Has The Rare Scene Split?

[Guest]

What i'm saying is that they are two different sorts of nights.Rare Soul nights tend to be a mixture of different styles and tempos and northern nights are mostly uptempo.Some venues advertise as Northern Soul and some rare soul and northern soul.If I went to a venue that was advertised as rare soul and northern soul I wouldn't expect to hear uptempo all night.You should read an article a music journalist called Dave Godin wrote which defined northern soul to differentiate the more uptempo soul sort of sounds that "northerners" were buying and the funkier soul sounds that the south east were into.I thought that this was day one stuff!! There were loads of clubs as well, The Pendulum,late Twisted Wheel,Catacoombs,Wigan Casino,Va Vas,Blackpool Mecca Leeds Central,(have a look at old blues and souls and see the difference in the music played in the north to what was being played in the south).These were all in the north.The south preferred slower tempo soul and funk but there were a few places like The Wheatsheaf etc that played the stuff.Londoners and the south had to travel up north to get a fix of this faster "northern soul" music.You need to read a few books.Northern Soul and Rare Soul scenes are different.I like rare soul by the way but it needs pointing out that it is different from northern.This is hard work

Need to read a few books?? Why, will that educate about the soul scene better than going out to venues almost every weekend? I'm not talking about the 'rare scene' 20-30 years ago as you seem to be, I never attended any of the clubs you've named because I wasn't old enough and whilst I have respect for the people/djs who were there and discovered so many great records I judge the the scene purely on my own experience of it and IMO the rare scene today plays a mainly uptempo mix of soul, funk and RnB and I don't see why you think it's so different from northern, when northern soul records are a mix of soul, funk and RnB that have just been labelled as northern........

[Little-stevie]

i would have thought just reading through this thread gives the answer, yes there is a split..............

....

The truth is out....

The rare soul scene, a complext beast that takes water from so many different places....

Open your ears and your heart, there is a world of music waiting for you...

[ImberBoy]

Firstly there are so many Soul Nights on offer throughout the nation that I cannot see how anybody could even begin to gage what is happening as there is just zillions!

If the same question was posed for Allnightrers then it would be far easier to compare and to make an informed observation.

If there is indeed change then I think that change is only driven by evolution of what the punter wants to hear and thus voting with their feet, I am convinced that Mr Winstanley was more concerned with keeping his venue full rather that to serve up rarer and rarer soul music? "I may be doing him a great injustice here?" answers please.

Like it or not the Soul Night phenomenon has none of the dynamics that an Allnighter has, there is no "Movement" where an Allnighter can and indeed must offer different and tangible flavours in order to temp the punter to travel and invest time and money.

This may of course sounds rather unfair and unflattering to a Soul Night but the nature of the beast and the sheer geography doesn't lend its self to experiment or push any real boundaries except those imagined.

[Winnie :-)]

Need to read a few books?? Why, will that educate about the soul scene better than going out to venues almost every weekend? I'm not talking about the 'rare scene' 20-30 years ago as you seem to be, I never attended any of the clubs you've named because I wasn't old enough and whilst I have respect for the people/djs who were there and discovered so many great records I judge the the scene purely on my own experience of it and IMO the rare scene today plays a mainly uptempo mix of soul, funk and RnB and I don't see why you think it's so different from northern, when northern soul records are a mix of soul, funk and RnB that have just been labelled as northern........

I might be reading the intitial post wrongly, but I thought the thread was to do with a split in the rare soul scene, as opposed to a definition?? ie: at the moment it's a broad church, latin/funk/uptempo/midtempo etc all accepted, the question seemed to me to be, in the future would some clubs for instance focus on the funkier, whilst others, go down the uptempo traditional northern soul albeit rare route, for the two examples I've given, replace with any mentioned throughout the thread.

Winnie

[Guest in town Mikey]

I think there is a kink in the scene. A bit like the Northern Line. If you go from Morden, north to Camden Town, you can go via Bank or Tottenham Court Road.

You are basically getting to the same destination, via a different route. But all in all you arent really doing anything different to the commuters using the opposite route.

I think that most people like to hear stuff they know (and like), and are receptive to new sounds. The threshold of new sounds tho varies from person to person, and therein lies the kink. And there also is the reason why promoters cant please everyone. And some at least try (to their nights detriment sometimes) to give the punter an idea of the music as a whole that their club will be playing.

20 odd years ago, I had a scooter with Rare Soul written on it, because I didnt have enough room to put Northern Soul. I didnt make the distinction then. And I dont really now. But some do. And IMo thats preventing them having good times at places they THINK they wont enjoy.

--------------------------------------------------------------

eg

Some Northern Soul night embrace the age old ethos (old and new faves), without fanfare, while others in a bid to help punters decide, with inform that the venue prefers to try to find hidden gems or forgotten about tracks. Where others want to let us know that they will be playing as many of your old faves as they can in 5 hours.

A punter could then turn up and hear a tune at the latter venue, and think - "Great track, I've not heard this for years". And maybe even go to the DJ later and say how good it was to hear XYZ after all this time. BUT that punter may not ever entertain going to the former venue, as they think they may be sat for hours hearing stuff they dont know, and that could result in a 'boring' evening. At the former tho, they may also hear the long forgotten oldie, and a bunch of other long forgotten ones too.

IMO a perfect example of this was when Dave Thorley ran some nights at the Berkely Power Station a few years ago. The first was a night, and it was a Yate Oldies themed evening. the place was rammed. Many local people I'd not seen in nearly 20 years turned up and we all had the best time.

The next was an allnighter that was playing a mixture of stuff, including obscure and underplayed stuff, that we all expect from a club Dave is involved in. And unfortunately, despite having many of exactly the same DJs. The attendance was a fraction of the oldies night. Possibly 25%.

At the allnighters. Some of the same tunes were played, along with the current big sounds of the day. And the West Country Soul fans decided it wasnt for them. Gutting for me, because I loved the niters. And gutting when lads from 10 miles up the road, would travel to Lancashire or Leicestershire for a niter, but not Berkeley. And gutting for the people who chose not to go, because they missed hearing some of the same tunes they'd have been dancing to at the first night.

I think styles is a red herring as well. As long as I have been going most venues play a cross section of fast, slow, 60s, 70s, RnB, Beat Ballads, etc etc.

[Geeselad]

I might be reading the intitial post wrongly, but I thought the thread was to do with a split in the rare soul scene, as opposed to a definition?? ie: at the moment it's a broad church, latin/funk/uptempo/midtempo etc all accepted, the question seemed to me to be, in the future would some clubs for instance focus on the funkier, whilst others, go down the uptempo traditional northern soul albeit rare route, for the two examples I've given, replace with any mentioned throughout the thread.

Winnie

You've got it there. Although I think that the more 'traditional' rare nights are more accepting of downtompo stuff, and too be honest its not just tempo either, that would over simplify things, tradition rare fans I've spoken to seem to prefer more polished production styles, with a greater enthpasis on the soul qualities, as opposed to dancability. I heard so many anecdotes where folks have said' I like it, but where's the soul?'

[Len]

It's of little importance to me nowadays but I'd happily go somewhere that played 60's Northern, 50's and 60's R & B and Popcorn. I like midtempos and beat ballads but not sure if they are suitable for playing at venues, too slow. I would have to be paid a considerable amount of money to suffer a set of crossover rubbish.

My answer would be the absolute opposite to this one - It's all a matter of personal taste and as long as everyone is convinced their taste is correct and everyone else's is wrong it will stay alive and kicking rather than a twitching corpse! (Hopefully)

Ditto though, sadly it isn't important to me nowadays either.

Len.

"Surely it's more enjoyable to be guessing what the D.J's gonna play next, rather than telling him what he should of played last?!" :O)

[KevH]

A master scammer who got together with Georgie Fame and persuaded Berry Gordy that Motown music was massive in the UK.They then came over and played to empty halls!.

Who strangely enough both had record labels named after them.Master scammer - ,Dave Goading.

[Guest Dave Turner]

Who strangely enough both had record labels named after them.Master scammer - ,Dave Goading.

Georgie Fame = Florence Alabama Music Enterprises

[KevH]

Georgie Fame = Florence Alabama Music Enterprises

Berry who?

[Modernsoulsucks]

Wiggy,

I think you've got a bit hung up on tempo there. I also notice that the current allnighter "rare" scene appears to put some emphasis on that aspect too.

As you mentioned Godin, the Wheatsheaf and the difference between the North and the South, from my memory of the time that difference boiled down to contempory releases as opposed to old soul records. Most new releases didn't have the right sound [especially when you remember that this was pre-Levine's Carstairs moment]. Funk was a major strand of new music and back in September '72 standing in Contempo in Hanway St. or Record Corner on a Saturday morning I saw it flying out compared to punters looking for "Northern" style sounds or the latest re-issues of 60's in-demand tracks.

I was a regular at the Wheatsheaf [although a more Northern night would have been Bird's Nest in West Hampstead, I think, which CLOTH EARS on here could no doubt expand on] which did play some Northern, actually maybe partly due to me because I was asking for stuff I'd heard back home at the Pendulem and bringing the odd 45 in to play. That's not to say there weren't other fans there but it wasn't a Northern club as such [in a pub on a Thursday night? with no dance floor] and Terry used to play a wide selection of soul music, mostly new as he worked at Record Corner.

I'd also say that uptempo was not a pre-requisite for a Northern sound then or earlier. When I first came across it in '69 you had "Hey girl don't bother me", Poets, "Walking up a one way street", Tami Lynn etc which whilst danceable were not what I'd call 100mph stompers such as Triumphs or Eddie Parker. The onus on a record making it was that it was catchy, melodic, and not unsimilar to the 60's Motown sound. I don't think those criteria changed much during the following years.

I do find it odd that Adam [was it?] would say that Northern was just a term given to a selection of soul, funk and R&B when I don't think it was. I can't really remember many records that varied from a more "uptown" style back when Godin was writing. Maybe "Cool Aid" stood out as a funk track or Little Sonny and the odd midtempo Bland 45 during the first spot at the Pendulem. R&B wasn't on my radar or anyone else's I would have thought. I reckon something like "Fortune Teller" [a Wigan oldie, though never a newie, and maybe a forerunner to looking at older sounds] would have cleared the floor at the Pendulem. Charles Sheffield would have started a riot!

Edited June 8, 2011 by modernsoulsucks

[Guest in town Mikey]

Charles Sheffield would have started a riot!

Tea all over the carpet.

[Guest MrC]

I am still of the opinion that because something is rare, it doesn't stop it being Sh*te, regardless of tempo!

[Barry]

or Record Corner on a Saturday morning I saw it flying out compared to punters looking for "Northern" style sounds or the latest re-issues of 60's in-demand tracks.

Whatever happened to Terry from Record Corner? I dealt with him for years, a belting bloke - I last saw him at Southport years back.

[Mace]

I can never understand why folk have to hark back at the old venues of yesteryear as a reference to what should be happening today?

Of course things have changed, but so what.

Most folk who prefer to attend the Rare/Upfront/Underplayed/Something different (call it what you like) events will accept the different genres and enjoy the nights for what they are, in all their flavours.

These are the people that make the scene imo, those that constantly moan and bicker from p.c. keyboards don't.

I'm no big fan of cross-over and post 60s stuff, but on occassion attend such events and generally have a good time cus I accept and enjoy the night for what it is.

It's surprising how many people have entered the soul scene with open ears but end up trading them in for the much preferred set of blinkers.....

[Little-stevie]

yes indeed..

The topic starter was asking about the rare soul scene now in 2011, nowt to do with events when Jesus was a lad

And scene means people that go beyond the bottom of the garden and get out to events...

The scene is a real living beast...

[Ged Parker]

Nuts; you're all f***in' nuts (well most of you are)

Northern soul means so many different things to so many different people. No one person has the answer and no one venue suits everyone.

May as well enrole on a philosophy course as try and discuss this to a generally accepted outcome.

[Guest]

What i'm saying is that they are two different sorts of nights.Rare Soul nights tend to be a mixture of different styles and tempos and northern nights are mostly uptempo.Some venues advertise as Northern Soul and some rare soul and northern soul.If I went to a venue that was advertised as rare soul and northern soul I wouldn't expect to hear uptempo all night.You should read an article a music journalist called Dave Godin wrote which defined northern soul to differentiate the more uptempo soul sort of sounds that "northerners" were buying and the funkier soul sounds that the south east were into.I thought that this was day one stuff!! There were loads of clubs as well, The Pendulum,late Twisted Wheel,Catacoombs,Wigan Casino,Va Vas,Blackpool Mecca Leeds Central,(have a look at old blues and souls and see the difference in the music played in the north to what was being played in the south).These were all in the north.The south preferred slower tempo soul and funk but there were a few places like The Wheatsheaf etc that played the stuff.Londoners and the south had to travel up north to get a fix of this faster "northern soul" music.You need to read a few books.Northern Soul and Rare Soul scenes are different.I like rare soul by the way but it needs pointing out that it is different from northern.This is hard work

What Dave Godin wrote 'back then' doesn't count toward the question posed on this thread. I'm not disagreeing with your opinion of what it is as it's your ears, but as I only attend venues that deliver rare soul I have to advise that your opinion is largely wrong

There have been nights where I'm sat twiddling my thumbs, forced to talk to people because the tempo changes or the genre changes, but by and large, as a dancer, I'm kept busy 95% of the time.

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

WHY NOT JUST ADVERTISE THE EVENTS AS A NORTHERN SOUL NIGHTS. GOOD DJ''s WILL PLAY TO THE CROWD AND KEEP THE FLOOR FULL AND NOT FOR THEIR EGO'S. IF THE PUNTERS LIKE THE MUSIC SURELY THEY'LL BE BACK AGAIN. BUT SOMEONE WILL SAY IT AIN'T AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

[Guest]

WHY NOT JUST ADVERTISE THE EVENTS AS A NORTHERN SOUL NIGHTS. GOOD DJ''s WILL PLAY TO THE CROWD AND KEEP THE FLOOR FULL AND NOT FOR THEIR EGO'S. IF THE PUNTERS LIKE THE MUSIC SURELY THEY'LL BE BACK AGAIN. BUT SOMEONE WILL SAY IT AIN'T AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

In all fairness to any DJ, I wouldn't know if they were playing for their ego or not. Does a full floor denote a great set or does it denote a set that's common that most people know? Personally, I'd like a set I'm not familiar with to feed my need

[ImberBoy]

I'm a big fan of cross-dressin

[Guest JIM BARRY]

why is it , that any debate on music policy turns into a slanging match?...another reason why i mainly post in sport forums, god its so tedious why dont folk call each other twats in pm,s

[Jez Jones]

Maybe decriptions of the style of music played is a lot less important nowadays. I know when I hear something for the first time--I may remark 'fcuk me I like this it sounds real northern to me'---but thats only because it makes me feel comfortable in myself to 'log it like that'. (same goes for something that sounds funky,latin etc)

...It doesn't mean it HAS to be northern as defined by the concise English chin strokers guide to all nighters of Christmas past 5th ed

...So its a personal 'benchmark' of a tune to some folk cos they like it like that----but its personal ...

...mmm Original Question what was it now..............oh yeah some folks will always demand fast stuff. some folks will always like a mixture, some folks will always like the slower stuff

So --I dont think its split in 2011 and beyond because hopefully there will be events on---- that suit everyones taste.......Yep even the slow plodding stuff

[Ceejay]

WHY NOT JUST ADVERTISE THE EVENTS AS A NORTHERN SOUL NIGHTS. GOOD DJ''s WILL PLAY TO THE CROWD AND KEEP THE FLOOR FULL AND NOT FOR THEIR EGO'S. IF THE PUNTERS LIKE THE MUSIC SURELY THEY'LL BE BACK AGAIN. BUT SOMEONE WILL SAY IT AIN'T AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

IT DEFINITELY ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS THAT.............I'M NOT GOING TO SPEND MY HARD-EARNED MONEY TRAVELLING TO SOMEWHERE THAT PLAYS OLDIES AS I CAN GO TO A LOCAL NIGHT FOR THAT.......OR PUT A CD ON AT HOME COME TO THINK OF IT!!!

IF I'M GOING TO TRAVEL HUNDREDS OF MILES I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO GET FOR MY MONEY!!!

[Guest Matt Male]

IF I'M GOING TO TRAVEL HUNDREDS OF MILES I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO GET FOR MY MONEY!!!

As someone said earlier, nail on head time. I think the reason why some nights are advertised as rare or rarely played or underplayed and not as northern soul is because there's a chance you'll get a bunch of dickheads turning up moaning that you aren't playing northern soul, because their view of what northern soul is is so narrow (probably 5 records they heard at Wigan once) that nothing but the most turgid and w**k olides night in the country will satisfy them. I have no problem with anyone playing anything as long as it's advertised as exactly what it is. I'd love to advertise as northern soul and to me it is all northern soul, but unfortunately to 99.9% of people on this scene northern soul means mouldy oldies.

We advertise as uptempo rare and underplayed soul and funk so we don't get people coming up all night moaning about the music and asking for The Snake (Bearsy i'm looking at you...).

[Guest gordon russell]

i would have thought just reading through this thread gives the answer, yes there is a split..............

how would you know ?

[Guest gordon russell]

a night has to kick....all night...mid/uptempo plus some funk edged stuff and good r&b.........remember .....it,s a night out not a wake...................so is there a split yep good nights have split from bad pb

[Guest]

IT DEFINITELY ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS THAT.............I'M NOT GOING TO SPEND MY HARD-EARNED MONEY TRAVELLING TO SOMEWHERE THAT PLAYS OLDIES AS I CAN GO TO A LOCAL NIGHT FOR THAT.......OR PUT A CD ON AT HOME COME TO THINK OF IT!!!

IF I'M GOING TO TRAVEL HUNDREDS OF MILES I WANT TO KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO GET FOR MY MONEY!!!

when you agreed to the recipient of your reply you were agreeing to hearing stuff you know. By that token it may as well have been oldies. Don't you get excited by stuff you don't know?

[Ceejay]

when you agreed to the recipient of your reply you were agreeing to hearing stuff you know. By that token it may as well have been oldies. Don't you get excited by stuff you don't know?

MY REPLY IS PRETTY UNAMBIGUOUS AS FAR AS I CAN SEE...........................SO I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANY FURTHER!!!!

[Dylan]

Firstly there are so many Soul Nights on offer throughout the nation that I cannot see how anybody could even begin to gage what is happening as there is just zillions!

If the same question was posed for Allnightrers then it would be far easier to compare and to make an informed observation.

If there is indeed change then I think that change is only driven by evolution of what the punter wants to hear and thus voting with their feet, I am convinced that Mr Winstanley was more concerned with keeping his venue full rather that to serve up rarer and rarer soul music? "I may be doing him a great injustice here?" answers please.

Like it or not the Soul Night phenomenon has none of the dynamics that an Allnighter has, there is no "Movement" where an Allnighter can and indeed must offer different and tangible flavours in order to temp the punter to travel and invest time and money.

This may of course sounds rather unfair and unflattering to a Soul Night but the nature of the beast and the sheer geography doesn't lend its self to experiment or push any real boundaries except those imagined.

I had exactly the same conversation at the last soul night I went to. They certainly miss the x factor that you get at a nighter.

even the tunes don't take on the same power although that could of been in part the volume and quality of sound system.

nothing like a big hall with a good sound system and an up for it crowd.

the scene does seem to suffer from a hell of a lot of polotics. I have been guily of having an opinion myself at times.

[Dylan]

a night has to kick....all night...mid/uptempo plus some funk edged stuff and good r&b.........remember .....it,s a night out not a wake...................so is there a split yep good nights have split from bad pb

some of the guys crossing over from the funk scene would be a lot mroe appreaciative of a slower track if it has a heavy bassline or a ncie groove. Hip Hop is not fast and that gets people dancing

I don't agree it has to be uptempo 100% of the time. I'd say 80 to 90% of the time would still have same effect.

there are some mind blowing down and mid tempo tracks that would realy hit the spot for me as long as not too many of them are played.

[Guest]

MY REPLY IS PRETTY UNAMBIGUOUS AS FAR AS I CAN SEE...........................SO I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANY FURTHER!!!!

Sorry I took your answer to mean that you wanted to know the tunes you were getting... reading it again I rescind, it was unambiguous. and I apologise

[Geeselad]

some of the guys crossing over from the funk scene would be a lot mroe appreaciative of a slower track if it has a heavy bassline or a ncie groove. Hip Hop is not fast and that gets people dancing

I don't agree it has to be uptempo 100% of the time. I'd say 80 to 90% of the time would still have same effect.

there are some mind blowing down and mid tempo tracks that would realy hit the spot for me as long as not too many of them are played.

As I said, I'm over simplifying to say its just about tempo, its the feel, production and vocal style that appeals to diverging elements within the scene.

[Raremusicdirect]

My observations are that there at two distinctly different groups of soul nite / nighter (grouped together for ease) attendees.

The main group prefer a predominately Oldies based set, often described as top 500 but is broader and includes many rare tunes (because some are) and of course littered with underplayed.

Attendees typically attend Hinckley, Nuneaton, Loughborough, Stoke, Skegness (Main Room), Torquay Main Room, Rugby Main Floor, Wellingborough Main Room, RSG etc

They are in my view the majority.

The second group prefer Rare and Underplayed and more progressive elements (in the variants, such as RnB, Funk, Latin etc) - funk coming to the fore at the moment.

They will frequent Lifelife, Bidds, Rugby Second Room, Groovesville, Gloucester Second Room, Southampton 2nd Room, United Sounds Of Soul, Move On, Bournemouth Railway Club, etc

They are in my view the minority.

Some like both and move between the two of course, trying different things, but most people I have met tend to sit 80:20 in one camp or the other.

I don't think either is right or wrong, its personal choice. Is it a split scence (think was original question) - can only talk in recent history terms, I'd say there are two main different strands under the same Northern / Rare Soul banner. It makes knowing the venue music policy and djs they have selected all the more important in my view.

That's my own opinion based on what I have experienced / seen for myself. I have attended all the example events mentioned over the last 5 years or so.............

[Guest Bearsy]

As someone said earlier, nail on head time. I think the reason why some nights are advertised as rare or rarely played or underplayed and not as northern soul is because there's a chance you'll get a bunch of dickheads turning up moaning that you aren't playing northern soul, because their view of what northern soul is is so narrow (probably 5 records they heard at Wigan once) that nothing but the most turgid and w**k olides night in the country will satisfy them. I have no problem with anyone playing anything as long as it's advertised as exactly what it is. I'd love to advertise as northern soul and to me it is all northern soul, but unfortunately to 99.9% of people on this scene northern soul means mouldy oldies.

We advertise as uptempo rare and underplayed soul and funk so we don't get people coming up all night moaning about the music and asking for The Snake (Bearsy i'm looking at you...).

poor old Adam

there are some Rare/ underplayed nights/nighters that do play different music to other such like nights/nighters but its still rare and underplayed and different form the norm, i wouldnt say the rare scene is split it just keeps progressing with fresh sounds wether they be forgotten, newly found and edging on different genres of the soul banner, Oldies nights/nighters are just the same, different venues different sounds but mainly pretty much the same old same old, most soulies know what venue gives you what and what djs prodmently play so its not like anyone aint got too much of a clue who and where are about, give it to me rare thats my preference but i still love an oldies night and also different parts of the country play different tunes, one mans known is anothers unknown, split NO still enjoying yet YES, well most of the time anyway

[Winnie :-)]

how would you know ?

What do you mean by that Terry, care to explain?

Winnie

[Ted Massey]

My observations are that there at two distinctly different groups of soul nite / nighter (grouped together for ease) attendees.

The main group prefer a predominately Oldies based set, often described as top 500 but is broader and includes many rare tunes (because some are) and of course littered with underplayed.

Attendees typically attend Hinckley, Nuneaton, Loughborough, Stoke, Skegness (Main Room), Torquay Main Room, Rugby Main Floor, Wellingborough Main Room, RSG etc

They are in my view the majority.

The second group prefer Rare and Underplayed and more progressive elements (in the variants, such as RnB, Funk, Latin etc) - funk coming to the fore at the moment.

They will frequent Lifelife, Bidds, Rugby Second Room, Groovesville, Gloucester Second Room, Southampton 2nd Room, United Sounds Of Soul, Move On, Bournemouth Railway Club, etc

They are in my view the minority.

Some like both and move between the two of course, trying different things, but most people I have met tend to sit 80:20 in one camp or the other.

I don't think either is right or wrong, its personal choice. Is it a split scence (think was original question) - can only talk in recent history terms, I'd say there are two main different strands under the same Northern / Rare Soul banner. It makes knowing the venue music policy and djs they have selected all the more important in my view.

That's my own opinion based on what I have experienced / seen for myself. I have attended all the example events mentioned over the last 5 years or so.............

Nail on the head Kev best post IMO

[Eddie Hubbard]

Nail on the head Kev best post IMO

I agree Ted , very well thought out post Kev .....Best,Eddie

[Steve L]

My observations are that there at two distinctly different groups of soul nite / nighter (grouped together for ease) attendees.

The main group prefer a predominately Oldies based set, often described as top 500 but is broader and includes many rare tunes (because some are) and of course littered with underplayed.

Attendees typically attend Hinckley, Nuneaton, Loughborough, Stoke, Skegness (Main Room), Torquay Main Room, Rugby Main Floor, Wellingborough Main Room, RSG etc

They are in my view the majority.

The second group prefer Rare and Underplayed and more progressive elements (in the variants, such as RnB, Funk, Latin etc) - funk coming to the fore at the moment.

They will frequent Lifelife, Bidds, Rugby Second Room, Groovesville, Gloucester Second Room, Southampton 2nd Room, United Sounds Of Soul, Move On, Bournemouth Railway Club, etc

They are in my view the minority.

Some like both and move between the two of course, trying different things, but most people I have met tend to sit 80:20 in one camp or the other.

I don't think either is right or wrong, its personal choice. Is it a split scence (think was original question) - can only talk in recent history terms, I'd say there are two main different strands under the same Northern / Rare Soul banner. It makes knowing the venue music policy and djs they have selected all the more important in my view.

That's my own opinion based on what I have experienced / seen for myself. I have attended all the example events mentioned over the last 5 years or so.............

As Ted says - spot on summary

[KevH]

As Ted says - spot on summary

Ted who?

[Barry]

Ted who?

I often wondered what the Doctor's real name was!?

[Guest Matt Male]

My observations are that there at two distinctly different groups of soul nite / nighter (grouped together for ease) attendees.

The main group prefer a predominately Oldies based set, often described as top 500 but is broader and includes many rare tunes (because some are) and of course littered with underplayed.

Attendees typically attend Hinckley, Nuneaton, Loughborough, Stoke, Skegness (Main Room), Torquay Main Room, Rugby Main Floor, Wellingborough Main Room, RSG etc

They are in my view the majority.

The second group prefer Rare and Underplayed and more progressive elements (in the variants, such as RnB, Funk, Latin etc) - funk coming to the fore at the moment.

They will frequent Lifelife, Bidds, Rugby Second Room, Groovesville, Gloucester Second Room, Southampton 2nd Room, United Sounds Of Soul, Move On, Bournemouth Railway Club, etc

They are in my view the minority.

Some like both and move between the two of course, trying different things, but most people I have met tend to sit 80:20 in one camp or the other.

I don't think either is right or wrong, its personal choice. Is it a split scence (think was original question) - can only talk in recent history terms, I'd say there are two main different strands under the same Northern / Rare Soul banner. It makes knowing the venue music policy and djs they have selected all the more important in my view.

That's my own opinion based on what I have experienced / seen for myself. I have attended all the example events mentioned over the last 5 years or so.............

Spot on Kev. In my opinion the split was at its most obvious when the first Burnley nighter was on this year, at the same time the Soul Over Easy night was on in Chesterfield, You could have split the scene straight down the middle that night and the choice between upfront and oldies was never clearer.

[Ted Massey]

Spot on Kev. In my opinion the split was at its most obvious when the first Burnley nighter was on this year, at the same time the Soul Over Easy night was on in Chesterfield, You could have split the scene straight down the middle that night and the choice between upfront and oldies was never clearer.

What you wont be able to ignore thou is that at both venues people were really enjoying them selves but were also being deafend by some crap as well

[Guest Matt Male]

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Hi Matt

If I personally believed the passage highlighted in your post about any subject then I would start questioning whether it was me who was offside rather than the other 99.9%!

I think all this is only a problem if venues / DJ's adopt an extremist policy surely. 'We play only Oldies' is as blinkered and bloody-minded as 'We don't play any Oldies' at all.

Have you any 'Oldies' in your box? I suspect that you probably have a significant number. (you can correct me if I'm wrong)

Why are they there??

'Oldies' may not be your favourite wing of Northern Soul Matt but they are part of it nonetheless. I think any venue that doesn't play ANY Oldies from start to finish is getting it wrong (just my opinion) and likewise any venue that insists on playing nothing but is doing likewise.

This sort of thread conveys the impression that it is those who shout the loudest who are actually the problem....the average punter would like a bit of both ends of the spectrum.

Regards

dogstoat

PS Most 'Oldies' fans can only manage to dance to two tunes in succession anyway. Personally I'm grateful for something I don't know occasionally just to give me an excuse to sit down!!! :lol:

You highlighted the quote but you completely misunderstood me. I did say mouldy oldies and not oldies. I love oldies, always have, just not the same ones over and over again, which is what I was referring too. I doubt you want to go to places and hear the same things week in week out, but amazingly there are a lot of people who do (maybe not 99.9% that was an obvious exaggeration ).

You're wrong about me i'm afraid. I didn't make any judgement on whether oldies are good or bad, I don't know where from my post you conclude oldies aren't my favourites and I never said we never play oldies (of course we do), and yes I do have plenty of oldies, just don't get much chance to play many out thesedays.

Glad to put the record straight.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Matt Male

[Guest Matt Male]

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Hi Matt

I see. I'll stand corrected...although your comment did read (to me anyway) as a generalisation of all Oldies. Sorry about that. You were a bit rude to Bearsy about 'The Snake' though so I thought........

Is 'Mouldy Oldie' defined? Which 'same ones' are they or is it anyone of them that is played too often? What's too often?

If an identified 'Mouldy Oldie' doesn't get played for a long time does it 'unmouldy'?

I've never heard the expression 'mouldy oldie'......how do you decide what goes on the list? How do we know what you've decided is 'mouldy'??

I admit to being a bit of a 'nice but dim' when it comes to all of this so any assistance you could give in this area would be much appreciated.

......oh dear, you're going to have to correct me again aren't you!

Sorry

dogstoat

Sorry, I re-edited my post so it made more sense. Don't worry about Bearsy, that was an in-joke about something that happened at Move On, he knows what I meant.

Mouldy oldie is a crap term I agree, couldn't think of anything better.

[Ceejay]

Sorry I took your answer to mean that you wanted to know the tunes you were getting... reading it again I rescind, it was unambiguous. and I apologise

No problem

[Guest Matt Male]

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Hi Matt

Thanks Buddy....just sent you a pm...great banter though!!!!!!!

Best

dogstoat

PS Tell Bearsy I've managed to get him a copy of the 'Nancy Ames' he's been desperate for. Also tell him that he risks arrest by the 'No Oldies Police' if they find him in possession of a Julian Covey - on Philips!!.... ...Philips!!!

Now that's a sound. Definately not overplayed recently.

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

Totally no where you're coming from with old sounds that have been played to death but there's loads that have'nt and could be played in any set in my eyes. bur for 35 years i keep hearing oh oldies again.. when trying to encourage new blood into the scene why should they be denied listening to good + underplayed records of the last 40 years. how do the peple who are new to the scene learn of it's heritage and roots. it looks to me the following of the rare soul wiil only get smaller and segragated into that many catorgories that i would'nt have a clue of what kind of soul night i was gointed. to. Regards Pecker.

[abdntony]

SPOT ON

[Wilxy]

Apart from "my front room", I am limited by shiftwork to limit my "listening" time, and "throwing a few shapes" nowadays is as rare as a totally good night out!

The only split in the"rare" soul scene observed in my tenure as a 37 year participant is an individual taste from a musical perspective....I go where I want....and listen to likewise!

The rest is opinion...