Who are the NS record collectors of the future?

[Soul Salad]

 

I have far too many questions floating around in my head (and a week off work and already done my Christmas shopping plus heavy rain ALL week)

 

As a "young" 40 something year old with a "normal" but well-paid job, a mortgage (only 20 years left!), 2 young teenagers etc etc. I have seen a vast change in a relatively short period of time with regards to values/asking prices for most records You'd class as decent. I've never been a "serious" collector but always enjoyed the buzz of finding a great record for very little money.

I am unfortunately running out of funds to purchase pretty much anything except a few very well-contemplated/chosen records, nowadays mainly reissues. I simply can't afford to fund my collection as i used to, probably even only five or so years ago had a pretty plentiful supply of £2-15 records to fuel my appetite. I used to buy perhaps 30-40 records a year, now I'm down to maybe 4/5 or so for me i LOVE the music but the fun is going/gone, certainly for collecting - Fast Forward to now, those same cheap records are (with P&P) £30-40 +/++, can't see these records ever becoming less expensive especially as NS collecting is now a very "international" hobby.

What about the teens or 20 somethings who are now into or will be into NS and want to start collecting. The internet really has been a double-edged sword, you can often find pretty much anything plus of course those elusive ones but the asking prices for most common but good records are now way beyond what i can afford. Let's face it a "cheap" record out there is now the guts of £30+/++

I get that NS collecting has always had big ticket items, so for some has always been an "elitist" hobby but..........

 

Any opinions as to the "future" of record collecting for the "normal" folk especially those who haven't yet discovered NS (the teens/the twenty somethings) Will your siblings inherit your collections? (Do they even like your music) Will NS record collecting become a purely elitist hobby, is it that already? or has it already been so for decades?

What are other "poor" people like me doing to fund/fuel their habit? or have prices forced you stopped collecting/buying? (I've found absolutely NOTHING in charity/record shops for years!)

Thankyou

 

 

 

[Woodbutcher]

Same as it's always been , there have always been folk with deeper pockets than the "average Joe" and have got the big ticket items that mere mortals have to dream of owning.

The prices might be bigger today but the ratio of loadsamoney to lessmoney probably remains the same.

[Tlscapital]

And to foresee what will be the scene like in the next decade since the seventies has always been most unpredictable. With the continuous changes of scenery in pace, taste and records business.

But it's still here and there. Alive but not kickin' I would say. Never the same as the decade before. With the eighties and mostly nineties going uphill in quality I would say. The turn of the century was a 'kill'.

As for the collectors more specifically the whole 'internet' thing acted like a 'breach' that slowly drowned the ship. It brought deep-pockets new comers, born-again and outsiders into the game. Prices boomed.

What next ? A crash down of values on most records for less public and an overdose wealth of offerings (with many elder's collections hitting the streets) with no more worth mentioning club scene and dee-jays. 

That 'young' replacement wave once in control will go for mp3 all the same no ? Surely they will want to hear something else than 'tainted love' that was not previously reissued. And if so mp3 is their easy way to go.

[Lovemusic]

Stop looking for the records everyone else is searching for. Dig deeper and you'll be rewarded with some amazing records. 

[Soul Salad]

36 minutes ago, Lovemusic said:

Stop looking for the records everyone else is searching for. Dig deeper and you'll be rewarded with some amazing records. 

Thanks, I completely agree with you, but It's not really about that, agree my thread was pretty "loaded"  i should have been clearer/more specific as in who? are the people that are going to be buying and collecting these NS records in 10 years' time, and how would they afford to buy them. It WONT be my children or any of their friends, they hate my music and a record player is to them an antique - Where will the new collectors come from and what will they be buying? I'm afraid i don't go to soul events so I'm clueless but is there a good mix of "young" people there dancing/listening to or buying records?

PS How much is classed now as a "cheap" record? I fear soon i will be literally "scraping the barrel"

 

 

[davidwapples]

The cheapies mainly disappeared with the start of price guides saying the majority of records were worth at least a tenner. 

[Mithras]

mmm....HMRC...you can only sell £1000 per year then tax....  strange request and thread find loads of stuff in the wild..????

 

[Denton Mike]

ARMED ROBBERS GOING OFF THE RIDICULOUS PRICES PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR BITS OF PLASTIC PURE MADNESS 

[Woodbutcher]

2 minutes ago, Denton Mike said:

ARMED ROBBERS GOING OFF THE RIDICULOUS PRICES PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR BITS OF PLASTIC PURE MADNESS 

That's a pretty thoughtless reply given Ted's recent nightmare ... 

[Frankie Crocker]

Younger generations will benefit in 10-20 years time as older collectors fall off their perches and masses of unwanted records are put up for sale by canny offspring. Theoretically, prices should fall but demand for the choicest pieces will remain high. Already, the market is seeing early signs of cashing out - there must have been half a dozen copies of the Cautions on Shrine for sale recently.

In the meantime, there are plenty of cheap US imports to be had from abroad and British dealers. Research will throw up plenty of obscure titles in plentiful supply. A holiday in the US can still reward the committed crate digger. The very best music will always be available in one format or another, but the rarest of the rare with high price-tags will remain in the hands of those with access to funds.

[davidwapples]

Can just picture the scene in the future.

Here is the top 500 on original vinyl valued at about 200k

Here is the top 500 on mp3 and a house / flat for the same 200k

What would any youngster do?

 

People with the cash will still buy but its got dafter each year. Until the majority of older collectors die it wont crash the price

[Soul Salad]

8 minutes ago, davidwapples said:

Until the majority of older collectors die it wont crash the price

I was going to say the above but i didn't as it's so near to Christmas!

But "who" are these people and collectors in 10-20 years' time? I realise there is a constant supply of new/younger people coming onto the scene but are there enough? - do DJs/people promote the scene to younger people who don't know anything about it? 

or not?

[Denton Mike]

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

That's a pretty thoughtless reply given Ted's recent nightmare ... 

mate you need to leave the sherry alone whats this thread even remotely got to do with what happend  to ted 

[Soul Salad]

Surely many new members are joining SS weekly, there are surely "younger" collectors on this site? just for a take on whether they collect or not/what they collect/how did they get into the scene/do they have young friends that are into the scene/how are their collections financed - i would just be interested. 

[Shinehead]

16 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

Surely many new members are joining SS weekly, there are surely "younger" collectors on this site? just for a take on whether they collect or not/what they collect/how did they get into the scene/do they have young friends that are into the scene/how are their collections financed - i would just be interested. 

Probably be better starting a thread aimed at the teens up to about 30 years old not at the older generations who have been in to the music and scene for decades.

Because if not it will be the same as most of your topics just go round in circles and get nowhere. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Shinehead

[Mark W]

27 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

I was going to say the above but i didn't as it's so near to Christmas!

But "who" are these people and collectors in 10-20 years' time? I realise there is a constant supply of new/younger people coming onto the scene but are there enough? - do DJs/people promote the scene to younger people who don't know anything about it? 

or not?

Even with big numbers of youngsters coming onto the scene there’s still an ever decreasing spiral of those who would be inclined to be collectors. Of those, how many would have the pockets to fund it seriously and then out of those with the means how many would actually want to/think it sane to lay out a few grand on a record? That’s a very small number I’d guess.

Looking at disposable wedge younger generation don’t have it easy. Sure many of us could say similar, but as an example when I bought my first flat it was about 3 years wages for a gas fitter like me. Now same flat is at least 5 years wages, so the comparison I know would have made a big difference to me back then. So there’s less spare cash to most and the vinyl they can buy if they wanted it hugely more as well. When I was 19 I was on about 70 quid a week as 3rd year apprentice and could buy likes of “ Bettin on Love”, “ She said goodbye “ for ten or fifteen quid on Pat Brady’s week in week out. Someone getting in to collecting now is going to need a whole lot more percentage of their disposable to even buy lower mid range stuff like that. That’s a barrier to getting onto the road to serious collecting too.

 

 

 

[Woodbutcher]

57 minutes ago, Denton Mike said:

mate you need to leave the sherry alone whats this thread even remotely got to do with what happend  to ted 

The thread has FA to do with it , but your 'suggestion' that it'll be armed robbers that'll be the collectors of the future was sailing a bit too close to the wind I felt ... 

[Chalky]

Many are offloading collections and choice items now, others have valued theirs so the canny (greedy) offspring will want maximum return, or become a ready made Dj themselves.

We have had many topics regarding cheaper end records and there are plenty out there even for Djs who are prepared to dig a little and not just plagiarise playlists.

[Steve G]

It will eventually die out and we're already seeing a loss of value of certain other types of soul music. But I'll be gone by then, so cannot see my remains caring too much to be honest. 

Enjoy it while you can. 

 

[Roburt]

My collection runs to many 1000's of 45's, 12's, LP's and CD's ... many of which are worth next to nothing.

As I'm in my mid 70's, the wife keeps telling me to rearrange them all -- into boxes of stuff with real value and then stuff of little value. My collection is totally disorganised already (I couldn't put my hands on a particular 45, 12 or LP if asked to & it would probably take me hours of looking thru racks, boxes, the wardrobes, the loft & the garage to locate a particular item).

I have to agree with her, that as nobody else in the family has the slightest idea of what I've got or what any records are worth, what she is asking me to do does make a lot of sense. 

[Julianb]

2 minutes ago, Roburt said:

My collection runs to many 1000's of 45's, 12's, LP's and CD's ... many of which are worth next to nothing.

As I'm in my mid 70's, the wife keeps telling me to rearrange them all -- into boxes of stuff with real value and then stuff of little value. My collection is totally disorganised already (I couldn't put my hands on a particular 45, 12 or LP if asked to & it would probably take me hours of looking thru racks, boxes, the wardrobes, the loft & the garage to locate a particular item).

I have to agree with her, that as nobody else in the family has the slightest idea of what I've got or what any records are worth, what she is asking me to do does make a lot of sense. 

My Mrs keeps saying ' get them sold!' - is this grounds for divorce after 49 years of marriage?

[Steve G]

5 minutes ago, Roburt said:

My collection runs to many 1000's of 45's, 12's, LP's and CD's ... many of which are worth next to nothing.

As I'm in my mid 70's, the wife keeps telling me to rearrange them all -- into boxes of stuff with real value and then stuff of little value. My collection is totally disorganised already (I couldn't put my hands on a particular 45, 12 or LP if asked to & it would probably take me hours of looking thru racks, boxes, the wardrobes, the loft & the garage to locate a particular item).

I have to agree with her, that as nobody else in the family has the slightest idea of what I've got or what any records are worth, what she is asking me to do does make a lot of sense. 

You need to get on with it Roburt, none of us know what its around the next corner. Something as simple as little stickers on the covers of the rarer ones. When someone does come to look and says that Larry Clinton is a £40 record, she'll know that is bs. The non rare ones can go in the skip. 

[Soul Salad]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

Many are offloading collections and choice items now, others have valued theirs so the canny (greedy) offspring will want maximum return, or become a ready made Dj themselves.

We have had many topics regarding cheaper end records and there are plenty out there even for Djs who are prepared to dig a little and not just plagiarise playlists.

These ready made DJs - so who will they be playing to if there's hardly anybody left on the scene?

[Benji]

3 hours ago, Steve G said:

It will eventually die out and we're already seeing a loss of value of certain other types of soul music.

 

That's interesting. What other types would that be?

[davidwapples]

27 minutes ago, Benji said:

That's interesting. What other types would that be?

Doo wop dropped in value as there are less fans as they are older and have passed away.

The top sounds still hold good values though

[Soul Salad]

OK, seems apparent that there are not enough newbies getting into NS? If that is the case i would predict those trophy/rare/Top 500 records will always have a relatively strong value, there will always be an interest in those - just takes 2 people who really want it. Perhaps then it's all those other records that are going to suffer like mine, i have ZERO in that top 500.

OK a slightly odd comparison on SS below: 

If you brought a signed edition Picasso etching in the 90s it was worth about 12K - now worth 6-8K (if you're lucky!)

If you brought a top rate Picasso oil on canvas in the 90s it was worth about 12 million - now worth 60 million plus

Anyway I've got Covid, i really should be in bed.

[Soul Salad]

13 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

OK, seems apparent that there are not enough newbies getting into NS? If that is the case i would predict those trophy/rare/Top 500 records will always have a relatively strong value, there will always be an interest in those - just takes 2 people who really want it. Perhaps then it's all those other records that are going to suffer like mine, i have ZERO in that top 500.

OK a slightly odd comparison on SS below: 

If you brought a signed edition Picasso etching in the 90s it was worth about 12K - now worth 6-8K (if you're lucky!)

If you brought a top rate Picasso oil on canvas in the 90s it was worth about 12 million - now worth 60 million plus

Anyway I've got Covid, i really should be in bed.

PS Meant i have ZERO in that list of rarest NS records thread NOT Top 500.

[Benji]

2 hours ago, davidwapples said:

Doo wop dropped in value as there are less fans as they are older and have passed away.

The top sounds still hold good values though

That was 30 odd years ago. But Steve mentioned "other types of soul music" and I was wondering to which he was referring.

[Tlscapital]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

That was 30 odd years ago. But Steve mentioned "other types of soul music" and I was wondering to which he was referring.

The 'white' 'oldies' northern pop sounds like April Stevens, Lindy Stevens, August & Deneen which in comparison of what they were changing hands for don't achieve much on auctions nowadays for example.

But this is part of the change of 'fashion'. More than that of a 'scene'. Still a scene 'dismissal' doesn't forcibly signs the faith of the records they were playing as the the scenes permeability allows 'migration' of records.

So rarely for the better IMO. Signs of a scene shrinking. Instrumentals are not as much in 'vogue' anymore. Too fast tempos have also fallen out of love for most. Can one call those 'types of soul music' as such ? Me not.

[Roburt]

Does the above discussion encompass both NS & MS or are more MS fans a younger set ?

[Soul Salad]

1 minute ago, Roburt said:

Does the above discussion encompass both NS & MS or are more MS fans a younger set ?

Hi Roburt, LOL That a debate! - I'm into everything, personally i just call everything NS now as an umbrella term.

[Steve G]

3 hours ago, Benji said:

That was 30 odd years ago. But Steve mentioned "other types of soul music" and I was wondering to which he was referring.

Hi Benji, deep soul and southern soul for example.

[John Reed]

I don't understand the obsession over who or what will come after us, both from a scene and collecting perspective.  From a scene perspective, it will eventually die and be reborn sometime in the future as something slightly different, like all youth scenes' tend to do.  From a record collecting perspective the same will probably happen as well, with interest diminishing leading to lower prices for a while, then some bright spark will pick them up cheap, play them leading to demand and value rising again - A bit like what happened with trips to the US in the 80s/90s.  Saying that, for sure the prices of some records in the future may never reach the heady heights of what they are now.

Those who talk about a "northern soul" legacy are either deluded or out to make as much money out of it as they can, as its just a part of general youth club-culture, that's lasted longer than others. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by John Reed

[Chalky]

There isn’t a scene anymore, not as we knew it.  Hardly any travellers and just a couple of 100 hardcore nighter goers.  The music is oldies regardless of the type of venue you attend.  There are a couple of cities with healthy clubs of younger folk but wait till they start having responsibilities. 
 

Whether the scene as it is is still here in 10, 20 or 30 years is irrelevant really but collectors will always be there. Whilst many big money buys are probably Dj driven right now, there are still collectors with little regard for the clubs who still chase such records . 
 

Personally I just buy for my own pleasure now, worry not about others. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Chalky

[22ndsoul]

Remember clearly the doom and gloom as Wigan finished and people forecasting the scene's demise,it will never disappear and whichever gender of soul music takes your ear it's sure to appeal now and in the future to others.

[Hooker1951]

NS and any kind of music will last as long as people want to listen to it , as to what format that is in the future remains to be seen, nothing lasts forever sadly so I say live for today enjoy it while you still can, nobody can take your memories away they will last as long you do. And that’s all you can do

ML

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, 22ndsoul said:

Remember clearly the doom and gloom as Wigan finished and people forecasting the scene's demise,it will never disappear and whichever gender of soul music takes your ear it's sure to appeal now and in the future to others.

 

2 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

NS and any kind of music will last as long as people want to listen to it , as to what format that is in the future remains to be seen, nothing lasts forever sadly so I say live for today enjoy it while you still can, nobody can take your memories away they will last as long you do. And that’s all you can do

ML

Have to agree, the music will always be there and be danced to and enjoyed, not as we know as the kids discovering it will forge their own way.  There are already signs of change and attitude.

Me, I just go to a select choice of a few venues and enjoy them for what they are.  Our time is up if we are honest and we have had the best of it too.  As you say Mick enjoy what we have left, none of us imagined still being around going to NS venues when we were kids. 

The youngster having an influence today still seem to be heavily into the vinyl and long may it continue.  That will probably be watered down from the original only ethos to include reissues etc.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Chalky

[Dobber]

When I got into northern I was much younger than most of the already fans,the ex casino attendees etc…and I got into collecting the records in the same way they did which was boots and compilations,which naturally ended up being obsessed for the originals! And in all these years I don’t think that has changed,any younger fans in the scene now and coming in will go exactly the same way as we all did in my opinion! It’s inevitable!

[Benji]

On 20/12/2023 at 18:33, Steve G said:

Hi Benji, deep soul and southern soul for example.

Thanks, understood. So I guess it's just a question of time until I can get Eddie Parker on MAM for a tenner