What is 'Proper' dancing?

[Paul-s]

I keep seeing Youtube and FB comments on clips of dancing, which mostly feature people dressed in a, shall we say, retro Northern Soul style.

Many of the comments say 'thats proper dancing' and I have to admit to being a bit mystified by this term. What do they mean? When I asked one of them they really meant a version that they recognise from a particular period, which in most clips is a hoppy, skippy, slightly teapot, wear my emotions on my sleeve, demonstrative style. 

Its a sort of judgement that seems to be on the rise amongst self-appointed dance aficionados, fuelled by a constant barrage of online clips filmed at oldies events. I have a problem with people, often long absent returnees, claiming authenticity in dancing because different people have different versions, all of which are correct to them. I personally enjoy watching people who are "in it', meaning 'in the music' and that might be full of movement or barely moving (eyes closed and gone!)

So, does anyone care to elaborate on 'proper' dancing please? Does this idea of a historicised, reified, certified version, fixed in time and space, come from the World Championships thing held at Blackpool and the many 'line dancing style' tutorial videos now available online where people tell you "this is how it's done"?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

[Girdwoodinc]

dance how you feel, and f*ck the rest...no one should be judged on how they dance as it's all personal...the ones I hate are the people who openly laugh at people dancing and haven't moved their arses all night...

[Girdwoodinc]

ps Dancing isn't a competition...

[El Corol]

20 minutes ago, paul-s said:

,slightly teapot,

Quote of the day

[Gold Band]

Paul, why the need to pigeon hole or categorise forms of dancing. Most people get on the dance floor to enjoy themselves. There are only two kinds of dancer the non aggressive luckily that's the vast majority & the aggressive dancer the move over I'm on the dance floor so keep out my way as I own the dance floor & I'm gonna show you all how it's done. May I say from my observations some of the said aggressive dancers are good, Usually the ones that apologise for requiring a large space on the dance floor & I have watched in ore at the fantastic spectacles that I have witnessed but others should drink less & not presume that alcohol has some kind of magic powers that can turn them into a dancer) you know who you are I hope 

Kirsty

Edited November 16, 2016 by Gold Band

[Ian Stacey]

 There is no set rule of dancing. Apart from no piss taking .saying sorry if you bump into some one .NO drinks on the dance floor. Apart from that enjoy yourself, a good hearted soulie does not judge you .

[Woodbutcher]

"Proper dancing" is between you and the music and nothing else , if you're busy concerning yourself with what everyone else is doing then you've not been transported into that magical impenetrable bubble that the tune creates for you ... 

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by WoodButcher

[Paul-s]

45 minutes ago, Gold Band said:

Paul, why the need to pigeon hole or categorise forms of dancing. Most people get on the dance floor to enjoy themselves. There are only two kinds of dancer the non aggressive luckily that's the vast majority & the aggressive dancer the move over I'm on the dance floor so keep out my way as I own the dance floor & I'm gonna show you all how it's done. May I say from my observations some of the said aggressive dancers are good, Usually the ones that apologise for requiring a large space on the dance floor & I have watched in ore at the fantastic spectacles that I have witnessed but others should drink less & not presume that alcohol has some kind of magic powers that can turn them into a dancer) you know who you are I hope 

Kirsty

Well said, just to be clear Kirsty, I never pigeon hole dancing, to me its a freedom and not to be judged, and I agree with all the comments so far. I just keep seeing these "proper" judgements online and I am mystified by them, and how they are defined...

[Paul-s]

20 minutes ago, WoodButcher said:

"Proper dancing" is between you and the music and nothing else , if you're busy concerning yourself with what everyone else is doing then you've not been transported into that magical impenetrable bubble that the tune creates for you ... 

 

"Proper dancing" is between you and the music and nothing else"  - great definition!

[Slim Jim]

Luckily we have the good book to refer to on this very issue

The book of Jed refers to - "Stomp or shuffle thine feet to the joyous sounds and spin and backdrop as thy wilt if thine body permits it " 

Like all works of scripture this of course open to interpretation , in the early days of its inception many's a passer by was taken out by a dropkick to the head or an over zealous spin , this interpretation was particularly prevalent in the Wigan tribe though with the enlightenment and the proverb "With age comes conservative dance moves " an altogether different style emerged with the new millennium.  

[Paul-s]

30 minutes ago, Slim Jim said:

Luckily we have the good book to refer to on this very issue

The book of Jed refers to - "Stomp or shuffle thine feet to the joyous sounds and spin and backdrop as thy wilt if thine body permits it " 

Like all works of scripture this of course open to interpretation , in the early days of its inception many's a passer by was taken out by a dropkick to the head or an over zealous spin , this interpretation was particularly prevalent in the Wigan tribe though with the enlightenment and the proverb "With age comes conservative dance moves " an altogether different style emerged with the new millennium.  

Nicely put!

[Peter99]

Do, do, do whatcher yer feel

 

 

[Bo Diddley]

2 hours ago, paul-s said:

Well said, just to be clear Kirsty, I never pigeon hole dancing, to me its a freedom and not to be judged, and I agree with all the comments so far. I just keep seeing these "proper" judgements online and I am mystified by them, and how they are defined...

Paul, Try asking these "experts" what ISN'T Proper and ask for examples. Might be interesting

It all seems "proper" to me.

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Proper dancin' is what I do, I got some great moves...

My lass reckons my repertoire of moves includes, the twist, the mod shuffle, a bit of twerking, running on the spot, the Johnny Thunders hair-flick and the Orangutan steering a ship in a storm.

Do I care? Nah, if people laugh at me then at least they're smilin', Like Peter said take the Rimshots' advice that's what I do, when I do dance I'm that into it I don't worry if I look a dick...

However bad your moves you can't look uncool when you're really diggin' it!

[Guest Max Morrison]

Music fills the air

And it seems to call my name, Listen now girl

And if you lend an ear,

I'm sure you'll hear the same girl

So let me baby, take you dancing, show you baby a good time

DANCE DANCE DANCE  I wanna dance

Who cares what "proper" dancing is? There's no such thing! 

Dance dance dance and stuff the rest!

[Paul-s]

42 minutes ago, bo diddley said:

Paul, Try asking these "experts" what ISN'T Proper and ask for examples. Might be interesting

It all seems "proper" to me.

 

Yes, I guess thats my point, by always harking on about 'proper dancing', it implies that there is somehow 'improper dancing' going on. I am in agreement with you, its all proper...

[Guest]

Aggressive dancers definitely catch peoples' attention but in between all the showmanship, occasionally you spot a true genius, such as the likes of the amazing Dave Bacon from over Barnsley way. His dancing is spellbinding, in my humble opinion! Who's to say what's "proper". It's all about self expression, innit?

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Because I play in a professional cabaret band playing 50s RnR and 50s/60s beat ballads to a ballroom crowd we see great dancing done properly all the time, and it is very impressive, mind you in that kinda style you do get to hold a woman in your arms!

When it comes to Northern soul dancin' I'm always drawn to this video for inspiration, I wanna dance like him, no heroics, just very slick moves!

 

[Russoul1]

love this guy dancing brilliant footwork

 

[Russoul1]

2 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Because I play in a professional cabaret band playing 50s RnR and 50s/60s beat ballads to a ballroom crowd we see great dancing done properly all the time, and it is very impressive, mind you in that kinda style you do get to hold a woman in your arms!

When it comes to Northern soul dancin' I'm always drawn to this video for inspiration, I wanna dance like him, no heroics, just very slick moves!

 

looks like gods waiting room with entertainment

yes seen this guy around a lot over the years a very natural fluent dancer and very tall!

[Bossfourpart1]

your reference to "In it "  covers the dancing style really.

I guess we have access to "on line dancing " footage today ,so the attending venues and watching and doing your own thing is no longer the only option.

People come in all shapes and sizes so their dancing reflects that .

The "Off the shelf dancing style" comes across a bit artificial really.

IMO.

[SOULMAN62]

Only two sets of bad dancers, hand baggers from dance school and space invaders who need all the floor , but sill can't dance.

 

[Twoshoes]

There used to be a woman attended one of the regular nights I used to go to, she stayed more or less on the same spot, no flamboyant moves just a very slow shuffle of the feet and I mean slow,I said to my mate I love watching her dance,you call that dancing he replied, to her it is was my retort, I've rarely seen anyone more in the zone,that personal bubble where no one and nothing else exists but the music, just magic watching herk knowing how she was feeling inside.

[Chris Turnbull]

14 hours ago, russoul1 said:

love this guy dancing brilliant footwork

 

Great clip. Funny thing, dancing - a bit like musical talent or being able to draw, you either have it or you don't. Unfortunately I don't  

[Kenb]

After 3 years out and about, I ‘found’ my dance moves in 1972. I was 19 yrs old. Once a dancer- always a dancer. But no talc here.

I still dance the same today, and go out about twice a month… albeit these days I’m a little less energetic and take more breaks between records. I can manage about 1 in 3 records so I’m more selective about what I get onto the floor for. And yes, and even now, some records just pull me onto the floor no matter how knackered I am.

As a re-tread, who ‘came back’ in 2011, I still think I can guess some of the venues that influenced the dance styles of the folks I see on the floor.

All-in-all, I love to see folks out on the floor, no matter what.

[Paul-s]

3 hours ago, Twoshoes said:

There used to be a woman attended one of the regular nights I used to go to, she stayed more or less on the same spot, no flamboyant moves just a very slow shuffle of the feet and I mean slow,I said to my mate I love watching her dance,you call that dancing he replied, to her it is was my retort, I've rarely seen anyone more in the zone,that personal bubble where no one and nothing else exists but the music, just magic watching herk knowing how she was feeling inside.

Im with you on that and I remember a similar woman always dressed her own way too......barely moving and deep into the music.

[soultronic]

great comments and clips , as a young kid at the Casino I always used to love watching Dave Evison on the dance floor ,just so fluid and a blur of feet. think I heard Dave talking about it on the radio one time saying it was a specific area thing from the Torch days . as said above this wonderful music just takes you to that special place , just go for it  - with consideration !  Big Mick from Bradford always class in the Northern /Modern room. used to love watching ''tall Paul'' doing his spins [ like to think all those wonderful dancers no longer with us are still doing it upstairs.  on a light hearted note as a lot of us get older it will be murder on the dance floor with some nasty zimmer frame collisions.

shorty

[Twoshoes]

I'm always impressed when I see someone dancing to the actual record,by that I mean they stray from their normal style and follow the rhythm pattern of the record,speeding up when the record does,clever foot moves to say a sax break or drum beat,not explaining it very well but I know it when I see it

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Twoshoes
own smiley came up as a question mark

[Bbrich]

33 minutes ago, Twoshoes said:

I'm always impressed when I see someone dancing to the actual record,by that I mean they stray from their normal style and follow the rhythm pattern of the record,speeding up when the record does,clever foot moves to say a sax break or drum beat,not explaining it very well but I know it when I see it

 

Totally agree & explained perfectly , better than just doing the same moves irrespective of the music.  I sort of think the music goes into your ears and comes out of your feet  {unfortunately for me at least this can involve a bit of a time delay & not all the message gets through.......}  

[Russ Vickers]

I have occasionally commented on such things with a 'thats proper' exclamation, I dont think I fit into the typical person who says such things, described in the intial post -  what I mean personally when I say that, is that I think the person is a good dancer & that its authentic, i.e a recognised NS style, usually personalised, which many of us do....I do not have any issue with how anyone dances, as long as they are enjoying themselves to the music, but a particularly good dance is a joy to behold.

I do have a question tho with regards to NS dancing.....the typical bouncy style you see in many of the older clips, 'This England' for eample (this style seems to have made a big come back with the younger NS dancers), seemed to go out of style for many years, you saw the odd person, but generally after about 1978 (?) you didnt see that many (or i didnt anyway), the more boxy style of dancing became more predominant, not as flamboyant, but still great to watch when you get a great dancer, Tommo for example & Keb.....why did this kinda dancing become more predominant & how did the different styles develop & why ?.....or am I being a bit over sensitive & its just one of those things ???....

Russ

[Paul-s]

2 hours ago, Twoshoes said:

I'm always impressed when I see someone dancing to the actual record,by that I mean they stray from their normal style and follow the rhythm pattern of the record,speeding up when the record does,clever foot moves to say a sax break or drum beat,not explaining it very well but I know it when I see it

 

Yes! That called being reflexive....responding in an improvised, nuanced and  immediate way to the music....

[Paul-s]

16 minutes ago, Russ Vickers said:

I have occasionally commented on such things with a 'thats proper' exclamation, I dont think I fit into the typical person who says such things, described in the intial post -  what I mean personally when I say that, is that I think the person is a good dancer & that its authentic, i.e a recognised NS style, usually personalised, which many of us do....I do not have any issue with how anyone dances, as long as they are enjoying themselves to the music, but a particularly good dance is a joy to behold.

I do have a question tho with regards to NS dancing.....the typical bouncy style you see in many of the older clips, 'This England' for eample (this style seems to have made a big come back with the younger NS dancers), seemed to go out of style for many years, you saw the odd person, but generally after about 1978 (?) you didnt see that many (or i didnt anyway), the more boxy style of dancing became more predominant, not as flamboyant, but still great to watch when you get a great dancer, Tommo for example & Keb.....why did this kinda dancing become more predominant & how did the different styles develop & why ?.....or am I being a bit over sensitive & its just one of those things ???....

Russ

Good point Russ. Personally I think the bouncy, wigan-centric, dance style revival is linked to parents schooling kids (thats how its done type of thing) , the media's obsession with that particular period and the influx of returnees who missed out on a vast period of musical development in the intervening years since their departure. There is now a sort of 'historical re-enactment scene' out there, by which I mean a scene or sub-scene,  where clothes, music and dancing are all pre-defined by a historical context,  and the dancing is marshalled and commented upon - it has to be historically correct. Its a scene that is linked to big money for promoters too. So called, World Dancing Competitions perpetuate and define this brand of Northern Soul and the dancing that goes with it - dancing that seemingly never evolves, but replicates. Just my opinion of course.

[Russ Vickers]

I agree with you entirely, but where did that 'boxy' style of dancing originate, most of my contemporaries favour this style & I have always danced this way, albeit with my own style.....Im talking ala Keb....although we all did a similar thing with out own personalised bits thrown in for good measure.  I was doing this style of dancing at Wigan Im sure ?...

[Jordirip]

I'm not bothered about the moves, just that whoever is attempting to dance to a tune is in time and actually look as though they are dancing to the record being played and not a totally different one in their own head. Those teapot moves though....* shakes head.

 

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Woodbutcher and twoshoes - spot on.

When I went to junior school we used to do country dancing and were taught certain steps, moves and routines and how to avoid bumping into each other on the floor. And ironically, when I was twelve I started to learn the piano and was persuaded to go to waltz, and cha cha cha lessons with some friends after going to Butlins in Skegness circa 1968. This taught me how to get more fun out of dancing than I imagined. However, the discipline of dancing or music for that matter, is when it has some form of order it works. For example, soul dancing to me is having a great time on the dance floor and being passionate about the music in the first instance and expressing those feelings with each song you choose to dance to, no matter what it looks like. That is the order I guess. Proper means 'suitable or appropriate', so I guess everybody is dancing proper by definition as there are no bespoke rules that I am aware of. However, for me, the beat is the basic step, but the instrumental flurries, b/v's or horn stabs for example, is where you can expand your foot and body work to basically become one of the instruments. So when Billy Miller shouts out 'Believe in me, your wish is my command' on The Inspirations track, that is where I do something slightly different to the verse and finish it on 'command'. Why, because it takes me somewhere to another level of enjoyment as it is almost like playing a game and winning!

Some people say it doesn't matter what you do, or look like. Correct...to them, but others have a different agenda with their performance. Look up the definition of 'dance'. A performance to a record known and loved by the dancer can often be seen as a very passionate routine where their body language clearly defines what they feel in their heads, by what they do with their feet. Their eyes and concentration tell all......it's is a joy to witness and see the tears often fall, out of euphoria.

And talking about the music and order and whether it matters, if the musicians on this session did what they pleased all of the time in the studio it would not sound as good as the version where some order, charts or even hand written sheet music was presented to perform the song. A good arranger would suggest freestyle maybe for the bass player or piano licks in places, but in general, there is a tempo, groove and notion established along with the charts and hey presto, a song.  The hook in this 'I was living a lie' etc is where the elation should take place along with the middle 8 where something else can be attempted dance/step wise! These songs deserve being danced to, by anybody in any style.  But seeing a performance by a passionate dancer is inspirational sometimes, when they are fully in tune with every beat and note.

For info:

Dance is a performance art form consisting of purposefully selected sequences of human movement. This movement has aesthetic and symbolic value, and is acknowledged as dance by performers and observers within a particular culture.^{[nb 1]} Dance can be categorised and described by its choreography, by its repertoire of movements, or by its historical period or place of origin.

 

Living a lie - The High Keys

Edited November 17, 2016 by Carl Dixon

[Wiggyflat]

Where did all the wedgeheads in Kung Fu slippers go who used to dance to Time and do that mad shuffle.I haven't seen any of the Nostalgia reactivators dance like that.Mr Sadot I have seen you go for it when you had hair tied back on that bouncy floor at The Ritz....you were no slouch.

[Len]

39 minutes ago, wiggyflat said:

Where did all the wedgeheads in Kung Fu slippers go who used to dance to Time and do that mad shuffle.I haven't seen any of the Nostalgia reactivators dance like that.Mr Sadot I have seen you go for it when you had hair tied back on that bouncy floor at The Ritz....you were no slouch.

I seen him there too! Yes great bouncy floor that (It made 'Wake Up To The Sunshine Girl' even better!) 

I used to really enjoy dancing down The 100 Club (Younger and fitter back then as well) Sometimes I felt I was ‘dancing on the f*cking ceiling!’ (Swear word needed there) A term I heard back then was ‘Dancing hard’, a great explanation that, which described everyone in the room! (What they looked like wasn't the issue)

Someone said to me once that they would love to see themselves dance. Not in a vain way I hasten to add, it was said more in a ‘I wonder what I look like’ kinda way. He then said……”Wouldn’t you Len?”…..I replied……”No way! I would be mortified if I saw myself dancing!”…..And I’m someone who accidentally won a dance competition just dancing away right at the back of the room (I didn’t know the competition was on) the prize was £4.00 btw 

I won’t name names, but I enjoy seeing the ‘Standing still’ dance - I hate any derogatory comments about anyone's dancing.

So (As you asked the question Paul) My personal interpretation of 'Proper dancing' is 'Dancing hard', which simply means enjoying the tunes in your own way (Maybe with a bit of 'Oooooomph!').....Not sure that is the intended / correct meaning though 

All the best,

Len 

[Guest]

I suppose to me "Proper Dancing" is someone dancing in a recognised Northern Soul style. 

And for me that is someone dancing with great footwork and style, like I remember from the best nights at the Casino, way back in the golden era!

Edited November 18, 2016 by Guest

[Guest adlchelsea]

With only being back dancing for 18months now, I dance the way I was taught, so feet always on the floor more slide than step, and I am teaching my 18 year old step daughter exactly the same way as I can't do any other, at the tower on sat the final 3 had very different dance styles the 2 older guys had knees up feet of floor styles but one was dancing in a small area where the other was more energetic with a wide movement (he won) the younger guy danced with feet on the floor sliding style very fast but not massive travel, I wanted him to win because it was more my style, but flip a coin and I wouldn't mind dancing like the winner because it looked great

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

58 minutes ago, wiggyflat said:

Where did all the wedgeheads in Kung Fu slippers go who used to dance to Time and do that mad shuffle.I haven't seen any of the Nostalgia reactivators dance like that.Mr Sadot I have seen you go for it when you had hair tied back on that bouncy floor at The Ritz....you were no slouch.

You can see how the Kung-Fu lot really liked dancing to 'Time' the intro is more or less exactly the same as the intro to the theme music for 'Enter the dragon', at the events I attend it's the women doing the kung-fu kicks either to Gene Chandler 'There was a time' or Mr Floods' party 'Compared to what', great to watch and I'm not talkin' young girls 'ere these are middle-aged women, good on 'em. I can't do it.

Shame that spinning in circle skirts with black stockings on, as in the RnR scene never caught on with the soul scene! There is that NS girl dancer on YT who does spins and handstands with thong pants on, don't work as well without the black stockings though, mind you I've only been told about it, haven't seen it myself obviously.

[Chris Turnbull]

30 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

here is that NS girl dancer on YT who does spins and handstands with thong pants on, don't work as well without the black stockings though, mind you I've only been told about it, haven't seen it myself obviously.

If you remember who it was that told you about it perhaps you could ask them to post the clip up lol

[Smudger]

The last 30 seconds sums up my style !

 

 

 

[BabyBoyAndMyLass]

15 minutes ago, Chris Turnbull said:

If you remember who it was that told you about it perhaps you could ask them to post the clip up lol

Not sure I can do that, it might be very embarrassing, for all I know it might be 'flamingEmeralds'...

Looking into it, seems as though there are many videos of her, for some reason it looks like she was a bit of a magnet for people with video-phones, with over 125,000 views it looks pretty popular!

Here goes but if it turns out to be Flamingemeralds all I can do is say sorry!

 

 

[Chris Turnbull]

6 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Not sure I can do that, it might be very embarrassing, for all I know it might be 'flamingEmeralds'...

Looking into it, seems as though there are many videos of her, for some reason it looks like she was a bit of a magnet for people with video-phones, with over 125,000 views it looks pretty popular!

Here goes but if it turns out to be Flamingemeralds all I can do is say sorry!

Like the way the camera casually pans left in the hope she'll do it again 

[Frankie Crocker]

9 hours ago, Twoshoes said:

I'm always impressed when I see someone dancing to the actual record,by that I mean they stray from their normal style and follow the rhythm pattern of the record,speeding up when the record does,clever foot moves to say a sax break or drum beat,not explaining it very well but I know it when I see it

 

Spot on. Requires a flexible outlook. Takes more skill based on experience. It's not just about throwing in a backdrop-kung fu kick sequence...

[Paul-s]

2 hours ago, LEN said:

I seen him there too! Yes great bouncy floor that (It made 'Wake Up To The Sunshine Girl' even better!) 

I used to really enjoy dancing down The 100 Club (Younger and fitter back then as well) Sometimes I felt I was ‘dancing on the f*cking ceiling!’ (Swear word needed there) A term I heard back then was ‘Dancing hard’, a great explanation that, which described everyone in the room! (What they looked like wasn't the issue)

Someone said to me once that they would love to see themselves dance. Not in a vain way I hasten to add, it was said more in a ‘I wonder what I look like’ kinda way. He then said……”Wouldn’t you Len?”…..I replied……”No way! I would be mortified if I saw myself dancing!”…..And I’m someone who accidentally won a dance competition just dancing away right at the back of the room (I didn’t know the competition was on) the prize was £4.00 btw 

I won’t name names, but I enjoy seeing the ‘Standing still’ dance - I hate any derogatory comments about anyone's dancing.

So (As you asked the question Paul) My personal interpretation of 'Proper dancing' is 'Dancing hard', which simply means enjoying the tunes in your own way (Maybe with a bit of 'Oooooomph!').....Not sure that is the intended / correct meaning though 

All the best,

Len 

"Dancing hard"...I like it Len!  In fact its great getting all these different insights from people on how they feel about the subject. 

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Not sure I can do that, it might be very embarrassing, for all I know it might be 'flamingEmeralds'...

Looking into it, seems as though there are many videos of her, for some reason it looks like she was a bit of a magnet for people with video-phones, with over 125,000 views it looks pretty popular!

Here goes but if it turns out to be Flamingemeralds all I can do is say sorry!

 

 

Bloody hell!

[Steve S 60]

To dance "proper", there's only one thing you need, and that's soul.

[El Corol]

4 hours ago, wiggyflat said:

Where did all the wedgeheads in Kung Fu slippers go who used to dance to Time and do that mad shuffle.I haven't seen any of the Nostalgia reactivators dance like that.Mr Sadot I have seen you go for it when you had hair tied back on that bouncy floor at The Ritz....you were no slouch.

One of em's sat here reading this thread , with no hair and a pair of M&S slippers on.

[SOULMAN62]

All i can say to this vid  , is W.T.F are they doig