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NorthernJordan

Its A Cover Up?

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Posted

Ok, i have been reading quite a few threads on here and many of them mention "covering up" records. Just wanting to know ive got the right idea by what is meant by this.

If a DJ back in the day had a new find, would he possibly cover it up with a different title and artist so that other "rival" djs would be sent on a wild goose chase when trying to find such tracks? Or if the track was by an artist that wasnt really seen as that credible, would it get covered up by using an artist who had another big dancefloor track to help break it?

Jordan

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Posted

it was all about having an exclusive record that no one else had !

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Posted

Still is.....

:lol::unsure::wicked:

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Posted

Ok, i have been reading quite a few threads on here and many of them mention "covering up" records. Just wanting to know ive got the right idea by what is meant by this.

If a DJ back in the day had a new find, would he possibly cover it up with a different title and artist so that other "rival" djs would be sent on a wild goose chase when trying to find such tracks? Or if the track was by an artist that wasnt really seen as that credible, would it get covered up by using an artist who had another big dancefloor track to help break it?

Jordan

I was surprised to see this question asked on here as i thought most knew all about this............but I read on, and you raised a good second question.

So......exclusivity aside, can anyone give an example of where a name was used to increase credibility, rather than, or as much as to protect the identity of the disc for reasons of exclusivity?

Of course, that would achieve both aims...........but it's a good question that I had not really considered.........nice one!

Cheers,

Mark R

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Posted

I was surprised to see this question asked on here as i thought most knew all about this............but I read on, and you raised a good second question.

So......exclusivity aside, can anyone give an example of where a name was used to increase credibility, rather than, or as much as to protect the identity of the disc for reasons of exclusivity?

Of course, that would achieve both aims...........but it's a good question that I had not really considered.........nice one!

Cheers,

Mark R

Weelll, seeing as it's just been discussed

Paul Anka as Johnny Caswell as a bleedin' obvious example :thumbsup:

T

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Posted

The Paul Anka track was what spurred that thought. Just wanted to confirm what i thought, the main reason i wasnt 100% is the art of covering up records isnt really carried out nowadays. So it all happened well before my time.

I would be interested in hearing about covering up a record to increase its credibility.

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Posted

The Paul Anka track was what spurred that thought. Just wanted to confirm what i thought, the main reason i wasnt 100% is the art of covering up records isnt really carried out nowadays. So it all happened well before my time.

I would be interested in hearing about covering up a record to increase its credibility.

Well , possibly The Coasters Crazy Baby might have been one, seeing as by the early 70's they'd have been decicidely uncool.

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Posted

can anyone give an example of where a name was used to increase credibility, rather than, or as much as to protect the identity of the disc for reasons of exclusivity?

Billy Lee Riley's "Happy Man" was apparently covered up as Otis Smith "Down The Road".

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Posted

Weelll, seeing as it's just been discussed

Paul Anka as Johnny Caswell as a bleedin' obvious example :thumbsup:

T

Ah, hadn't seen the Paul Anka thread...........perfect example there then!

Cheers,

Mark R

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Posted

So......exclusivity aside, can anyone give an example of where a name was used to increase credibility, rather than, or as much as to protect the identity of the disc for reasons of exclusivity?

Buck Rodgers Movement was covered up as Trade Martin?

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Posted

Things were covered up for a variety of reasons AIUI; for exclusivity, for credibility and also to try and prevent label owners reissuing tunes if they became popular.

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Posted

The Paul Anka track was what spurred that thought. Just wanted to confirm what i thought, the main reason i wasnt 100% is the art of covering up records isnt really carried out nowadays. So it all happened well before my time.

I would be interested in hearing about covering up a record to increase its credibility.

Definitely done to stop other people getting one and its still done today although for obvious reasons not on the same scale as in days gone by

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Posted

First one I ever saw was when Dave Godin covered the Ad Libs - Nothing worse than being alone - he just put plain white labels over both sides ( must have put play side or something on one of the labels, but I can't remember!)

Just given it a listen - forgot how good it sounds.

Julian

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Posted

Oi Jordan, are you following me?

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Posted

but the nighter scene wasnt the first to have cover ups as jamaican sound systems had been doing it since the late 50ts

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Posted

Good point Toad, early DJ chat over US R&B and Jazz imports ironically!

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Posted

yes nik they used to scratch out the title and artist !

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Posted

Funk scene too, the first batch of Sonny Harris and the Soul reflections had the writer credits scratched out as that was the guy they were coming from the seller didn't want people to find

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Posted

Oi Jordan, are you following me?

Yeah mate, youve got yourself a stalker...

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Posted

Plus dont forget it was also to put the prolific bootleggers of the trail for a while, as as soon as a record was booted it was essentially 'dead' as a play track.

Best Russ

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Posted

Cover ups were done as stated to protect from bootleggers, the main reason was however to have the "exclusive" tracks so we would all go to certain venue to hear the latest "secret sounds" (that's a term from the 70ts). Looked at objectively, one could argue it was also an ego trip by some DJ's .

Ironically, the cover up did the artist no favours at all as sometimes the bootleg copies would be produced with the cover artist's name as the "real artist"! The best (worst) example of a legitimate release where the cover artist name is used is the Grapevine release of Hey Little Girl by Del Capris (real artist is The Construction).

It was a done thing back in the day and was all part of the scene. For me anyone who covers up a record today, is on a pure ego trip (and I don't care how a good a DJ they are). Times have changed, we want to know who the artists are, if a record is rare, it will be tough to track down anyway, and if not, we can all enjoy it and maybe garner enough interest so the artist may benefit (if they are still alive) through a re-release.

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Posted (edited)

Ironically, the cover up did the artist no favours at all as sometimes the bootleg copies would be produced with the cover artist's name as the "real artist"! The best (worst) example of a legitimate release where the cover artist name is used is the Grapevine release of Hey Little Girl by Del Capris (real artist is The Construction).

Always was a wierd one that, given that if actually did come out by the Del Capris on Kama Sutra and its a far better record than Construction IMHO.

Another case of rarity over quality.

Kegsy

Edited by Kegsy

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Posted

Always was a wierd one that, given that if actually did come out by the Del Capris on Kama Sutra and its a far better record than Construction IMHO.

Another case of rarity over quality.

Kegsy

Del Capris "Hey Little Girl" on KAMA SUTRA and RONJERDON is an entirely different tune than The Construction "Hey Little Way Out Girl" though.

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Posted

Del Capris "Hey Little Girl" on KAMA SUTRA and RONJERDON is an entirely different tune than The Construction "Hey Little Way Out Girl" though.

Yeah i know, but why bring it out by a group that already had a record out with that title ?.

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Posted

Yeah i know, but why bring it out by a group that already had a record out with that title ?.

To confuse people even more, I guess?

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Posted

Cover ups were done as stated to protect from bootleggers, the main reason was however to have the "exclusive" tracks so we would all go to certain venue to hear the latest "secret sounds" (that's a term from the 70ts). Looked at objectively, one could argue it was also an ego trip by some DJ's .

Ironically, the cover up did the artist no favours at all as sometimes the bootleg copies would be produced with the cover artist's name as the "real artist"! The best (worst) example of a legitimate release where the cover artist name is used is the Grapevine release of Hey Little Girl by Del Capris (real artist is The Construction).

It was a done thing back in the day and was all part of the scene. For me anyone who covers up a record today, is on a pure ego trip (and I don't care how a good a DJ they are). Times have changed, we want to know who the artists are, if a record is rare, it will be tough to track down anyway, and if not, we can all enjoy it and maybe garner enough interest so the artist may benefit (if they are still alive) through a re-release.

So why was it part of the scene then and not now. What is the difference?

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Posted

What about the 2 Detroit Shakers "Help Me" boots in the 70s. 2 Different records. One was Outsiders Lonely Man, and the other was errr something else.

I think it was Simon Soussan that did it.

Paul

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Posted

Can't believe this is causing such a deep discussion ( apart from the Titles of actual Covers )

Done so that no one else could find a copy and so give exclusivity to the DJ. 'Only me got a copy of this' - Much Kudos !! No other reason, nothing to do with the Boot Boys.

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Posted

danny rampling said he did it in the early days of shoom, with Italo house records, soundsystems did it in the the yard. Its often used to give focus and attention to a tune that might be ignored due to its lack of credibility, ie the paul anka, J casewewell.

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Posted

Not sure I agree with cover ups these days,if its rare then play it as a rare sound,no need to deny the artist badly needed exposure..maybe its just me?

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Posted (edited)

I understand fully why there are cover ups these days.

It takes many hours of research, and costs a fortune to source genuinly unknown records at this point. I've seen total unknowns go on ebay for 3k+ etc. They simply ain't lying about waiting to be discovered at $5 as anyone that really knows about rare records would understand.

One of the challenges is when something genuinly new 'comes up' no one knows whether it is a genuine one off or someone has 5-6 copies or even a small box to drip feed out "to all the DJs".

So can understand why a DJ would want to keep exlusivity on it. And yes not denying there is an ego element - DJ-ing is a competitive business afterall and many Djs want to have things that others don't have. It's what differentiates them.

Edited by Steve G

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Posted

I completely understand why DJ's still do cover ups, although I don't personally like it. That's probably a selfish reason though, because as a buyer of vinyl I want to buy stuff that I hear and like. I often wonder if there is time limit on a cover up? For example, should 3 months be enough if no one has found it in numbers. Six months if no-one has unravelled the identity?

I do find it quite funny how many go off a record once the true identity is known though. To prove my point and for a bit of a laugh,I played this on the radio a few years ago without letting anyone know who it was. I asked for listeners opinions with the promise of revealing all at the end of the show.

About 90% loved it!...........until I told them it was this: (strangely enough :D )

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Posted

What about the 2 Detroit Shakers "Help Me" boots in the 70s. 2 Different records. One was Outsiders Lonely Man, and the other was errr something else.

I think it was Simon Soussan that did it.

Paul

Wasn´t the other one The Rainbows on Capitol?

Steve

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Posted

Mad Mike, the legendary Pittsburgh radio D.J. was disguising the names of "odd" records way, way back, but instead of "covering up" he used to rip the labels off!!! I suppose the best example of his spins, was playing "Manny Corchado" as "The Mosquitos", which was subsequently "pressed" as such, for the local demand.

Des Parker

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Posted

Wasn´t the other one The Rainbows on Capitol?

Steve

yes Steve, 'Help Me If You Can'

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Posted (edited)

jocko, on 05 Dec 2012 - 12:21, said:

So why was it part of the scene then and not now. What is the difference?

I thought that was obvious ??

Firstly pseudo Motown tracks we call Northern Soul arent in continual supply regardless of what "IL" may want you to think with his "new" stuff, however as most of these tracks ( which were an up and coming artist trying to create their version of the Motown or localised sound at that time, mostly to get them out of poverty) have been unearthed which survived fire, abuse and total destruction - modern technology has now caught up with these records and most are now know by either iTunes, YouTube, SoundHound or Shazam for example unless there are on unknown acetate or mastertape etc and we haven't the strong influence of ppl like Simon Soussan for example sending us off at a tangent.

There isnt the bitter revelry between venues/jocks such as there was back then mainly refering to the "Casino vs Mecca, Ritz and Top Rank scenario, as I think most ppl including the djs are now simply interesting in getting a good mix of ppl together and most want to relive their previous Northern Soul experiences, have a good time listening & dancing to music they love and is ingrained into them as well as pass on to the those of the younger generation who unfortunately never experience what we did back then !

There are so many interesting & cheeky examples of what the OP was referring to such as Joe Matthews, William Lucus, Christine Cooper and Eddie Foster or for example as just recently learning who the Tomangoes really were ( Thanks GinoW ) - however for me now............ I am far more interested in what Russ put his letter to Soussan over in LA to make him have total priority over all others, when exclusivity really mattered - lol.

Lets just hope Searling's book soon to be realised adds further background & insight to those already published such as Tim Browns.

Edited by NSG

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Posted

So......exclusivity aside, can anyone give an example of where a name was used to increase credibility, rather than, or as much as to protect the identity of the disc for reasons of exclusivity?

 

 

Willie C & The Cobras - Stepping Out Of Your World C/U

 

Nippy Hawkins & The Niptones - It's gonna be too late (Lorraine)

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Posted

I've got one c/u.I covered it because if folks found out who it really was,i'd be run out of town on the next stagecoach. :elvis:  .

 

Oh,and its a bit of fun.Remember FUN? Also gives folks something to do on a cold winter's  night of Googling. :lol:

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Posted

my memory is not so good but im sure there was a tune played mainly at Yate that was supposedly by Tom and Jerry that im sure was Simon and Garfunkle.

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Posted (edited)

Nothing wrong with cover ups.....takes ages to find a good dance record and it may be a cheap record B-side.....if it goes down a storm and you let every sod know what it is.....your hard work and belief in the tune is just for others to capitalise on.........Karl Heard famously covered gene redding b-side and rudy mokabee....these two went down a storm for quite sometime before being outed with everyone complaining "oh l,ve got that" and now they're played out quite often.........only because one dj had the nouce to believe in a couple of good dancing cheapies that were beneath the trophy hunters thats why they're covered

Edited by gordon russell

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Posted

 

I've got one c/u.I covered it because if folks found out who it really was,i'd be run out of town on the next stagecoach. :elvis:  .

 

Oh,and its a bit of fun.Remember FUN? Also gives folks something to do on a cold winter's  night of Googling. :lol:

it better be good lol lol

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Posted

my memory is not so good but im sure there was a tune played mainly at Yate that was supposedly by Tom and Jerry that im sure was Simon and Garfunkle.

Simon & Garfunkel were originally in a group called Tom & Jerry so might explain that.

 

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Guest sharmo 1
Posted

Willie C & The Cobras - Stepping Out Of Your World C/U

 

Nippy Hawkins & The Niptones - It's gonna be too late (Lorraine)

Great track there Simsy I remember Ray Evans from Anglesea having this at £25.00 think he had a few all mint had one myself.Bluejay's on same list £10.00 . Jesse Davis "ERA" £20.00 and Four voices "love's getting .." £20.00. regards S.

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Guest sharmo 1
Posted

What was the c/u either Keb or Guy had that was the real artist and title so it was covered as itself,?

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Guest sharmo 1
Posted

Didn#t John Manship have a gary glitter/glitter band b side as a c'u ?

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Posted

Didn#t John Manship have a gary glitter/glitter band b side as a c'u ?

 

 

Makes You Blind?

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Posted (edited)

Makes You Blind?

Wasn't it played as it segued well into Johnny Jones Purple Haze... 

 

Edited by wiggyflat

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Posted

God that's awful!

 

A very mediocre B side band jam!

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Posted

God that's awful!

 

A very mediocre B side band jam!

 

I can't believe you even listened to it Steve.....you'll never get that time back you know :ohmy:

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Posted

just a few points re c/ups from me:

1. yes, its about exclusivity. to have it as an exclusive play and to keep it esp in this day and age were new and exclusive tunes are so so hard to find as long as possible away from the risk of being bootlegged or re-released

2. wasnt it keb darge who used to mix the real identies of two new tunes in order to come up with two new c/up names ? clever and funny!

3. fun and creativity. its so enjoyable to come up with creative new c/up names: really think tim bowns lee crandle experience still takes some beating. one of mine is called Sweet Milliners as my lovely lady is a milliner and she loves the tune. one of my own latest I call Little Pam & The Sweet Sweetbacks..now heres a name for all you blaxploitation fans if ever there was one ! lol

4. In most cases I try to use a name of an artist that sounds similar to the c/up in question. in general a cover up name borrowed from an envogue artist helps to do the trick with a tune...until recently I used to have one called Joseph Webster..

5. it can be useful to cover up the dead rare as it is to cover up flipsides and overlooked cheapies...still some around out there.

dont take it all too serious! its meant to be fun :)

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