Common Labels/rare Records.?

[boba]

Ernie King is the same person as King Ernest / King Ernest Baker. That mercury 45 is his first record.

Also, I have actually seen more stock copies than promos of that but it's pretty rare so it's not like I've seen a lot of copies overall.

[Dysonsoul]

one more vaguely related thing: there is one more later sensations 45 -- Johnny Washington on De-lite. Totally awesome record and clearly the exact same group. I think only for the demanding man 45 did they stray from their typical style.

Again loosely related but never the less rellevent is the John Washington / Daddy Teddybear / Burn the callender / Sandwash , a Agency Studio Recording,certainly the same guy - one side great northern dancer and the flip phew a absolutely fantastic ballad ! in my experience very rare (got 4 copies around 8-10 years ago) sold the spares and haven't seen it since... my "Demanding Man " is nice and clean but like Phil mentions has the fault, a bloody fantastic record ,that comes either water damaged or poor shape ,i would doubt this got any plays at the time ,infact i reckon the label owner(s) would have influenced if not made sure the latter release numbers never sold !

Re the "can't speak" sure garry had just a very small handfull of them ,it's where Guy etc found it on the shelves (Garry is on here ,sure he'll confirm) Strange i can't remember ever coming across those large font dade releases while in the states ,even the Arnold Albury's etc.. I own them but bought them all over here.. ah probably off Garry !

Agree with Dylan Tony Ashley ,Rayons were pigs to find ,and still not common and both outstanding records ...

[boba]

Again loosely related but never the less rellevent is the John Washington / Daddy Teddybear / Burn the callender / Sandwash , a Agency Studio Recording,certainly the same guy - one side great northern dancer and the flip phew a absolutely fantastic ballad ! in my experience very rare (got 4 copies around 8-10 years ago) sold the spares and haven't seen it since

you outbid me on the sandwash record last time it was on ebay (it was maybe 3-4 years ago?).

[Dysonsoul]

you outbid me on the sandwash record last time it was on ebay (it was maybe 3-4 years ago?).

You're probably right then ,that makes five copies then ! think the spares went to northern dj's ,jesus i'm glad i mostly use my good lady's ebay name now no-one's onto that yet... hopefully !

[boba]

You're probably right then ,that makes five copies then ! think the spares went to northern dj's ,jesus i'm glad i mostly use my good lady's ebay name now no-one's onto that yet... hopefully !

I got ebay on lock, you can't hide from me.

[Pomonkey]

while we are in florida can I add for discussion

little beaver "i'm a man / don't let it end this way" cat

I think this is realy rare so would be good to know if this was also around in the past or not ?

took me ages to find.

<< >>>

Seem to remember Finewine once laughing at me on seeing a Philips Bros on Now stored in my oven or someplace ridiculous but I've never resorted to keeping records in any pet's litter box (although I've heard a few that belong there)

[Steve G]

You're probably right then ,that makes five copies then ! think the spares went to northern dj's ,jesus i'm glad i mostly use my good lady's ebay name now no-one's onto that yet... hopefully !

You sold one to me Andy.

[Steve G]

Thanks for posting this Alan. My question is this: if John had a few hundred where are they all now? I can appreciate many of them being in the hands of collectors who never deejay but the resale market in this particular title has been a veritable trickle during the twenty odd years of it being an extremely popular dancefloor record. Figures in the hundreds just don't add up to me. If there were hundreds of them about we'd see them come up for sale on ebay or being sold on the forums. We'd be hearing original copies being hammered at every local soul night by collector/djs up and down the country and internationally too. That is simply not the case in my experience.

A "few hundred" may be a bit of poetic licence for 200-300 or something (only John knows), but there must be at least 50 in the UK alone when you think about it - even more if Garry took 50 off of John. Even I am surprised by how many oldies DJs I hear end on it.....I don't really see this one as a holy grail I am afraid. Hard to source now maybe and that's why the price has gone so high. As well as the overseas collectors there are also some folks in the UK that collect records and don't DJ I know you know that and we mustn't forget them.

while we are in florida can I add for discussion

little beaver "i'm a man / don't let it end this way" cat

I think this is realy rare so would be good to know if this was also around in the past or not ?

took me ages to find.

<< >>>

Seem to remember Finewine once laughing at me on seeing a Philips Bros on Now stored in my oven or someplace ridiculous but I've never resorted to keeping records in any pet's litter box (although I've heard a few that belong there)

Yes very good :lol: I also have a cage where I keep my 'Lion' label stuff. and a fridge which is stacked with "Philadelphia" records :

Edited January 11, 2012 by Steve G

[Quinvy]

Is it this one ?

https://lh3.googleus...20/DSC_0206.jpg

No mate, that's the yellow demo which is very common.

[Guest allnightandy]

No mate, that's the yellow demo which is very common.

It's orange on mine mate !

[Benji]

It's orange on mine mate !

But it's still a demo.

[Quinvy]

It's orange on mine mate !

Chalk and cheese when you see them together. That picture does look more orange than yellow, but difference can be seen here -

Edited January 11, 2012 by Quinvy

[Guest allnightandy]

Chalk and cheese when you see them together. That picture does look more orange than yellow, but difference can be seen here -

That's a different record ! i have put a yellow one up next to my original post

[Guest brianw70]

That's a different record ! i have put a yellow one up next to my original post

both you have posted are demos andy, the issue is very hard to source.

[Pete S]

Bell is a common label

so where are all the Gerri Grangers ?

They started appearing about 18 months ago, when I had my first one I was quite blown away as I hadn't had one for ages, then I got another 6 weeks later, then two or three went through ebay, and a couple went on soul source as well.

[Guest allnightandy]

They started appearing about 18 months ago, when I had my first one I was quite blown away as I hadn't had one for ages, then I got another 6 weeks later, then two or three went through ebay, and a couple went on soul source as well.

Are we talking the same record "I go to pieces"

which untill today i had never seen a stock copy of

Or her other record "I can take it like a man " ?

https://www.popsike.c...60450131222.jpg

I've altered this because it didn't make sense lol

Edited January 11, 2012 by allnightandy

[Guest brianw70]

Are we talking the same record "I go to pieces" or her other one "I can take it like a man? which untill today i had never seen a stock copy of

that link you have sent is the b side of i go to pieces stock copy is it not ? think the b side of i cant take it like a man is get it together

[Quinvy]

That's a different record ! i have put a yellow one up next to my original post

They're the same record, just different light making one look darker. Both are yellow demos. It's a different record because I can't find a scan of the hold on issue, because it's very rare.............

[Pete S]

Are we talking the same record "I go to pieces" or her other one "I can take it like a man? which untill today i had never seen a stock copy of

https://www.popsike.c...60450131222.jpg

I was talking about I Go To PIeces

[Guest allnightandy]

.

Edited January 11, 2012 by allnightandy

[Guest allnightandy]

I was talking about I Go To PIeces

great sound !

[boba]

I got ebay on lock, you can't hide from me.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU JUST OUTBID ME ON THIS AGAIN

[boba]

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU JUST OUTBID ME ON THIS AGAIN

ok the dude second chanced me so it's all good. i wish i hadn't bid that high though.

[boba]

I was just joking in my posts btw if anyone thinks I was really angry or anything ... the internet doesn't always come through clearly. I did get second chanced the record though.

[Garethx]

What were the chances of a John Washington on Sandwash ending on ebay on the same day it got a passing mention in this topic with regard to The Sensations. A youtube clip of the Johnny Washington 45 on De-Lite states the group were originally from Albion, Michigan.

[Garethx]

One mentioned on another recent topic which seems scarce on a known label is June Jackson on Musette. Can only recall a couple for public sale in the last couple of decades, one of which was Martin Koppell's and which may have changed hands more than once.

With regards to major label things I can't recall seeing too many grey-label issue copies of Gwen McCrae's "I'm Losing The Feeling" on Columbia. Single sided demos of the other side "Leave The Driving To Us" seem plentiful. Single-sided demos of "I'm Losing The Feeling" itself are out there, but issues with both sides seem elusive.

Edited January 12, 2012 by garethx

[Dylan]

One mentioned on another recent topic which seems scarce on a known label is June Jackson on Musette. Can only recall a couple for public sale in the last couple of decades, one of which was Martin Koppell's and which may have changed hands more than once.

With regards to major label things I can't recall seeing too many grey-label issue copies of Gwen McCrae's "I'm Losing The Feeling" on Columbia. Single sided demos of the other side "Leave The Driving To Us" seem plentiful. Single-sided demos of "I'm Losing The Feeling" itself are out there, but issues with both sides seem elusive.

is "i'm loosing the feeling" a version of the kim tolliver LP track or even one that came out before KT ? i've not heard that one.

[Garethx]

Same song as Kim Tolliver but a very different band track, even though Willie Hale plays on both. Both brilliant records and tough to say which is better. Gwen's came out first, 1972 as opposed to 1973.

[Dylan]

thanks Gareth I assumed it must be the same song but I can't listen to music on this compuetr so couldnb;t check with the youtube link I found.

isn't there also "standing room only" done by both ?

Edited January 12, 2012 by dylan

[Steve G]

Dylan, I wasn't aware of a Gwen McCrae standing room only, unless it's a more recent thing? Certainly not on my albums or 45s....

Edited January 12, 2012 by Steve G

[Dylan]

Dylan, I wasn't aware of a Gwen McCrae standing room only, unless it's a more recent thing? Certainly not on my albums or 45s....

I'm not certain on this just got a memory of it being played on a radio show but I could well have got this wrong so wanted to throw it out on here.

[Dylan]

its on this LP / cd from 96

https://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B000003T4J

edit : I'm not suggesting this is rare just going off on a tangent.

Edited January 12, 2012 by dylan

[Steve G]

Thanks Dylan not aware of that LP which is much later than all her Cat stuff and the Atlantic one....which is about where I cut off as far as Gwennie Babes is concerned. Also has Robbing Peter to pay Paul etc, I have the original version of that on Hot Rays somewhere, but would need to dig it out to remember who did it (not saying it's rare as clearly it was a soul bowl front page focus in the early 80s). Cheers Steve

[Benji]

is "i'm loosing the feeling" a version of the kim tolliver LP track or even one that came out before KT ? i've not heard that one.

I'm only aware of the Kim Tolliver LP she did as Kimberly Briggs on Fantasy (after she married Freddy Briggs) and there's no track titled "i'm losing the feeling". Did she record another LP?

[Kris Holmes]

I'm only aware of the Kim Tolliver LP she did as Kimberly Briggs on Fantasy (after she married Freddy Briggs) and there's no track titled "i'm losing the feeling". Did she record another LP?

yep, the one on Chess.

[boba]

One mentioned on another recent topic which seems scarce on a known label is June Jackson on Musette. Can only recall a couple for public sale in the last couple of decades, one of which was Martin Koppell's and which may have changed hands more than once.

With regards to major label things I can't recall seeing too many grey-label issue copies of Gwen McCrae's "I'm Losing The Feeling" on Columbia. Single sided demos of the other side "Leave The Driving To Us" seem plentiful. Single-sided demos of "I'm Losing The Feeling" itself are out there, but issues with both sides seem elusive.

I looked through a large amount of a closed record store stock in the Chicago suburbs (which was already picked over a bunch of times by Ady Pierce) and the dude had lots of copies of all mccrae columbia titles, promo and stock. I bought at least one copy for myself of every one, but I think I might have bought a few more. I would have to go through like 25 record boxes to find it though (because anything you're ever looking for is always in the last box you look).

[boba]

What were the chances of a John Washington on Sandwash ending on ebay on the same day it got a passing mention in this topic with regard to The Sensations. A youtube clip of the Johnny Washington 45 on De-Lite states the group were originally from Albion, Michigan.

Yeah, the group definitely was from Albion (Johnny McCall of the Magnetics was also originally from there...). It contributes to the problem of nobody knowing about them. J Washington might have stayed in ohio since he put out his own record on his own ohio-based label.

[Dylan]

yep, the one on Chess.

And the chess one is far better and relevant to soul fans. I think the fantasy one is a bit patchy and not her best work.

The fantasy one also came out on another label and was titled "who's kimberly"

[Benji]

And the chess one is far better and relevant to soul fans. I think the fantasy one is a bit patchy and not her best work.

The fantasy one also came out on another label and was titled "who's kimberly"

Thanks for the info. Have the Fantasy album myself and basically agree with you. Will try to get a copy of her Chess album. Is it dear?

Actually, while writing I realize that I only have two records by her, the album and one of her Rojac 45s "let them talk". Revised new year's resolution for myself: stop smoking get more Kim Tolliver records

[Dylan]

Thanks for the info. Have the Fantasy album myself and basically agree with you. Will try to get a copy of her Chess album. Is it dear?

Actually, while writing I realize that I only have two records by her, the album and one of her Rojac 45s "let them talk". Revised new year's resolution for myself: stop smoking get more Kim Tolliver records

The chess one isn't mega money I would guess 40GBP would get you a Ex copy. It has also been reissued on CD quite recently.

[Dylan]

and on Kim Tolliver her 2 rarest 45s have to be the live one on revillot and the rojac "Driving me into the arms of a stranger"

[Kris Holmes]

Incredibly, Kim Tolliver & Lou Ragland spent time (a few months) here in Auckland back in the late 70s playing club dates. One of the local papers ran a pic & short story too. I like her Rojac 45 "You're Trying To Cop My Stuff", a cool, cheap 45. Agree the Chess LP is the strongest one. Notice she has a Rojac compilation CD out too.

[Steve G]

Yiddish Soul Brother Amnon on Chess?

Just noticed this Matt, def. v rare. Even the discos list the artist incorrectly....Steve

[Pete S]

My main interest is in records from the 1960s, I don't know much about records from the 1970s, especially soul

Based on my experience and the comments here, I'll make a list of rare records on major labels. This list will include garage as well as soul, since I know more about certain garage records and why they are rare - might be useful. For now I am not going to mention stock or promo, in most cases promos will be much more available. This list is 1960s based (I don't consider anything after 1970) so almost every promo has both sides, avoiding the problem with 70s same side promos.

This is a first draft and will have a lot of missing items. Motown family labels not included, mainly because I don't know them well enough and there is way more info available on them from other sources

A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies

A&M - nothing rare. Terry Knight and Pack 45 listed in discogs has never been found.

Toni Basil stock copy, Towanda Barnes stock copy

ABC - Yum Yums is scarce. Some records listed in discogs that have never been found (Impressions, Styx (rock?)). Merry Dragons, a garage record, is somewhat scarce.

Several almost impossible stock copies on ABC

Decca - nothing rare

At least 6 very rare stock copies on Decca

Dot - I forget which soul 45s are scarce. Syndicate and Sherlocks "Skin of My Teeth" (both garage) are scarce. A couple more borderline scarce rock 45s

reatha Reese

MGM - nothing rare

Dean Courtney issue

RCA - nothing rare

Two dozen very scarce black issues

Scepter - Johnny Maestro is scarce(?), Dickens (rock, aka NRBQ) is scarce, not as rare as claimed by some sources

The Camp

[Dave Pinch]

no, not related. in my experience the hard atlantic 45 is rarer than the fine or lyndell 45. This is the one I got:

https://cgi.ebay.com/...9#ht_703wt_1035

not rare at all bob coz most are probably in the uk..trickier than it used to be but not rare..even issued in the uk in 74..the usa 45 is from 69 of course

Edited February 4, 2012 by dave pinch

[Dave Pinch]

Not sure if this is readable. It's from a John Anderson interview i have scanned on an old laptop. John had a few hundred, Garry got 50, sold a few at £5 & £8 then most ended up in soul packs then Tim Brown got the last 7 or 8 @ £35 each.

If you're reading, sorry Garry

thats it then jimmie bo down to a tenner........john had 40 odd ..garry had 10...mick smith had a couple from john tim a couple from garry..they certainly wernt hundreds

Edited February 4, 2012 by dave pinch

[boba]

not rare at all bob coz most are probably in the uk..trickier than it used to be but not rare..even issued in the uk in 74..the usa 45 is from 69 of course

thanks for the info, there are a lot of records rare in the US but common in the UK

[Dave Pinch]

thanks for the info, there are a lot of records rare in the US but common in the UK

i still think that demo you bought would set you back £75 bob if offerered in the uk.... i picked up a nice usa issue from a random local soul night for £1.50 in the 90`s.. sold for £20 a few years ago. like a lot of 45`s i could mention available 15/20/25 years ago but not seen very often today..all tucked away

[boba]

i still think that demo you bought would set you back £75 bob if offerered in the uk.... i picked up a nice usa issue from a random local soul night for £1.50 in the 90`s.. sold for £20 a few years ago. like a lot of 45`s i could mention available 15/20/25 years ago but not seen very often today..all tucked away

I got a stock copy not a promo (linked above). Thanks.

[Steve Foran]

Very good post Harry. As I had posted earlier today the same question pleased it wasvery informative. Funny as I posted on this original back in Jan. Good stuff.

Like to add

Tobi Legend on Mala Issue

Eddie Regan on ABC Issue

I still wonder about (say) Okeh,Decca,MGM etc.