Never Had It So Good

[Soulfinger]

Come on lads, I'm on me own here

 

 

You're not but there's nowt wrong with being on your own when you are right.

[Guest Gogs]

Name one.  Thats better than Spyder Turner.  

or don't, I'm going to watch the football anyway...

Sorry my friend but you and i are going to have to disagree again, although i am primarily Known as an "oldies" dj. I have so many "modern" , "crossover" or "newies" that sound better than a lot of the "oldies" that i normally play. I think that i am typecast !!!

[Labeat]

Shall we try and put it into perspective.... it's all "old" stuff (recorded in the 60's & 70's) but for a lot of folk it ran it's course in the late 80's (attending venues)

Over the last 10 years or so quite a few have come back onto the scene maybe expecting it to be as it was (everything familiar), well on the whole it is, but

gradually more non commercial/unfamiliar tunes were introduced at venues and rightly or wrongly it freshened things up. From a personal point of view

i like to hear a good mix of top notch oldies and quality newer discoveries making for a good night out. Really, it's pointless squabbling over old V new

[Bazza]

What is a newie to some may not be to others,the 3 below are newies to to me ,as good as any " Classic "

 

United Four - She's Putting You On

Admirations - You Left Me

James and Bobby Purify - Wish You didn't Have To Go

 

some of you will say " they are not newies " well to me they are 

 

Bazza 

[Davenpete]

I think every generation must enjoy THEIR time on the scene.

 

When I started going (being a mere pup of 50 - after the Casino closed) I was constantly lectured how it 'wasn't how it used to be' and that all the best records had been found etc etc etc. Of course now the early-mid 80s are seen as a golden era musically (frankly in my view partly down to the fact that the scene HAD shrunk significantly - meaning you were into Northern for the love of Soul and NOT because all your mates went - 90% of the reason the scene got back on track IMO).

 

I know that as an old Wheel goer, Torch and VaVa fanatic Pete has a similar 'downhill in a big way' view of the the Casino post-75 - yet of course he missed some of the greatest spins ever played their in switching totally to the Mecca, Angels, The Warehouse etc in the late 70s.

 

It used to annoy me to be lectured about 'the good old days' - sure the scene MAY have been a gazillion times better in 19XX - but I had no opportunity to experience it back then, so in practice it just becomes sour grapes on the part of the lecturer.

 

Anyway Bazza's also made an important point - if you've not heard a record before it's new and fresh TO YOU - even if it's been hammered to hell historically. I remember my old partner in crime Wayne Pallet actually hearing Out On The Floor at a nighter for the first time at the Unicorn and thinking it was tremendous in an allnighter (he knew it of course but ironically because it was 'played out' he'd been going weekly for three years before he heard it spun between 12 and 8).

 

I would say I think that totally new 60s discoveries that genuinely measure up (and I DO have an issue with second rate sounds being played simply because they're either unknown or very rare) are getting damn thin on the ground - so surely it's time to start ressurecting genuinely forgotten oldies (though as ever SO many 'oldies' DJs stick to the lame 100 same old same oles - mainly I suspect because they are too feckless, inept at building a balanced spot and lacking in knowledge to know-of and how-to spin anything else) - I have loads of 'proper' Northern records I've never heard played in the 33 years I've been going (except by me of course) and I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

 

Dave

 

PS Bazza - J&B Purify's Wheel biggie 'Let Love Come Between Us' is the best by them IMO.

Edited August 28, 2014 by DaveNPete

[Tony parker]

Shall we try and put it into perspective.... it's all "old" stuff (recorded in the 60's & 70's) but for a lot of folk it ran it's course in the late 80's (attending venues)

Over the last 10 years or so quite a few have come back onto the scene maybe expecting it to be as it was (everything familiar), well on the whole it is, but

gradually more non commercial/unfamiliar tunes were introduced at venues and rightly or wrongly it freshened things up. From a personal point of view

i like to hear a good mix of top notch oldies and quality newer discoveries making for a good night out. Really, it's pointless squabbling over old V new

hmm

Edited October 11, 2014 by ivan garfirth

[Quinvy]

Interested to know what quality discoveries have been made in the last 5 years  from the 60s/70s , could I have some examples or are they just new to you ?

 

See post number 3

[Guest UPTITE U250A]

That lot against

 

Eddie Daye

Don Gardner

Lou Ragland

Marvelous Ray

The Sheppards

Jimmy Robins

The Magnetics

The Masqueraders

 

or 20,000 other records from the past...never in a million years

 

" IN MY OPINION "

perfectly summed up Pete

[Guest UPTITE U250A]

Hardly any of this 'new' stuff would have been considered good enough in the 70's Matt - it is what it is - most sound like B sides - and we got into Northern to get away from funk, why would we want to embrace it?   If you can tell me one current record as good as Spyder Turner I can't make it anymore, I'll concede defeat

None of the sounds he listed have ANYTHING to do with Northern Soul,let alone have any relevance to any kind of scene,other than the collectors point of vu.Emulations,John Harris,United Sound are all "bamboo-shoots under the fingernails jobs",all useless "b" sides type quality best forgotten about as quickly as possible.Sure,after some Jack's,at the end of a great evening of real music,just to wind things down somewhat,some folks scrape the bottom of the barrel looking for a "new" tune or one they don't play often (cos they're crap).I'm sick of people trying to compare the best in Northern Soul orientated music to some kind of latest/new mode that comes along.You want that Zombie 2-step shiyte,ok,just leave 60Ts Northern Soul out of your comparisons and everything else will be just "fine"...

[Guest UPTITE U250A]

Name one.  Thats better than Spyder Turner.  

or don't, I'm going to watch the football anyway...

I was "with you Pete"....just untill the "football" bit....then I left...

[Pete S]

None of the sounds he listed have ANYTHING to do with Northern Soul,let alone have any relevance to any kind of scene,other than the collectors point of vu.Emulations,John Harris,United Sound are all "bamboo-shoots under the fingernails jobs",all useless "b" sides type quality best forgotten about as quickly as possible.Sure,after some Jack's,at the end of a great evening of real music,just to wind things down somewhat,some folks scrape the bottom of the barrel looking for a "new" tune or one they don't play often (cos they're crap).I'm sick of people trying to compare the best in Northern Soul orientated music to some kind of latest/new mode that comes along.You want that Zombie 2-step shiyte,ok,just leave 60Ts Northern Soul out of your comparisons and everything else will be just "fine"...

 

(Round of applause)  But you do realise you are now classed as a dinosaur who lives in the past and you can't be a proper soul music fan because you don't like new stuff and disco and 80's sh*te like some of our more enlightened colleagues who appear to think they are intellectually above us mere mortals because they "moved on" and "appreciate great Soul music from all eras" whereas we are neanderthals for actually enjoying the sound of proper 60's Northern Soul and not wanting to listen to synthesised plastic rubbish, feeble crossover w*nk and tenth rate funk.

[Liljimmycrank]

None of the sounds he listed have ANYTHING to do with Northern Soul,let alone have any relevance to any kind of scene

 

First part i could sort of say correct in terms of nothing to do with "northern soul" (what is that exactly, perhaps you could explain your full technical definition)?.............Put things in pigeon holes if you must

BUT where did the original poster mention northern soul in his opening gambit? Just soul, and the soul scene / allniters of today. Don't think he's referring to a northern soul scene.

Second point i can't agree with. Those sounds have been heard on a scene; a faction of a wider and very compartmentalised soul scene, so when you say the listed records don't "have any relevance to any kind of scene", this is just factually wrong.

 

This thread started out well but now just reverted to the usual oldies versus newies debate, and if you're not in the oldies. I don't think Matt at any point trashed the oldies, in fact he even made a point of acknowledging it's importance. 

It's all subjective i guess

[Liljimmycrank]

(Round of applause)  But you do realise you are now classed as a dinosaur who lives in the past and you can't be a proper soul music fan because you don't like new stuff and disco and 80's sh*te like some of our more enlightened colleagues who appear to think they are intellectually above us mere mortals because they "moved on" and "appreciate great Soul music from all eras" whereas we are neanderthals for actually enjoying the sound of proper 60's Northern Soul and not wanting to listen to synthesised plastic rubbish, feeble crossover w*nk and tenth rate funk.

 

It's self loathing and conceited posts like that which make people classed like dinosaurs Pete, not your musical taste (which i would most certainly applaud with some of the titles you've quoted so far).

Maybe the bitterness from the other countless debates on this forum about the oldies versus newies argument surfaced when you typed your response, but i thought this was a pretty needless and out of context reply. Just my opinion, which means jack to anyone other than myself of course!

 

Azza

[Pete S]

First part i could sort of say correct in terms of nothing to do with "northern soul" (what is that exactly, perhaps you could explain your full technical definition)?.............Put things in pigeon holes if you must

BUT where did the original poster mention northern soul in his opening gambit?

 

That old chestnut, asking someone to 'define' Northern Soul and then pulling it to pieces when someone tries to.

Rare uptempo 60's and 70's soul is the usual definition.

 

He said that the music now was better than any time before on the scene.  What scene if not the Northern scene, the rockabilly scene or the line dancing scene?

[Pete S]

It's self loathing and conceited posts like that which make people classed like dinosaurs Pete, not your musical taste (which i would most certainly applaud with some of the titles you've quoted so far).

Maybe the bitterness from the other countless debates on this forum about the oldies versus newies argument surfaced when you typed your response, but i thought this was a pretty needless and out of context reply. Just my opinion, which means jack to anyone other than myself of course!

 

Azza

 

One f*cking massive "whatever" mate.

[Pete S]

The very title of this topic "Never had it so good" - really?  What about "Never had it so bad except for 1978"?  

[Liljimmycrank]

One f*cking massive "whatever" mate.

Nice.

[Liljimmycrank]

He said that the music now was better than any time before on the scene. What scene if not the Northern scene, the rockabilly scene or the line dancing scene?

Northern soul wasn't even mentioned until a "dinosaur" brought it up. I just view it as a soul scene, not northern soul scene. But that's another can if worms isn't it.

[Pete S]

Northern soul wasn't even mentioned until a "dinosaur" brought it up. I just view it as a soul scene, not northern soul scene. But that's another can if worms isn't it.

 

Not not really,  there is a  thing called a Northern Soul scene which thousands of people are into and have been for 50 years or so, then there's this other scene of yours which is of no interest to me whatsoever if it's all encompassing because I don't like funk or crossover, doesn't matter which one you're on but don't try and pretend the other doesn't exist.

This isn't about oldies against newies, it's about brilliance versus total mediocrity.

[Pete S]

Nice.

 

Dish it out, expect it back.

[Pete S]

I'm going shopping so am not ignoring any future posts!

[Labeat]

Some like clapped out oldies some like newer stuff, some like R&B some like Funk, some prefer A sides some B sides, some like Kings hall some like 100 club,

some like sitting at home some like going to venues.... each to their own!

[Len]

None of the sounds he listed have ANYTHING to do with Northern Soul,let alone have any relevance to any kind of scene,other than the collectors point of vu.Emulations,John Harris,United Sound are all "bamboo-shoots under the fingernails jobs",all useless "b" sides type quality best forgotten about as quickly as possible.Sure,after some Jack's,at the end of a great evening of real music,just to wind things down somewhat,some folks scrape the bottom of the barrel looking for a "new" tune or one they don't play often (cos they're crap).I'm sick of people trying to compare the best in Northern Soul orientated music to some kind of latest/new mode that comes along.You want that Zombie 2-step shiyte,ok,just leave 60Ts Northern Soul out of your comparisons and everything else will be just "fine"...

 

Not saying I agree or disagree - But what a great post!

 

Len  

Edited August 28, 2014 by LEN

[Labeat]

I'm going shopping so am not ignoring any future posts!

 

Get me a dozen eggs and a loaf please!

[Liljimmycrank]

Dish it out, expect it back.

Ditto

[Len]

Matt - What have you done?!!!

 

Lovin' it  

 

Len  

[Bazza]

I can only think of a couple of recently discovered tunes ,if you can call in the last ten years recent that have caught folk's eye are

 

Margaret Little - Love Finds Away (which should have remained undiscovered cos its utter rubbish)

The Parliaments - This Is My Rainy Day ( which I do Like )

 

no doubt there are others ,but I think these are the biggest new finds

 

Bazza  

[Liljimmycrank]

Not not really, there is a thing called a Northern Soul scene which thousands of people are into and have been for 50 years or so, then there's this other scene of yours which is of no interest to me whatsoever if it's all encompassing because I don't like funk or crossover, doesn't matter which one you're on but don't try and pretend the other doesn't exist.

This isn't about oldies against newies, it's about brilliance versus total mediocrity.

Who's tried to pretend others don't exist?

I don't consider myself to be on any particular part of these scene. I attend various venues, some of which come under your northern soul scene banner. Have done since I got into soul music, just that the proportion of time spent at each facet has changed over the years. My choice, just like your choice is not to deviate from the sounds of your youth

Edited August 28, 2014 by LilJimmyCrank

[Len]

Personally I think the 90's was the best era, and I agree that today some are trying to hard to add things into the mix that don't belong - I know some may say that about me (but they are clueless)

 

Len

Edited August 28, 2014 by LEN

[Guest eddiep]

"This isn't about oldies against newies, it's about brilliance versus total mediocrity"

 

Actually Pete it's about being more open minded and allowing yourself to enjoy the music and artistry of singers and musicians who moved on with the current trends of their time and peers.

If they didn't there wouldn't be any progression and the whole thing would stagnate just as the Rare Soul / Northern Soul (delete as appropriate) scene would too.

 

If you look at the Rockabilly scene that has almost came to the end of it's life because there was little acceptance for anything else and the scene has little place to go now. Coupled with the age problem it has not long left I don't believe.

 

Our scene....and all it's sub genres has still a healthy amount of blood and life left in it's veins.

It will ultimately go the way of dodo but the "newies" will sustain that life and should be welcomed not dismissed.

 

Varity is the spice of life....

[Drewtg]

Hardly any of this 'new' stuff would have been considered good enough in the 70's Matt - it is what it is - most sound like B sides - and we got into Northern to get away from funk, why would we want to embrace it?   If you can tell me one current record as good as Spyder Turner I can't make it anymore, I'll concede defeat

 

 

Come on lads, I'm on me own here

 

I've got to weigh-in with Pete here. A lot of the sounds are new to me, and to be honest I really like most of them. However Pete is right that the music just doesn't cut it with most of the older stuff. The reason it was probably passed-over and wasn't played back in the day is because it's not Northern Soul. It's good soul music (mostly) but it doesn't raise any goose-bumps. You can't imagine people jumping over tables to hit the dance floor to this stuff. It's "nice", chill-out music for after you've been to an all-nighter.

[Jordirip]

Oldies Newies, Newies Oldies.... all the same really.... 60's&70's

 

Agree. I get the hairs standing up when I hear Freddie Chavez and I get the hairs standing up when I hear the Hopkins Brothers. It's all about context, where you hear the records, the vibe of the night, the mood you're in and the associations you make when you hear the record. New discoveries haven't had long enough necessarily to slip into that warm blanket of happy memories and nostalgia that the old classics have had, but I've no doubt there will be as many reverred classics down the line which are new/recent discoveries at the moment.

[Peter99]

70's and crossover innit.

 

 

Nice

 

[Guest eddiep]

You can't imagine people jumping over tables to hit the dance floor to this stuff. It's "nice", chill-out music for after you've been to an all-nighter.

 

Really? 

 

I don't think I could chill out to something like The Sherrell Brothers....

 

I would need be climbing over tables to get to the dance floor!

[paultp]

Name one.  Thats better than Spyder Turner.  

or don't, I'm going to watch the football anyway...

 

The only record I can think of that is better than Spyder Turner is The Parliaments - Don't Be Sore At Me, but I'm not sure that fits the newie criteria and its only my opinion anyway

 

I really like hearing new tunes but quite often new tunes to me turn out to be oldies to others. I quite often really like the new new things that are recently discovered, but I'm with Pete in that none of them that I can think of stand up to any of the really great oldies in terms of quality. Unfamiliarity and rarity; possibly, but not side by side quality of tuneage.

 

I think there was a thread of "funky northern soul" a while back and I said at the time that I'd listened to every tune in the thread and I thought there was only one or two that was any good and that would make me want to search them out. Its only my opinion but I think sometimes new discoveries are given more credibility than they really deserve to be given.

 

And what do I know anyway?

Edited August 28, 2014 by paultp

[Quinvy]

Really? 

 

I don't think I could chill out to something like The Sherrell Brothers....

 

I would need be climbing over tables to get to the dance floor!

 

I'd be climbing over tables trying to get out if that was playing......

Edited August 28, 2014 by Quinvy

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Todays songs writers and producers have a major problem - the pedestal some of the old 60's material is on and deservedly so, is hard to beat with some of those massive productions from back in the day. Even the lower budget affairs where talent tried and failed, knock the socks off something from today in many cases. Plus, immediately anybody releases something new it is scrutinised and compared to, say something 30/40 years ago without giving it a chance. But even I know the minute I hear something whether it ticks my boxes or not, if recorded in 1966, 1972 or 2014. The three recent release/productions from Diane Shaw tick my boxes - I would say that, I am co writer of one of the songs, but a writer doesn't necessarily get involved with the production, apart from the original demo which I have, and didn't. These productions have the same hope and aspirations of something released say in 1967 - no more or less. This last few months I have heard songs that are as old as 1967 and as recent as 1980 and sometimes I wonder why we bother being creative..because they were so good. Things like 'I watched you slowly slip away'/Howard Guyton (which I am sure has an engineering boo boo into the instrumental break with a repeat of a vocal faded off before finished), 'I didn't know how to'/The Constellations, 'I just want to fall in love'/The Detroit Spinners, 'Janice'/Skip Mahoney, 'When we get there'/Paul Anka.......

Edited August 29, 2014 by Carl Dixon

[Quinvy]

I've got to weigh-in with Pete here. A lot of the sounds are new to me, and to be honest I really like most of them. However Pete is right that the music just doesn't cut it with most of the older stuff. The reason it was probably passed-over and wasn't played back in the day is because it's not Northern Soul. It's good soul music (mostly) but it doesn't raise any goose-bumps. You can't imagine people jumping over tables to hit the dance floor to this stuff. It's "nice", chill-out music for after you've been to an all-nighter.

 

Hear, hear.

[hullsoul]

 I just know I can still find night's that excite me,really looking forward to making my first visit to Steve Cato's night in a couple of weeks,still really pissed off I haven't made the new Lifeline yet (bloody wedding this week ),had one of the best night's of the year the other week at Driving Beat,really enjoyed Wetherby oldies night last week.While I still keep getting the buzz from the music..........that works for me I'll still be doing what I do & not tell others what they should do?

Cheers

Martyn

[Guest eddiep]

I'd be climbing over tables trying to get if that was playing......

 

Respect! Lol.

[Russ Vickers]

For the benefit of diplomacy, before this thread gets out of control, I want to clarify my view.

What I find amazing, and for this I am thankful, is that after 17 years of doing niters and events I can stand in a club for 7 hours and not hear a single record I've listened to more than 4 years previously. Not once compromising quality of sound.

This is simply testament to the incredible heritage of black music and the efforts we have taken to seek it out.

 

 I thought that was what the NS Scene was about TBH...seeking out, dancing & listening to undiscovered vintage & contemporary Soulful dance music, that was what I have been doing in the 7ts, 8ts, 9ts & 00's...unfortunately a lot of others think that listening to the same records every weekend for 40 years is KTF....what a joke, i got into this sh*t, cos it was cool, fresh & exciting, we'll never be cool again, but as for the rest of it, thats what I want from my Rare Soul Nighters & Nights.

 

In answer to an earlier post infering that just because we enjoy the scene as it was, i.e progressive...that we dont like oldies, what a load of old twerk !!!...a good record is a good record, just dont want to listen to the same records week in week out....I wanna be enthused by inspired DJ's who know how to rock a dance floor with forbidden fruit, the obscure beautiful soul n funky records that everyone else didnt wanna know, until they were rescued by the Rare Soul scene & become hits on our dancefloors & in our hearts..... sound familar to anyone ?...

 

Matt your a f*ckin' legend....keep on doin what ya doin pal... 

 

Best Russ

[Pete S]

Actually Pete it's about being more open minded and allowing yourself to enjoy the music and artistry of singers and musicians who moved on with the current trends of their time and peers.

 

 

Allowing yourself - can you hear yourself Eddie?  I am open minded about music, I know what I like and what I don't like and it's got nothing to do with it being closed minded.  So the Rockabillies prefer the original stuff - of course they do - why would they prefer watered down contemporary music - it's the authentic stuff that most people do like.

[macca]

Surely this is all about taste (and tempos)? I wouldn't give "Don't Be Sore At Me" house room, hated it then, still do. I think Fortson & Scott and Benny Harper are as good as ANYTHING I heard in the 70s, and at the risk of sounding controversial, that funky edged Kings Of Soul thing on Down To Earth too. I certainly don't see myself as superior to anyone who rejects these records. After all, I did buy Bunny Sigler "Follow Your Heart" the other day. To embrace or not embrace, that is the question. 

[Pete S]

Surely this is all about taste (and tempos)? I wouldn't give "Don't Be Sore At Me" house room, hated it then, still do. I think Fortson & Scott and Benny Harper are as good as ANYTHING I heard in the 70s, and at the risk of sounding controversial, that funky edged Kings Of Soul thing on Down To Earth too. I certainly don't see myself as superior to anyone who rejects these records. After all, I did buy Bunny Sigler "Follow Your Heart" the other day. To embrace or not embrace, that is the question. 

 

Fortson & Scott is a great record but to me it's an oldie from the 80's not a relatively new discovery.  Don't Be Sore At Me is one of the greatest records ever, to my ears, and I didn't used to like it in the 70's to be honest, it grew on me.

[Andrea Ko]

I can't stand modern sounds, anything which tastes computerized, dialogic. Sounds fake and unsincere. It's stroger than me. It's not a pose

[Gogger]

I can't stand modern sounds, anything which tastes computerized, dialogic. Sounds fake and unsincere. It's stroger than me. It's not a pose

 

I can't stand modern sounds, anything which tastes computerized, dialogic. Sounds fake and unsincere. It's stroger than me. It's not a pose

 

 

andrea got the first bit , but the last bit was a bit arty farty for me , could you explain please 

[Andrea Ko]

 

 

I mean that you can understand when a sound is built in a studio (morern stuff) and something spontaneous with real musicians.

I can use as an example the difference with old science movies and modern holliwood ones. When directors didn't have money had to use their imagination to create interest in their public and there you could see the hand of a genius.... the same thing happens with old songs... only grat artists could create great tunes from nothing... hope I made myself clear

[hullsoul]

Fortson & Scott is a great record but to me it's an oldie from the 80's not a relatively new discovery.  Don't Be Sore At Me is one of the greatest records ever, to my ears, and I didn't used to like it in the 70's to be honest, it grew on me.

Prefer t'other side "All Your Goodies Are Gone".

Cheers

Martyn

[Gogger]

I mean that you can understand when a sound is built in a studio (morern stuff) and something spontaneous with real musicians.

I can use as an example the difference with old science movies and modern holliwood ones. When directors didn't have money had to use their imagination to create interest in their public and there you could see the hand of a genius.... the same thing happens with old songs... only grat artists could create great tunes from nothing... hope I made myself clear

thanks for your reply  , i think you have  , only kidding 

[Guest Soultown andy]

 Not bad....in a mediocre sort of way.

 

 - Kev

Is mediocre the new shite kev,lol.