Common Labels/rare Records.?

[boba]

I know that bob

so that is the same Family connection from Ct ?

yes

[boba]

I just got the hard soul brothers six 45 on atlantic, I had never seen it before, it was a nice record too.

[Sleeps45]

the soul brothers six on fine is real nice.I dont know if it is releated or not

Edited January 9, 2012 by Sleeps45

[boba]

the soul brothers six on fine is real nice.I dont know if it is releated or not

no, not related. in my experience the hard atlantic 45 is rarer than the fine or lyndell 45. This is the one I got:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150719971909#ht_703wt_1035

[Weingarden]

no, not related. in my experience the hard atlantic 45 is rarer than the fine or lyndell 45. This is the one I got:

https://cgi.ebay.com/...9#ht_703wt_1035

That one is much harder than their others on the label, yeah. The sought-after one is the most common, right? I've seen this only once (and bought it); when I'm in Detroit I see dozens of copies of the "northern" one.

[boba]

The sought-after one is the most common, right?

yes, because the a-side "some kind of wonderful" was a hit

[boba]

And what a great record it is, didn´t realise it was difficult to find though?

Steve

I could always be wrong, just my personal experience. also, maybe i didn't look at every soul brothers six on atlantic that came up because they almost always are the same titles -- maybe I missed other instances of this title.

I agree, both sides are great though.

[Weingarden]

Deacon Lee and the Prophets on Revue?

[Sebastian]

I could always be wrong, just my personal experience. also, maybe i didn't look at every soul brothers six on atlantic that came up because they almost always are the same titles -- maybe I missed other instances of this title.

Definitely their trickiest Atlantic release. But there must've been a stack that came over to Scandinavia at some point because I've found 4 copies during the past couple of years in record stores here in my hometown of Malmoe, Sweden and in Copenhagen, Denmark. All of them in practically M- condition as well, so probably came over here to be sold in "cut-out" stores (there were several of those here in Sweden during the late 60s and throughout the 70s that exclusively sold US pressed cut-outs and overstocks). Weird how stuff like that happens.

And while on the topic of rare 45s turning up in Sweden... one copy of the Tommy Dent 45 on Cobblestone (not my copy) turned up in Stockholm (and was later auctioned by Manship). Amazing!

[Dylan]

no, not related. in my experience the hard atlantic 45 is rarer than the fine or lyndell 45. This is the one I got:

https://cgi.ebay.com/...9#ht_703wt_1035

how do you mean not related I always though this was the same group as on fine ?

anbd until that small find in australia the fine release must have been a very rare record. It still is very rare IMO.

[Dylan]

another couple to discuss

thomas bailey "just won';t move" federal. I consider this one super rare and have never owned this record.

benny lattimore "i'm a believer" dade certainly scarce

[boba]

how do you mean not related I always though this was the same group as on fine ?

I have no idea why I would write something that stupid and wrong. It is the same group. I didn't get much sleep last night, must have been thinking of something else.

[Steve G]

no, not related. in my experience the hard atlantic 45 is rarer than the fine or lyndell 45. This is the one I got:

https://cgi.ebay.com/...9#ht_703wt_1035

I didn't think this was rare at all. Been on the shelves for ages Bob.]

And while on the topic of rare 45s turning up in Sweden... one copy of the Tommy Dent 45 on Cobblestone (not my copy) turned up in Stockholm (and was later auctioned by Manship). Amazing!

Amazing!

[Steve G]

a rarer bobby reed is the bobby reed on abbott stock copy (with the flip), i haven't found one yet. probably some crappy song though.

Only a demo here Bob, so agreed it looks elusive.

[Garethx]

A few of the non-Atlantic distributed 45s on Henry Stone's labels from the late 60s are pretty scarce. Jimmy Bo Horn on Dade is the most obvious example but there are others. As Dylan mentions the local-only Benny Latimore on Dade is definitely scarce.

[Dylan]

I have no idea why I would write something that stupid and wrong. It is the same group. I didn't get much sleep last night, must have been thinking of something else.

Bob you never sleep you are always on here

[boba]

Bob you never sleep you are always on here

i wish this were not true

[Steve G]

. Jimmy Bo Horn on Dade is the most obvious example but there are others.

Yet this was a Soul Pack record at one point Either John A or Garry Cape I cannot remember which.

[Weingarden]

I am willing to be talked out of my ultra-ultra-scarce Benny Latimore on Dade--keeping in mind, of course, its ultra-ultra-scarcity.

[Weingarden]

Common label, rare record: Appointments on De-Lite.

[Dylan]

I am willing to be talked out of my ultra-ultra-scarce Benny Latimore on Dade--keeping in mind, of course, its ultra-ultra-scarcity.

good sales pitch

I didn't get a sniff when I listed mine.

[Garethx]

good sales pitch

I didn't get a sniff when I listed mine.

I don't get why there's never any interest in this 45 as both sides are exceptional. Better than Jimmy Bo Horn by a country mile. Two of Jackie Avery's best songs and two of the finest sides ever cut at Fame during the classic era.

Regarding the Jimmy Bo Horn 'soul pack' stories I've heard it for years but I don't think anyone on the forums has ever owned up to receiving one via such a route. It may well have gone in such packs but the quantity found between John and Garry was really miniscule. It's not like the title was lying around on shelves in huge quantity. More a case of there not really being an audience for the record on the dance scene of the time.

[Steve G]

.

Regarding the Jimmy Bo Horn 'soul pack' stories I've heard it for years but I don't think anyone on the forums has ever owned up to receiving one via such a route.

Hi Gareth

It was actually John and Garry that told me over dinner once at a weekender. They couldn't believe that it was selling for £600 or whatever at the time......I don't know how many or where, like so many records, they disappeared to.

[Quinvy]

_{Why is it that nearly every release on WAY OUT is gettable, other than 'Demanding Man'.}

_{Very annoyed of Stoke.}

There is a sound fault on this record at approx 1.00 minute in. Sounds like the record skips, but it's the recording, so probably withdrawn for that reason.

Milton James on Dore is another example. Three known copies?

I saw a very rare record at Tim Brown's the other day - Judy Freeman - Hold on - RCA issue. Never seen it before, and was starting to think it didn't exist. Think he's going to auction it soon.

[Harry Crosby]

Wow!!!! this threads really taken off,many thanks for everyones input, some really fascinating stuff, thanks folks. Keep it going

[boba]

There is a sound fault on this record at approx 1.00 minute in. Sounds like the record skips, but it's the recording, so probably withdrawn for that reason.

I've never heard the record skip. People have told me stories of trashing their label stock due to a pressing fault that caused a skip. But I think this is less likely with modern turntables.

Also, I think with the sensations, that record sounds totally different than all their other records. While it has a big northern appeal I'd imagine it would appeal less to the local ohio audience and it may have just not sold anything.

Of course all of this is just speculation.

Edited January 10, 2012 by boba

[boba]

one more vaguely related thing: there is one more later sensations 45 -- Johnny Washington on De-lite. Totally awesome record and clearly the exact same group. I think only for the demanding man 45 did they stray from their typical style.

[Garethx]

"Demanding Man" is odd on a few levels. One is that very few copies exist in pristine condition. Most I've seen have been well used with all the telltale signs like WOL and play damage (as opposed to damage from poor storage of unsold stock) so it must have got out to consumers in the local area.

Over the years I've come to think that the other side "Gonna Step Aside" is the better record. That really does have the intricate, soaring harmonies which made them such a talented group. "Demanding Man" is still awesome Northern Soul though.

[George G]

one more vaguely related thing: there is one more later sensations 45 -- Johnny Washington on De-lite. Totally awesome record and clearly the exact same group. I think only for the demanding man 45 did they stray from their typical style.

Yes, it is. These songs (and the 'Realistics' 45 on De-Lite) were issued under those names to try and make a fast buck. They couldn't use the Sensations name so they came up with the alternates. All the songs were cut probably '69 or earlier. Way Out went to 16 track in the summer of '69 so I think they were done before that, I'd have to listen to the other 45s from that time and see if the sound matched. Possibly as early as '67.

Rather than multi quote I'll comment on garethx and quinvys posts. The fault in Demanding Man sounds like someone bumped the acetate cutter and it veers out of the groove a tad. Maybe someone was simultaneously rigging the Way Out 'security system' shotgun! I don't know if the record got airplay but it was released in 1970 but recorded before then. Two other rare WO 45s, possibly rarer than DM would be Joan Bias (from '63, it stinks) and the Harmonics (released about the same time as DM), which either had the stock sent somewhere or discarded because it turns up the least in Ohio. The Harmonics 45 is no great shakes either. Keep in mind that the Sensations were from Michigan, and the DM 45 was released well after they were at their most popular.

[boba]

Rather than multi quote I'll comment on garethx and quinvys posts. The fault in Demanding Man sounds like someone bumped the acetate cutter and it veers out of the groove a tad. Maybe someone was simultaneously rigging the Way Out 'security system' shotgun! I don't know if the record got airplay but it was released in 1970 but recorded before then. Two other rare WO 45s, possibly rarer than DM would be Joan Bias (from '63, it stinks) and the Harmonics (released about the same time as DM), which either had the stock sent somewhere or discarded because it turns up the least in Ohio. The Harmonics 45 is no great shakes either. Keep in mind that the Sensations were from Michigan, and the DM 45 was released well after they were at their most popular.

I have the harmonics on way out, a pretty crappy funk 45. What is the Joan Bias? I never heard of it before.

[Steve G]

one more vaguely related thing: there is one more later sensations 45 -- Johnny Washington on De-lite. Totally awesome record and clearly the exact same group. I think only for the demanding man 45 did they stray from their typical style.

Wow interesting.....thanks

"Demanding Man" is odd on a few levels. One is that very few copies exist in pristine condition. Most I've seen have been well used with all the telltale signs like WOL and play damage (as opposed to damage from poor storage of unsold stock) so it must have got out to consumers in the local area.

Mine is mint Gareth. And I have never noticed a sound fault, I'll have to listen again.

[George G]

I have the harmonics on way out, a pretty crappy funk 45. What is the Joan Bias? I never heard of it before.

Sounds like a nightclub singer. It's an anomaly for the label, it's a solid orange color with block print label name. Has the look and sound of a favor for someone's girlfriend or relative.

[Quinvy]

Wow interesting.....thanks

Mine is mint Gareth. And I have never noticed a sound fault, I'll have to listen again.

Try again Steve, it's definitely there around the one minute mark. I have made a note of checking every copy and every sound file I have come across.

[Quinvy]

Has anyone else got or seen the Judy Freeman on an orange RCA issue?

Another very rare one is Ernie King - Too Hot To Hold - Mercury, it's only available on the red issue as the demo has - That's When I Woke Up - on both sides. Great funky northern too.

[Garethx]

Gary Cape had Jimmy bo Horne in Quantity(well quite a few anyway) as when Rob Marriott told me(in his smashed state) who it was(still covered up) i told Cliff Steel(in my smashed state) who it was and he got ,i think three copies(at least) i know i had it really cheap off him(fifty? quid as i had given him the tip)

Steve...............the grass

Hi Steve. No doubt your recollection is completely correct but the find was less than two dozen copies all told. Probably took them years to shift even that amount until someone had the bright idea of playing the thing on the Northern scene. Garry was probably delighted to get fifty quid for any of them.

[Garethx]

Has anyone else got or seen the Judy Freeman on an orange RCA issue?

Another very rare one is Ernie King - Too Hot To Hold - Mercury, it's only available on the red issue as the demo has - That's When I Woke Up - on both sides. Great funky northern too.

The orange issue of Judy Freeman is certainly a hard one compared to the yellow DJ but I'd be interested to see if it fetches much more of a price. Remember the dj copy has two sides and the labels don't look radically different (orange vs yellow isn't as much a difference as between 60s WDJ and stock copies of RCA titles).

[John Siret]

Gary Cape had Jimmy bo Horne in Quantity(well quite a few anyway) as when Rob Marriott told me(in his smashed state) who it was(still covered up) i told Cliff Steel(in my smashed state) who it was and he got ,i think three copies(at least) i know i had it really cheap off him(fifty? quid as i had given him the tip)

Steve...............the grass

I didn't get Garry Cape's list back then, but 2 collectors near by did & they both had copies from him of Jimmy Bo Horn for around 15 pounds i think.

[Alan T]

Hi Steve. No doubt your recollection is completely correct but the find was less than two dozen copies all told. Probably took them years to shift even that amount until someone had the bright idea of playing the thing on the Northern scene. Garry was probably delighted to get fifty quid for any of them.

Not sure if this is readable. It's from a John Anderson interview i have scanned on an old laptop. John had a few hundred, Garry got 50, sold a few at £5 & £8 then most ended up in soul packs then Tim Brown got the last 7 or 8 @ £35 each.

If you're reading, sorry Garry

Edited January 10, 2012 by alan t

[Weingarden]

Surely he means the Jimmy Bo Horne on Dig, not the one on Dade that we were discussing, right?

[Steve G]

Thanks for posting this Alan T, I knew I was not going mad (yet!). Ties in with what the boys told me as well.

John had good contacts in Florida for many years and also I remember (before anyone posts it as a 'rare' record ) him telling me how he left Henry Stone's warehouse one day with as many Charles Johnson's on Alston as he could carry - a sports bag packed plus copies under his arms etc...hundreds of em....

[Alan T]

Surely he means the Jimmy Bo Horne on Dig, not the one on Dade that we were discussing, right?

I can't speak on Dade

Edited January 10, 2012 by alan t

[Paul Dunn]

Gary Cape had Jimmy bo Horne in Quantity(well quite a few anyway) as when Rob Marriott told me(in his smashed state) who it was(still covered up) i told Cliff Steel(in my smashed state) who it was and he got ,i think three copies(at least) i know i had it really cheap off him(fifty? quid as i had given him the tip)

Steve...............the grass

Hello steve, you told me who it was and I got the first one from Gary Cape, I had bought something from him and added a wants list that included Jimmy Bo Horne, Gary added it into the record I bought and asked me to send him £6 (I still have the note attached to the record sleeve). I put Cliff on to it and a few others (sorry I did not have your contact details to let you know) I do not think Gary had more than a dozen copies all in mint condition though.

Regards to you

Paul

[Dylan]

while we are in florida can I add for discussion

little beaver "i'm a man / don't let it end this way" cat

I think this is realy rare so would be good to know if this was also around in the past or not ?

took me ages to find.

Edited January 10, 2012 by dylan

[Steve G]

while we are in florida can I add for discussion

little beaver "i'm a man / don't let it end this way" cat

I think this is realy rare so would be good to know if this was also around in the past or not ?

took me ages to find.

I looked in my Cat box - it ain't there.

Try again Steve, it's definitely there around the one minute mark.

Oh yeah, never noticed it before.....

[Dylan]

Tha Jimmy Bo Horne quantity mentioned here is food for thought when I first became aware of that record it was always touted arounnd the 1k mark and i'm sure shifty sold one for around 2k.

[Harry Crosby]

Has anyone else got or seen the Judy Freeman on an orange RCA issue?

Another very rare one is Ernie King - Too Hot To Hold - Mercury, it's only available on the red issue as the demo has - That's When I Woke Up - on both sides. Great funky northern too.

Judy Freeman, yep had an issue, and my mate has one in york, think there may be two in york actually, think that little ginger fella has one as well

[Weingarden]

Boy, am I confused. I was still thinking about Benny Latimore. Okay, now I get it.

[Garethx]

Not sure if this is readable. It's from a John Anderson interview i have scanned on an old laptop. John had a few hundred, Garry got 50, sold a few at £5 & £8 then most ended up in soul packs then Tim Brown got the last 7 or 8 @ £35 each.

If you're reading, sorry Garry

Thanks for posting this Alan. My question is this: if John had a few hundred where are they all now? I can appreciate many of them being in the hands of collectors who never deejay but the resale market in this particular title has been a veritable trickle during the twenty odd years of it being an extremely popular dancefloor record. Figures in the hundreds just don't add up to me. If there were hundreds of them about we'd see them come up for sale on ebay or being sold on the forums. We'd be hearing original copies being hammered at every local soul night by collector/djs up and down the country and internationally too. That is simply not the case in my experience.

[Guest allnightandy]

Has anyone else got or seen the Judy Freeman on an orange RCA issue?

Another very rare one is Ernie King - Too Hot To Hold - Mercury, it's only available on the red issue as the demo has - That's When I Woke Up - on both sides. Great funky northern too.

Is it this one ?

https://lh3.googleus...20/DSC_0206.jpg https://

Edited January 11, 2012 by allnightandy

[boba]

Ernie King is the same person as King Ernest / King Ernest Baker. That mercury 45 is his first record.