Common Labels/rare Records.?

[Garethx]

I amongst us own this 45! It has to be in my top 5 deep soul records. Spine-tingling. I think No. 1 is the aforementioned Curtis King. Who amongst us owns THAT?

You are a lucky man. No Curtis King here, sadly.

[Steve G]

Another long-standing deep soul rarity is Eugene Evans "Too Much Pain" on Hollywood, a label where not much else seems to fall into the rare or scarce category.

I wonder what the consensus is on its rarity? One mint copy went through ebay last summer which I somehow missed. it was listed for the other side, which is also great and a reminder to use both titles in a saved search. That's one copy I've seen for open sale in practically twenty years of looking and begging for a copy.

It went for $272.

[Garethx]

^ A very good price for something of that quality.

[Steve G]

You are a lucky man. No Curtis King here, sadly.

nor here.

[John A]

now i have always found the opposite to be the case some records that look mint on styrene can hiss and crackle where as vinyl seems better

there are of course different qualities of styrene if you take harold melvin on Landa i don't think i have ever heard one what didn't hiss regardless of condition same with most MGM records Dottie Cambridge, April Stevens, Spider Turner etc all seem to be on inferior styrene compaired to Okeh quality

just an observation !

All those MGM's are vinyl surely where Okeh's generally were pressed in styrene.Anyone confirm?

Edited January 8, 2012 by John A

[Garethx]

Yes. There is a later press of the Spyder Turner on styrene but the first press and all the other titles are vinyl. MGM pressed very high quality vinyl too.

[John A]

Thanks Gareth, thought I was having a mad sunday night moment and was gonna have to revise my whole vinyl/styrene understanding.

[Guest allnightandy]

All those MGM's are vinyl surely where Okeh's generally were pressed in styrene.Anyone confirm?

nope mine are styrene and most early Okeh stuff is on vinyl

When i first replyed to this i thought you had it the wrong way round ?

Edited January 8, 2012 by allnightandy

[boba]

now i have always found the opposite to be the case some records that look mint on styrene can hiss and crackle where as vinyl seems better

i'm confused, how does that differ from what I have been saying? thanks.

[John A]

nope mine are styrene and most early Okeh stuff is on vinyl

When i first replyed to this i thought you had it the wrong way round ?

Okeh. I agree with what has all ready been said,,some styrene record can look trashed but still play clean,but once that distortion has burned into the groves they'r pretty well f**ked.

Edited January 8, 2012 by John A

[Garethx]

nope mine are styrene and most early Okeh stuff is on vinyl

When i first replyed to this i thought you had it the wrong way round ?

The odd Okeh 45 from their soul era is on a vinyl issue (off the top of my head I have Little Foxes and Major Harris, i.e. late titles) but the vast majority is on styrene.

MGM was noted for vinyl pressing and handled many outside clients in addition to its own labels. East coast Atlantic 45s and LPs for example were pressed at MGM in New York state until about 1966 when they moved production to Specialty in PA.

Edited January 8, 2012 by garethx

[Guest allnightandy]

The odd Okeh 45 from their soul era is on a vinyl issue (off the top of my head I have Little Foxes and Major Harris, i.e. late titles) but the vast majority is on styrene.

MGM was noted for vinyl pressing and handled many outside clients in addition to its own labels. East coast Atlantic 45s and LPs for example were pressed at MGM in New York state until about 1966 when they moved production to Specialty in PA.

What do you mean the odd 45 from their soul era it was a soul label in the main ok it had country and western and jazz and gospel but in the main i's a soul label from very early on it's 45's from their introduction in the 1951 were vinyl apart from the odd one over the years , they didn't go to styrene untill about 1963/64 and even then there are still vinyl records in the mix

[Guest allnightandy]

i'm confused, how does that differ from what I have been saying? thanks.

Sorry i was disagreeing with Weingarden who had your quote in his post my take is vinyl is far better and more durable than styrene

[Garethx]

Okeh was founded in 1918. The soul era was a comparatively short part of its history. Hence my comments.

[Pete Eccles]

Okeh was founded in 1918. The soul era was a comparatively short part of its history. Hence my comments.

Was just gonna say almost the same thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okeh_Records

[Guest allnightandy]

Okeh was founded in 1918. The soul era was a comparatively short part of its history. Hence my comments.

but the records back then were neither styrene or vilyl it was what i used to call bakelite which was actually shellac and crushed stone

i think styrene was probably a later invention than vinyl

[Guest allnightandy]

.

Edited January 9, 2012 by allnightandy

[Garethx]

but the records back then were neither styrene or vilyl it was what i used to call bakelite which was actually shellac and crushed stone

i think styrene was probably a later invention than vinyl

Styrene is as old as the 45 itself: just after WWII.

This is all in response to your assertion that the MGM records you listed were styrene, They're not, with the exception of that strange later issue of Spyder Turner with a Monarch delta number but with the classic black / multicoloured MGM label.

I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label.

The majority of what we think of as a classic Okeh soul single was issued on styrene alone, with a few exceptions. The examples I mentioned are records I own and I'm sure there must be isolated examples of others.

[boba]

Sorry i was disagreeing with Weingarden who had your quote in his post my take is vinyl is far better and more durable than styrene

cool, thanks for clarifying

[boba]

I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label.

I think my major lance delilah is styrene, I will check when i get home

[Kris Holmes]

i've been looking for a copy of LITTLE MACK-I NEED LOVE-CHECKER for 3 years at that time i posted it in the wants section and had replies saying it shouldn't be that hard to find! anybody got one to sell?!!!

you need to get your ebay game going, a copy went for around $40 last year. great 45.

[Guest allnightandy]

Styrene is as old as the 45 itself: just after WWII.

This is all in response to your assertion that the MGM records you listed were styrene, They're not, with the exception of that strange later issue of Spyder Turner with a Monarch delta number but with the classic black / multicoloured MGM label.

I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label.

The majority of what we think of as a classic Okeh soul single was issued on styrene alone, with a few exceptions. The examples I mentioned are records I own and I'm sure there must be isolated examples of others.

Well sorry mine are i have three spider turners , two dottie cambridges and an april stevens and i know what they are on !

[Guest allnightandy]

Styrene is as old as the 45 itself: just after WWII.

This is all in response to your assertion that the MGM records you listed were styrene, They're not, with the exception of that strange later issue of Spyder Turner with a Monarch delta number but with the classic black / multicoloured MGM label.

I agree with your point that Okeh 45s up until '63-'64 would have been vinyl, but seeing as there are practically no Okeh 'soul' 45s before then it's a moot point (The early Roy Lee Johnson 45s are probably on the 'soul' side of Blues Ballads but they are first and foremost blues records). Walter Jackson's earliest 45s were on the main Columbia label.

The majority of what we think of as a classic Okeh soul single was issued on styrene alone, with a few exceptions. The examples I mentioned are records I own and I'm sure there must be isolated examples of others.

The majority of what You class as classic ! not me i am an okeh demo collector and have many Soul records going back to the early1950 s

ok they are not 100 mph stompers but they are soul blues gospel and skiffle type content

[Garethx]

I can admit when I'm wrong. A quick scan of popsike reveals one Monarch-pressed, styrene copy of April Stevens. I'd take a wild guess that there are one hundred vinyl copies to every styrene one though.

[boba]

The majority of what You class as classic ! not me i am an okeh demo collector and have many Soul records going back to the early1950 s

ok they are not 100 mph stompers but they are soul blues gospel and skiffle type content

what's an example of a soul record from the early 1950s? thanks.

[boba]

Yep so is J Kelly & Premiers on Wand.

OH SNAP:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-Kelly-and-Premiers-She-Calls-Me-Baby-Signed-Sealed-NEW-and-unplayed-/110795275289?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item19cbe9bc19#ht_2014wt_805

maybe they have more copies but I've secured mine.

this seller (look at their listing) is the exact example of greedy jerks googling and popsiking stuff, finding stupid record collectors exaggerating comments, and putting stuff up for insane prices (or top popsike prices). if this thread existed last week this would have been $400.

[Guest DeeJay]

My main interest is in records from the 1960s, I don't know much about records from the 1970s, especially soul

Based on my experience and the comments here, I'll make a list of rare records on major labels. This list will include garage as well as soul, since I know more about certain garage records and why they are rare - might be useful. For now I am not going to mention stock or promo, in most cases promos will be much more available. This list is 1960s based (I don't consider anything after 1970) so almost every promo has both sides, avoiding the problem with 70s same side promos.

This is a first draft and will have a lot of missing items. Motown family labels not included, mainly because I don't know them well enough and there is way more info available on them from other sources

A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies

A&M - nothing rare. Terry Knight and Pack 45 listed in discogs has never been found.

ABC - Yum Yums is scarce. Some records listed in discogs that have never been found (Impressions, Styx (rock?)). Merry Dragons, a garage record, is somewhat scarce.

Amy - Lou Ragland is scarce. A couple scarce garage records (Big Boy Pete)

Atlantic - nothing rare

Atco - nothing rare

Bang - nothing rare, a couple records listed in discogs have never been found

Bell - Bernie Williams and Hytones are scarce, but I know three people who have found BW in the US in the past few years. A couple records listed in discogs that have never been found (Untamed, forgot the other)

Buddah - nothing rare

Cameo - nothing rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Shags)

Capitol - nothing rare

Chess - Wurds (garage) is scarce or rare

Columbia - Stereos 45 (early 45 by the Stereo Freeze group) is rare, withdrawn and supposedly only 50-100 copies distributed. Zombies (rock) 45 is rare.

Date - 1st release of Zombies "Time of the Season" is scarce

Decca - nothing rare

Diamond - nothing rare

Dot - I forget which soul 45s are scarce. Syndicate and Sherlocks "Skin of My Teeth" (both garage) are scarce. A couple more borderline scarce rock 45s

Dunhill - Willie Hutch is scarce

Epic - Remains (rock) 45 "I'm Talking About You" is rare

Fontana - can't think of anything rare

Imperial - nothing rare

King - Jr McCants "Try Me..." may be the rarest major label (non Motown) 45. Keith Murphy and Daze (garage) is scarce

Laurie - Tropics (garage) is scarce to rare

Liberty - nothing rare

Mercury - Stormie Wynters is rare. Rooks (garage) is scarce. Rooks 45 was only distributed in certain parts of the country.

MGM - nothing rare

Parkway - Chubby Checker is scarce. Vickie Baines "Country girl" is scarce or rare. Leather Boy (garage) is rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Blue Rondos)

Philips - can't think of anything

RCA - nothing rare

Roulette - East Coast Journeymen (rock) is scarce

Scepter - Johnny Maestro is scarce(?), Dickens (rock, aka NRBQ) is scarce, not as rare as claimed by some sources

Smash - Dowliners Sect (rock) is somewhat scarce. Underpriveledged (garage) is scarce

Swan - mispressed Tony Galla is scarce. The proper TG record is not especially rare. Just Two Guys (garage) is scarce.

Tower - Sam Williams is scarce.Don't recall artist but title (rock) "flashing sun things" is rare

20th Century - Cliff Butler and Doves (rock) is scarce-rare

Uptown - nothing rare

United Artists - nothing rare

Verve - One of the Velvet Underground 45s is scare or rare.

Wand - Walter Wilson, Ivorys are rare. Gentlemen Four and maybe a couple others are borderline scarce

Warner Brothers - David Bowie (rock) is scarce. Marque V (rock) is scarce

Nice list George With regards to MGM Dean Courtney issues are pretty rare

DJ

[Steve G]

OH SNAP:

https://www.ebay.com/...9#ht_2014wt_805

maybe they have more copies but I've secured mine.

this seller (look at their listing) is the exact example of greedy jerks googling and popsiking stuff, finding stupid record collectors exaggerating comments, and putting stuff up for insane prices (or top popsike prices). if this thread existed last week this would have been $400.

Ah good. It's actually a mis-press and was withdrawn and when you get it you'll find it has Roadshow matrix in the run out but a Wand label.....

Another toughie on Wand is Sylvia Jenkins doing Maxine Brown, but not nearly as well.

But I see what you mean about their prices for things they think are 'in demand'.

ATB Steve

Edited January 9, 2012 by Steve G

[Tony Smith]

I can admit when I'm wrong. A quick scan of popsike reveals one Monarch-pressed, styrene copy of April Stevens. I'd take a wild guess that there are one hundred vinyl copies to every styrene one though.

All my MGMs are vinyl, with 2 exceptions, Wakefield Sun "Trypt On Love" & Irma Routen "Sacrifice" which are both from 1970, read into that what you will.

[boba]

Ah good. It's actually a mis-press and was withdrawn and when you get it you'll find it has Roadshow matrix in the run out but a Wand label.....

Another toughie on Wand is Sylvia Jenkins doing Maxine Brown, but not nearly as well.

But I see what you mean about their prices for things they think are 'in demand'.

ATB Steve

probably not the rarest on the label but I've been unable to get a copy of ann bailey with the flip

[Steve G]

probably not the rarest on the label but I've been unable to get a copy of ann bailey with the flip

i have one so they are out there. On from the 60s I've never seen in Jesse Hill. Steve

[Sleeps45]

[Steve G]

Yes one of many rareish ones on Stang / All Plat. I got mine about 13 years ago now. Still play it occasionally.

[Sleeps45]

Yes one of many rareish ones on Stang / All Plat. I got mine about 13 years ago now. Still play it occasionally.

im still after this..2 great sides

[Sleeps45]

heres another

[dob]

you need to get your ebay game going, a copy went for around $40 last year. great 45.

i go on ebay every night!!!

[Sebastian]

Bobby Reed on Bell is a fairly common 45, there are at least 30-50 copies per year offered for sale on lists, eBay etc.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Sebastian

[boba]

Bobby Reed on Bell is a fairly common 45, there are at least 30-50 copies per year offered for sale on lists, eBay etc.

a rarer bobby reed is the bobby reed on abbott stock copy (with the flip), i haven't found one yet. probably some crappy song though.

[Steve G]

Oh I might have that, wil check later Bob.

Just remembered another scarce one on Buddah is an issue of Carol townes & Fifth Avenue with a B side.

[boba]

Oh I might have that, wil check later Bob.

Just remembered another scarce one on Buddah is an issue of Carol townes & Fifth Avenue with a B side.

some copies of the buddah record turned up last year, I bought a couple to resell, other than that it had previously took me a long time to get a copy and hopefully will not turn up again as I want to resell these copies! not the hardest one on buddah in my experience though, but difficult.

[Sleeps45]

rare 45 on buddah-Jeffrey Graham and the family connection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yuxAwH1d7E

[boba]

rare 45 on buddah-Jeffrey Graham and the family connection

yeah I still need that one actually. way to snitch on something i don't have yet ;;;

[Sleeps45]

yeah I still need that one actually. way to snitch on something i don't have yet ;;;

[boba]

i was just kidding FYI

[boba]

my friend talked to the family connection a while ago btw, jeffrey graham was not a member, he was just some kid they were backing

[Steve G]

some copies of the buddah record turned up last year, I bought a couple to resell, other than that it had previously took me a long time to get a copy and hopefully will not turn up again as I want to resell these copies! not the hardest one on buddah in my experience though, but difficult.

Ok thanks. That often happens someone turns up a box of 25 of something that was previously 'hardish'.

[Weingarden]

I think one of the scarcer '60s Wands is Gary Weston, Red Feather Basket/I Should Say Not. It's not soul, though...more like wild Coasters-style novelty R&B.

[Weingarden]

There's really nothing rare on Atlantic/Atco?

[Sleeps45]

i was just kidding FYI

I know that bob

my friend talked to the family connection a while ago btw, jeffrey graham was not a member, he was just some kid they were backing

so that is the same Family connection from Ct ?

[Steve G]

Oh yes there is.......Peggy Scott on Atco and darrow Fletcher issue for starters and I bet there's a few more as well when I get my thinking cap on.....