OK Boys and Girls, time to get guessing, what will this go for?! A mint Gwen Owens.

 

 

collecting Detroit I must admit I never heard of that 2nd press story and would like to know more. When were they done, slightly after the first run and in order to replace them missprinted 45s or later ? Is it another case of the artist or producer or whoever re-pressing them years later trying to meet demand ?

Obviously the same stampers have been used so they seem to be "original" ? I used to have a non-jumping but towards the end distorted issue which needed to be faded out towards the end when playing out. I still have a WD thats neither jumping nor off-centre. I am just saying this because JM names three different original releases incl. the WD copies that are off-centre. If my WD isnt off-center I am sure there must be more like that which would add a fourth release of "JSYWAN" ?

Isnt it amazing how stories like this keep cropping up and get a explained half a century after they have been recorded and decades after the first started collecting them precious 45s ? really amazes me, its good!

Edited March 16, 201312 yr by Marc Forrest

I still have a WD thats neither jumping nor off-centre. I am just saying this because JM names three different original releases incl. the WD copies that are off-centre. If my WD isnt off-center I am sure there must be more like that which would add a fourth release of "JSYWAN" ?

 

Marc - what is your matrix on the WD - is it the 344 matrix that JM mentions, or is it the other one please?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

yes was back in 1975 when sam had the first copy of G O,but he did not have it long i was at jonathon woodcliffe,s house the night he handed over £100 pound for it this becoming the first record to brake into the £100 barrier,and as i was still doing my paper round was happy to have a tape recording from him ha ha ,memories

Am I right in thinking the jump jumps into the beat (if you know what I mean) and isn't a train wreck obvious jump?

 

John Manship sold a copy that played like that maybe 4 or 5 years ago. I remember reading the description and listening to the sound clip. 

 

But I think that each copy skips in a different spot. 

When Gwen O brought those copies to Prestatyn few years ago where did she source them from anyone know ?

When Gwen O brought those copies to Prestatyn few years ago where did she source them from anyone know ?

 

As far as I can remember she'd had them since the 60s .. meaning she got them at the time of the release and had kept them (obviously) until then .. in other words a contemporaneous acquisition

 

Andy

So what one was used on the mid 70s styrene Monarch pressings,as these don`t jump

so was it done from the later 2nd press or from else where?.

 

Dave f.....

 he handed over £100 pound for it this becoming the first record to brake into the £100 barrier,and as i was still doing my paper round was happy to have a tape recording from him ha ha ,memories

I think Jimmy Conwells' "Cigarette Ashes" broke £100 in 1972, and James Fountain "Seven Day Lover" went for £150 ish when John Manship bought it.

 

PLease correct me if I am wrong as in reality it doesn't matter, it just one the many anecdotes form the past....

I think the £150 for James Fountian was later around 76ish.............

 

Dave F

I think the £150 for James Fountian was later around 76ish.............

 

Dave F

 

Cheers Dave, it is amazing how lose we track of time. I thought I might be wrong on the JM story even though I was around at the time. But that's time for you it screws with our memories!

Wasn't James Fountain played/sold for loads well before Gwen Owens was first played? I remember hearing JF at the Pier and hearing JM had paid £175 for it - don't remember G.O. until much later.

 

Though my memory isn't all it used to be...

So what one was used on the mid 70s styrene Monarch pressings,as these don`t jump

so was it done from the later 2nd press or from else where?.

 

Dave f.....

 When Sam played it in the 70s it didn't always skip ... I guess they just played it through to get a good enough recording to bootleg it

 

Andy

Might be - used to be about getting hold of records you liked, whatever the condition - but if mint records are now trophy pieces for rich people - so be it.

  

I'm talking about the collectors who collect the sort of stuff JM auctions.Not us mere mortals.

Personally, I love records that have writing on them as it gives some history to them, I don't really care about condition either, I'm not buying them as an investment I want to hear what's in the grooves. Pristine, perfect records are boring and these days likely to be boots anyway.

As for people who buy off JM's auctions, some of them must just be lazy rich people - record comes up so just buy it whatever it costs. Completely hacks me off, not envy but just because its such a shit way of collecting. Look at the price of The Ethics - I want my baby back - who but some lazy rich pollock would shell out 450+ for that?

I might do a mix of my crackly records :-)

Always preferred  " Mystery Man "  myself 

Wasn't James Fountain played/sold for loads well before Gwen Owens was first played? I remember hearing JF at the Pier and hearing JM had paid £175 for it - don't remember G.O. until much later.

 

Though my memory isn't all it used to be...

Yes your right it was £170 for JF,then a few weeks later it came out on Uk Cream label.....

 When Sam played it in the 70s it didn't always skip ... I guess they just played it through to get a good enough recording to bootleg it

 

Andy

Cheers Andy,i was going to St Ives from 75 onwards,i know it was a big play there for Sam,but can`t remember if it jumped or not....

That's my copy of Mystery Man. Tried to sell here it but no takers. It is a good record but not a good dance record.

Always preferred  " Mystery Man "  myself 

As far as I can remember she'd had them since the 60s .. meaning she got them at the time of the release and had kept them (obviously) until then .. in other words a contemporaneous acquisition

 

Andy

 

 "contemporaneous acquisition"  LOL 

collecting Detroit I must admit I never heard of that 2nd press story and would like to know more. When were they done, slightly after the first run and in order to replace them missprinted 45s or later ? Is it another case of the artist or producer or whoever re-pressing them years later trying to meet demand ?

Obviously the same stampers have been used so they seem to be "original" ? I used to have a non-jumping but towards the end distorted issue which needed to be faded out towards the end when playing out. I still have a WD thats neither jumping nor off-centre. I am just saying this because JM names three different original releases incl. the WD copies that are off-centre. If my WD isnt off-center I am sure there must be more like that which would add a fourth release of "JSYWAN" ?

Isnt it amazing how stories like this keep cropping up and get a explained half a century after they have been recorded and decades after the first started collecting them precious 45s ? really amazes me, its good!

 

This is very curious,I am wondering the same -when were these 2nd re-presses made and by whom?How many were re-pressed??

And also, did'nt Tim Brown have a W/D that was said to be perfect and played without jumping?

I seem to recollect someone saying he sold it for £3,500.

 

Yes it is amazing some of these stories that crop up,why would GO actually hoard copies of this particular record,given the complicated pressings saga and the fact it was a commercial flop?

 

Would I like a copy...? A real one,yes,most definately     

That's my copy of Mystery Man. Tried to sell here it but no takers. It is a good record but not a good dance record.

 

I would pay the $1 if you still have it...

Some interesting debate here .... There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the copy is a 100% genuine original made at the time of release ... I believe it was a replacement manufacturing run given the first batch were faulty and that would have happened pretty quickly.

There is no possibility in my mind that it is a pressing that was done years after. I had one for a while and everything about it was right

Andy

I had a w.d which was centered correctly and played perfectly, unfortunately in one of my dumb moments i let it go to australia . The gentleman who bought it is on here and he should be able to say what matrix number it has

Some interesting debate here .... There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the copy is a 100% genuine original made at the time of release ... I believe it was a replacement manufacturing run given the first batch were faulty and that would have happened pretty quickly.

There is no possibility in my mind that it is a pressing that was done years after. I had one for a while and everything about it was right

Andy

 

You too,left out : 2nd re-press.

Why?

Interesting topic, but does this just not show that the OVO debate can now sometimes be taken to ridiculous extremes?

 

Would you rather have a defective record which doesn't play properly or the legitimate replacement pressed by the label at the time?

 

The subsequent manufacture of 60s discs was possibly far more common than you'd think at first glance. Last week my brother came round to look at records and only when we closely looked at two copies of Jerry Ganey "Just A Fool" on Verve did we realise that each copy had a different master number (one used copy L85 and the other mint and L85=2).

 

Is the mint 'later' press now worthless? I'd argue not, but judging by some of the posts above some clearly think that's not the case.

 

But back on topic: can anyone pin down Gwen Owens to a particular first spin at a 'nighter? The Who and Where would be very interesting to me.

Edited March 17, 201312 yr by garethx

You too,left out : 2nd re-press.

Why?

 

I'm sorry to appear dim but I don't understand what question you are asking or what response you want from me  .. happy to elaborate if needed when I know what you're seeking

 

Andy

I'm sorry to appear dim but I don't understand what question you are asking or what response you want from me  .. happy to elaborate if needed when I know what you're seeking

 

Andy

Was struggling with that post too Andy

 

 

..And also, did'nt Tim Brown have a W/D that was said to be perfect and played without jumping?

I seem to recollect someone saying he sold it for £3,500.

if thats true -and I have no reason to doubt- its almost answering one of my questions...in that there are more WD`s around that are not off-center and/or jumping. which again would tend to make it most likely to be a fact that there are four different releases/presses around ?  

 

Marc - what is your matrix on the WD - is it the 344 matrix that JM mentions, or is it the other one please?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Hi Richard, the matrix reads "SI-C 10003 A SIDE 344" on "JSYWAN" and "SI-C 10003 B SIDE 344" on the flipside.

I'm a bit out of my depth here but just because some of the WD's were off centre surely doesn't mean that they all were even on the same run?

 

 

Swifty

 

I'm a bit out of my depth here but just because some of the WD's were off centre surely doesn't mean that they all were even on the same run?

 

 

Swifty

 

haha, no youre possibly not...its just the absolutism used in manships list of releases that clearly states "1. distorted issue, 2.re-press that plays fine plus

3.WD`s that are slightly off-center".. which reads like all the WD around are off-center.

  

Hi Richard, the matrix reads "SI-C 10003 A SIDE 344" on "JSYWAN" and "SI-C 10003 B SIDE 344" on the flipside.

 

Cheers Marc

 

That makes it a JM option 2 then according to matrix details - proving your point I think.

 

 

JM auction listing details:

 

For clarity on the 3 original Velgo 002 presses are as follows:

 

JUST SAY YOU’RE WANTED VELGO 002 SI-C10003 matrix SI-C10003 matrix first press, withdrawn and destroyed, as the mastering deemed flawed - recording skips.

JUST SAY YOU’RE WANTED VELGO 002 DJ SI-C10003 a-side 344 matrix. Promo copies play slightly off-center

JUST SAY YOU’RE WANTED VELGO 002 SI-C10003 a-side 344 matrix was the “immediate” replacement release with re-mastering which plays correctly.

 

This suggests there were no demos on the first damaged press that skips - I thought there were?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

  

haha, no youre possibly not...its just the absolutism used in manships list of releases that clearly states "1. distorted issue, 2.re-press that plays fine plus

3.WD`s that are slightly off-center".. which reads like all the WD around are off-center.

Phew !   I don't usually comment on threads of 45's over £14.99 Marc !!!

 

 

Swifty

Dunno if this has been mentioned before....When I hear G.O. I think of this bass line - I think the JSYW(aN) writers may have had this way back in their minds.....

 

wow !thats awesome, never noticed that before

It's not that similar - only the first 5 or 6 notes - you would never get it anywhere near a copyright claim 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

has anyone looked at the skipping copy under a scope? I've seen mismanufactured 45s where the grooves go nowhere and it's impossible to fix, but if there's an obstruction in the grooves in the plates you can actually fix it.

has anyone looked at the skipping copy under a scope? I've seen mismanufactured 45s where the grooves go nowhere and it's impossible to fix, but if there's an obstruction in the grooves in the plates you can actually fix it.

 

Bet that needs a steady hand Bob 

 

Cheers

 

Richard 

You too,left out : 2nd re-press.

Why?

How can a pressing to replace a faulty withdrawn run be considered a re-issue?

Also, you keep saying "2nd re-press" - there was an initial faulty pressing, which was then (as you say) re-pressed. A "2nd re-press" would constitute a third pressing after this?

I find it hard to believe that somebody would split hairs with someone who spends so much time and effort, tirelessly tracking artists and vinyl and sharing their information, such as Andy Rix does. We would all do well to show a little more respect...

Tell 'em Swifty !

 

I only collect the very first record pressed in the initial run.  You can tell these by the mark in the run-out groove where the cyclonic distributor encounters the manifold peg regulator causing a warp matrix flux signature.

 

I laugh at all you collectors of what, after that first 45 off the press, are merely re-issues to my mind.

 

Im going for a lie-down.

 

ROD

Bet that needs a steady hand Bob 

 

Cheers

 

Richard 

 

not that hard to fix skips, and my hands aren't that steady

Always preferred  " Mystery Man "  myself 

I currently own that exact scanned poster - signed by the lady herself! 

Maybe some can enlighten me on my copy then, see I have what I considered to be a boot, the person who I got it off said they bought it as an original in the 80's but his record collector friends queried its original-ness and he was never sure and sold it as a boot to me, however would be interested just to clarify so: 

It's styrene, the matrix number reads V0-002-A JJ MR ∆102402

Is it a stone-cold pressed in Wigan on the night boot, or is it one of these 70's Los Angeles Re-presses (or hopefully a long lost original pressing that's worth a few grand! )

Maybe some can enlighten me on my copy then, see I have what I considered to be a boot, the person who I got it off said they bought it as an original in the 80's but his record collector friends queried its original-ness and he was never sure and sold it as a boot to me, however would be interested just to clarify so: 

It's styrene, the matrix number reads V0-002-A JJ MR ∆102402

Is it a stone-cold pressed in Wigan on the night boot, or is it one of these 70's Los Angeles Re-presses (or hopefully a long lost original pressing that's worth a few grand! )

 

Bootleg.

Maybe some can enlighten me on my copy then, see I have what I considered to be a boot, the person who I got it off said they bought it as an original in the 80's but his record collector friends queried its original-ness and he was never sure and sold it as a boot to me, however would be interested just to clarify so: 

It's styrene, the matrix number reads V0-002-A JJ MR ∆102402

Is it a stone-cold pressed in Wigan on the night boot, or is it one of these 70's Los Angeles Re-presses (or hopefully a long lost original pressing that's worth a few grand! )

think thats the 70`s monach boot  goes for around £30

incidentally someone mentioned done from the same stampers...that doesnt mean that much.....you only got to look at that 1st gold batch of four voices

Always preferred  " Mystery Man "  myself 

 

Really? Jeez    

Interesting thread

 

Now let me get this straight, Gwen recorded the record, which was pressed but found to have a fault, it was then pressed again without the fault which some are claiming is not an original?

 

What would you expect them to do? Continue pressing the record with a bloody fault?

 

You're on drugs you lot

Ahh ok - boot it is then!

I supose it's a replacement and therefore an original this is sticky a mate of mine paid £1,800.00 recently for a copie of the Ivories on wand this is the second issue and goes for far more than the original .It's very hard finding a reasonable level of acuracy as to the value of some of these thing's really regards blah blah.

If you press a record and it skips..so not fit for purpose thats a reject surely!!....so you rectify the mistake and press the saleble record....which is then offered for sale, that is the first issue

Edited March 23, 201312 yr by gordon russell

Always preferred  " Mystery Man "  myself 

 

Me too mate - fantastic record 

 

Richard