On the green Truth label,   the Stax subsidiary.

Anyone care to enlighten the soul world with more information?

 

 

Dean Johnson hit us with this bolt from the blue last week in the 'wants' forum

Hopefully Dean will cut and paste the info he posted in that forum for a wider discussion

Hopefully, whoever bought it from him (from Expansion shop in Manchester) back in the day will be reading this and will oblige with scans etc............................and with a bit of luck they might want to sell it to me LOL

'Come on down' Mr Johnson

Cheers

Steve

would green truth label be gospel truth if it exists

16 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

would green truth label be gospel truth if it exists

Hoping someone comes up with a pic of one of these.  

I had this album back in the 70s. Someone got it for sure. Maybe Colin Dilnot....?

Ian D

 

Likely to be Truth rather than the Gospel Truth. The former label was the last of the Stax empire to fall. When I got the John Gary Williams album for the first time, the still-sealed copy had every reference to Stax in the label copy crossed out and the sleeve, spine and labels were stickered with the Truth logo over every Stax one.

I would love the Sandra Wright to exist on original, so these sightings are potentially pretty interesting.

17 hours ago, garethx said:

Likely to be Truth rather than the Gospel Truth. The former label was the last of the Stax empire to fall. When I got the John Gary Williams album for the first time, the still-sealed copy had every reference to Stax in the label copy crossed out and the sleeve, spine and labels were stickered with the Truth logo over every Stax one.

I would love the Sandra Wright to exist on original, so these sightings are potentially pretty interesting.

My John Gary Williams LP is just as you describe Gareth.

I have dealt with many copies of the J G Williams and they all seem to be littered with Truth stickers, don't think I've ever seen one without them.

Regarding the Sandra Wright, like everyone else I would love to see/own that Truth OG.

While it's hard to believe that no one has ever mentioned the existence of this LP before - it's not totally impossible for one or two people to own a copy that aren't active on the current soul scene. Although I think Ian's Colin Dilnot theory would have been heard of by someone before now.

Take the Darrell Banks London 45 as a recent example... Who would have thought that existed!

Like most reading this thread, I'm eagerly awaiting more developments on this 

1 hour ago, John Benson said:

While it's hard to believe that no one has ever mentioned the existence of this LP before - it's not totally impossible for one or two people to own a copy that aren't active on the current soul scene. Although I think Ian's Colin Dilnot theory would have been heard of by someone before now.

Take the Darrell Banks London 45 as a recent example... Who would have thought that existed!

Like most reading this thread, I'm eagerly awaiting more developments on this 

John,   although Soul Source is easily the world's number one website destination for information on all things Soul,   one would be amazed how many serious record collectors (of soul) there are out there who are completely unaware of its existence.  And it's also unfortunate that a language barrier has always existed with our Japanese counterparts as there is no doubt they would be able to provide the rest of the world with a  wealth of information on so many subjects concerning soul music.

As you say let's hope someone on the net spots this discussion and comes up with something positive  confirming the LP's existence. 

1 hour ago, John Benson said:

 Although I think Ian's Colin Dilnot theory would have been heard of by someone before now. 

I'm assuming I sold it to Colin because he bought most of my 'Deeper' stuff and offhand, I can't think who else was buying albums from me at the time but someone got it for sure. I'm kind of shocked that this album is now in the 'holy grail' category. I can remember that the sleeve was pretty battered but I had no idea it was THAT rare. Colin got my Si Hightower album so I'm assuming that the Sandra Wright album went to him too.......

Ian D

3 minutes ago, Ian Dewhirst said:

I'm assuming I sold it to Colin because he bought most of my 'Deeper' stuff and offhand, I can't think who else was buying albums from me at the time but someone got it for sure. I'm kind of shocked that this album is now in the 'holy grail' category. I can remember that the sleeve was pretty battered but I had no idea it was THAT rare. Colin got my Si Hightower album so I'm assuming that the Sandra Wright album went to him too.......

Ian D

Which Sy Hightower LP ?

8 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

Which Sy Hightower LP ?

The six track one sided test pressing that now resides with me. Dilnot sold it to Dearlove and Dearlove sold it to me.

Now we've set the scene with Sandra Wright, what is the betting that the mystery album turns up on here within the next week or two….call me cynical but 

 

Edited January 18, 20169 yr by Steve G

1 hour ago, Steve G said:

Now we've set the scene with Sandra Phillips, what is the betting that the mystery album turns up on here within the next week or two….call me cynical but 

Sandra Wright even LOL

 

2 minutes ago, Steve Plumb said:

Sandra Wright even LOL

 

Indeed early morning typing, I shall go back and correct….

 

Out of interest when were the album only tracks played out on the scene  ?  immediately after the Demon release in '89 ? or were tracks made available and circulated previously?

I can't recall  its reception on release but was it obvious then it was a gem?     

1 hour ago, Mike Lofthouse said:

Out of interest when were the album only tracks played out on the scene  ?  immediately after the Demon release in '89 ? or were tracks made available and circulated previously?

I can't recall  its reception on release but was it obvious then it was a gem?     

If you bought it.

 

1 hour ago, Mike Lofthouse said:

Out of interest when were the album only tracks played out on the scene  ?  immediately after the Demon release in '89 ? or were tracks made available and circulated previously?

I can't recall  its reception on release but was it obvious then it was a gem?     

There were plays in the London clubs as a new release.  On the back of the Demon LP, David Johnson states that the Album didn't happen, but if it did slip through the cracks, was it called "Wounded Woman"?

 

Edited January 18, 20169 yr by John Reed

56 minutes ago, John Reed said:

There were plays in the London clubs as a new release.  On the back of the Demon LP, David Johnson states that the Album didn't happen, but if it did slip through the cracks, was it called "Wounded Woman"?

Well, it sure didn't happen commercially but it was released in the 70s and yes, it was called "Wounded Woman". The original 70s cover art was exactly the same as the Soul Brother re-issue. The Demon release in 1989 was new cover art. Makes me wonder where Soul Brother got the cover art from (and album sleeve to scan) if it didn't exist previously.......

Cheers,

Ian D

 

10 hours ago, Mike Lofthouse said:

Out of interest when were the album only tracks played out on the scene  ?  immediately after the Demon release in '89 ? or were tracks made available and circulated previously?

I can't recall  its reception on release but was it obvious then it was a gem?     

I have to say that I don't recall hearing any of it played out after the Demon release, but I 'got wind' of it via my buddy Sean Hampsey who did me a tape with most of the tracks on it. It wasn't very old at that time, weeks or maybe a few months, I can't remember!

I picked up my own copy shortly afterwards from a local record shop. I don't recall there being any big 'buzz' going around about it either and can't recall where Sean got to know about it - maybe he'll remind me when he reads this?

After all, it was 'only' around 26 - 27 years back! 

Isn't 'I Come Running Back' a favorite of Terry jones, and a play at his do in London, Village soul wasn't it...?

so is ' Midnight Affair' the only 45 to get a release on Truth, from the album?

mal

Edited January 19, 20169 yr by Mal C

 

49 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Isn't 'I Come Running Back' a favorite of Terry jones, and a play at his do in London, Village soul wasn't it...?

so is ' Midnight Affair' the only 45 to get a release on Truth, from the album?

mal

SANDRA WRIGHT: Midnight Affair / Wounded Woman (TRA 3201)

SANDRA WRIGHT: Please Don't Say Goodbye / Lovin' You, Lovin' Me (TRA 3220)

 

9 hours ago, John Benson said:

I have to say that I don't recall hearing any of it played out after the Demon release, but I 'got wind' of it via my buddy Sean Hampsey who did me a tape with most of the tracks on it. It wasn't very old at that time, weeks or maybe a few months, I can't remember!

I picked up my own copy shortly afterwards from a local record shop. I don't recall there being any big 'buzz' going around about it either and can't recall where Sean got to know about it - maybe he'll remind me when he reads this?

After all, it was 'only' around 26 - 27 years back! 

Thanks John - figured you lot would of been on it !  I didn't get it at the time - '88/89 was when I stopped buying vinyl and was moving to CD (never got there!)  I bought the 'Over Easy' CD release circa '96.  It gives no more clues - same sleeve notes as the Demon release.

I've always wondered which label David Johnson refers to as the only one that didn't make an offer and as a result he never went back to them.  I would wager Atlantic - there are two songs on the Aretha album 'You'  recorded mid '75 and released later that year.  Could be just a co-incidence  of course!

Been waiting for Dean Johnson to cut and paste his comments from the wants thread on this subject.

Can't wait any more, so here it is to help the thread along-

Here's his post on it after I replied with a touch of excitement LOL (Dean of course worked at Expansion Records in Manchester at the time)-

Gosh Mr. Plumb have a sit down,

We're talking nearly thirty years ago and the only reason I remember is because I regretted not buying it myself. If I recall I put it up on the wall and I don't think it was there for more than an hour. No I don't remember who got it. Yes Ivor, proper sleeve and, I think, green Truth labels not white. As I say, only remember it as a missed opportunity...Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything.

dean

Just to add to my earlier comment of when I first got to hear about the LP, I found the tape with the tracks on and I've got written on the case September 1989. So short of hunting through numerous mags from that year, I haven't a clue what month it actually came out on Demon - does anyone know? 

Obviously earlier than September!

Edited January 19, 20169 yr by John Benson

i worked at HMV 363 Oxford St when it came out and me and my mate Keith Haines a fellow soul fan were all over this because of all the people involved on it.

Terry Jones as noted already was as well. Incidentally i wrote to Demon records purely on hearing the lp to ask for a job with them.

I had the interview but it was a massive journey to get there and it would have meant a pay cut,shame really i would have loved it!

I'd love to see the album as well,another holy grail

9 hours ago, John Benson said:

Just to add to my earlier comment of when I first got to hear about the LP, I found the tape with the tracks on and I've got written on the case September 1989. So short of hunting through numerous mags from that year, I haven't a clue what month it actually came out on Demon - does anyone know? 

Obviously earlier than September!

Cannot give you a month of release but the album first got a mention in the issue 10 earlyish  1989 of V F T S albeit a very small one by Jan Barker , the next time it got a mention was in issue 12 of the same year again by Jan Barker , it was also listed as for sale by Record Corner in the same issue.

Very surprisingly there was never a full review of the said LP in V F T S , looking at the promotion the Lp got those of us who bought a copy were the lucky ones.

Edited January 20, 20169 yr by shinehead

Was it quickly withdrawn by Demon or am i thinking of another LP.

On 2016-01-19 at 01:29, Mal C said:

 

so is ' Midnight Affair' the only 45 to get a release on Truth, from the album?

 

Nitpicking perhaps, but the version of "Midnight Affair" on the Demon LP is not the same version as on the original 7".

It's a totally different vocal take on the LP version and has got slightly different lyrics as well.

Edited January 21, 20169 yr by Sebastian

In some ways the Demon release came out at the wrong time in history. The Modern scene still had enough new material to concentrate on. The Northern scene probably wasn't the right place to play recent reissues. As mentioned above 'Running Back' got plays at venues which Terry Jones played at. I already had the 'Midnight Affair' and 'Lovin You' 45s, and at that time wouldn't buy something like that on vinyl—crazy, but that's the way it was. If I look at my shelves the reissue vinyl stops at around 86-87: the time I first had a CD player. I must have made a decision to buy reissues only on that format.

I didn't have a copy of the album to listen to until about ten years later when I burned a CDR of a CD copy which belonged to the receptionist at the office I worked in. Although the Demon vinyl had long been deleted you could still pick them up in second hand shops quite easily.

"I'll see you through" off the album is actually the same song as "I'll be your shelter" by Luther Ingram, but re-titled. I think Luther's came first, as it was the follow up to "If loving you is wrong" The album is on Spotify if anyone wants a listen

 

Kev

13 minutes ago, garethx said:

In some ways the Demon release came out at the wrong time in history. The Modern scene still had enough new material to concentrate on. The Northern scene probably wasn't the right place to play recent reissues. As mentioned above 'Running Back' got plays at venues which Terry Jones played at. I already had the 'Midnight Affair' and 'Lovin You' 45s, and at that time wouldn't buy something like that on vinyl—crazy, but that's the way it was. If I look at my shelves the reissue vinyl stops at around 86-87: the time I first had a CD player. I must have made a decision to buy reissues only on that format.

I didn't have a copy of the album to listen to until about ten years later when I burned a CDR of a CD copy which belonged to the receptionist at the office I worked in. Although the Demon vinyl had long been deleted you could still pick them up in second hand shops quite easily.

I think I know where you coming from as someone who regards the album from a scene sort of thing , but someone like myself who listens to music from a armchair it was a bloody godsend , I still rate it as a classic album and always will . 

^

Absolutely.

On 19/1/2016 at 00:38, John Benson said:

On 19/1/2016 at 00:38, John Benson said:

Just to add to my earlier comment of when I first got to hear about the LP, I found the tape with the tracks on and I've got written on the case September 1989. So short of hunting through numerous mags from that year, I haven't a clue what month it actually came out on Demon - does anyone know? 

Obviously earlier than September!

 I haven't a clue what month it actually came out on Demon - does anyone know? 

In his article from In The Basement (issue #32) Colin Dilnot wrote : "She was not involved in the Demon release in 1988".

On 1/18/2016 at 15:05, Ian Dewhirst said:

Well, it sure didn't happen commercially but it was released in the 70s and yes, it was called "Wounded Woman". The original 70s cover art was exactly the same as the Soul Brother re-issue. The Demon release in 1989 was new cover art. Makes me wonder where Soul Brother got the cover art from (and album sleeve to scan) if it didn't exist previously.......

Cheers,

Ian D

 

Soul Brother (including myself) got the photo for the Soul Brother RSD issue from Paul Mooney. I just took the image and designed the cover around that (words and pictures) - never seen or heard of an original issue on Truth but we did want to make it look like it harked back to how it might have looked had it been issued in the 70s. Apparently we achieved that more closely than we could have imagined!

3 hours ago, Jason S said:

Soul Brother (including myself) got the photo for the Soul Brother RSD issue from Paul Mooney. I just took the image and designed the cover around that (words and pictures) - never seen or heard of an original issue on Truth but we did want to make it look like it harked back to how it might have looked had it been issued in the 70s. Apparently we achieved that more closely than we could have imagined!

Paul Mooney should know the background to the album better than most - he (Selrec/Millbrand) owns the rights to certain aspects of it I'm sure - unfortunately  I have not spoken to him recently and I have not seen any posts from him on here for some time.    He is still in contact with David Johnson and he did pass  on copies of the Soul Brother release to him.   I know David is helping with the Memphis trip in May/June this year - putting together the Muscle Shoals event - hopefully I will be able to  collar him and find out some more...including which record label declined it.......I won't let it lie!!!

On 1/19/2016 at 01:23, sunnysoul said:

 

SANDRA WRIGHT: Midnight Affair / Wounded Woman (TRA 3201)

SANDRA WRIGHT: Please Don't Say Goodbye / Lovin' You, Lovin' Me (TRA 3220)

 

No doubt you have listed the titles in that way because of personal taste. However both 'Midnight Affair' and 'Please don't say goodbye' are in fact the B sides. with the label deciding to push the A sides to the point where most copies have the same track on both sides, hence the difficulty in finding them in 2016. 'Please don't say goodbye' is in imo a masterpiece within that clutch of labels. As for expansion flogging the original LP, Perhaps the question should be put to John Anderson, as he no doubt imported the item.

Andy

10 minutes ago, still diggin said:

No doubt you have listed the titles in that way because of personal taste. However both 'Midnight Affair' and 'Please don't say goodbye' are in fact the B sides. with the label deciding to push the A sides to the point where most copies have the same track on both sides, hence the difficulty in finding them in 2016. 'Please don't say goodbye' is in imo a masterpiece within that clutch of labels. As for expansion flogging the original LP, Perhaps the question should be put to John Anderson, as he no doubt imported the item.

Andy

And Gary Smelt probably transported it from Kings Lynn to Manchester.

Several times whilst at soul bowl I saw him filling his estate car with LPs for the trip to Expansion Record's.

Think he could have been running shop for JA when it first opened.

On 1/18/2016 at 23:38, John Benson said:

I have to say that I don't recall hearing any of it played out after the Demon release, but I 'got wind' of it via my buddy Sean Hampsey who did me a tape with most of the tracks on it. It wasn't very old at that time, weeks or maybe a few months, I can't remember!

I picked up my own copy shortly afterwards from a local record shop. I don't recall there being any big 'buzz' going around about it either and can't recall where Sean got to know about it - maybe he'll remind me when he reads this?

After all, it was 'only' around 26 - 27 years back! 

Hi John,

I bought it as a new release. Must have been early '89.

Was hugely drawn to it for obvious reasons and taped it for all and sundry (including your good self).

Believed it was the best thing to have come out of the south since Shirley Brown 'Woman To Woman' ...... and you know how much I raved over that, back in the day.

Immediately picked up on 'I'll Come Running Back' as the side to play out, even though 'A Man Can't Be A Man' was a strong contender.

I also fell madly in love with 'I'm Not Strong Enough'.

On all levels it's absolutely beautiful.

Hoped the album would be hailed as a classic in the same light as 'I'm A Loser' 'Caught Up' 'Too Many People' etc. although it faded fairly quickly. I don't remember it selling too many at the time. Must say it 'felt' like we were probably seeing a latter day collectors item in the making.

Was a tiny bit disappointed when others started playing 'Midnight Affair' as it was a track I liked least off the album.  I guess that was the track that folk started scouring for initially.

The very generous Paul Mooney kindly sent me a Test Pressing of the 'I'll Come Running Back' 45 when it was released, a few years ago, which was very nice to receive.

Glad to see that overall the album has developed much more of a following in recent years.

Though am extremely surprised to hear of the issuing of an earlier US album!!!

If it's out there, where did it (or they) end up?

I'd pay £300 for one of those without batting an eyelid!

Cheers mate,

Sean

 

 

Edited January 21, 20169 yr by Sean Hampsey

1 hour ago, Sean Hampsey said:

I'd pay £300 for one of those without batting an eyelid!

Cheers mate,

Sean

 

There are some obsessional Stax collectors around and would have thought (if it exists) one of them would have had it and shown it off to the world.

Blimey Sean, I suppose if someone were looking to capitalise on the recent interest the early bird catches the worm. I'm of the same view and I'd even throw in my Demon copy as a deal sweetener.

Edited January 21, 20169 yr by John Reed

I bought the album blind from a record shop in Oxford as a new release .It was at budget price and I was sold on the credits ,but mainly the amazing sleeve notes .One of THE greatest albums ever IMO .Am amazed that an original Truth copy could be out there ......

Given the title of this thread, it would be nice if somebody could actually confirm one way or the other if it ever came out in the 70's.  I won't be convinced until I actually see a copy regardless of what anybody says !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

It came out in the 70s. I bought it in L.A. in 1976 and it resided in Leeds for a few years until someone snagged my copy. Eventually someone will confirm it's existence other than me I'm sure........

Ian D

9 hours ago, Jason S said:

Soul Brother (including myself) got the photo for the Soul Brother RSD issue from Paul Mooney. I just took the image and designed the cover around that (words and pictures) - never seen or heard of an original issue on Truth but we did want to make it look like it harked back to how it might have looked had it been issued in the 70s. Apparently we achieved that more closely than we could have imagined!

Well yep. Paul must have got sent the original album artwork from somewhere or other. Obviously we'd need a scan of the original 70s release against the Soul Brothers RSD reissue but, believe me, it's the exact same photo. I dunno about the copy or font details (it has been 37-38 odd years since I last studied it) and the sleeve on mine was pretty battered I seem to remember. 

I actually remember being slightly disappointed with the Demon reissue because they DIDN'T use the original artwork but a reconstructed modern one instead which I thought was odd. 

It doesn't surprise me that it should be so rare though given the problems at Stax and the fact that their company and distribution was falling apart at the time. There are several instances where I've worked for major companies and found oddball records in dark corners, subsequently enquired about them and been told that they never came out before I then produced a copy!

It only took 50 years for someone to find a Darrell Banks UK issue which apparently 'never existed' before, so I don't see a Sandra Wright LP as being such a stretch considering the parlous state of Stax at the time. That album track-listing came from somewhere.

Ian D

 

 

Paul Mooney is on here of course so hopefully he can add to the story shortly.

15 hours ago, garethx said:

In some ways the Demon release came out at the wrong time in history. The Modern scene still had enough new material to concentrate on.

To be honest it was the perfect time, it was the fledgling crossover scene still joined to the Southport weekender scene where this was getting hammered as a new release and was massive at said venue plus The Kilt, Shotts and Thorne as well. It sold well, great music was getting broke in that era which for me was a golden era in the UK modern scene.

Edited January 22, 20169 yr by soulchasers

4 hours ago, soulchasers said:

To be honest it was the perfect time, it was the fledgling crossover scene still joined to the Southport weekender scene where this was getting hammered as a new release and was massive at said venue plus The Kilt, Shotts and Thorne as well. It sold well, great music was getting broke in that era which for me was a golden era in the UK modern scene.

agreed

5 hours ago, soulchasers said:

To be honest it was the perfect time, it was the fledgling crossover scene still joined to the Southport weekender scene where this was getting hammered as a new release and was massive at said venue plus The Kilt, Shotts and Thorne as well. It sold well, great music was getting broke in that era which for me was a golden era in the UK modern scene.

Really? I was buying loads of LPs at the time and thought I had my finger on the pulse but don't recall this at all. I was buying Willie Clayton, Miles Jaye, By All Means, Regina Belle, David Peaston, Will Downing, Adeva, Alyson Williams, Tashan, Betty Wright, Chanelle, Maze, etc. There was loads of fantastic new releases to concentrate on. Mind you, I wasn't going out to dos. Being a young lad in Kent, there wasn't anything going on about from live shows in London.

13 hours ago, Sean Hampsey said:

 

I'd pay £300 for one of those without batting an eyelid!

Cheers mate,

Sean

 

 

Anyone dug out the Blues & Soul's/Black Music's from the time - always listed new releases at the time........

Don't know much about licensing but if the record was a reissue would it not have been licenced from Stax/Fantasy and not David Johnson Broadway productions which it was ?

   

Edited January 22, 20169 yr by shinehead

I met David Johnson at Charly records offices when he came over to do the deal on South Camp / Quinvy I remember asking him about the Sandra Wright sessions and he said they were never issued on an LP by Stax. But I suppose it's possible that test pressings were made. But I'll only believe it when I see a copy.