thirst for more, no class djs and other stuff etc

[Guest Bearsy]

What slow and undanceable rare stuff?

A better way it could of been put is anything that aint a uptempo dancer thats not known to the lesser experienced soulie,

these are a couple of my mates im talking about but not them all as a few are like myself and just want to keep hearing new tunes no matter what style ie- r&b, oldies, mid tempo,ballads, modern etc as we are very open minded and just enjoying it all and getting out of it what we are looking for.

I hope this explains that a bit better.

Bearsy

[Ady Potts]

Here's a question.

Do you think Brian Ray is entitled to play cd's? I personally think he is the only exception to the rule...

Len.

why's that then Len?

[Guest Bearsy]

Here's a question.

Do you think Brian Ray is entitled to play cd's? I personally think he is the only exception to the rule...

Len.

So there is a rule book after all,

has anyone a copy please for sale, and i dont want a copy either if you know whayt i mean.

Original Hardack prefered :search:

Bearsy

[Jumpinjoan]

why's that then Len?

My thoughts exactly...... why is that Len?

[Len]

why's that then Len?

Mainly according to many people who have spoken of Brian over the years, they tell me he was a main player in the early days of the Scene. So in a way has 'Done his time' and got nothing to prove. I don't know him personally but see him as one one of the originals...A bit like the queen can eat swan snd we can't!

Does that make sense?!!!

[Jumpinjoan]

Mainly according to many people who have spoken of Brian over the years, they tell me he was a main player in the early days of the Scene. So in a way has 'Done his time' and got nothing to prove. I don't know him personally but see him as one one of the originals...A bit like the queen can eat swan snd we can't!

Does that make sense?!!!

No

[Len]

No

Fair enough!

[Ady Potts]

Mainly according to many people who have spoken of Brian over the years, they tell me he was a main player in the early days of the Scene. So in a way has 'Done his time' and got nothing to prove. I don't know him personally but see him as one one of the originals...A bit like the queen can eat swan snd we can't!

Does that make sense?!!!

No, dont make sense to me at all Len. If someone asked me to dj for them & told me I was going to dj after someone that was going to be playing cd's, i'd tell them to get lost, full stop.

If I was paying good money to go into a venue only to find someone playing off cd's, i'd ask for my money back, or at the very least kick up a major fuss. I can listen to c.d.'s at home, as can anyone else.

[Len]

No, dont make sense to me at all Len. If someone asked me to dj for them & told me I was going to dj after someone that was going to be playing cd's, i'd tell them to get lost, full stop.

If I was paying good money to go into a venue only to find someone playing off cd's, i'd ask for my money back, or at the very least kick up a major fuss. I can listen to c.d.'s at home, as can anyone else.

OK! Sorry about that statement. I'm with you on the 'O.V.O' policy for myself. If others do differently we can moan but it ain't going to stop them.

Len.

[Guest]

BRILLIANT!!!!

[

just been looking at your e-bay purchases oooh dear would you like to tell the nice people what they are or shall l/quote]

[Mike]

give it a rest now bobby yeah

[Quinvy]

A great deal of them will be on studio acetates, in the hands of collectors in the UK and elsewhere.

My defence of the OVO is really quite simple. The scene is made up of punters, DJs, promoters, collectors and record dealers etc etc etc. Each plays a part in making northern very unique and - dare I say it - a little bit special.

The OVO policy when looked at from outside the scene can appear fussy, elitist and unnecessary but at least it ensures one thing - the people behind the decks are either there because they've committed a lot of time, money and research, dedication, pig-headedness to tracking down these records and/or shelling out for them. Such levels of irrational and inexplicable commitment are - to me - far more worthy of attention, humour, admiration, and even sorrowful shakes of the head than some guy with a bunch of mp3s burnt onto acetates at vinyl carvers.

If there are certain records you want to hear and your local DJ doesn't have them then travel to see a DJ who does. If you don't know of one , then perhaps ask around - it's not difficult really.

This notion that people playing big indemanders on boots at local doos is somehow good for the scene, brings people into it, has never been tested or backed up with hard evidence. A very small proportion of new people introduced to the music in this way end up travelling or seeking out new sounds with any degree of passion. More often than not - a local scene is established based around one or two wannabe local types who dream of seeing their name in lights.

The scene loses, the music loses, people drift away, big rarities suddenly become overplayed and tired because everyone and their dog has them on dubs.

One last point - the soul scene has never been a democracy. Just because everyone wants something, that doesn't make it good for the scene. Why ? because the scene is about a heck of a lot more than the punters who are currently on it in this point in time. Even if every punter in the land said they didn't care about the format, I'd still think they were wrong.

Hammy

What a bloody fantastic post Hammy. My feelings exactly.

[Quinvy]

Aha!

So it's not that you want to play / hear the tunes 'not on CD'.

And its not that you want to play / hear the tunes 'on vinyl'.

It's that you only want to play / hear the tunes only on 'ORIGINAL ' vinyl.

Fine policy... if you want to setback your relatively embryonic Soul Scene in Italy... by just a few decades.

Borders on the tragic!

Sean

Roccia understands what the scene is all about. You, on the other hand do not. And thats the tragidy.

[soulAdequateNP]

Roccia understands what the scene is all about. You, on the other hand do not. And thats the tragidy.

Hmm, I'm sure that Sean doesn't need me to defend him but I would strongly dispute that one of the top DJs of at least the early '80s (and one of my inspirations as a spinner of sounds) doesn't understand "what the scene is all about"

[Sean Hampsey]

Roccia understands what the scene is all about. You, on the other hand do not. And thats the tragidy.

And I would say that you are very much misinformed.

Sean

[Cunnie]

And I would say that you are very much misinformed.

Sean

Wish i'd known this before we booked you Sean

Tell ya what Quinvy, i wish i was as misinformed as Sean.

What he don't know ain't worth knowing

[Guest Pete Griffin]

A oldie is only a oldie if your over a certain age 45 plus and went to ( wigan ect)

But it can be a new sound to a younger person who was to young to go to these places.

There are so many Soul 45 out there that have been forgoten about that need to be reactivated for the younger people.

As for a 60s new sound, i look at it like a new record coming into the charts, hear it a few times and it grows on you.

Just because its rare does not mean its shit.

just because its cheap doesnt mean its shit.

The only good thing about cds is that when you put a night on, you can give out cds on the door with some oldies and some 60s newies on so when people come back the next time they will know them.

And they are good to find out new or old sounds that you have not heard before then you go and look for them on original

Its a funny thing Northern Soul.

you get

R&B, Motown, Blue eyed, Latin, Jamaican artists, 60s US Gararge bands, bits of country and jazz That sometimes make a record that has that sound of soul music.

and i love it.

Its getting late ( am i talkin shite)

Back to school for me, my spelling is sh.t

Pete

www.boogalooradio.com

[Supercorsa]

Just a little ditty on this one as it was a comment made by a couple of my mates recentley when i mentioned to them about going to Solid Hit Soul one night, i said to them it should be a good night as they only play original vinyl and it states that on thier flyer with the added comment `it may mean nothing to you but it means something to us` as said mates are more of oldies fans they replied, ` we dont fancy a night of all that slow undanceable rare stuff `

I know its a bit of a blinkered view but would other people think down the same line

for me if the DJs play only original vinyl then that is an indication that they know thier stuff and are serious and dedicated to the scene which should rub off on thier sets they play. so in theory it should be a good night.

Can that reply above also be meaning that oldies nights arent always played on original vinyl in some peoples views.

Thoughts of the Bear

Bearsy, just go to Solid Hit. I can thoroughly recommend it, run by 4 of the friendliest people going (even Stuart ). It most definately isn't slow undanceable rare stuff, trust me you won't be dissappointed neither will your mates.

I wish I was going next week, but unfortunately work must come first.

[soul45s]

A oldie is only a oldie if your over a certain age 45 plus and went to ( wigan ect)

But it can be a new sound to a younger person who was to young to go to these places.

There are so many Soul 45 out there that have been forgoten about that need to be reactivated for the younger people.

As for a 60s new sound, i look at it like a new record coming into the charts, hear it a few times and it grows on you.

Just because its rare does not mean its shit.

just because its cheap doesnt mean its shit.

The only good thing about cds is that when you put a night on, you can give out cds on the door with some oldies and some 60s newies on so when people come back the next time they will know them.

And they are good to find out new or old sounds that you have not heard before then you go and look for them on original

Its a funny thing Northern Soul.

you get

R&B, Motown, Blue eyed, Latin, Jamaican artists, 60s US Gararge bands, bits of country and jazz That sometimes make a record that has that sound of soul music.

and i love it.

Its getting late ( am i talkin shite)

Back to school for me, my spelling is sh.t

Pete

www.boogalooradio.com

Great post Pete

regards

Paul

[Guest]

No problem, Bob, Cos buying and selling records on ebay is one of my business intrests, so you would in effect be advertising for me...incidently i also buy and sell used Alfa Romeo parts incase you own one , you may have noticed that when you were nosing in my ebay ,why not visit my ebay shop where you will find a section for Northern Soul records...i am about to upload a load more 45s in the next week or two...you never know you might find a bargain!!! GO ON I KNOW YOUR TEMPTED!! AND I HAVE TO FUND THE SOUL NITES ,I KNOW YOU LOVE SO MUCH, SOME HOW!....many thanks ..Jem

[Mike]

No problem, Bob, Cos buying and selling records on ebay is one of my business intrests, so you would in effect be advertising for me...incidently i also buy and sell used Alfa Romeo parts incase you own one , you may have noticed that when you were nosing in my ebay ,why not visit my ebay shop where you will find a section for Northern Soul records...i am about to upload a load more 45s in the next week or two...you never know you might find a bargain!!! GO ON I KNOW YOUR TEMPTED!! AND I HAVE TO FUND THE SOUL NITES ,I KNOW YOU LOVE SO MUCH, SOME HOW!....many thanks ..Jem

did ask that give this part of thread a rest

take it to pms

[Tony Parker]

Wish i'd known this before we booked you Sean

Tell ya what Quinvy, i wish i was as misinformed as Sean.

What he don't know ain't worth knowing

think the confusion here is between the modern and rare60s fraternity , i to like my modern soul on cd, its easier to burn

[Speedlimit]

[hello potsy,

nice try ,yes l collect british as you know.however are you seriously saying that just because l collect british tunes on original labels, that l should,nt want to go and hear mind blowing 6,ts and 7,ts such as joseph webster, arthur willis ,the mellow souls, the chasers ,the primers,the awsome jean carter; teardrop or the brilliant, brilliant group sound covered up as belita woods.

you can,t be serious this is just what l mean about these local dj,s they don,t want to hear these tunes and never will

the venues l slate, have dj,s that play bootlegs ,pressings and worst of all bootleg acetates with stuck on photostat labels. how would you feel if you payed 4or 5k for a tune only to have someone do this to you. to play cd,s is unbelievable .when they do play real tunes they show no imagination, knowledge or flair.

you were at st.ives in october 6or 7 records were played 3or 4 times . did we hear great oldies like toby bowe, chico lamar , the penetrations anything by ty karim no not a bit of it we got joy lovejoy and gary lewis, the same thing happened at the velvelettes all oldies, l never expected any other , quite happy about it , what did we get 6 or 7 tunes again played 3 or 4 times no imagination no knowledge.

this is because these people put being a dj before the music, the tail wagging the dog..

l have been on this scene 36 years continuously with no 30 year break,why do l still want to hear superb tunes that l dont know ,but these guys dont. people pay good money to go to soul do,s what to be fed mediocrity. you have great tunes so you should understand this. it is not the music l dislike its the bad dj,s remember the emporer has new clothesquote name='pottsy' date='Dec 4 2006, 10:27 PM' post='390833']

Terry, what intrigues me is you keep saying about places like lifeline & progressive venues, yet you collect u.k. pressed oldies. not knocking that for a second as so do i. but was just wondering...lets say you were at a venue somewhere, the d.j. was playing things like Chubby Checker, Tony Middleton, H.Lands etc. you turn round to your mates & say sod this & go up to the decks to have a moan, but you're confronted by a d.j. playing from a box full of mint u.k., would you tell him to get a life? or say blindin set mate? Just a thought

hi bob i may play vinyl carver acetates but there of stuff iv'e had years ask anyone who knows me mick.h john poole andy dyson etc . i had these cut to play out as you wouldn't get to hear them other wise and i wouldn't dream of playing played out oldies like you say stuff like butch's gerri taylor c/u arthur willis, jean carter , belita woods c/u which is the other side of the rita and tiarras c/u suprise you may not know me well but im all for breaking new sounds ask people who found the first ciaros 1978 £15.00 tim ashibendie cashmeres, little nicky sole to name a few the only stuff i play on acetate is unnissued and would other wise not be heard i have my morales like most d.j's

[Guest Bearsy]

Bearsy, just go to Solid Hit. I can thoroughly recommend it, run by 4 of the friendliest people going (even Stuart ). It most definately isn't slow undanceable rare stuff, trust me you won't be dissappointed neither will your mates.

I wish I was going next week, but unfortunately work must come first.

Thanks Supercorsa for the nudge,

I have met Gene on a good few occasions and know his music which may i add is class, it wont stop me from going as thats what its all about for me but a couple of me mates are a bit stuck in thier ways so unlucky for them as it thier loss.

The only problem for me is trying to go to all these doo`s so im suggesting making a 4 day weekend as from now.

i will check for the next date

Bearsy

[Guest Bogue]

So Brian Rae, one of the most respected, & as i remember, likeable & approachable Dj's on the scene, who was at the forefront when a lot of the contributers on here were still in nappies is suddenly a heathen who should be shunned & banned from Dj'ing.

Jesus christ, i think i've seen it all now !

I think a few people here could do with a bit of an Ego reduction !

Vinyl is for collectors (& i love collecting), Music is for listening to, dancing to, & having a good time to, whatever the format ! Surely to god ?

[Guest Dodger]

Vinyl is for collectors (& i love collecting), Music is for listening to, dancing to, & having a good time to, whatever the format ! Surely to god ?

Just about the most succinct and sensible one-liner I've seen on this dreary old subject yet.

[Maark]

Just about the most succinct and sensible one-liner I've seen on this dreary old subject yet.

I'll second that!! Nice one Bogue.

[Sean Hampsey]

I think a few people here could do with a bit of an Ego reduction !

Vinyl is for collectors (& i love collecting), Music is for listening to, dancing to, & having a good time to, whatever the format ! Surely to god ?

Brilliantly put!

I think we are on exactly the same page.

Well done that man!

Sean

[Guest hammy]

The preference for OVO has nothing to do with having a huge ego. It's hard to really clarify how a punter - like myself - is showing a huge ego by preferring to hear in all instances possible 'real deal DJs' with collections backed up with knowledge and experience.

The truly monstrous examples of ego I've witnessed in my 10 years on the scene sure ain't collectors or even collector DJs. It's the relentless chase - by those 'out of the loop' - to have records ( usually broken by someone else) on dubs. Once acquired, these amateurs bask in the dancefloor reaction at their local british legion.

To me, this has brought the scene to its knees and totally turned me off most of it.

Again we're drifting down that 'red herring' route of (and I paraphrase) " it's about dancing, who cares what format it's on" and - I would admit - if you view the scene is simply a dance-based scene of casual observers then this makes perfect sense. However, once you reach that point you do lose something of the uniqueness of the rare soul/northern scene and that uniqueness is what separates and distinguishes it from the plethora of other dance scenes out there.

The last thing I'll say is that - for DJs - I don't necessarily respect people purely for the records they own or they have bought. It's one part of the recipe - or a piece of a jigsaw.For me to even turn my head and listen, it has to be in place. I'm sorry if this alienates certain people. I'd rather hear a guy play 30 records that are original and cost 10 quid - if I want to hear the Mello Souls, I know which DJs have it, where they play, so I'll go there.

If the scene was full of more aspiring local DJs playing £10-£20 records they could afford, wouldn't it be a better place? Where's the ego in that, I ask ? Gimme that over a double sided dub of Deon jackson and Soul Incorporated any day.

Make no mistake though - it's possible for someone to have all their own records, be a knowledgeable collector, have brilliant records and still put together a set that is tripe. For me though - they have earned the right to put together a set to be judged as 'brilliant' 'tripe' or anything else. That is key.

Hammy

Edited December 8, 2006 by hammy

[Winnie :-)]

Records have never been 'overlooked by the scene' due to OVO in the past. It simply restricts the roster of DJs to those who have listened to a lot of soul music and dedicated much of their life to tracking it down - a good start for any aspiring class DJ .

As I detailed in my previous posting, collectors of studio acetates and mastertapes dedicate their time ensuring these very tracks aren't overlooked and to ensure they get some sort of belated recognition. Now you do seem to have some odd inbuilt bias towards defining the scene as some metaphorical communal dancefloor of people who must be pleased at all times - but these trainspotters and chinstrokers I speak of are part of the scene as well.

Getting back to my point - If you mean a track on a current CD of , let's just say for arguments sake ( careful winston that's argument in the lower case ), unreleased 60s stuff many will come from either master tapes or studio acetates.

Given the countless collections of one -offs, studio acetates and mastertapes out there, it's very rarely only available on CD. There will be usually someone with either an original studio acetate or a dub taken from the mastertape under permission from the owner etc etc etc

Yours unelitistly

Hammy

=============

I do have a bias toward the dance floor, and you find that odd, why's that then?? Ultimately I trust the collective viewpoint of any given track over that of the individual, who is basically promoting his/her own taste, whereas the dance floor reflects an concensus. I do recognise people enjoy the scene in different ways and have no problem with that providing there is emphasis on the word 'enjoy'. Take your point that a lot of times there may be a more "legit" format to play something off than CD, just think its a very rigid view which IMO could stop the scene progressing. The beauty of the scene is that people can hold differing views and not lose any sleep because of them, at least in most cases

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

The preference for OVO has nothing to do with having a huge ego. It's hard to really clarify how a punter - like myself - is showing a huge ego by preferring to hear in all instances possible 'real deal DJs' with collections backed up with knowledge and experience.

The truly monstrous examples of ego I've witnessed in my 10 years on the scene sure ain't collectors or even collector DJs. It's the relentless chase - by those 'out of the loop' - to have records ( usually broken by someone else) on dubs. Once acquired, these amateurs bask in the dancefloor reaction at their local british legion.

To me, this has brought the scene to its knees and totally turned me off most of it.

Again we're drifting down that 'red herring' route of (and I paraphrase) " it's about dancing, who cares what format it's on" and - I would admit - if you view the scene is simply a dance-based scene of casual observers then this makes perfect sense. However, once you reach that point you do lose something of the uniqueness of the rare soul/northern scene and that uniqueness is what separates and distinguishes it from the plethora of other dance scenes out there.

The last thing I'll say is that - for DJs - I don't necessarily respect people purely for the records they own or they have bought. It's one part of the recipe - or a piece of a jigsaw.For me to even turn my head and listen, it has to be in place. I'm sorry if this alienates certain people. I'd rather hear a guy play 30 records that are original and cost 10 quid - if I want to hear the Mello Souls, I know which DJs have it, where they play, so I'll go there.

If the scene was full of more aspiring local DJs playing £10-£20 records they could afford, wouldn't it be a better place? Where's the ego in that, I ask ? Gimme that over a double sided dub of Deon jackson and Soul Incorporated any day.

Make no mistake though - it's possible for someone to have all their own records, be a knowledgeable collector, have brilliant records and still put together a set that is tripe. For me though - they have earned the right to put together a set to be judged as 'brilliant' 'tripe' or anything else. That is key.

Hammy

Hi Hammy, dont disagree with the sentiment of what your suggesting and dont wanna involve myself in the cd / dub debate..but would ask you to consider this . I think a lot of the situation regarding playing cds ,dubs etc. at local nites, is in good part due to the changing nature of the scene...most of the people who are still interested in attending soul nights are of a certain age, with a few exceptions....many years ago , like me they new they had to travel further a field to hear the rare or new sounds and on the whole they were only available on the original vinyl anyway...point is when you are younger like we all were then ,you had no reason not to go as we didnt have the burden of responsibilities we all share in one way or another now..then it was a true youth culture....i think a lot of people at a local level , still retain a healthy intrest in the music but rightly or wrongly it has to fit into their life style...hence the growth in popularity of the local soulnite, they would probably argue that why should we not hear something different...so i dont think its so much down to a concious descision by djs but more the old market forces taking over.

I would love a situation where everybody played from the original vinyl but in truth i think it has to be faced that this aint gonna happen..this is also in part due to the rising cost of records.. not to long ago records in relation to average earnings were more affordable ,but unless you have always managed to maintain your collection, (and i salute those who have), buying records now can be a more than costly business for your average jo unless they sacrifice the family silver...i have seen early 70s pressings make over £50 on ebay.......i dont propose to know all the answers and dont know where the scene will go but hope you find some of this rellevent...regards Jem

Edited December 8, 2006 by jemco

[Guest Andy BB]

Has anyone seen my Groundhog?

[Guest hammy]

=============

I do have a bias toward the dance floor, and you find that odd, why's that then?? Ultimately I trust the collective viewpoint of any given track over that of the individual, who is basically promoting his/her own taste, whereas the dance floor reflects an concensus. I do recognise people enjoy the scene in different ways and have no problem with that providing there is emphasis on the word 'enjoy'. Take your point that a lot of times there may be a more "legit" format to play something off than CD, just think its a very rigid view which IMO could stop the scene progressing. The beauty of the scene is that people can hold differing views and not lose any sleep because of them, at least in most cases

Winnie:-)

Hello Winston

Many thanks for your typically erudite and verbose reply. It brightens up my workday to read them. I often wonder how those 'oldies-loving' men and women of the scene, barracked by the chin stroking elitists, carry on in the face of such soul sectarianism by the likes of me. Thankfully they have people like you to stand up for them as they are straffed by snobbery.

I have detected in your posts a tendency to define ostensibly valid points of debate, but then fail to clarify your terms. For example - I haven't a clue what a 'dancefloor consensus' is, but I'm going to have a guess. My guess is that it's lots of happy and smiling people enjoying " this fantastic underground scene of ours " full of " great camaraderie and good times" listening to those 200 records over and over again that you " won't hear anywhere else" - well unless you watch endless catfood, fast food chicken, insurance adverts and episodes of Heartbeat.

The soul equivalent of fast food: quick, easy, familiar, bad for you in the long term, and for those with no imagination. For me - this is a very boring world.

Your counterargument proposes it's rigid to suggest that CDs can't be played at that 'holds the scene back. If you read the post in it's entirity, you'll see the crux of my argument is that CDs of items available on their original format / the proliferation of bootlegged big ticket items hold the scene back.

hammy

Edited December 8, 2006 by hammy

[Guest hammy]

huh huh

Edited December 8, 2006 by hammy

[Speedlimit]

Has anyone seen my Groundhog?

ok think this as gone far enough to far from baz'z original statement at the end of the day if the guy was professional about his job he should have shown common courtesy and integrity and thanked both baz and lenny for thier set's and got on with it not slag off what they played

[Winnie :-)]

Hello Winston

Many thanks for your typically erudite and verbose reply. It brightens up my workday to read them. I often wonder how those 'oldies-loving' men and women of the scene, barracked by the chin stroking elitists, carry on in the face of such soul sectarianism by the likes of me. Thankfully they have people like you to stand up for them as they are straffed by snobbery.

I have detected in your posts a tendency to define ostensibly valid points of debate, but then fail to clarify your terms. For example - I haven't a clue what a 'dancefloor consensus' is, but I'm going to have a guess. My guess is that it's lots of happy and smiling people enjoying " this fantastic underground scene of ours " full of " great camaraderie and good times" listening to those 200 records over and over again that you " won't hear anywhere else" - well unless you watch endless catfood, fast food chicken, insurance adverts and episodes of Heartbeat.

The soul equivalent of fast food: quick, easy, familiar, bad for you in the long term, and for those with no imagination. For me - this is a very boring world.

Your counterargument proposes it's rigid to suggest that CDs can't be played at that 'holds the scene back. If you read the post in it's entirity, you'll see the crux of my argument is that CDs of items available on their original format / the proliferation of bootlegged big ticket items hold the scene back.

hammy

===========

Its my pleasure to brighten up your day Hammy Unfortunately to repetitively try to clarify things doesn't do it for everybody. But I am going to explain dance floor concensus as I see it. In a hypothetical situation, you are the DJ, you play a record which by your own admission in an earlier post, you love, and nobody dances, then clearly it hasn't gone down well. You DJ again, and try the record again, and again it flops, maybe the concensus is telling you something. Now if you play it at a forward thinking venue you may get the complete opposite reaction, but that doesn't mean its right for the scene as a whole. It also doesn't mean its a crap record, this scene like it or not is governed by personal taste, but everybody has to be big enough to recognise that, and not just put it down to punters being uneducated, or stuck in their ways. Mello souls for instance, has everything any northern soul fan would want and fits in perfectly whether you're an oldies fan or a newies fan. "The feeling is real" on the other hand, may not appeal to both sets of fans as it doesn't have the same impact IMO. I think this has to be taken into account, because as you admirably said in one of your replies, everyones enjoyment should be important, chinstrokers, and dancers alike. Its clear from your post that you're not impressed with fans who like the same '200 records', because otherwise why would you equate them with people who listen to ad jingles. I think you do them a dis-service, play them Margaret Little, play them Mello souls, they'd dance because the records fit the bill. Its about perceptions, they (I'll include myself) know what does it for them it doesn't mean we like the music any less than you, it just means we know the direction we want the music (as a dance floor based thing) to go. I've lost track of how many times this subject has come up, somebody mentioned 'groundhog', think thats about right, it never seems to go away, but if we're all able to accept other views perhaps it would.

My counterargument re: CDs was not saying CDs should be played carte blanche at all venues, I was saying if a track wasn't available on another format, then personally I think its ok. Nothing sinister in that as far as I can see?

I think its clear from which side of things we both come, so continuing this debate between ourselves must be very boring to most, so will attempt to make this my last posting specifically to you.

[Guest Stuart T]

A better way it could of been put is anything that aint a uptempo dancer thats not known to the lesser experienced soulie,

Bearsy

Ah, now I understand, you mean the Domestos Newies - Kills 97% of known dancefloors dead. I've taken to leaving most of them at home, but got a few things up my sleeve for next Friday, if I think that they'll fit in on the night.

[Guest Bearsy]

Ah, now I understand, you mean the Domestos Newies - Kills 97% of known dancefloors dead. I've taken to leaving most of them at home, but got a few things up my sleeve for next Friday, if I think that they'll fit in on the night.

Something like that Stuart yes.

im not the most educated at English as i got kicked out of school at 13 but i know what i mean

BTW whats a demestos newie classed as nowadays

Bearsy

[Guest Bearsy]

===========

Its my pleasure to brighten up your day Hammy Unfortunately to repetitively try to clarify things doesn't do it for everybody. But I am going to explain dance floor concensus as I see it. In a hypothetical situation, you are the DJ, you play a record which by your own admission in an earlier post, you love, and nobody dances, then clearly it hasn't gone down well. You DJ again, and try the record again, and again it flops, maybe the concensus is telling you something. Now if you play it at a forward thinking venue you may get the complete opposite reaction, but that doesn't mean its right for the scene as a whole. It also doesn't mean its a crap record, this scene like it or not is governed by personal taste, but everybody has to be big enough to recognise that, and not just put it down to punters being uneducated, or stuck in their ways. Mello souls for instance, has everything any northern soul fan would want and fits in perfectly whether you're an oldies fan or a newies fan. "The feeling is real" on the other hand, may not appeal to both sets of fans as it doesn't have the same impact IMO. I think this has to be taken into account, because as you admirably said in one of your replies, everyones enjoyment should be important, chinstrokers, and dancers alike. Its clear from your post that you're not impressed with fans who like the same '200 records', because otherwise why would you equate them with people who listen to ad jingles. I think you do them a dis-service, play them Margaret Little, play them Mello souls, they'd dance because the records fit the bill. Its about perceptions, they (I'll include myself) know what does it for them it doesn't mean we like the music any less than you, it just means we know the direction we want the music (as a dance floor based thing) to go. I've lost track of how many times this subject has come up, somebody mentioned 'groundhog', think thats about right, it never seems to go away, but if we're all able to accept other views perhaps it would.

My counterargument re: CDs was not saying CDs should be played carte blanche at all venues, I was saying if a track wasn't available on another format, then personally I think its ok. Nothing sinister in that as far as I can see?

I think its clear from which side of things we both come, so continuing this debate between ourselves must be very boring to most, so will attempt to make this my last posting specifically to you.

Winnie well spoken for the masses you should be a negotiater for the terrorist squad

Bearsy

[Tony Parker]

in my opinion there are two categorys of dj on the 60s /70s northern scene the ones i respect are those who through knowledge , enthusiasm and love for the music , not only play original vinyl but are constantly varying their playlists to keep the scene fresh and moving forward , the ethos of the rare soul scene as always been to try and play different unknown and underplayed records . that doesnt mean that records that have been overplayed suddenly become poor records the likes of del-larks ,george blackwell ,ronnie mcnier etc which were big in the 70s i still consider as great records .but when i go out to an allnighter or soul night i want to hear something different , after 33 years on the scene i still have the same desire to hear records .that are new to me , thats what its all about surely. masquaraders c/u jean carter - iwanna know ,rita & tiarras - suprise , belitta woods - foolish girl , our love is dying etc etc northern soul with a passion.

the 2nd catergory of dj usually only attend local venues, as little knowledge, is on some sort of ego trip ,sees nothing wrong in playing bootlegs, repros or cds .and they usually start promoting so they can dj at each others events and generally are trying to make financial gain

Edited December 8, 2006 by tony parker

[Pete Burton]

in my opinion there are two catergorys of dj on the 60s /70s northern scene the ones i respect are those who through knowledge , enthusiasm and love for the music , not only play original vinyl but are constantly varying there playlists to keep the scene fresh and moving forward , the ethos of the rare soul scene as always been to try and play different unknown and underplayed records . that doesnt mean that records that have been overplayed suddenly become poor records the likes of del-larks ,george blackwell ,ronnie mcnier etc which were big in the 70s i still consider as great records .but when i go out to a allnighter or soul night i want to hear something different , after 33 years on the scene i still have the same desire to hear records .that are new to me , thats what its all about surely. masquaraders c/u jean carter - iwanna know ,rita & tiarras - suprise , belitta woods - foolish girl , our love is dying etc etc northern soul with a passion.

the 2nd catergory of dj usually only attends local venues, as little knowledge, is on some sort of ego trip ,sees nothing wrong in playing bootlegs, repros or cds . they usually start promoting so they can dj at each others events and generally are trying to make financial gain

Spot on Tony........Agree 100%

[Quinvy]

The preference for OVO has nothing to do with having a huge ego. It's hard to really clarify how a punter - like myself - is showing a huge ego by preferring to hear in all instances possible 'real deal DJs' with collections backed up with knowledge and experience.

The truly monstrous examples of ego I've witnessed in my 10 years on the scene sure ain't collectors or even collector DJs. It's the relentless chase - by those 'out of the loop' - to have records ( usually broken by someone else) on dubs. Once acquired, these amateurs bask in the dancefloor reaction at their local british legion.

To me, this has brought the scene to its knees and totally turned me off most of it.

Again we're drifting down that 'red herring' route of (and I paraphrase) " it's about dancing, who cares what format it's on" and - I would admit - if you view the scene is simply a dance-based scene of casual observers then this makes perfect sense. However, once you reach that point you do lose something of the uniqueness of the rare soul/northern scene and that uniqueness is what separates and distinguishes it from the plethora of other dance scenes out there.

The last thing I'll say is that - for DJs - I don't necessarily respect people purely for the records they own or they have bought. It's one part of the recipe - or a piece of a jigsaw.For me to even turn my head and listen, it has to be in place. I'm sorry if this alienates certain people. I'd rather hear a guy play 30 records that are original and cost 10 quid - if I want to hear the Mello Souls, I know which DJs have it, where they play, so I'll go there.

If the scene was full of more aspiring local DJs playing £10-£20 records they could afford, wouldn't it be a better place? Where's the ego in that, I ask ? Gimme that over a double sided dub of Deon jackson and Soul Incorporated any day.

Make no mistake though - it's possible for someone to have all their own records, be a knowledgeable collector, have brilliant records and still put together a set that is tripe. For me though - they have earned the right to put together a set to be judged as 'brilliant' 'tripe' or anything else. That is key.

Hammy

Yet another masterpiece posting Hammy.

[Guest Stuart T]

i got kicked out of school at 13 but i know what i mean

You mean you "Got a job on a fruit farm" surely?

[Quinvy]

in my opinion there are two catergorys of dj on the 60s /70s northern scene the ones i respect are those who through knowledge , enthusiasm and love for the music , not only play original vinyl but are constantly varying there playlists to keep the scene fresh and moving forward , the ethos of the rare soul scene as always been to try and play different unknown and underplayed records . that doesnt mean that records that have been overplayed suddenly become poor records the likes of del-larks ,george blackwell ,ronnie mcnier etc which were big in the 70s i still consider as great records .but when i go out to a allnighter or soul night i want to hear something different , after 33 years on the scene i still have the same desire to hear records .that are new to me , thats what its all about surely. masquaraders c/u jean carter - iwanna know ,rita & tiarras - suprise , belitta woods - foolish girl , our love is dying etc etc northern soul with a passion.

the 2nd catergory of dj usually only attends local venues, as little knowledge, is on some sort of ego trip ,sees nothing wrong in playing bootlegs, repros or cds . they usually start promoting so they can dj at each others events and generally are trying to make financial gain

Bloody brilliant post. Wish I'd said that. I'm gonna print that, and keep it.

Phil.

[Winnie :-)]

in my opinion there are two catergorys of dj on the 60s /70s northern scene the ones i respect are those who through knowledge , enthusiasm and love for the music , not only play original vinyl but are constantly varying there playlists to keep the scene fresh and moving forward , the ethos of the rare soul scene as always been to try and play different unknown and underplayed records . that doesnt mean that records that have been overplayed suddenly become poor records the likes of del-larks ,george blackwell ,ronnie mcnier etc which were big in the 70s i still consider as great records .but when i go out to a allnighter or soul night i want to hear something different , after 33 years on the scene i still have the same desire to hear records .that are new to me , thats what its all about surely. masquaraders c/u jean carter - iwanna know ,rita & tiarras - suprise , belitta woods - foolish girl , our love is dying etc etc northern soul with a passion.

the 2nd catergory of dj usually only attends local venues, as little knowledge, is on some sort of ego trip ,sees nothing wrong in playing bootlegs, repros or cds . they usually start promoting so they can dj at each others events and generally are trying to make financial gain

============

As Dave pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, all nights are local to someone, are you talking about an specific area, or generally the smaller local venues all over the country? Just a question, not intending to start a Northants argument again.

[Guest]

Oi! "Soulful Bob"...me an Trev have a few choons between us as well

.....can't make it to Lenny's do coz' I'm going to the 'Work's Do' have a great time those of you that are going..... should be a good un

Val

well why don,t you and trev sell all your originals, buy some boots,carvers and a load of cd,s and be dj,s in np,ton he he . see ya soon

[Tony Parker]

============

As Dave pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, all nights are local to someone, are you talking about an specific area, or generally the smaller local venues all over the country? Just a question, not intending to start a Northants argument again.

win youve missed the point its not aimed at any particiular area this is about my opinion of djs generally

Edited December 8, 2006 by tony parker

[Guest Bearsy]

in my opinion there are two catergorys of dj on the 60s /70s northern scene the ones i respect are those who through knowledge , enthusiasm and love for the music , not only play original vinyl but are constantly varying there playlists to keep the scene fresh and moving forward , the ethos of the rare soul scene as always been to try and play different unknown and underplayed records . that doesnt mean that records that have been overplayed suddenly become poor records the likes of del-larks ,george blackwell ,ronnie mcnier etc which were big in the 70s i still consider as great records .but when i go out to a allnighter or soul night i want to hear something different , after 33 years on the scene i still have the same desire to hear records .that are new to me , thats what its all about surely. masquaraders c/u jean carter - iwanna know ,rita & tiarras - suprise , belitta woods - foolish girl , our love is dying etc etc northern soul with a passion.

the 2nd catergory of dj usually only attends local venues, as little knowledge, is on some sort of ego trip ,sees nothing wrong in playing bootlegs, repros or cds . they usually start promoting so they can dj at each others events and generally are trying to make financial gain

I know where you are coming from on this but and its only a but to see how your view on it is,

If the scene is to progress and move on who are the next generation DJ`s who are going to carry the scene on for many years to come when say in 20-30 years time all or if not most of the DJs of today have hung up thier record boxes,

If a so called local DJ is building a collection of original vynil with the desire to DJ and gaining knowledge by the day but not in the same class as the big boys but with the same passion would it be wrong for him to put a local doo on to get practice and if it meant that a couple of other local DJs who didnt have the same quality of collection and played a few boots/cd and the dj now promoter advertised it as exactly what it was going to be are they really doing the scene any harm and if the said dj/promoter who may make a few quid on the door but ploughs it back into his tunes can that be a bad thing.

where did all the top and not so top DJs on the scene today first start off.

As i do believe that not all local DJs play boots/CDs etc and do have a nice collection of original vinyl.

it is so easy to tar everyone with the same brush but where does the scene go from here without local soul events.

Just some thoughts from the Bear

[Guest Baz]

I know where you are coming from on this but and its only a but to see how your view on it is,

If the scene is to progress and move on who are the next generation DJ`s who are going to carry the scene on for many years to come when say in 20-30 years time all or if not most of the DJs of today have hung up thier record boxes,

If a so called local DJ is building a collection of original vynil with the desire to DJ and gaining knowledge by the day but not in the same class as the big boys but with the same passion would it be wrong for him to put a local doo on to get practice and if it meant that a couple of other local DJs who didnt have the same quality of collection and played a few boots/cd and the dj now promoter advertised it as exactly what it was going to be are they really doing the scene any harm and if the said dj/promoter who may make a few quid on the door but ploughs it back into his tunes can that be a bad thing.

where did all the top and not so top DJs on the scene today first start off.

As i do believe that not all local DJs play boots/CDs etc and do have a nice collection of original vinyl.

it is so easy to tar everyone with the same brush but where does the scene go from here without local soul events.

Just some thoughts from the Bear

I have to agree with Tony on this one, its also down to too many nights on all over the country offering the same thing as 30mins down the road, no imagenation of flair goes into so many nights, the scene is saturated and too many soul nights offering the same, and its damaging to the scene that IMO btw, but hey what do i know i play sh*t

[Guest Bearsy]

I have to agree with Tony on this one, its also down to too many nights on all over the country offering the same thing as 30mins down the road, no imagenation of flair goes into so many nights, the scene is saturated and too many soul nights offering the same, and its damaging to the scene that IMO btw, but hey what do i know i play sh*t

Agree with you too Baz im afraid, but where does a budding DJ get a chance to play if there was only massive events and no local doo`s and all the top DJs had the monopoly,

which local events would you ban if given the chance so the scene wasnt saturated with events,

thats 2 thoughts in one day from me

Bearsy