in the day.....maybe not sustained monologue like we hear today but certainly 'chatty chatty' on the mike - and 'toasting' over the top of established Rock Steady favourites - this was 'the version'...........go check these examples:

Dreader than Dread - Honey Boy Martin

Prince Buster - Ten Commandments/ Judge Dread

Dennis Alcapone - Get in the Groove/ No 1 Station

Hugh 'U' Roy - Flashing my whip/ Treasure Isle Skank/ Version Galore

Scotty and the Crystalites - Sesame Street

Miss Ska-ing West .......Jo

From an Old School Hip Hop site

Rap music has always existed as an element of Hip Hop since the culture's birth in the early 1970s. The first rappers (called MCs) would rap over funk, reggae, dub, soul, and disco beats and would hold spontaneous rhyming battles that were meant to verbally attack an opponent called "freestyles" (freestyling and flowing were words used to describe the impromptu vocal delivery). Artists that laid the template for such aggressive spoken word set to a funky beat include James Brown, Gil Scott-Heron, The Watts Prophets, and The Last Poets.

By the spring of 1979, the first rap record surfaced with funk band The Fatback Band's "King Tim III (Personality Jock)". Later, The Sugar Hill Gang debuted in the summer with Hip Hop's most famous commercial record yet,"Rapper's Delight".

[Girthdevon]

I am sure there is evidence of it much further back, Last Poets would precede him would they not, although probably both more inspiring rap/hip hop than recording it in peoples eyes.

Something never could get round but last few years or so have really broadened out my listening and the decent hip-hop stuff is excellent, Common, Twalib Kweli and The Roots recently producing very soulful (not in the literal singing sense you understand) stuff and no gangster stuff within a mile of them. Not stuff I listen to daily but more and more over recent months.

Back to the broader point we are getting old, agree that the majority, especially the stuff the media covers is awful and disrespectful, and the kids imitating it are scary, if a little sad, however sure they said the same when some of you were running around with your safety pins and Vivienne Westwood ripped shirts

Cheers

Jock

Spot on Jock

Girf

[Youyou]

Dear all,

The first question I have asked myself when I read this thread was: Is history repeating itself?

Not too long ago I have seen a documentation about the Stones coming to Germany in the 60ies. In this documentation a lot of interviews with parents, older people on the streets, teachers, etc. were shown. One could hear some "nice" statements like "Nigger Music", "Monkey Music", "Drug Music", "Will inevitably lead to the decline of the occident's culture", etc. Do not get me wrong, please: I am not saying that someone of you is calling Rap "Nigger Music". I am talking more about a general attitude towards this (rather) youth music.

Unfortunately Rap is often reduced to "MTV Rap" or Gangsta Rap, because this is what one sees in television or what is talked about in the remaining media like Newspapers. But to me it is the same as if one would reduce Northern Soul to just one label, Motown, or Football supporters to a bunch of hooligans.

Of course Gangsta Rap is an important current in Rap. But there is just so much more musical wise. Listen to Mos Def, Common, Ugly Duckling, Lone Catalysts, J.Rawls, Little Brother, The Roots, stuff produced by Madlib, etc. The vibe of this kind of rap music is totally different to the Bling Bling style.

As far as I am concerned the argument that Rap does not change is not true either. Unfortunately I am not a Music scientist, nor someone producing Hip Hop, so I can't tell you from a musical or technical point of view how this music has changed. It is just something that is crystal clear when you listen to records of today and to one which was made five or ten years ago.

What I have to admit though is that I can not judge the lyrics. As my English is pretty bad, I do not understand the majority of the lyrics. So, I just can repeat what I have read in magazines. Without any doubt there are a lot Rap tracks whose lyrics are more than doubtful. Violence against Gays and Women, Drugs, etc. But again, I do not think that it is justified to condemn all Rap tracks.

The Hip Hop culture plays an important role for the identity formation of a lot of youth. You have a particular style of dancing, dressing, music, language, etc. I think in this regards it is even a bit similar to the Northern Soul culture.

I am 35 now (and to be honest: my first CD were the Beastie Boys) and on the one hand I love Northern Soul, but on the other hand I can understand that youth is not particularly interested in music that is forty years old, in particular if it is the music of their parents.

But I do not want to be more catholic than the Pope. I like Rap, but there is a lot of music around that I do not like, that I do not understand, that I even do not want to understand. What I try to do is to remember what I felt when I first heard Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Run DMC, etc.

What we, being already a bit older (but not always wiser I have to admit) can do imho, is to show children that there is more than just cheesy "Top Of The Pops" music whether it is Rap, Rock, or Pop. Below this media and commercial surface is an ocean of music and musicians that deserved to be listened too. It does not matter if it s Northern Trash Metal, Southern Funk Reggae, of whatever the next trend might be called.

Best regards

YouYou

[Guest miff]

Been thinking about this, How about, The Dixie cups - The Clappin song . Now is that Rap, If rapping is talking over a beat, then it must be,