Dancing from the outside: A new era?

[Paul-s]

With the rise in the past decade of people filming other people, or themselves, dancing, I have noticed a change in the the way people dance.

So, I just wanted to throw this question out there.
There seem to be a lot of instagram (or other Digital platforms) pages where individuals film themselves dancing alone to Northern Soul on location, or in a kitchen or other personal spaces. In other ongoing documentation of dancing, people film themselves or others dancing at soul events etc.

So, the question is, does this in turn lead to them performing? Rather than being 'in' the music are they 'outside' of the music looking at themselves acting being 'in' the music? Yes, of course this is always the case when cameras are involved: take 'This England' for instance or making a historically based film where you are re-creating a moment so that the movement reflects that period. But, when I am at an event with no cameras and the lights are low, I see and feel a different energy and movement in the dancing of the people as I watch. They are 'in' it so to speak...in the music. 

So, to sum up my babbling question: Is a new form of Northern Soul dancing developing that curates itself via the digital camera/platform and is purely performative for that purpose: because the dancers are primarily concerned with their individual filmic performance? 

Who cares is an obvious answer, so i'll get that one in. Any other observations/experiences are welcome.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Paul-s

[Geoffp]

10 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

With the rise in the past decade of people filming other people, or themselves, dancing, I have noticed a change in the the way people dance.

So, I just wanted to throw this question out there.
There seem to be a lot of instagram (or other Digital platforms) pages where individuals film themselves dancing alone to Northern Soul on location, or in a kitchen or other personal spaces. In other ongoing documentation of dancing, people film themselves or others dancing at soul events etc.

So, the question is, does this in turn lead to them performing? Rather than being 'in' the music are they 'outside' of the music looking at themselves acting being 'in' the music? Yes, of course this is always the case when cameras are involved: take 'This England' for instance or making a historically based film where you are re-creating a moment so that the movement reflects that period. But, when I am at an event with no cameras and the lights are low, I see and feel a different energy and movement in the dancing of the people as I watch. They are 'in' it so to speak...in the music. 

So, to sum up my babbling question: Is a new form of Northern Soul dancing developing that curates itself via the digital camera/platform and is purely performative for that purpose: because the dancers are primarily concerned with their individual filmic performance? 

Who cares is an obvious answer, so i'll get that one in. Any other observations/experiences are welcome.

 

Answer unquestionably is yes. Go out enough and you see loads of people going through their ‘ dance routine’

 Enjoying themselves immensely but patently obviously no love of the music. 

Just putting on a show to watch when they get home or as Pete Eccles would say ‘ they would dance if the fire alarm went off’

 

[Frankie Crocker]

11 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

With the rise in the past decade of people filming other people, or themselves, dancing, I have noticed a change in the the way people dance.

So, I just wanted to throw this question out there.
There seem to be a lot of instagram (or other Digital platforms) pages where individuals film themselves dancing alone to Northern Soul on location, or in a kitchen or other personal spaces. In other ongoing documentation of dancing, people film themselves or others dancing at soul events etc.

So, the question is, does this in turn lead to them performing? Rather than being 'in' the music are they 'outside' of the music looking at themselves acting being 'in' the music? Yes, of course this is always the case when cameras are involved: take 'This England' for instance or making a historically based film where you are re-creating a moment so that the movement reflects that period. But, when I am at an event with no cameras and the lights are low, I see and feel a different energy and movement in the dancing of the people as I watch. They are 'in' it so to speak...in the music. 

So, to sum up my babbling question: Is a new form of Northern Soul dancing developing that curates itself via the digital camera/platform and is purely performative for that purpose: because the dancers are primarily concerned with their individual filmic performance? 

Who cares is an obvious answer, so i'll get that one in. Any other observations/experiences are welcome.

 

An interesting thought. Your observation could well be correct. Self-obsessed YouTubers portray styles that could be practiced at soul venues. Videos of soul events depict a marked slowing down of movement, often associated with age etc In fact, much of the video material online shows a fair bit of Dad Dancing and Round The Handbags stuff.

The dancers who know and understand the music adapt their personal dance styles to the tunes eg 60’s v 70’s. Some folk can only dance one way whatever’s being played. At the end of the day, it’s what’s in the grooves that counts and folk should be free to dance as they choose. That said, uptempo soul music virtually requires nimble footwork so long may this tradition last as it’s fast disappearing.

 

[Amsterdam Russ]

2 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Self-obsessed YouTubers portray styles that could be practiced at soul venues. Videos of soul events depict a marked slowing down of movement, often associated with age etc In fact, much of the video material online shows a fair bit of Dad Dancing and Round The Handbags stuff.

Can you share a few YT links of what you mean?

[Sunnysoul]

This so called "rare soul scene", including the way people dance, has been changing and evolving since the early 60's mod movement. It will continue to do so for as long as it lasts.

Strictly from the dancing perspective, who set the original standard ? Was it those iconic figures of the 60's/70's such as Booper Matchy Gethro Caesar etc ?

Then came Stafford and the post-Wigan world in the 80's when there were more mid-temp sounds and RnB which demanded a different kind of physical movement ... as did "modern soul" which became an essential part of the scene. There was a different attitude within the scene in almost every respect.

Then since the 90's and the popularity of weekenders, for many, particularly the older members, it has become more of a social scene rather than dancing all night being the prime motivation for going to events. So that has influenced things enormously as well.

As for dancing and publishing on social media and the "inner self", the obvious example that comes to mind is Levanna. Her first few dance/music videos on Youtube caused a sensation which were loved by many but inevitably also had a number detractors who thought she was commercialising the scene and who also thought she would be a "fly by nighter" who would disappear from the scene in no time. Clearly not ! Levanna loves the music, loves the scene, and is happy to show and tell the  world about it by posting up on social media. And Levanna's own dancing style is great too but different from previous dancing styles on the scene. And she dances the same way when attending events as he does in her videos, depending on what style music of soul is being played of course.

Whether some like it or not, Levanna and others such as Jordan and Charlotte and Sally and Pops represent the rare soul scene for today and in to the future and that will only be a good thing.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Sunnysoul

[Paul-s]

9 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Can you share a few YT links of what you mean?

That would be unfair to the people who take part in the practice I think.

[Hooker1951]

You’ve got to feel it not pretend to feel it or it looks pretentious and false just going through the motions was never enough for me, if your feeling it you are enjoying it wether your a good dancer or not it’s your thing nobody else’s 

KR

Mick L

[Paul-s]

5 hours ago, Sunnysoul said:

This so called "rare soul scene", including the way people dance, has been changing and evolving since the early 60's mod movement. It will continue to do so for as long as it lasts.

Strictly from the dancing perspective, who set the original standard ? Was it those iconic figures of the 60's/70's such as Booper Matchy Gethro Caesar etc ?

Then came Stafford and the post-Wigan world in the 80's when there were more mid-temp sounds and RnB which demanded a different kind of physical movement ... as did "modern soul" which became an essential part of the scene. There was a different attitude within the scene in almost every respect.

Then since the 90's and the popularity of weekenders, for many, particularly the older members, it has become more of a social scene rather than dancing all night being the prime motivation for going to events. So that has influenced things enormously as well.

As for dancing and publishing on social media and the "inner self", the obvious example that comes to mind is Levanna. Her first few dance/music videos on Youtube caused a sensation which were loved by many but inevitably also had a number detractors who thought she was commercialising the scene and who also thought she would be a "fly by nighter" who would disappear from the scene in no time. Clearly not ! Levanna loves the music, loves the scene, and is happy to show and tell the  world about it by posting up on social media. And Levanna's own dancing style is great too but different from previous dancing styles on the scene. And she dances the same way when attending events as he does in her videos, depending on what style music of soul is being played of course.

Whether some like it or not, Levanna and others such as Jordan and Charlotte and Sally and Pops represent the rare soul scene for today and in to the future and that will only be a good thing.

I'm not sure that addresses the question, interesting though it is.

My post was not criticising Levanna or Sal & Pops (i wasn't aware Jordan & Charlotte filmed themselves dancing and i would say they are always 'in the music' and dance for joy rather than performance.
Of course dance changes over periods,  although i would say that a kind of parody/pastiche is quite dominant due to the historical re-enactment scene that dominates many venues: where the dance remains the same because the records remain the same. 

Additionally, I would not regard Levanna and Sal & Pops as representing the rare soul scene as the music they generally Dance/perform to are classic 'oldies'. Jordan and Charlotte however, are very much into rare newly discovered/underplayed old music and and dancing to that..

Back to the question........does dancing for iPhone and for the creation of digital platform content inform a new performative type of Northern Soul dancing 'on the outside' rather than 'from the inside'?
An example would be the performance of the hand gesture to the heart, or the facial gestures of 'being deep into the track' whilst, in reality, performing being deep into the music because you are aware of your iPhone performance and signalling that its Northern Soul dancing.
These historical hand signals/motifs and 'soul faces' seem to dominate the films that I view and seems performative as emblems of Northern Soul.
I'm not really asking if its is a good or a bad thing because that is purely subjective I think.

[Woodbutcher]

I think it's just that the 'younger' folk cannot seem to do anything these days without filming themselves doing it.

Whereas the 'older' ones who've been on the scene since the 'underground' days still prefer the darker corners away from the prying lenses in which to strut our stuff in our own little worlds . 

[Steve L]

I don’t know but I don’t see many decent dancers these days (IMO of course) either in person or on videos, in fact I really don’t like watching video clips. 
I suppose not many look like they’re “in” it to me

[Chalky]

5 hours ago, Steve L said:

I don’t know but I don’t see many decent dancers these days (IMO of course) either in person or on videos, in fact I really don’t like watching video clips. 
I suppose not many look like they’re “in” it to me

Yep mainly folk just wobbling about, little footwork and they just look like they are going through the motions.  I know many are getting on a bit but still……

Those that can still do it seem to be dancing to a different record to what is playing, as Paul says just performing for the camera.  

[Frankie Crocker]

19 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Can you share a few YT links of what you mean?

Not easily done. As soon as I see someone dancing in their back garden, in a chip shop, around a statue, in a park, in their kitchen etc, I hit the stop button ASAP. I’ll leave it to the YouTubers to work out who are the most narcissistic...some of them have lots of self-produced videos...

[Steve L]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

Yep mainly folk just wobbling about, little footwork and they just look like they are going through the motions.  I know many are getting on a bit but still……

Those that can still do it seem to be dancing to a different record to what is playing, as Paul says just performing for the camera.  

Of course this contributes to the almost zero levels of atmosphere in venues now as well -most of em don't look like they're feeling the music but thats another story I suppose

Edited February 28, 2023 by Steve L

[Mickey Finn]

One of the reasons we enjoy attending soul events is the northern rooms where you can almost always find people who dance with passion and who are totally into the music. At this January's Blackpool LSW, where northern content has sadly pretty much shrunk to almost zero, Soul Sam and Barry Maleady now hold the fort, unfortunately overlapping with the concert on the Saturday. But before we headed off to the concert we heard Sam play a terrific set that had the floor busy from early doors right up to the changeover, and the highlight for me was seeing the dancefloor response to Bobby Thurston's "Just ask me" - no cameras, just sheer joy, and in the background the familiar bobbing figure of a master at work.

Well worth the price of entry.

[Geeselad]

Very interesting cultural development really, ' dance like the whole worlds Watching',but sadly a reflection on society at large. Similarly we an army of dance instructors ready to make a buck from a bunch of older folk who heard northern soul at the youthy when they were 15. I wonder if a sociologist is writing a paper on senior citizens subcultures? Definitely not sexy enough for most university professors. 

[Geeselad]

I have to say Paul, it's not specific to NS, look at break dancing or footwerk for example, are those guys really into the music or just showing their skills? There has always been a competitive element in NS, some amazing dancers that have all the moves technically, but never look like they were ' feeling it'. 

[Hooker1951]

When your feeling it dancing is magic for your soul and your body and your spirituality and I believe you give an aurora of energy and presence that’s visible to people on the same wave length as you, that said it doesn’t have to be gymnastics by any means you’ve either got it or you haven’t I’ve always felt it that way with good music and of course good company.

keep on Dancing

ML

[Petesi]

My opinion and please don`t take this as gospel or repeat what I am about to say..

The good dancers dance for themselves and their own enjoyment , in time with the record playing , moves only in the breaks etc and can sing along and change steps with the beat. The ones that aren`t so good usually dance the same way and unusually at the same pace to each and every tune!! And they think that talc will help em? Ouch.

Please don`t repeat any of this its just an old gits opinion.

[Paul-s]

20 hours ago, Geeselad said:

Very interesting cultural development really, ' dance like the whole worlds Watching',but sadly a reflection on society at large. Similarly we an army of dance instructors ready to make a buck from a bunch of older folk who heard northern soul at the youthy when they were 15. I wonder if a sociologist is writing a paper on senior citizens subcultures? Definitely not sexy enough for most university professors. 

There is actually a very good book, not current though, about ageing and youth cultures. Has a chapter called

'Parenthood and the Transfer of Capital in the Northern Soul Scene'

It makes some interesting points, but also some tenuous ones.

It's from 2012 so is in need of an update really.

 

 

 

.

[Steve L]

23 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

When your feeling it dancing is magic for your soul and your body and your spirituality and I believe you give an aurora of energy and presence that’s visible to people on the same wave length as you, 

keep on Dancing

ML

That’s what’s always created an “atmosphere” something that is sadly lacking nowadays 

[Dave2]

Defo yes.  Yes.  And collectively, no.

Those who specifically film themselves/ other dancers in this context, generally want to reach a wider (social media) audience: to inform, entertain (and even educate) maybe?   Not saying it’s a bad thing to see people performing like dancing monkeys in front of a lens at soul venues - you’re there to enjoy the night socially - but personally, NS dancing for me, has never been about entertaining or performing for anyone. 

You can’t truly be ‘in’ it, if the aim is to gain social media attention (likes/ views/ re-tweets etc).   This isn’t what NS dancing is about.   A camera lens pointing at me, is never going to influence me to move a certain way.  If it ever did, it would be like following a script, and the spontaneity of what you are hearing the music making you do, would be false and feel fabricated.  That doesn't sit right with me.  

I doubt a new order of social media influencers filming from the edge of dance floors, is changing the form of NS dancing across the scene, but it's certainly noticeable and part of everyday norm.   I’m not saying social media/ filming has not strongly influenced the NS dance scene - rather it has operating it’s at the fringes, widely tolerated and accepted, but always from the ‘outside’.

ATB

Dave.

[Lionelonthevinyl]

I'm crap at dancing But definitely dance to the records I love...I only have one dance as have zero rhythm to any tune I really enjoy myself but for God's sake never film  me unless it's for a comedy video of the worst dancers at a venue...I do like a good chin stroke though and chew the fat about records!! Thank you and great thread.....Rob

Edited March 4, 2023 by Lionelonthevinyl

[Leicester Boy]

12 hours ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

I'm crap at dancing But definitely dance to the records I love...I only have one dance as have zero rhythm to any tune I really enjoy myself but for God's sake never film  me unless it's for a comedy video of the worst dancers at a venue...I do like a good chin stroke though and chew the fat about records!! Thank you and great thread.....Rob

The main thing is you enjoy yourself, which is more than we both do watching our teams at the minute.

[Geeselad]

Interesting development in what left of clubland, phone ban, Fabric is possible the nation's most significant club. 

https://mixmag.net/read/fabric-london-bans-photography-video-phones-news

 

[Lionelonthevinyl]

8 hours ago, Leicester Boy said:

The main thing is you enjoy yourself, which is more than we both do watching our teams at the minute.

Absolutely regarding the football my friend!! It's totally about the music for me. Don't know why you would want to film yourself but each to there own..daft world we live in I guess...as !ong as your happy, crack on!. Thank you...Rob

[Jez Jones]

On 01/03/2023 at 17:04, Geeselad said:

Very interesting cultural development really, ' dance like the whole worlds Watching',but sadly a reflection on society at large. Similarly we an army of dance instructors ready to make a buck from a bunch of older folk who heard northern soul at the youthy when they were 15. I wonder if a sociologist is writing a paper on senior citizens subcultures? Definitely not sexy enough for most university professors. 

Yeah we could stray into the realms of modernity in an instance as we examine the 'gaze'

In critical theory, sociology, and psychoanalysis, the gaze (French le regard), in the philosophical and figurative sense, is an individual's (or a group's) awareness and perception of other individuals, other groups, or oneself. 


Lets dance !!!! all the way to the halls of academia

there'll be no answer ...but there will be a damn good discussion

[Paul-s]

21 hours ago, Geeselad said:

Interesting development in what left of clubland, phone ban, Fabric is possible the nation's most significant club. 

https://mixmag.net/read/fabric-london-bans-photography-video-phones-news

 

A phone ban would be a brilliant idea for sure in my humble opinion.