thirst for more, no class djs and other stuff etc

[Tony Parker]

Agree with you too Baz im afraid, but where does a budding DJ get a chance to play if there was only massive events and no local doo`s and all the top DJs had the monopoly,

which local events would you ban if given the chance so the scene wasnt saturated with events,

thats 2 thoughts in one day from me

Bearsy

hi bearsy ive got no problem with local soul nights there part and parcel of the scene ,the point i was making his that a lot of the 2nd rate djs think the world revolves around them and have no desire to travel to a venue that might be playing something new or different . and to be a dj i respect you dont have to have the big ticket items , there are so many good cheap tunes that a dj can put in his set just needs some thought and imagination . im looking at this as a collector and punter .

Edited December 8, 2006 by tony parker

[Maark]

============

As Dave pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, all nights are local to someone, are you talking about an specific area, or generally the smaller local venues all over the country? Just a question, not intending to start a Northants argument again.

I want to!! Look at the Latest Rare and Northern Soul News. Northampton weekender, the Elgin's as appearing for the first time in 25 years. Jemco starting a "on the rare side" event in Wellingborough and Full fat and funky nights up for a best club night award. And I know this isn't fair, but the other two bits of news are Sheridans cancelled, Burnley cancelled. Maybe it isn't so sh*t around here as people like to make out. Viva Northants and up the Cobblers.

The other point I would like to make that Tony Parker alluded to is about promoters making money. It's almost impossible to aim for a break even point. You'll either make money, or you'll lose it. If you make money, great as that can be put aside to make up for the time when you lose it. If you make lots of money, good luck to ya that you may make a living out of something that you love and even fairer play those promoters like Jem who give any profit to charity. I'm off to Lennie's do now........

[night nurse]

hi bearsy ive got no problem with local soul nights there part and parcel of the scene ,the point i was making his that a lot of the 2nd rate djs think the world revolves around them and have no desire to travel to a venue that might be playing something new or different . and to be a dj i respect you dont have to have the big ticket items , there are so many good cheap tunes that a dj can put in his set just needs some thought and imagination . im looking at this as a collector and punter .

WELL I THINK THAT THERE OUGHT TO BE MORE SCOPE FOR NEW DJ TO BE GIVEN A CHANCE IN SOME OF THE LOCAL VENUES. BUT IM TOLD ULESS YOU GOT ORGINALS YOU DONT STAND A CHANCE. AND WE ALL HAVE SEEN SOME DJ CLEAR THE FLOOR AND SEEM NOT TO NOTICE AND CONTINUE TO PLAY SO COME YOU LOCAL VENUES GIVE UM A GO . I WAS AT A VENUE LAST MONTH AND A CHAP PLAYED FOR THE FIRST TIME AND HE PLAY A STOMPEING HOUR.

[Guest]

Having read and followed this and a couple of other threads in the same vein I was currious to get peoples opions on one issue. Now if a track has been issued or only demo'd on vinyl then thats the way it should be played without a shadow of a doubt, the original NOT a bootleg,pressing etc. But, and heres the issue If a track has only ever been made avaliable on Cd Or Download say is that then baned from the public domain anywhere apart from your own living room

One such track the Shaladons-- Without YOur Love has only been out on a Cd (as Far As I'm Aware) so how does it get played out LEGALLY or are we going to deprive ourselves of some great tunes. Yes I know theres the "well theres a lot of stuff out there" bit but if we want Different or Fresh then should we move into the 21st centuary and use the formats around when an unissed track is on cd only.

Or is there a double standard that says an ILLEGAL pressing is acceptable in this sort of case

Just a thought and CONSTRUCTIVE comment would be good to hear from either side of the fence

The Git

[thought l might reply to this.As most soul tunes played are on vinyl,thats how they should be played .you are saying atune only comes out on cd then thats ok but very few. one last thing its ok in my book to play a pressing only and l repeat only if you have the original as well, some tunes are very rare and expensive YOU MUST HAVE THE ORIGINAL THOUGH because people are paying to get in the do/quote]

[Winnie :-)]

win youve missed the point its not aimed at any particiular area this is about my opinion of djs generally

================

Ok mate, got what you're saying now

[Sean Hampsey]

So let me just get this straight, from what you've written here, it's OK for a DJ to purchase and play a Bootleg... so long as he owns the original... even if the original remains in his box... so infact the 'ownership' of the original acts as some kind of license to play the pressing?

Is that correct?

Sean

Edited December 8, 2006 by Sean Hampsey

[Guest Bearsy]

hi bearsy ive got no problem with local soul nights there part and parcel of the scene ,the point i was making his that a lot of the 2nd rate djs think the world revolves around them and have no desire to travel to a venue that might be playing something new or different . and to be a dj i respect you dont have to have the big ticket items , there are so many good cheap tunes that a dj can put in his set just needs some thought and imagination . im looking at this as a collector and punter .

The reason i put a few of these thoughts to you Tony is really because im relatively new to the scene and it was local soul doos that i first went too and now ive got the bug and have recently been getting out further afield and doing a couple of nighters and visiting more eastablished events further afield.

I have only come accross a couple of dj`s i believe are not as good as others and if i knew they were playing at a certain venue i may think twice but if the rest of the line up was good i would still attend the doo, if they were that bad would the promoter use them or anyone else use them either come to think of it, if the full dj line up was not as good as some said dj`s surely that event wouldnt last very long at all or would it. the dance floor dictates the evening for me and if thats not at all busy then that dj just does not suit that venue no matter how good thier box and dj`ing skills are.

I have seen a very good dj play at a local night and kept the floor empty for nearly all of thier slot (50 minutes) and didnt seem to care, is that the punters fault for not maybe knowing some very good and rare tunes or was the dj not in touch with the punters, the said dj had a lateish slot too so knew the type of tunes that were filling the floor, is that not egotisic and thoughtless.

another view

[Guest kev such]

morning.

i was just on my way to earn an honest crust when i saw this thread, Well bugger me, here we go again.

Sorry couldnt make the embankment last night had to artex a bloody ceiling in Daventry, GREAT!!!

i used to run a few Northern do's in germany when i was in the mob, at Hameln. In the mid 80's, the punters at them were all bill oddies, and had joined up but were still passionate about the MUSIC.

Then i came out, got married, split up and got back on the scene.

i dug my vinyl collection out of the loft, dusted them off and started djing agian,i went to many venues around the country and enjoyed most of them. IMHO i do get annoyed at going to venues and not being able to dance, but thats maybe just me.

There is nothing wrong with playing well tested oldies, newies whatever. But the whole evening doesnt have to be raries,myself, jem,steve brown,mellors and mark d all play the usual stuff, but we DO put other stuff into the mix, 2 tracks im loving at the mo, The Tempests, what ya gonna do, Baby Huey, just being careful. i personaly had not heard these before, thought they are great dancers so i play them out, if they dont go down too well, which they have, i will find something else to drop in.

on the issue of the origional format, i prefer VINYL, some of the toons i want are out of my humble price range, however if i can get in on a reissue i will, until i can afford or find the origional and then i replace the boot with the proper one, so if little known dj's just want to earn some money putting on local do's for their own financial gain then why have i just spent £200.00 on Roy hamilton, £130.00 on Eskew Reeder, £90.00 on Baby Huey and £100.00 on Gino. Oh yeah cos im a wannabe who wants to see my name in lights.

Got to go now and earn the wedge for my next track. Dont pity me.

Kev.

[Ady Potts]

morning.

.......so if little known dj's just want to earn some money putting on local do's for their own financial gain then why have i just spent £200.00 on Roy hamilton, £130.00 on Eskew Reeder, £90.00 on Baby Huey and £100.00 on Gino. Oh yeah cos im a wannabe who wants to see my name in lights.....

Kev.

Hi Kev,

I'm a little confused by what you have said here.

Do you put on a local do?

If yes, & you have used the proceeds to buy the records you mention, then surely that is for your own financial gain, is it not? or am I missing the plot?

Regards,

pottsy

[Guest]

morning.

i was just on my way to earn an honest crust when i saw this thread, Well bugger me, here we go again.

Sorry couldnt make the embankment last night had to artex a bloody ceiling in Daventry, GREAT!!!

i used to run a few Northern do's in germany when i was in the mob, at Hameln. In the mid 80's, the punters at them were all bill oddies, and had joined up but were still passionate about the MUSIC.

Then i came out, got married, split up and got back on the scene.

i dug my vinyl collection out of the loft, dusted them off and started djing agian,i went to many venues around the country and enjoyed most of them. IMHO i do get annoyed at going to venues and not being able to dance, but thats maybe just me.

There is nothing wrong with playing well tested oldies, newies whatever. But the whole evening doesnt have to be raries,myself, jem,steve brown,mellors and mark d all play the usual stuff, but we DO put other stuff into the mix, 2 tracks im loving at the mo, The Tempests, what ya gonna do, Baby Huey, just being careful. i personaly had not heard these before, thought they are great dancers so i play them out, if they dont go down too well, which they have, i will find something else to drop in.

on the issue of the origional format, i prefer VINYL, some of the toons i want are out of my humble price range, however if i can get in on a reissue i will, until i can afford or find the origional and then i replace the boot with the proper one, so if little known dj's just want to earn some money putting on local do's for their own financial gain then why have i just spent £200.00 on Roy hamilton, £130.00 on Eskew Reeder, £90.00 on Baby Huey and £100.00 on Gino. Oh yeah cos im a wannabe who wants to see my name in lights.

Got to go now and earn the wedge for my next track. Dont pity me.

Kev.

Have to say Kev! if you keep buying tracks like that , i will have to seriously consider wether or not you dj at any of our events! they are just far to "cutting edge" for us, what were you thinking of!!!...Sharonettes, Destiny Orchestra etc. fine! even a bit of Tina Charles ( as long as they are on original issue)...but these turkeys!! ttttttttt... ....see you Sunday all being well mate!...p.s could you bring the Gino track with you, i am gonna have to have it back! police intrest in it or something?...honest

Edited December 9, 2006 by jemco

[Guest Andy BB]

then why have i just spent £200.00 on Roy hamilton, £130.00 on Eskew Reeder, £90.00 on Baby Huey and £100.00 on Gino. Oh yeah cos im a wannabe who wants to see my name in lights.

Got to go now and earn the wedge for my next track. Dont pity me.

Kev.

Good on you Kev!

It's refreshing to see a man who's not ashamed to buy cheapies and be proud of them.

Come on the rest of you, stop being so snobby!

[Guest]

OK, SOULFUL BOB...but how do we know that the DJ has the original! he could be lying! how would it work? i suppose just before he played the pressing he could have the original to hand and then we could, say have someone like John Manship come up and authenticate it ,obviously we would have to turn the lights on so he could see it properly, once John had given the thumbs up bingo! we could turn the lights back off..and hey presto we are away!...yeah think that could work...nice one Bob...best regards Jem

[Epic]

hi bob i may play vinyl carver acetates but there of stuff iv'e had years ask anyone who knows me mick.h john poole andy dyson etc . i had these cut to play out as you wouldn't get to hear them other wise and i wouldn't dream of playing played out oldies like you say stuff like butch's gerri taylor c/u arthur willis, jean carter , belita woods c/u which is the other side of the rita and tiarras c/u suprise you may not know me well but im all for breaking new sounds ask people who found the first ciaros 1978 £15.00 tim ashibendie cashmeres, little nicky sole to name a few the only stuff i play on acetate is unnissued and would other wise not be heard i have my morales like most d.j's

Would that be David Morales then?

[Guest]

Hi Kev,

I'm a little confused by what you have said here.

Do you put on a local do?

If yes, & you have used the proceeds to buy the records you mention, then surely that is for your own financial gain, is it not? or am I missing the plot?

Regards,

pottsy

I am having to write this on Jemco's computer as i am away from home, allowed out of the box wahoo.

in response to your questions in run the Cream Cracker Club in rothwell, northants. i run it three nights a year.

the money made from the do's does goes towards buying records if i make a profit, which is rare. as the last one was in August last year the money i have spent this month on the afore mentioned tracks have come from my illgoten gains. Also the point i am trying to make is that the records i buy wether it be with money made form the soul nights or from my own pocket are not investments as such, as i will never sell them on to make any gain from them and i buy them from a dj's perspective because they sound great and i play them for the good and benefit of the paying punters not for my own personal satisfaction, well not entirely anyway.

simply i just wanna dance me little arse off at soul nights, and thats what i try to put across when i dj. Sometimes it works and others it may not, but im not critising any other dj's or do's i just wanna do what i do,

So im now going to have a big mug of tea with jemco with a brandy in it cos im getting a bleeding headache.

Also i am, with jem. steve brown, steve towers and trevor davison a little chill out night at the Three cocks in kettering on sunday night free entry and a nice little dance floor, start at 7.30pm so if you want to come along with some of your rarer stuff mr parker you are more than welcome, and hey ive had a good week so i will even buy you a beer.

[Pauldonnelly]

This thread has more twists and turns than Dan Browns, Da Vinci Code.

Paul Donnelly

Peterborough (sorry)

"lalalalalalalalalallalalalalalalalal footsee"

[Pauldonnelly]

i,ve known gibby for a hundred years,he is not a dj . his claim to fame was as a bouncer at the wilby george.

however ,the whole soul scene in the northants ,cambs area seems full of twits who have no records other than personal collection standard but want bigger willies,so they fall over themselves to dj ,but they can,t cause they have no taste,class or imagination, get to lifeline ,the union or manchester where top stuff is being played.

you never see any of these so called local dj,s anywhere decent ever

Morning Terry, you ok mate?

I'm sorry I can't get to these 'decent events' you refer to. Personal comittments this last 24 months have to a degree put the kibosh on traveling up and down the country to venues which DO attempt to keep the type of scene you and I grew up with alive.

I attempt to support our local scene which I agree are oldie's orientated apart from Stamford soul with Poke where right accross the board is encouraged.

The full of twits, who have a no records, who have no taste/imagination comments to a degree I accept. I DJ what 10 times a year and do it because I thoroughly enjoy the experinece however it still to this day pisses me off as a collector when you're waiting to do your set and some bloke with the personality of cat sh*t spends an hour wacking out Gwen Owens, George Blackwell, Damon Fox on boots.

I'd like to think that some of us Peterboroians still show the scene some respect by mixing their sets up in an attempt to appeal to most in the room when the venue allows it...

My last set played out...

Gary Dean - You can say - YOUNG

The Cautions - No other way - SHRINE

The Flirtations - Stronger than her love - FESTIVAL WHITE PROMO

Dickie Wonder - Nobody Knows - SOUND OF SOUL DJ COPY

The Atlanta Soul Bro's - c/up

Ben Aiken - Satisfied - LOMA WHITE PROMO

The Gypsies - Its a Womans world - OLD TOWN WHIE PROMO

Brice Coefield - Aint That Right - OMEN WHITE PROMO

William Bell - Happy - STAX WHITE PROMO

Fantastic Puzzles c/up

Mel & Tim - Forever in a Day STAX

Vince Monatana - Thats what love does - PSW

Donald McCollum - u don't want my love - Dome Records

Walter Jackson - Back in my life - FADER CAT

Exsaveyons - I dont' love you no more - SMOKE

The Hyperions - Why you wanna treat me - CHATTAHOOCHEE

The Symbolics- I'm gonna get you back - PLUT

Mitchell Brathtwaite - Youve been a long time coming PROBE WHITE PROMO

The Intros - Stop look and listen - JAMIE

Maurice Williams c/up

Nowhere near the high standards you expect however with contacts, a limited budget and some imagination those that you too readily chastise Terry CAN when the opportinity arrises still offer something positive to the Cambs/Northants area/

Regards

Paul Donnelly

[Guest Leigh J]

Morning Terry, you ok mate?

I'm sorry I can't get to these 'decent events' you refer to. Personal comittments this last 24 months have to a degree put the kibosh on traveling up and down the country to venues which DO attempt to keep the type of scene you and I grew up with alive.

I attempt to support our local scene which I agree are oldie's orientated apart from Stamford soul with Poke where right accross the board is encouraged.

The full of twits, who have a no records, who have no taste/imagination comments to a degree I accept. I DJ what 10 times a year and do it because I thoroughly enjoy the experinece however it still to this day pisses me off as a collector when you're waiting to do your set and some bloke with the personality of cat sh*t spends an hour wacking out Gwen Owens, George Blackwell, Damon Fox on boots.

I'd like to think that some of us Peterboroians still show the scene some respect by mixing their sets up in an attempt to appeal to most in the room when the venue allows it...

My last set played out...

Gary Dean - You can say - YOUNG

The Cautions - No other way - SHRINE

The Flirtations - Stronger than her love - FESTIVAL WHITE PROMO

Dickie Wonder - Nobody Knows - SOUND OF SOUL DJ COPY

The Atlanta Soul Bro's - c/up

Ben Aiken - Satisfied - LOMA WHITE PROMO

The Gypsies - Its a Womans world - OLD TOWN WHIE PROMO

Brice Coefield - Aint That Right - OMEN WHITE PROMO

William Bell - Happy - STAX WHITE PROMO

Fantastic Puzzles c/up

Mel & Tim - Forever in a Day STAX

Vince Monatana - Thats what love does - PSW

Donald McCollum - u don't want my love - Dome Records

Walter Jackson - Back in my life - FADER CAT

Exsaveyons - I dont' love you no more - SMOKE

The Hyperions - Why you wanna treat me - CHATTAHOOCHEE

The Symbolics- I'm gonna get you back - PLUT

Mitchell Brathtwaite - Youve been a long time coming PROBE WHITE PROMO

The Intros - Stop look and listen - JAMIE

Maurice Williams c/up

Nowhere near the high standards you expect however with contacts, a limited budget and some imagination those that you too readily chastise Terry CAN when the opportinity arrises still offer something positive to the Cambs/Northants area/

Regards

Paul Donnelly

There Has Got To Be More DJs Than Punters These Days , In The 70s & 80s You Had To Earn The Right ,Not Just Start A soul Night , It Took Butch And Carl Fortnum A Fair While To Gain The Respect They Have.

I Used To Play Records At Soul Nights As A Collector As Did A Few Others eg Gilly,Ion

[Dave Moore]

There Has Got To Be More DJs Than Punters These Days ,

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[Chalky]

If a venue or DJ wishes to play anything other than original vinyl then they should make this fact known. The paying customer can then make up their own mind about where to go. I wouldn't be happy if I went to a venue paid my tenner and found out pressings and boots and cds were being palyed.

If you don't have the records you shouldn't be up behind the decks, there are plenty out there who do. But like I said if you don't have the originals you should let everyone know just what is being played.

btw I've no problems with LPs or cuts of unissued tracks

Edited December 10, 2006 by chalky

[Guest Leigh J]

If a venue or DJ wishes to play anything other than origianl vinyl then they shouldmake this fact known. The paying customer can then make up their own min d about where to go. I wouldn't be happy if I went to a venue paid my tenner and found out pressings and boots and cds were being palyed.

If you don't have the records you shouldn't be up behind the decks, there are plenty out there who do. But loike I said if you don't have the originals you should let everyone know just what is being played.

btw I've no problems with LPs or cuts of unissued tracks

I Know A Top Name DJ Who Played An Eddie Parker On Awake Pressing For Years , (Was A Good One Though,Great Quality) The Odd Acetate Is Ok Guy Played The Tempests Lp Tracks On Acetates So Not To Carry Around The Lp.

Local Soul Nights Is Ok I Suppose But Cds And Pressings At Big Nights

I Used To Buy Pressings And Lps For Home Use Only .

[Mark Bicknell]

Why don't people just get on and do there own thing and do it rather than endless debate, if you believe in your heart of hearts that you stay true to yourself and the music you play then you can't really ask for more.

I'm pretty much part time now on the scene as i really can't be doing with all the negatives, not only are there too many DJ's but there is too much of everything and the scene is bending like a plastic ruler and at some stage it's gonna snap.....enjoy what you do now as for sure the scene ain't gonna be around forever? however the music will.

What x,y,z local DJ plays has little interest to me what's far more important from my own personal perspective is to have my own house in order and present 'Rare Soul' when i'm asked to play a few at a venue is to do it the best possibly way i can within my means down the authentic 45 route, it's the only way i know how to do it, how others present it is up to them, like Chalky and others have said anything less well it's taking short cuts to be honest....Rare means not often seen, hard to locate or find and when you consider that this scene is based and founded on rare records does not playing second or third generation records or other formats whatever the style, era or tempo make it all a bit of contridiction in terms and somewhat of a joke, again this is a personal opinion and am i not intitled to an opinion being someone who has done a few gigs over the years, this debate will rage until the scene does come to an end and there is no clear outcome on the horizon, what should be important is the survival of the scene for those who wish to participate.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Roccia]

I wish to know the members comments about this:

I've seen with my eyes a big name dj plays Charles Johnson "Never Had A Love So Good" on a CD, at a major event. Obviously I won't name him or the event, neither under torture.

[Guest Baz]

I wish to know the members comments about this:

I've seen with my eyes a big name dj plays Charles Johnson "Never Had A Love So Good" on a CD, at a major event. Obviously I won't name him or the event, neither under torture.

Its bad enough listening to that pap on vinyl

[Guest Roccia]

Its bad enough listening to that pap on vinyl

[Guest Baz]

Agree with you too Baz im afraid, but where does a budding DJ get a chance to play if there was only massive events and no local doo`s and all the top DJs had the monopoly,

which local events would you ban if given the chance so the scene wasnt saturated with events,

thats 2 thoughts in one day from me

Bearsy

Sorry Bearsy, not had much time to get on and check through every topic so only just seen this, I wouldn't 'ban' any events just wish some would think harder than just plucking events out of the air......like am i actually offering anything to my punters apart from a line up of a few struggeling DJ's in a half filled room

How many nights do you see where there is 4 maybe 5 residents and only one guest on? speaks for its self really! maybe if some nights were featured less and had strong line ups of DJ's from around the country rather than a complete local line up with people who think, they are 'out there' i used to remember going to soul nights a few years ago and line ups where really good with a few 'top names' and a few good collectors/Djs now the line ups are full of 'other promoters' ect.

Yes i agree every budding DJ needs a break, but instead of saturating the scene with far too many soul nights maybe sending a tape or CD to some promters round their way? that way if your good you'll get booked and if not you wont.

[Guest oldsoulgitcomes]

Why don't people just get on and do there own thing and do it rather than endless debate, if you believe in your heart of hearts that you stay true to yourself and the music you play then you can't really ask for more.

I'm pretty much part time now on the scene as i really can't be doing with all the negatives, not only are there too many DJ's but there is too much of everything and the scene is bending like a plastic ruler and at some stage it's gonna snap.....enjoy what you do now as for sure the scene ain't gonna be around forever? however the music will.

What x,y,z local DJ plays has little interest to me what's far more important from my own personal perspective is to have my own house in order and present 'Rare Soul' when i'm asked to play a few at a venue is to do it the best possibly way i can within my means down the authentic 45 route, it's the only way i know how to do it, how others present it is up to them, like Chalky and others have said anything less well it's taking short cuts to be honest....Rare means not often seen, hard to locate or find and when you consider that this scene is based and founded on rare records does not playing second or third generation records or other formats whatever the style, era or tempo make it all a bit of contridiction in terms and somewhat of a joke, again this is a personal opinion and am i not intitled to an opinion being someone who has done a few gigs over the years, this debate will rage until the scene does come to an end and there is no clear outcome on the horizon, what should be important is the survival of the scene for those who wish to participate.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

One of the most sensible post in ages !!!!!! Well said sir Mark (well you never know)

[Mark Bicknell]

One of the most sensible post in ages !!!!!! Well said sir Mark (well you never know)

I really did not want to get involved with this thread or post a comment to be honest, like i said i'm not full on with the DJ thing anymore infact i have declined many gigs this year and canceled a few too due to mainly work commitments, i get a far greater buzz and satifaction out of presenting the show every Sunday and collecting records for me rather than worrying about filling a dance floor to perhaps be shot down in flames by someone i don't know for trying to entertain.

Good luck and more power to everyone who can stand up there behind a set of 1210's and cut the mustard...it's a little more involved though than simply cuing up a record...cheers.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest]

One of the most sensible post in ages !!!!!! Well said sir Mark (well you never know)

Also agree ,great post and really echoes my own thoughts on the matter. I also think that a lot of people are missing the point some what, where ever you come from on this ,wether it be the issue of original vinyl, lack of local good dos DJs etc. I think it is a fact that the "scene" especially locally as a whole has developed its own strands due to demand, ie. the complete commercial one where they play some northern soul, the more rarer nights! and the ones in between!...dont think any of them are wrong! and also dont think promoters deliberately set the tone for the nights...think its more of the case that different people have a different idea of what they consider to be the scene for them! and they want it catered for...dont see much wrong with that...so ithink its wrong for people to judge the events on the basis of what they consider to be right...i am not a particular fan of commercial or "hand bag" nights cos to me it aint a bout the scene i remember...but for others it is.......to me the Northen Scene has grown up ! i know its not to everybodys liking, but the surest way to protect its future is to make it accessable for as many as possible...sure still hold on to your values and point of view...but let others do the same with out fear of being shot down.....THERE ENDETH THE LESSON!!! Jem

[Guest dundeedavie]

i'd like to see more genre specific venues locally ...ie 60's only , crossover only , r&b only ...with the promoters and dj's being able to explore their own genre a bit more , then every so often an allnighter bringing together the various clubs who would now be armed with a bigger array of tunes from their own musical style

Davie

[Guest oldsoulgitcomes]

Also agree ,great post and really echoes my own thoughts on the matter. I also think that a lot of people are missing the point some what, where ever you come from on this ,wether it be the issue of original vinyl, lack of local good dos DJs etc. I think it is a fact that the "scene" especially locally as a whole has developed its own strands due to demand, ie. the complete commercial one where they play some northern soul, the more rarer nights! and the ones in between!...dont think any of them are wrong! and also dont think promoters deliberately set the tone for the nights...think its more of the case that different people have a different idea of what they consider to be the scene for them! and they want it catered for...dont see much wrong with that...so ithink its wrong for people to judge the events on the basis of what they consider to be right...i am not a particular fan of commercial or "hand bag" nights cos to me it aint a bout the scene i remember...but for others it is.......to me the Northen Scene has grown up ! i know its not to everybodys liking, but the surest way to protect its future is to make it accessable for as many as possible...sure still hold on to your values and point of view...but let others do the same with out fear of being shot down.....THERE ENDETH THE LESSON!!! Jem

Again great post there is sensibility out there Well said!!!

[Guest oldsoulgitcomes]

i'd like to see more genre specific venues locally ...ie 60's only , crossover only , r&b only ...with the promoters and dj's being able to explore their own genre a bit more , then every so often an allnighter bringing together the various clubs who would now be armed with a bigger array of tunes from their own musical style

Davie

See your point and it has a lot going for it But would the same disagrement then happen about the Nighters, you'd like to think not. As to much fragmentation would as Mark Bicknell says quite rightly finish "The Scene" off and none of us want that.

[Sean Hampsey]

If a venue or DJ wishes to play anything other than origianl vinyl then they shouldmake this fact known. The paying customer can then make up their own min d about where to go. I wouldn't be happy if I went to a venue paid my tenner and found out pressings and boots and cds were being palyed.

If you don't have the records you shouldn't be up behind the decks, there are plenty out there who do. But loike I said if you don't have the originals you should let everyone know just what is being played.

btw I've no problems with LPs or cuts of unissued tracks

Hi Chalky,

I don't play pressings or boots or CD's of tracks that are only available (legitimately) on vinyl... and I'd like to think I have pretty seasoned and sound judgement when it comes to doing 'what's right'........but what do you feel if a DJ plays a legit CD of say the recent Wade O'Brown, Donnie Ray, Omar Cunningham or Unifics which are tremendous Soul records that are only available on CD?

Also, I've got scores of unissued tracks, obtained from original sources (label owners, producers etc) that I have on CD and which I often include in my sets.

Should I get Carvers or Acetates cut so that I'm 'allowed / permitted' to mix them in with my stupidly 'rare' vinyl?

Not intending to be facetious... I think you know me well enough.... but just intrigued by some of the postings on here as regards these "unwritten rules" that some refer to.

Furthermore, an earlier poster on this thread suggested that it's OK to play a 'boot'.... so long as you own the original vinyl. I've left a post to ask for clarification on this (as yet unanswered) that somehow 'ownership' of the original acts as some kind of 'license' to play an illegal 'copy'.

I mean how strange and contradictory is all of this?

Who concocted these "rules" and what qualifies him/her/them to do so.... because I've been playing Soul Music out (and getting paid for it) since 1972 and have never come across such senselessness and paradoxes as I've read on here in recent days.

A few questions there that I'd like an answer to, if you've got a mo!

Cheers.

Sean

[Chalky]

Hi Chalky,

I don't play pressings or boots or CD's of tracks that are only available (legitimately) on vinyl... and I'd like to think I have pretty seasoned and sound judgement when it comes to doing 'what's right'........but what do you feel if a DJ plays a legit CD of say the recent Wade O'Brown, Donnie Ray, Omar Cunningham or Unifics which are tremendous Soul records that are only available on CD?

Also, I've got scores of unissued tracks, obtained from original sources (label owners, producers etc) that I have on CD and which I often include in my sets.

Should I get Carvers or Acetates cut so that I'm 'allowed / permitted' to mix them in with my stupidly 'rare' vinyl?

Not intending to be facetious... I think you know me well enough.... but just intrigued by some of the postings on here as regards these "unwritten rules" that some refer to.

Furthermore, an earlier poster on this thread suggested that it's OK to play a 'boot'.... so long as you own the original vinyl. I've left a post to ask for clarification on this (as yet unanswered) that somehow 'ownership' of the original acts as some kind of 'license' to play an illegal 'copy'.

I mean how strange and contradictory is all of this?

Who concocted these "rules" and what qualifies him/her/them to do so.... because I've been playing Soul Music out (and getting paid for it) since 1972 and have never come across such senselessness and paradoxes as I've read on here in recent days.

A few questions there that I'd like an answer to, if you've got a mo!

Cheers.

Sean

Hi Sean

The above is just my view on how I see things, I'd sooner play a vinyl carver than a cd but I've been brought up on the ethos that the Northern Soul Scene is all about searching for and playing rare and obscure US soul records (whatever the price, cheap or expensive).

Dunno about you or anyone else but how many cd players do you see at a Northern Soul venue? From all the venues I've DJ'ed at hardly any The vast majority of promoters have all expected vinyl, be it original or a cut of an unissued track.

Also if I was travelling 200 miles I wouldn't want to get there and hear someone playing a cd I can get from the local record store, a boot or a pressing, I can stay close to home and get that. I want to travel and hear DJ playing stuff I can't easily obtain although thats getting mighty hard now with the amount of stuff on cd etc, I want to see DJ's using their knowledge gained over years of tirelessly searching for the obscure record they've been searching for years to find, I want to hear a set where some thought and imagination has gone into, something that doesn't go into DJing with the latest CD release of Northern rarities and obscurities.

I would however agree wholeheartedly about the playing of illegal issues of records, regardless of the fact they own the original or not.

Now the modern scene and cds is a different kettle of fish because in many cases the original format is cd as vinyl no longer used by many record companies except for 12 inch releases which aren't always suitable for DJing with unless you have to keep nipping to the bar and lav

Dunno who wrote the unwritten rules but some bright spark once said rules are meant to be broken but this is one instance I tend to disagree.

Look forward to that pint sometime soon, got a week or so off over Christmas, if at home and about will drop you a PM

Edited December 10, 2006 by chalky

[Quinvy]

Hi Sean

The above is just my view on how I see things, I'd sooner play a vinyl carver than a cd but I've been brought up on the ethos that the Northern Soul Scene is all about searching for and playing rare and obscure US soul records (whatever the price, cheap or expensive).

Dunno about you or anyone else but how many cd players do you see at a Northern Soul venue? From all the venues I've DJ'ed at hardly any The vast majority of promoters have all expected vinyl, be it original or a cut of an unissued track.

Also if I was travelling 200 miles I wouldn't want to get there and here someone playing a cd I can get from the local record store, a boot or a pressing, I can stay close to home and get that. I want to travel and hear DJ playing stuff I can't easily obtain although thats getting mighty hard now with the amount of stuff on cd etc, I want to see DJ's using their knowledge gained over years of tirelessly searching for the obscure record they've been searching for years to find, I want to hear a set where some thought and imagination has gone into, something that doesn't go into DJing with the latest CD release of Northern rarities and obscurities.

I would however agree wholeheartedly about the playing of illegal issues of records, regardless of the fact they own the original or not.

Now the modern scene and cds is a different kettle of fish because in many cases the original format is cd as vinyl no longer used by many record companies except for 12 inch releases which aren't always suitable for DJing with unless you have to keep nipping to the bar and lav

Dunno who wrote the unwritten rules but some bright spark once said rules are meant to be broken but this is one instance I tend to disagree.

Look forward to that pint sometime soon, got a week or so off over Christmas, if at home and about will drop you a PM

Totally agree Chalks.

[Guest Bearsy]

Sorry Bearsy, not had much time to get on and check through every topic so only just seen this, I wouldn't 'ban' any events just wish some would think harder than just plucking events out of the air......like am i actually offering anything to my punters apart from a line up of a few struggeling DJ's in a half filled room yet again Baz i agree but if the floor is busy are they struggling and if they are struggling how long will they last, how many pictures of events (some bloody good ones too) do you see and the place is half empty,

smaller venues maybe

How many nights do you see where there is 4 maybe 5 residents and only one guest on? speaks for its self really! maybe if some nights were featured less and had strong line ups of DJ's from around the country rather than a complete local line up with people who think, they are 'out there' i used to remember going to soul nights a few years ago and line ups where really good with a few 'top names' and a few good collectors/Djs now the line ups are full of 'other promoters' ect. thats called public relations me thinks

Yes i agree every budding DJ needs a break, but instead of saturating the scene with far too many soul nights maybe sending a tape or CD to some promters round their way? that way if your good you'll get booked and if not you wont.Would that really work if we was honest like you said if there is a line up of 4/5 residents and most events dj`d by promoters said dj has no chance so that is when he thinks " i know i will put my own doo on as i will never get a chance to dj anywhere" is that where the problem lays if it is a problem.

If there was half as many venues from tomorrow i bet within a month they would be double again as there wouldnt be enough venues to keep all the good and not so good djs happy and there once again is the problem,

who is a good dj in whose eyes and who aint a good dj in anothers eyes ?

In an ideal world quality would always shine over quantity and it probably will BUT

If only it was that easy, maybe some of the reasons why there could be so many local nights on is because people are getting fed up with all the travelling maybe, want to try thier hand at DJing and show of thier collection or simply to make a name for themselves or a bit of money. who knows

It would be nice to know why promoters do actually put a night or nighter on as that could answer a lot

i bet that there aint many promoters who have never made a penny and purely done it for the love (from what i gather a good few do it to better thier collection) which in turn can make for a better night

Did all big time promoters start off in a small way and learn what makes a great night

are we forced to go to local venues where there are "struggling" djs

Me personally i know what i like and i respect what others like but no-one can force me to be where i dont want to be,

if its good "I`ll be back" if its not i will find somewhere where i will go back.

Bloody hell thats really thoughtful for me especially on a Sunday

Bearsy

[Sean Hampsey]

Hi Sean

The above is just my view on how I see things, I'd sooner play a vinyl carver than a cd but I've been brought up on the ethos that the Northern Soul Scene is all about searching for and playing rare and obscure US soul records (whatever the price, cheap or expensive).

Dunno about you or anyone else but how many cd players do you see at a Northern Soul venue? From all the venues I've DJ'ed at hardly any The vast majority of promoters have all expected vinyl, be it original or a cut of an unissued track.

Also if I was travelling 200 miles I wouldn't want to get there and hear someone playing a cd I can get from the local record store, a boot or a pressing, I can stay close to home and get that. I want to travel and hear DJ playing stuff I can't easily obtain although thats getting mighty hard now with the amount of stuff on cd etc, I want to see DJ's using their knowledge gained over years of tirelessly searching for the obscure record they've been searching for years to find, I want to hear a set where some thought and imagination has gone into, something that doesn't go into DJing with the latest CD release of Northern rarities and obscurities.

I would however agree wholeheartedly about the playing of illegal issues of records, regardless of the fact they own the original or not.

Now the modern scene and cds is a different kettle of fish because in many cases the original format is cd as vinyl no longer used by many record companies except for 12 inch releases which aren't always suitable for DJing with unless you have to keep nipping to the bar and lav

Dunno who wrote the unwritten rules but some bright spark once said rules are meant to be broken but this is one instance I tend to disagree.

Look forward to that pint sometime soon, got a week or so off over Christmas, if at home and about will drop you a PM

Thanks Mate,

I'll buy the Beer for that.

A comprehensive summary on why you believe 'Northern Soul' DJ's shouldn't play pressings (or CD's) of rare and obscure US Soul records... and a belief I also subscribe to... in principle.

Still doesn't fully address the first part of my particular question though.

The CD tracks I refered to are not available in your local Record Store (I know your local Record Store... and it aint that clever ).

Anyone else up for trying to solve this conundrum?

The Unreleased tracks aren't available 'anywhere' and the Wade O'Brown, Donnie Ray, Omar Cunningham and the Unifics are US independent label Soul releases... that it just so happens... aren't available on vinyl.

CD is their 'original format'.

So what do I do if I want to play them?

Is the answer...

A) I Don't.... at a Northern Night... because I can't... because I am not 'allowed' to play CD's at a Northern night.

B)I Can... but only at Modern Nights... where they'll only get played for a fortnight, because of the rapid turnover in sounds... (unless in 4-5 years some Northern DJ 'discovers' it, gets a carver cut and it then becomes acceptable... but even then, only on a Carver).

C) I Can... at a Northern Night... right now... but only if I get a copy cut onto a Carver?

D) I Can't... at a Northern night... because the above are recent releases... and we don't play 'recent releases' on the Northern Scene... anymore... until.... (see brackets in 'B' above).

Why do I feel I need that pint NOW!

Anyone?

Sean

Edited December 10, 2006 by Sean Hampsey

[Guest]

In an ideal world quality would always shine over quantity and it probably will BUT

If only it was that easy, maybe some of the reasons why there could be so many local nights on is because people are getting fed up with all the travelling maybe, want to try thier hand at DJing and show of thier collection or simply to make a name for themselves or a bit of money. who knows

It would be nice to know why promoters do actually put a night or nighter on as that could answer a lot

i bet that there aint many promoters who have never made a penny and purely done it for the love (from what i gather a good few do it to better thier collection) which in turn can make for a better night

Did all big time promoters start off in a small way and learn what makes a great night

are we forced to go to local venues where there are "struggling" djs

Me personally i know what i like and i respect what others like but no-one can force me to be where i dont want to be,

if its good "I`ll be back" if its not i will find somewhere where i will go back.

Bloody hell thats really thoughtful for me especially on a Sunday

Bearsy

Hi Bearsy, for myself and co promoter Steve Brown ,we started putting on our events cos were left a little cold by what was happening locally at the time, just sat there one night talking about and playing a few of our records to each other and thought why not have a go...we made the decision from the start to make them non profit making as some people percieve that if you make money thats a bad thing, so didnt want to get involved with all that stuff..to date have given just over £2k to CHARIDEE BUT DONT LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT MATE. and have nearly paid for the disco gear....dont want this to sound like ha ha we are the best, especially after the week ive had on here...but hopefully we are doing something right cos we have had pretty good turn outs at most of our nights ...despite other ones being on in the area at similar times...would also add that i havent been to many other nights locally in the last year what ever the music policy etc. that have been dead or half empty they have all seemed pretty healthy to me...so read into this what ever...i dare not comment any more...regards Jem

Edited December 10, 2006 by jemco

[Guest Bearsy]

Hi Bearsy, for myself and co promoter Steve Brown ,we started putting on our events cos were left a little cold by what was happening locally at the time, just sat there one night talking about and playing a few of our records to each other and thought why not have a go...we made the decision from the start to make them non profit making as some people percieve that if you make money thats a bad thing, so didnt want to get involved with all that stuff..to date have given just over £2k to CHARIDEE BUT DONT LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT MATE. and have nearly paid for the disco gear....dont want this to sound like ha ha we are the best, especially after the week ive had on here...but hopefully we are doing something right cos we have had pretty good turn outs at most of our nights ...despite other ones being on in the area at similar times...would also add that i havent been to many other nights locally in the last year what ever the music policy etc. that have been dead or half empty they have all seemed pretty healthy to me...so read into this what ever...i dare not comment any more...regards Jem

Jem,

After the week you say you had on here it takes balls to put a post like that up as no doubt there will be someone who dont believe you or will just knock you for it,

I say fair play to you and keep up the good work and dont worry about differing point of views as MINE is the only one counts

Bearsy

[Guest]

Jem,

After the week you say you had on here it takes balls to put a post like that up as no doubt there will be someone who dont believe you or will just knock you for it,

I say fair play to you and keep up the good work and dont worry about differing point of views as MINE is the only one counts

Bearsy

[/quote

Nice one Bearsy! ..praise to ya !...i am just getting me coat!

[Chalky]

Thanks Mate,

I'll buy the Beer for that.

A comprehensive summary on why you believe 'Northern Soul' DJ's shouldn't play pressings (or CD's) of rare and obscure US Soul records... and a belief I also subscribe to... in principle.

Still doesn't fully address the first part of my particular question though.

The CD tracks I refered to are not available in your local Record Store (I know your local Record Store... and it aint that clever ).

Anyone else up for trying to solve this conundrum?

The Unreleased tracks aren't available 'anywhere' and the Wade O'Brown, Donnie Ray, Omar Cunningham and the Unifics are US independent label Soul releases... that it just so happens... aren't available on vinyl.

CD is their 'original format'.

So what do I do if I want to play them?

Is the answer...

A) I Don't.... at a Northern Night... because I can't... because I am not 'allowed' to play CD's at a Northern night.

I Can... but only at Modern Nights... where they'll only get played for a fortnight, because of the rapid turnover in sounds... (unless in 4-5 years some Northern DJ 'discovers' it, gets a carver cut and it then becomes acceptable... but even then, only on a Carver).

C) I Can... at a Northern Night... right now... but only if I get a copy cut onto a Carver?

D) I Can't... at a Northern night... because the above are recent releases... and we don't play 'recent releases' on the Northern Scene... anymore... until.... (see brackets in 'B' above).

Why do I feel I need that pint NOW!

Anyone?

Sean

Hi Sean,

What year are the unreleased tracks? Personally 60's or 70's I would get a cut done, as I said never see a cd player at a venue. Like you I wonder if the northern scene is ready for a cd of unreleased stuff. If for the sake of arguement cds were acceptable as long as it was unreleased, where do you draw the line? Do you stick to the stuff collectors acquire from their sources that only they have access to? Do you allow all the unreleased stuff on Kent/Goldmone & Grapevine cds that are generally available? Any later than the 70's and they would be of little interest to the northern scene and as a consequence acceptable on cd by the more modern scene I would guess.

So I can't really answer your question? Probably some of the younger elements of the scene wouldn't have a problem with cds and probably can't see what all the fuss is about as it is cd's they have grown up with and probably only recently discovered vinyl But for the older generations who have been brought up on vinyl they may not be quite ready for the departure from vinyl to little silver discs

Either way I don't think this arguement will ever be settled, same as oldies vs. newies and besides what would forums have to argue about it they were settled

Edited December 11, 2006 by chalky

[Guest]

So let me just get this straight, from what you've written here, it's OK for a DJ to purchase and play a Bootleg... so long as he owns the original... even if the original remains in his box... so infact the 'ownership' of the original acts as some kind of license to play the pressing?

Is that correct?

Sean

SOUNDS ODD L KNOW but if l payed 2k for joseph webster l would,nt want knackered week after week aon lots of decks. by owning the original l feel you have this right. to play a boot of it that is

[Guest Baz]

SOUNDS ODD L KNOW but if l payed 2k for joseph webster l would,nt want knackered week after week aon lots of decks.

I would! then perhaps we wouldn't have to listen to it so much when we are out...........boring record IMO

Edited December 11, 2006 by Baz

[Guest]

in my opinion there are two categorys of dj on the 60s /70s northern scene the ones i respect are those who through knowledge , enthusiasm and love for the music , not only play original vinyl but are constantly varying their playlists to keep the scene fresh and moving forward , the ethos of the rare soul scene as always been to try and play different unknown and underplayed records . that doesnt mean that records that have been overplayed suddenly become poor records the likes of del-larks ,george blackwell ,ronnie mcnier etc which were big in the 70s i still consider as great records .but when i go out to an allnighter or soul night i want to hear something different , after 33 years on the scene i still have the same desire to hear records .that are new to me , thats what its all about surely. masquaraders c/u jean carter - iwanna know ,rita & tiarras - suprise , belitta woods - foolish girl , our love is dying etc etc northern soul with a passion.

the 2nd catergory of dj usually only attend local venues, as little knowledge, is on some sort of ego trip ,sees nothing wrong in playing bootlegs, repros or cds .and they usually start promoting so they can dj at each others events and generally are trying to make financial gain

[

who is this guy top bloke. this post only upsets those that feel uncomfortable because of their actions. funny no names have been mentioned ,but all the guilty parties have replied/quote]

[Steve Brown]

Well Bob, You should know who he is. He's your commanding officer in the Northants Soul Police!

The only posts you put on here are negative and derisory. You continue to snipe at genuine people who bring a lot of pleasure to an otherwise starved audience. For the vast majority who are not in your small elitist clique and just love the music, keep supporting the events you enjoy going to. Voting with your feet is the way to decide on what you want to listen to, then someone will notice 'the King is in the alltogether'.

By the way Bob, now that I know your true identity I have to have a little chuckle. To all the guys Bobs remarks are aimed at, don't lose any sleep. Keep doin' whatcha doin'

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

as it goes on to format. I know i like it played on vinyl record but should we care if songs can be played of a CD. some days feel doing this they can carry twice the many tracks in a box.

Again loads of songs have been released on cd yet not on vinyl which deserve played.

People say but these tracks could be found on accetates etc maybe so but not easy to find. it's not like your gonna pop on ebay and find say 5 for sale.

When Northern soul and related is being played we all dance to it no matter what format it is.

lastly policy for original vinyl only stinks. if you are a collector or don't have them all on original vinyl so be it. sometimes you just can't afford or be able to find the original and like my dad he brought a lot of Northern soul back in the 70's when he got into the scene when they had come out and maybe charted so these tunes would be re-issue stuff like Billy Butler - right track, Guy Darrell - I've Been hurt as people say they had been released in 60's first. surely collectors have some re-issues and maybe when they find the original can leave the re-issue on shelf and have there box full of original

[Guest]

Would that be David Morales then?

whoever you are , l certainly never mentioned your name if l knew it. but the cap must fit

margret littles.

if the intention is to play carvers for all the local folk, why go to the bother of having labels printed that are exact replica,s of the real thing, should that make a differance, only to ones ego, people can then come up and say cor he,s got great sounds must be a top jock.

soul sam and mick H paid a shed load for this tune. what morals

[pikeys dog]

my dad he brought a lot of Northern soul back in the 70's when he got into the scene when they had come out and maybe charted so these tunes would be re-issue stuff........

I never knew that Stanley Unwin was into Northern Soul

[Sean Hampsey]

I never knew that Stanley Unwin was into Northern Soul

Oh, yes in diddley Di Do.

Alwayss likediole, merriyly merriliy, oldy worldy Northon Souliole!...

...did Stanley!

[Maark]

I never knew that Stanley Unwin was into Northern Soul

Oh, yes in diddley Di Do.

Alwayss likediole, merriyly merriliy, oldy worldy Northon Souliole!...

...did Stanley!

Yeah, Stanley Unwin, another idiot from Northamptonshire........

Edited December 12, 2006 by Maark

[Guest]

Bearsy, thanks for your positive comments re Solid Hit I just wondered if your friends who won't attend because of all the "slow stuff" have actually attended & made their own decision or whether they have heard bad things about us or have just made up their own minds that they won't enjoy our night ?

Of course it's everyones perogative as to whether thay choose to attend or not at any venue but I just wondered if anything in our flyers, website etc is actually putting some people off attending?

For anybody who hasn't attended for any reason, yes we do play off of original vinyl only because that is what we believe in & we do try & play things that you may not hear at a lot of venues & the occasional tune may be slower than most old classics but they are still danceable soul records. However we do appreciate that a lot of people prefer to listen & dance only to classic oldies that they are familiar with & for this reason we always include a healthy amount of the classics in every set.

Unfortunately you can never make everybody happy though we do try :dance:

Thanks again Bearsy & hope to see you on Friday

Dave