Northern Soul Film

[Wiggyflat]

Good point.

These kids were almost certainly from London - 60-odd miles up the A12.

Not sure whether the hats would have stayed on all the way or were just for posing around the town.

But bear in mind these would have been mainly 150's - LI series I & II - Vespa Sportiques and what have you. They would have struggled to do much over 55 mph and two-up even less.

MB

Think the hats had chinstraps so they never flew off. Think they had to wear them all the time even patrolling around town.Don't think the cops ever went 2 up either.If they did in those days they wouldn't be bragging about it. No equal opportunities then,...........

[Guest]

The creative ideas that were previously outlined in this posting have now been edited But were however subject to copyright!

Edited March 18, 2010 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

Maybe the sanctimoniousness of the older guys regarding this undoubtedly historic appearance is due to the fact that their perceived seniority at the time, all of 20 years, led them them foolishly to believe they were guardians of the sacred flame, just like the Ulams in Quest For Fire. Bugger me, them goji berries are having an effect on me.

Just been to see THE WOLFMAN and that, coupled with six bottles of San Miguel is probably starting to affect my perspective too!

[Guest becchio]

Chorley that was brilliant . Wow .

[Guest Simon]

Chorley that was brilliant . Wow .

Seconded, very impressive!

Simon

[Guest Simon]

Anyone remember 'Coast to Coast' with Lenny Henry, think it was an hour long BBC film thing, Pete S will confirm.

Now that wasn't NS but mainly Tamla but i thought that was superb, if this new film was anything as good as that i'd be happy.

Simon

[Steve G]

Anyone remember 'Coast to Coast' with Lenny Henry, think it was an hour long BBC film thing, Pete S will confirm.

Now that wasn't NS but mainly Tamla but i thought that was superb, if this new film was anything as good as that i'd be happy.

Simon

Yes made in 85 shown in 86. It was a 90 minute film. It was a road movie essentially but eminently watchable and very enjoyable.

But that's my point, it started off with a club called the Sink club in Liverpol and it bore no resemblance to any clubs I've ever seen or a scene that I recognised. And despite that it still made for a really good film. So let's not condemn this new film because the holdalls aren't real 70s ones, or the filmmakers didn't rebuild a complete replica of the Wigan Casino on the back lot at Elstree Studios. Let's wait and see what it's like and judge it as a film, not as a historical reincarnation of how NS was in the 70s.

[Guest Simon]

Yes made in 85 shown in 86. It was a 90 minute film. It was a road movie essentially but eminently watchable and very enjoyable.

But that's my point, it started off with a club called the Sink club in Liverpol and it bore no resemblance to any clubs I've ever seen or a scene that I recognised. And despite that it still made for a really good film. So let's not condemn this new film because the holdalls aren't real 70s ones, or the filmmakers didn't rebuild a complete replica of the Wigan Casino on the back lot at Elstree Studios. Let's wait and see what it's like and judge it as a film, not as a historical reincarnation of how NS was in the 70s.

I guess the difference is though Steve CTC wasn't trying to be anything connected to any particular scene, it was just a road movie that happened to have Tamla as it's backdrop.

This new film has the directors etc on this site trying to ensure it's as authentic NS wise as possible, they apparently really care what people on here think, the CTC guys just went ahead & made a film & didn't worry about any external forces.

Must admit if i was making a film about NS i'd be interested in peoples views on here but it wouldn't personally make any difference to me doing it, saying that i have lived & breathed it for a considerable number of years so would be fairly confident in getting it right.

Simon

[Steve G]

I guess the difference is though Steve CTC wasn't trying to be anything connected to any particular scene, it was just a road movie that happened to have Tamla as it's backdrop.

This new film has the directors etc on this site trying to ensure it's as authentic NS wise as possible, they apparently really care what people on here think, the CTC guys just went ahead & made a film & didn't worry about any external forces.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Well I think it is good that the directors are trying to get it as right as they can. But it's still a film at the end of the day and they shouldn't get too hung up about the wide variety of opinion on here.

Re CTC is specifically featured a soul club in Liverpool, and two soul music DJs who loved their records, basically on the run from everyone so far more than just a Tamla soundtrack really. You should try and track down a copy it's very good, and there's a good actress in it too

Steve

[Guest Simon]

Hi Simon,

Well I think it is good that the directors are trying to get it as right as they can. But it's still a film at the end of the day and they shouldn't get too hung up about the wide variety of opinion on here.

Re CTC is specifically featured a soul club in Liverpool, and two soul music DJs who loved their records, basically on the run from everyone so far more than just a Tamla soundtrack really. You should try and track down a copy it's very good, and there's a good actress in it too

Steve

I've got a copy Steve, haven't watched it for a couple of years though, must dig it out & see it again.

Simon

[Little-stevie]

I've got a copy Steve, haven't watched it for a couple of years though, must dig it out & see it again.

Simon

never seen it, could i have a look after you Simon, will look after it...

The Sink angle would be of interest, we did some filming there in the 90s and included the original owner and some of the punters from the 60s..

As Steve said, lets just wait and see now with regards to this film, maybe some more milage in this if any connected to the film want to have a word but that seems a long shot, they have kept a real distance since coming on the forum before filming..... The silence speaks volumes....

Very impressive script from Chorley soul, something real in that......

[Guest proudlove]

never seen it, could i have a look after you Simon, will look after it...

The Sink angle would be of interest, we did some filming there in the 90s and included the original owner and some of the punters from the 60s..

As Steve said, lets just wait and see now with regards to this film, maybe some more milage in this if any connected to the film want to have a word but that seems a long shot, they have kept a real distance since coming on the forum before filming..... The silence speaks volumes....

Very impressive script from Chorley soul, something real in that......

Superb script from C/S........I doff my cap to you sir!

As an old cynic I am not convinced by this film,but I won't condem/praise it until I've seen it.

Steve

[Geeselad]

say a film made in the 9ts about surfing in cornwall that had an excellent bit about northern in it. I can remember seeing Ion and people like Val palmer and tony smith a think in some scene with Sam Dees playing anyone know what it was called?

[Guest krawen]

say a film made in the 9ts about surfing in cornwall that had an excellent bit about northern in it. I can remember seeing Ion and people like Val palmer and tony smith a think in some scene with Sam Dees playing anyone know what it was called?

Blue Juice or something like that.

[Guest]

and there's a good actress in it too

Steve

Could never be as good as you-know-who.......

Anyway, I am learning from this thread big time...... in fact it's wonderful stuff to read for this Soul virgin......

[Maark]

Er........Brilliant script Choleysoul!

Edited on request.....

Edited March 18, 2010 by Maark

[Mark S]

Beats me why we need any film about it in the first place nobody outside the northern scene cares and we already know so whats the point ?

Its an ill concieved idea that wont make a jot of difference thankfully .

If the film makers are on here and they are bothered about what a few people on here are saying then they dont have much confidence in it either , says it all really .

[Ian Dewhirst]

Simon, I used to rewrite treatments and film scripts professionally, this subject deserves more...

For example...

A young guy, carrying serious social baggage....20 years old, fresh out of youth custody gets left his late UNCLE'S records, a box of old vinyl...At first he's disinterested, ignoring the poignant note left with them....his life is in a rut, he's fell out with his mates, is pissed off with shitty dance scenes and commercialised Hip Hop....He does not want to get lured back into crime and needs something real in his life...He meets an older guy through chance, an-ex Junkie, now reformed and a former Torch or Casino face and shows him the record box....The guy starts to talk, about the scene and the records, what they mean, what they represent....

Something real, something special. Somehow, the old face's story strikes a chord with the boy....The old Casino footage is utilised in this manner, blurry, symbolic of memories, no need to recreate, let the real stuff do that job and then go inside a good venue on todays scene for the up to date stuff....

A weekender like Cleethorpes, the older guy takes him...A meeting with a veteran BLACK AMERICAN soul Artist, somebody who did a bit of time himself back in Detroit or Chicago but then found the music...other characters emerge and touch his life....It's a rites of passage weekend, the start of a journey....3 days that will change this boy's life forever....

Or will it...

This is a boy who needs a purpose,a focus, something to light a spark inside him and allow him to see the world with hope and faith....Back home, on the streets of Moss Side and Salford, the forces of street crime and urban culture are still threatening to consume his life...Is this new found passion enough to channel this kid's destiny? Can this forgotten music from another time - from another struggle - literally save this young misfit's Soul? Are his new friendships and relationships strong enough to drag him out of a physical and mental 21st Century UK 'ghetto'...

Is he going to end up back behind bars or behind the decks....

Straight off the top of my head and needs refining but that type of angle would have given you a much more powerful premise for drama and it would have placed the scene in contemporary relevance whilst still examining universal themes and of course the history of Northern Soul per se.

All the nostalgia stuff could have been handled via recollections and sub-text. Scene characters and faces could have been recruited to play cameos. Importantly, some of the younger people on the scene now could have had input. It could have been something powerful and potent.

Not 'Coronation Street' on Speed and bolstered simply by the brilliant music which will not be given anywhere near the visually dramatic accompaniment it deserves.

I am not surprised to see that riduculous John Inman British Caledonian style style bag on the poster. Vile and cheapskate tack. British Directors have a knack of discarding crucial detail in these type of films - as when ROGER DALTREY as JOHN McVICAR supposedly back in 67/68 was handed a pair of Lime Green and luminous blue Adidas Trainers....Because they were not usually involved with the subject matter personally, they fail to grasp how important aspects like this are to punters.

It will be shit. Guaranteed. No awards. Cheapo DVD racks very quickly.

Oh well, end of rant.

PS - Copyright rcfms 2010

Right, I'm gonna blag that LOL!

Nice one Chorley. Can you get the script knocked out in the next 3 months mate and I'll drag Puttnam out of retirement to get behind this! Mind you last time I saw him he was stumbling down the steps at the Wag!

Ian D

[Tabs]

I was going to stay off this thread.

But Rich that was just superb.

[

Edited March 18, 2010 by Tabs

[Guest]

the reality is it is a film - and with a film it is never going to be a totally factually accurate representation.

It's just a film, it'll either be good, watchable, entertaining or it won't. I am not convinced people will see something set in the 70s as being "what NS is all about" today

Don't mean to meddle in the discussion as such, but even I can see Steve's perspective. It is how I - again, a Soul newbie - would watch this film. I might get into the Music as a result of watching this film if I hadn't already, but in no way would I regard it as historical, factual material. I would view it as a story inspired by what's really going on in the 'scene', as you call it. A story, perhaps or by chance based on true facts. And I might be entertained by it. Or I might not.

Some of you sound so protective of said facts the film would be based on....... but what do I know........

Happy discussing all.

[Mike]

say a film made in the 9ts about surfing in cornwall that had an excellent bit about northern in it. I can remember seeing Ion and people like Val palmer and tony smith a think in some scene with Sam Dees playing anyone know what it was called?

pimp your archives post

BLUE JUICE FILM CLIP -

[Steve G]

Beats me why we need any film about it in the first place nobody outside the northern scene cares and we already know so whats the point ?

On that basis no one would ever make a film about anything.....

No one would ever paint a picture.......

No one would put on a play........

No one would make a record.......

Steve

[Ian Dewhirst]

On that basis no one would ever make a film about anything.....

No one would ever paint a picture.......

No one would put on a play........

No one would make a record.......

Steve

And no one would write poems......

Ian D

[Guest]

On that basis no one would ever make a film about anything.....

No one would ever paint a picture.......

No one would put on a play........

No one would make a record.......

Steve

Exactement!

My previous post was a direct reaction to Mark, saying "Beats me why we need any film about it in the first place nobody outside the northern scene cares and we already know so whats the point ?" and I felt addressed by that last bit. Well I do, actually, Mark....... and furthermore, what's with the "need"? Could we please replace that by "want"? Please let the people outside the Northern scene think for themselves........

We WANT films......

We WANT paintings.......

We WANT plays.......

We WANT records........

That's the 'point' of this film, Mark.......

[Guest James Trouble]

On that basis no one would ever make a film about anything.....

No one would ever paint a picture.......

No one would put on a play........

No one would make a record.......

Steve

I think Steve and others have a fair point, it's not a documentary.

No one person's perspective is the same as anothers. And often a true image is never as anyone really perseves it anyway.

Perception, in it's original latin meaning can be concidered the action of taking possession, as well as obtaining an understanding about a subject. Perhaps that is why some find someone elses perception of the Northern Soul Scene expressed in a piece of film, art or music as offensive. It is not as most perceive it, it is not well understood by those who seek to take possession of it, and when the perception is expressed in the piece of art the interpretation is easily misinterpreted by those viewing it. A bit like chinese whispers.

That aside, no matter what your perspective, $hite is still $hite, no matter where you're looking at it from. And it may be offensive $hite if it is misrepresenting something that is deeply cared about by those with a true perceptive of the subject.

On the other hand, if the end result is a great piece of film, and the misrepresentation is not offensive, what's the problem?

Time will tell...

Edited March 18, 2010 by James Trouble

[Guest]

And no one would write poems......

Ian D

And no one would make Soul. There is no 'point' in (Soul) Music but we want it. Eh Steve?

Sounds full circle to me...... take a breath, folks, it's just a film........

[Guest]

On that basis no one would ever make a film about anything.....

No one would ever paint a picture.......

No one would put on a play........

No one would make a record.......

Steve

Very astute and bang on! The thing is with doing a retro film about the Northern scene is you lose so much of the stories legacy....By setting it in 1975, it's just another 'teen' film and does not acknowledge the remarkable story of the scene and how it has influenced people's whole lives, not just their teenage years. With a contemporary setting you open up the dramatic landscape and flashbacks and recollections link you with the past and the continuing existence of something which has changed many, many lives....I am baffled that people have failed to grasp what a rich dramatic tapestry lies behind this story, but then again, that's what you get when people who don't love something themselves are given the job of screenwriting a film about something in real life...

The screenplay of 'On the Waterfront' was so fantastic because it was written by a man who deeply loved fighters and fighting. He undertood the characters and the landscape they occupied and this was instrinsic in the creation of the story and the stark sense of realism that haunted it. It is the job of drama to make sense of real life but when you leave something like Northern Soul back in the 70s, it cannot make sense of what the subject really represents, because 80 per cent of the story has unfolded in the decades following that and it is that lifelong journey and the strength of these passions

over time that makes this interesting territory for drama.

Anyway, too much from me on this subject now.

Edited March 18, 2010 by chorleysoul

[Little-stevie]

I think Steve and others have a fair point, it's not a documentary.

No one person's perspective is the same as anothers. And often a true image is never as anyone really perseves it anyway.

Perception, in it's original latin meaning can be concidered the action of taking possession, as well as obtaining an understanding about a subject. Perhaps that is why some find someone elses perception of the Northern Soul Scene expressed in a piece of film, art or music as offensive. It is not as most perceive it, it is not well understood by those who seek to take possession of it, and when the perception is expressed in the piece of art the interpretation is easily misinterpreted by those viewing it. A bit like chinese whispers.

That aside, no matter what your perspective, $hite is still $hite, no matter where you're looking at it from. And it may be offensive $hite if it is misrepresenting something that is deeply cared about by those with a true perceptive of the subject.

On the other hand, if the end result is a great piece of film, and the misrepresentation is not offensive, what's the problem? Time will tell...

The golden question on many subjects when talking about shite, one mans shite is another mans apple from the garden of Eden...

The only way is to judge it when it comes out, we will soon get a feel from members on here as what they think of it...

Edited March 18, 2010 by little-stevie

[Guest James Trouble]

The golden question on many subjects when talking about shite, one mans shite is another mans apple from the garden of Eden...

I don't buy that. I think it's pretty widely accepted that some people have a better grasp of subjects than others.

People's perceptions can be wrong.

Perception is about obtaining an understanding based on an interplay of culture, experiences and interpretation of the subject. Of course some people are better placed to judge than others.

A dog might think that rabbit $hite is good to eat because it's there and looks a bit like dog food, but we all knows it's still $hite and a bone is a better snack.

Edited March 18, 2010 by James Trouble

[Guest]

Exactement!

My previous post was a direct reaction to Mark, saying "Beats me why we need any film about it in the first place nobody outside the northern scene cares and we already know so whats the point ?" and I felt addressed by that last bit. Well I do, actually, Mark....... and furthermore, what's with the "need"? Could we please replace that by "want"? Please let the people outside the Northern scene think for themselves........

We WANT films......

We WANT paintings.......

We WANT plays.......

We WANT records........

That's the 'point' of this film, Mark.......

A the end of the day, without getting too highbrow, what we know as 'Northern Soul' is ultimately Modern Art, the music itself is a defined and bona-fide art form and it is great art...

Great art should be celebrated, not hid away as the property of an elite 'few'. The story of what Black America created and how it affected the lives of working class people in Britain over the next 40 years is a fantastic one. Which is why it should be chronicled but when we go to read books for example on the subject, we are going to automatically want to read stuff from people like Neil Rushton, from people we know were there...who care...why should Film, the most powerful of all contemporary medium's be different? The travesty of film making is that so many important subjects get thrown to the wolf of misinterpretation and exploitation, because those given the privilege of making them, do not actually LOVE the subject matter of their examinations...

That is why so many awful movies get made about supposed 'true' stories or real life scenes, events etc.

[Guest]

I don't buy that. I think it's pretty widely accepted that some people have a better grasp of subjects than others.

People's perceptions can be wrong.

Perception is about obtaining an understanding based on an interplay of culture, experiences and interpretation of the subject. Of course some people are better placed to judge than others.

A dog might think that rabbit $hite is good to eat because it's there and looks a bit like dog food, but we all knows it's still $hite and a bone is a better snack.

I think we are actually in agreement on this subject JAMES!

[Guest]

The golden question on many subjects when talking about shite, one mans shite is another mans apple from the garden of Eden...

Why do I feel so much cynicism in here?

[stevemcmahon]

A the end of the day, without getting too highbrow, what we know as 'Northern Soul' is ultimately Modern Art, the music itself is a defined and bona-fide art form and it is great art...

Great art should be celebrated, not hid away as the property of an elite 'few'. The story of what Black America created and how it affected the lives of working class people in Britain over the next 40 years is a fantastic one. Which is why it should be chronicled but when we go to read books for example on the subject, we are going to automatically want to read stuff from people like Neil Rushton, from people we know were there...who care...why should Film, the most powerful of all contemporary medium's be different? The travesty of film making is that so many important subjects get thrown to the wolf of misinterpretation and exploitation, because those given the privilege of making them, do not actually LOVE the subject matter of their examinations...

That is why so many awful movies get made about supposed 'true' stories or real life scenes, events etc.

Very good points, Chorleysoul - even with decent budgets, you only have to look @what Hollywood does to real-life stories! Sometimes it even goes as far as re-writing history FFS! I've always had a problem with that, especially when it's passed off as 'artistic license'. Some things just are as they were & best left alone.

BTW, the In-Crowd by Stuart Russell & Mike Ritson was a great book on the subject & Keith Rylatt's Groovesville USA on Detroit - two shameless plugs for friends just to illustrate your point about books that posses a heckuva lot of integrity..

[Ian Dewhirst]

Why do I feel so much cynicism in here?

Whadaya expect Isabel? This is the fun bit...........

Ian D

[Guest MBarrett]

Earlier today came across the word VERISIMILITUDE

Had to look it up in the dictionary and definitions include: "The trait of seeming truthful or appearing to be real. From the Latin veri similis, like the truth"

and "Refers to the extent to which drama appears to copy offstage reality."

So, seems it's the VERISIMILITUDE of this film we're discussing - without even knowing it!

Must remember to drop that one in the conversation next time I'm down the pub!!

MB

[Guest]

Whadaya expect Isabel? This is the fun bit...........

Ian D

Oh I see..... lol....... just don't always like the atmosphere in here.......

[Guest]

Oh I see..... lol....... just don't always like the atmosphere in here.......

This is quite an upbeat, positive debate compared to certain others that take place! Cynicism and Northern Soul, nah never.......lol

[Guest]

Cynicism and Northern Soul, nah never.......lol

I rest my case......

[Simsy]

Oh I see..... lol....... just don't always like the atmosphere in here.......

Don't take this the wrong way, but why come in here then?

[Guest]

Very good points, Chorleysoul - even with decent budgets, you only have to look @what Hollywood does to real-life stories! Sometimes it even goes as far as re-writing history FFS! I've always had a problem with that, especially when it's passed off as 'artistic license'. Some things just are as they were & best left alone.

BTW, the In-Crowd by Stuart Russell & Mike Ritson was a great book on the subject & Keith Rylatt's Groovesville USA on Detroit - two shameless plugs for friends just to illustrate your point about books that posses a heckuva lot of integrity..

Exactly....

We look for books from guys like that because we know they care about the subject - deeply.

Why the hell should we not demand the same criteria from Film Makers? Integrity of authorship usually goes a long way to guaranteeing a certain quality ratio in any art form. Film just seems to have a very wide license when it comes to entrusting treasured subjects to people, with no historical attachment or affections and that goes way beyond Northern Soul!

[Guest]

Er........Brilliant script Choleysoul!

Edited on request.....

Cheers Mate lol!

[Zed1]

even with decent budgets, you only have to look @what Hollywood does to real-life stories!

Just imagine if Hollywood did get hold of this script......

The intro would proberbly go like (accompanied by the instro of Frank wilson).....

"In 1973 a crack Northern Soul DJ unit was sent to prison by a Southern court

for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a

maximum security stockade to Wigan underground. Today,

still wanted by the Soul Police, they survive as Northern soul promoters.

If you have a problem - if no one else can help - and if you can find it - maybe you can go to..... the Wigan Shopping Mall....."

Edited March 18, 2010 by Teapot

[Guest Dave Turner]

Just imagine if Hollywood did get hold of this script......

The intro would proberbly go like (accompanied by the instro of Frank wilson).....

"In 1973 crack Northern Soul DJ unit was sent to prison by a Southern court

for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a

maximum security stockade to Wigan underground. Today,

still wanted by the Soul Police, they survive as Northern soul promoters.

If you have a problem - if no one else can help - and if you can find it - maybe you can go to..... the Wigan Shopping Mall....."

Can't see a problem with that, it's only a film

[Rhino]

Just imagine if Hollywood did get hold of this script......

The intro would proberbly go like (accompanied by the instro of Frank wilson).....

"In 1973 crack Northern Soul DJ unit was sent to prison by a Southern court

for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a

maximum security stockade to Wigan underground. Today,

still wanted by the Soul Police, they survive as Northern soul promoters.

If you have a problem - if no one else can help - and if you can find it - maybe you can go to..... the Wigan Shopping Mall....."

now that made me laugh

[Zed1]

Can't see a problem with that, it's only a film

Maybe Arkwright could play the Role of Hannibal ..... " I love it when a PPPPPPPPPPlan comes together"....

[Guest Dave Turner]

Maybe Arkwright could play the Role of Hannibal ..... " I love it when a PPPPPPPPPPlan comes together"....

Fer fer fer ff fer fff fer sod off

[macca]

Earlier today came across the word VERISIMILITUDE

Had to look it up in the dictionary and definitions include: "The trait of seeming truthful or appearing to be real. From the Latin veri similis, like the truth"

and "Refers to the extent to which drama appears to copy offstage reality."

So, seems it's the VERISIMILITUDE of this film we're discussing - without even knowing it!

Must remember to drop that one in the conversation next time I'm down the pub!!

MB

In colloquial Spanish, 'me es inverosimil' is the equivalent of 'I don't care one way or the other'.

The things one learns on here...

[Zed1]

Just imagine if Hollywood did get hold of this script......

The intro would proberbly go like (accompanied by the instro of Frank wilson).....

"In 1973 a crack Northern Soul DJ unit was sent to prison by a Southern court

for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a

maximum security stockade to Wigan underground. Today,

still wanted by the Soul Police, they survive as Northern soul promoters.

If you have a problem - if no one else can help - and if you can find it - maybe you can go to..... the Wigan Shopping Mall....."

Cast of characters.......

Russ 'Do I love you' Winstanley played by Roy Chubby Brown

Kev 'The CD' Roberts played by Pete Waterman

Simon 'The boot' Soussan played by Simon Cowell

Richard 'The Playlist' Searling played by Jimmy Summerville (Cos he looks like him )

Hilda 'The Accountant' Woods played by Maggie Thatcher

Mike 'Stop Pushing at the back' Walker played by Denis Waterman

[Guest]

Don't take this the wrong way, but why come in here then?

No no, that's ok...... As I have said before, I am new to the world of Soul, and this thread gives a wonderful insight into the scene. And I love a good discussion, even if I'm not partaking. It's still a great thread but as I read on I felt that bit of cynicism here and there....... I was just surprised........ it was just a comment, that's all......... But now you know my reasons for coming in here......

[Guest proudlove]

Don't take this the wrong way, but why come in here then?

Because as the lady has said before................she just wants to learn...............so all you big nasty boys .........leave her alone.

Incidentally have you seen the latest visitor to the Stoke training ground..............should give Arseney Whiner palpitations.