Soul Night Disgrace

[Guest]

I have been collecting records years and I honestly cant say that I dont have the odd reissue or boot but there are from the seventies / early eighties when I couldnt afford to spend a fortune.

In a lot of cases i think the audience get what it deserves, when a DJ tries to play a set out of the norm people dont dance and the promoters get worried that it will be classed as a bad night.

Therefore there is demand for the same records wherever you go and as long as the punters hear what they want to dance to in the main they are happy.

If the DJ is who I think it is she is good friend of mine and a real soulie

If she gets the dance floor full good on her, thats what the promoters and punters want

I think one of the main causes is the number of soul nights that are primarily playing similar stuff in a lot of cases in not a large area, so the top DJs cant be at every venue.

Me and a mate are starting a soul night near warrington next month where we wont be playing top 500 but good sixties soul R&B and popcorn and although she isnt DJing I know she will be there to support the venue

I have been to some bloody awful soul nights in the last 6 months and some crackers but I just changed my nights out accordingly rather than slagging them off

Just as an aside what's the view on MP3s, are these just boots in an electronic format(sometimes to be made into boots) or a medium for hearing new sounds?

[Chalky]

hit the nail on the head there bud

no he didn't, you don't have to spend lots to get good dancers (records that is), there's plenty that will get the dancers on the floor

[Zed1]

Me and a mate are starting a soul night near warrington next month where we wont be playing top 500 but good sixties soul R&B and popcorn and although she isnt DJing I know she will be there to support the venue

A little off topic but given Warrington is my 'area' where will you be having this Night?...

........ and at the risk of looking a bit of a numpty, what on earth is "Popcorn"?...

[Simsy]

Ok i know this thread has been on before but i just have to get this off my chest. Last night i travelled to a northern soul venue ( No name mentioned ) to listen and enjoy a night of good music and i was not let down. However i have been collecting vinyl now for about 20 years and have a decent collection of originals of which i have spent a small fortune on and seached and haggled for that elusive single to put in my box. So when a Dj gets up and starts playing great originals be it £20 or £2000 i know he has worked hard to build a collection and reputation to stand proudly behind the decks.

What a HATE however is a person who strolls up and is allowed to play an hour of bootlegs and re issues of rare records without the other Djs batting an eyelid and stepping off the decks to a round of applause. The set SHE played was fine except for the absence of 90%originals. Maybe im being a little biast but if i had been going on next i would have been cheesed off Knowing a £1000 original i was going to play had been played on a £5 bootleg previously.

I realise that the average northern soul punter doesn't care what format the record is as long as they can dance, but surely the event organisers sould stop this to keep some credability to there soul event. Needless to say we left before the end.

Bootleg doesn't just apply to the record. It extends to the DJ, his/her set and also taints (at the least) the venue they are DJ'ing at, if that's what they're playing to the paying punter. PAYING punter can't be over-emphasized for the point of this principal imo. For if you go to a local do at a pub function room, it's free to get in, then there's not too much to complain about I wouldn't think. Pay £8, or a tenner in a venue that there's a couple of hundred people at and that's a whole different vegetable.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Ian Sims

[Soul Shrews]

A little off topic but given Warrington is my 'area' where will you be having this Night?...

........ and at the risk of looking a bit of a numpty, what on earth is "Popcorn"?...

The term "popcorn" in this instance refers to a scene in Belgium where they played "popcorn" music, originating @ the "Popcorn Club"

Its a varied musical dance scene some of which "crosses over" to the Northern scene.

Hope this helps

Cheers Paul

PS Nothing to do with a cinema confectionary

[Pete Eccles]

Bootleg doesn't just apply to the record. It extends to the DJ, his/her set and also taints (at the least) the venue they are DJ'ing at, if that's what they're playing to the paying punter. PAYING punter can't be over-emphasized for the point of this principal imo. For if you go to a local do at a pub function room, it's free to get in, then there's not too much to compain about I wouldn't think. Pay £8, or a tenner in a venue that there's a couple of hundred people at and that's a whole different vegetable.

Agree Ian, a town centre pub where i live is packed every weekend playing motown/northern/club soul, only ever called in a couple of times and thought it was great and a pleasant change from the usual town center dross,

But paying £5+ to get in a venue that its promoters and its regulars want to be considered as a 'serious' soul event, where DJs are trying to climb the ladder of credibility by playing obvious 'boots' of current bigger ticket tunes doesn't quite sit as comfortably with me,

But as said before, not the be all and end all, just don't go,

[Guest Bogue]

Bootleg doesn't just apply to the record. It extends to the DJ, his/her set and also taints (at the least) the venue they are DJ'ing at, if that's what they're playing to the paying punter. PAYING punter can't be over-emphasized for the point of this principal imo. For if you go to a local do at a pub function room, it's free to get in, then there's not too much to compain about I wouldn't think. Pay £8, or a tenner in a venue that there's a couple of hundred people at and that's a whole different vegetable.

Would like to think that we could all agree on that point Ian, but from previous times that this subject has cropped up i somehow doubt it !

[Winsford Soul]

JORDAN WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE THE DECKS

She would. If i got the job of holding her boobs out of the way

Steve

[Pete Eccles]

She would. If i got the job of holding her boobs out of the way

Steve

Can just picture you Steve that would be priceless!

[Dr Good Soul]

Why is it that people think unless the playlist is top 500 popular oldies, anything else will clear the floor? Lots of great tunes under £50 that are well known and would fill a dance floor. Lots of DJ's out there with tunes that were £10 sounds when they first bought 'em that are worth a lot more now too, and can be played to a full floor. I just think, (and I fully understand the punters not giving a shite angle) that someone who has put in the work, time and money to build a decent collection, whatever the price, should be head and shoulders above someone playing boots. I just don't believe they deserve to be behind the decks, IMHO, and that won't change.

Totally agree with you mate, what iv'e been trying to get across to some people

for ages

but i think it's a losing battle, too many want to take the easy option IMHO for what it's worth

Steve A

[Zed1]

The term "popcorn" in this instance refers to a scene in Belgium where they played "popcorn" music, originating @ the "Popcorn Club"

Its a varied musical dance scene some of which "crosses over" to the Northern scene.

Hope this helps

Cheers Paul

PS Nothing to do with a cinema confectionary

Thanks for that Paul (I think)...

I thought I had missed the weekly meeting of the 'Soul classification board' where all the 'experts' meet in darkened smoke filled rooms and try to come up with another sub genre name to give to the music!...

[Winsford Soul]

Can just picture you Steve that would be priceless!

Pete.I wish i had the picture.

Steve

[Simsy]

Would like to think that we could all agree on that point Ian, but from previous times that this subject has cropped up i somehow doubt it !

We'll argue about it after MOTD if you like?

Seriously, if there was a salient point you've previously made that flies in the face of my well reasoned posting, I'd like to here about it. Again.

[Guest Bogue]

We'll argue about it after MOTD if you like?

Seriously, if there was a salient point you've previously made that flies in the face of my well reasoned posting, I'd like to here about it. Again.

S*** didn't realise the time !!!

No, i seriously agree with you Ian ! Just i think a good few see it as 'original vinyl only' no if's or buts !

[kathdj]

What are all these £10 and £50 records . . . ? Mine cost me 6 shillings and 8 pence or 7 shillings and 6 pence

[Chalky]

What are all these £10 and £50 records . . . ? Mine cost me 6 shillings and 8 pence or 7 shillings and 6 pence

your obviously a lot older than some of us

Edited January 12, 2008 by chalky

[kathdj]

your obviously a lot older than some of us

Original pressing . . . VG + but some wear on the cover!! Plays without jumping (but has been known to dance a bit!)

[Chalky]

Original pressing . . . VG + but some wear on the cover!! Plays without jumping (but has been known to dance a bit!)

reading some of your reply I could reply and lower the tone even more

[Citizen P]

Totally agree with you mate, what iv'e been trying to get across to some people

for ages

but i think it's a losing battle, too many want to take the easy option IMHO for what it's worth

Steve A

Blimey, the very conversation you and I were having earlier

Don't you think though. that anybody with a feel and passion for the music, should be able to find reasonably priced examples?

Mind you- Here's another Classic

Tony

[Guest]

I thought the season for 'old chestnuts roasting in an open fire' had just gone !!!

Can we clarify if it was an upfront venue or just a local soul night ?

My take on it is that there is room for both train of thoughts !

Without the upfront places & their original 'vinyl only' policy the flow of new discoveries would probably stop as it's these type of nutters that have the dedication & willpower to search out the tunes.

But in saying that, if you restrict everything to original 'vinyl only' you would end up with just a tiny little scene & eventualy the death of it due to the fact that no one bar the few who are able to travel the length of the country would get to hear the stuff coming through anyhow !

I personaly just can't see the point of restricting what people can hear on the basis of 'because it was so in the past' ! On one hand you have people moaning because 'divies' & 'handbagers' only like the old played out crap, only to then on the other hand say that they shouldn't be able to hear the 'real' stuff ! That is unless they travel 200 miles at least !

So in short, if it was a local soul night so bleedin' what ! If it was a recognised upfront venue frequented by people who take it very seriously then no it's not right !

Not that i would be bothered either way ! To me vinyl is for collecting & music is for listening & dancing to !!!

spot on

[Hitsville Chalky]

Ok i know this thread has been on before but i just have to get this off my chest. Last night i travelled to a northern soul venue ( No name mentioned ) to listen and enjoy a night of good music and i was not let down. However i have been collecting vinyl now for about 20 years and have a decent collection of originals of which i have spent a small fortune on and seached and haggled for that elusive single to put in my box. So when a Dj gets up and starts playing great originals be it £20 or £2000 i know he has worked hard to build a collection and reputation to stand proudly behind the decks.

What a HATE however is a person who strolls up and is allowed to play an hour of bootlegs and re issues of rare records without the other Djs batting an eyelid and stepping off the decks to a round of applause. The set SHE played was fine except for the absence of 90%originals. Maybe im being a little biast but if i had been going on next i would have been cheesed off Knowing a £1000 original i was going to play had been played on a £5 bootleg previously.

I realise that the average northern soul punter doesn't care what format the record is as long as they can dance, but surely the event organisers sould stop this to keep some credability to there soul event. Needless to say we left before the end.

TOTAL RESPECT FOR YOU FOR STARTING THIS THREAD AND I STAND BY YOU WHAT YOU SAID , I HATE THIS SORT OF THING LIKE YOU I ONLY PLAY ORIGINALS AND THEN SOME OTHER DJ'S GET AWAY WITH PLAYING BOOTS AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY HAVE NO RESPECT TO THE DJ WHO AS BROUGHT THE ORIGINAL , WHAT I SAY DON'T BOOK THEM.

[Soulcarp]

What are all these £10 and £50 records . . . ? Mine cost me 6 shillings and 8 pence or 7 shillings and 6 pence

wish my 10 or 50 quid records cost me 6s & 9d but then they would be oldies i think its time for

[Guest vinylvixen]

Interesting stuff and i don't see that money calls the shots on a good unknown record. I remember in the early days of the Capitol we were playing lots of £10-£50 unknown records that are nowadays £100+. Alan, i and others had compiled boxes of records during our visits to the record bar at the 100club etc. Its just no one had the balls to play them and when we did people went for it. Yeah some didn't work but many did and later we just got back to rare stuff but always every dj through a few cheap things in. Maybe thats to do with doing regular sets and having the time to play them same records over and over again. I agree that boots should be for your feet only but these things happen and i could name nearly all the top dj's spinning the odd one over the years.

But an hour of Boots is takin the p*ss. I mean theres only so much we can take at our age.

Just my thoughts, now where did i put that emi disc of the temptones lol

greg

Greg - I seem to remember Alan playing 'The Girl with the Big Black Boots'.... Perhaps a sub-title for this thread....plus I'm short, fat, quite good on the mike, passable norks and I'm prepared to stand in a soul police line up to prove that it wasn't me

[bri phill]

TOTAL RESPECT FOR YOU FOR STARTING THIS THREAD AND I STAND BY YOU WHAT YOU SAID , I HATE THIS SORT OF THING LIKE YOU I ONLY PLAY ORIGINALS AND THEN SOME OTHER DJ'S GET AWAY WITH PLAYING BOOTS AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY HAVE NO RESPECT TO THE DJ WHO AS BROUGHT THE ORIGINAL , WHAT I SAY DON'T BOOK THEM.

What the feeling on here about DJs just whacking a tape on say a c90,which they could do at home from some bootleg CDs then he could have a few beers at the bar and mix with the punters instead of being stuck on stage..No point in lugging a box about he could just put it into his top pocket and no risk of being mugged for his tunes and he would save a fortune on them £10 sounds he could even put some "lets be having you chants on it"

[Hitsville Chalky]

What the feeling on here about DJs just whacking a tape on say a c90,which they could do at home from some bootleg CDs then he could have a few beers at the bar and mix with the punters instead of being stuck on stage..No point in lugging a box about he could just put it into his top pocket and no risk of being mugged for his tunes and he would save a fortune on them £10 sounds he could even put some "lets be having you chants on it"

HE COULD DO BUT SURLEY WHY USE A TAPE WHEN HE COULD PLAY A CD BUT HE MUST CHANT " LETS BE HAVING YOU " WITH PASSION YOU CAN'T BOOTLEG THAT !

[Guest Bearsy]

But is the Primark lable ok Paul ?

not really Simon cos it makes you look really old

[Guest Bearsy]

Blame the promoter(s).

naming and shaming the DJ does no good - it is not their fault. they have been asked to do a job and done it. The promoter should know who he/she is getting on to DJ. And if the promoters policy is to hire DJ's who play boots etc then that is their perogative.

i used to be firmly up my own arse about this and get really pi*sed when DJs played boots; but then i mellowed and saw the bigger picture.

These promoters are putting on soul nites for the enjoyment of their punters. I am of course not talking about 'big' soul nites or niters who aim to bring in peolpe from a far, but the 'local' soul nites - and i don't mean to be degrogatory with that term, there are plenty of excellent 'local' nites; but generally at these venues it is for the 'local' catchment area whose punters want their monthly, or 2 monthly fix of northern soul - and that generally means they want to hear oldies and don't care what format it comes in - original, reissue, boot or cd. They do not want to hear £10 to £50 records they don't know - they want to hear stuff they know to go and dance.

And lets hope that some people attending these nites then want to broaden their horizons and then want to go on further to other venues where the music policy is more to 'our' liking.

But don't diss (that is apperently a hip saying) these events for their music policy - they are providing what is needed for them and their paying punters; and have been a part of the soul scene way before my time, and hopefully way after my time.

After a while you get to know the DJ's and promoters who offer this sort of nite and if you don't like it, don't go. I used to co-promote a nite down here, with Steve C, and our policy was origianls only. And we only booked DJs who would satisfy that - hence alot of local DJs did not get booked and so may have had their noses put out of joint. Tough, that was our policy and we made it clear.

And lets not forget that most DJ's at these events are playing golden oldies to please the floor, so if you have the original - go buy some other different original (i will of course change my stance on this if i start hearing things like the Mello Souls at these do's - then the magic of hearing an original will be gone)

I think there is room for both sort of events within this scene and as i said, hopefull some people at the nites playing boots will go onto the other nites.

And this is from Me, who has NEVER played a boot or reissue in his part-time DJ life.

spot on Dave

[coops]

Right off topic, I suppose, but I`ve been out since I read this thread when it was 3 or posts in and I`ve tried to keep up by reading back until I got to the post where some fella called a woman ( I guess) `Angel`Now this sexist, patronising, demeaning mode of speech just riles me. OK if the person in question wasn`t offended but I was: Anyway, might be `on `thread with all the talk about sexism.

sorry you took offence but what hell has it got to do with you?...... just asking

[sister dawn]

sorry you took offence but what hell has it got to do with you?...... just asking

no worries from me studmuffin

[sister dawn]

A little off topic but given Warrington is my 'area' where will you be having this Night?...

........ and at the risk of looking a bit of a numpty, what on earth is "Popcorn"?...

ah teapot its derived from corn..... you can have it salty or a sweet the toffee coated one is quite nice ....... but you have to know how to handle the bag first to really get the good stuff up .... the ones still whole at the bottom of the bag didnt really want to be eaten as they were unsure as to if they were worthy or not to make the grade as true popcorn.

[Barry]

"Burn The Witch!?"

At the risk of once again causing a commotion by expressing my opinion -

Would this scenario ever happened when Northern was an underground scene, policed by it's own integrity?

I think not.

Proof that when things get watered down and opened up for the 'greater good', they aren't always better?

May I add that whoever the lass is, as has been said before, it isn't really her fault - she was expressing her love for her music in the only way she could afford.

Not really reason for the dunking stool ay?

[Tony Foster]

Would you go in to a restaurant where the chef was arguing with the management and the staff were complaining about which supermarket the ingredients had been purchased from?

I am sure the answer to this would be no!!!!

However you expect punters to pay in many cases £5 per head to go to a soul night where everybody is complaining about what people play and what it's played off.

The punters don't care in the slightest what you play it off. They are only there for a good time which I am sure they will not be getting with all the bickering going on!!!

Many people can't afford to pay the big prices of the originals and really are only interested in the sound and not what it is played off!!!

This has gone on for years!!! I remember an article in Blues and Soul in the 70's totalling up the cost of records played in a very popular DJ's sets at the Casino. They had a look at the average wage and rarity of the tunes and there was no way the DJ's at the time could afford all of them and even if they had the finances because of the rarity they would not be able to find them to order at the time.

One example was Larry Clinton - She's Wanted. Almost every DJ at the time seemed to have a copy??? They all couldn't be originals!!!

And this was before it was pressed on grapevine!!!!

I know that one DJ who has been there from the beginning used to play William Powell off an emi disc, week in week out and packed the floor and no one complained!!! If you had the original you were extremely lucky!!!!

The people who attended the Casino didn't care a jot!!! They were only there for one reason because they loved the music!!! The success of the venue was legendary!!!

Please realise you are driving punters away; they don't want to hear all the politics of who played what off what!!! A DJ's job is to pack the floor know matter what! Not an easy job at times I'll grant you!!!

Why should punters not be able to hear there favourite tunes at a venue because the DJ either can't find or can't afford the original.

Let's work on taking this music forward and not killing it for good!!! Without the scene how much would your rare records be worth???

Edited January 13, 2008 by Tony Foster

[Jellybean]

Would you go in to a restaurant where the chef was arguing with the management and the staff were complaining about which supermarket the ingredients had been purchased from?

I am sure the answer to this would be no!!!!

However you expect punters to pay in many cases £5 per head to go to a soul night where everybody is complaining about what people play and what it's played off.

The punters don't care in he slightest what you play it off. They are only there for a good time which I am sure they will not be getting with all the bickering going on!!!

Many people can't afford to pay the big prices of the originals and really are only interested in the sound and not what it is played off!!!

This has gone on for years!!! I remember an article in Blues and Soul in the 70's totalling up the cost of records played in a very popular DJ's sets at the Casino. They had a look at the average wage and rarity of the tunes and there was no way the DJ's at the time could afford all of them and even if they had the finances because of the rarity they would not be able to find them to order at the time.

One example was Larry Clinton - She's Wanted. Almost every DJ at the time seemed to have a copy??? They all couldn't be originals!!!

And this was before it was pressed on grapevine!!!!

I know that one DJ who has been there from the beginning used to play William Powell off an emi disc, week in week out and packed the floor and no one complained!!! If you had the original you were extremely lucky!!!!

The people who attended the Casino didn't care a jot!!! They were only there for one reason because they loved the music!!! The success of the venue was legendary!!!

Please realise you are driving punters away; they don't want to hear all the politics of who played what off what!!! A DJ's job is to pack the floor know matter what! Not an easy job at times I'll grant you!!!

Why should punters not be able to hear there favourite tunes at a venue because the DJ either can't find or can't afford the original.

Let's work on taking this music forward and not killing it for good!!! Without the scene how much would your rare records be worth???

Well said Tony!!! ....JB xxx

[Pauldonnelly]

Those that collect boots, pressings and cravers to play out at northern soul social nights I have no problem with whatsoever as long as those that do it and those they are attempting to entertain enjoy it.

I am a collector NOT a dj and to that end would never consider purchasing a bootleg, its my perosnal choice, theres something very special about waiting 25 years to get a record rather than sending a cd to Vinyl Carvers or spending £100 on a Billy Arnell boot.

Dkof has an origonal vinyl policy and would now NEVER employ anyone that plays boots no matter WHO or SHE was, thats not being elitist thats having ethics and principles that your stick too, no compromise, no surrender!!!

Edited January 13, 2008 by PaulDonnelly

[Nickg]

The punters don't care in the slightest what you play it off. They are only there for a good time which I am sure they will not be getting with all the bickering going on!!!

If that was the case we wouldn't be having this debate and there wouldn't be any bickering going on

[Zed1]

ah teapot its derived from corn..... you can have it salty or a sweet the toffee coated one is quite nice ....... but you have to know how to handle the bag first to really get the good stuff up .... the ones still whole at the bottom of the bag didnt really want to be eaten as they were unsure as to if they were worthy or not to make the grade as true popcorn.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Dawn as I would not have wanted to pour hot butter over my (original) copy of 'Nine Times out of Ten' now would I?....

........However!, Have you and your 'Norks' not got any Cleaning or Housework to be getting on with?.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Teapot

[Jellybean]

Is she quite tall ,with black hair in a bob style..initial " D "

Bazza

Yeah she is actually!! And she,s also a very good mate of mine

JB

[Mark Bicknell]

All doom and gloom on here ain't it? both venues and DJ's being constantly slagged off at the drop of a hat, quite frankly and I'm serious when I say this it matters very little to me how x,y, z DJ's present themselves all I bother about is how I set my stall out, authentic and real simple as that, there are so many negatives going off with this scene it's getting to the stage that I'm sure many of us don't really give a flying fig anymore regarding this petty simply not important stuff, far too much negative opinion for my liking and it's driving a massive wedge into the very heart of this scene and it's not a pretty site, how come I'm made to feel like I really can't be bothered with it anymore on a full on basis? why? I'll tell you why it's because of this 'I know better than you attitude' far too much debate and little else is said or done to actually improve things, simply don't book the pretender DJ's or if you do then don't moan or complain when it goes tit's up like this example, also why is it that the negative threads get loads of hits and comments, replies etc. yet the real deal interesting factual threads on artists, records etc. sometimes are hardly viewed? perhaps having a pop and a dig gives more satisfaction to some than actually making a constructive contribution to something that people can actually benifit from, do something about to change and improve things, no far easier to have a go! the amount of people who no longer come onto forums like this is pretty big and I'm sure because of this constant barrage of the same old arguments and debates, it's boring people big time!

Sure debate is important but so is a resolution and suggestions to correct and improve the scene in general, I'm sure the DJ in question here feels pretty shitty because of the comments here and her only intention was to entertain for an hour, however standing up behind a set of decks on a stage seems to be open season if you can't present the real deal? perhaps we need to get back to the very foundation of the art of DJ'ing and play authentic set's from first generation original authentic 45's then there would be no argument regarding the authentisity of the records at least.

Like I say myself and many other DJ's choose to do it via the original only route but believe me over the years I've seen first hand many DJ boxes with shall we say a real hotch-potch content in terms of 100% authenticity of original records, again from my own personal perspective alongside a good few other DJ's can challenge anyone to find anththing less than original 45's in my DJ boxes, could this be said of everyone out there DJ'ing? I think not. but is it really important? yes to me it is but from the top of this reply it's how I choose to conduct myself and with the way I apply what I do then this commands, respect, reputation, entertainment value etc. as a rare soul DJ because deep down that's what we are dealing with here a rare soul scene, rare means hard to find, not often seen, hard to find etc. and there I will leave it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Chalky]

If that was the case we wouldn't be having this debate and there wouldn't be any bickering going on

I agree Nick. I'm a punter as well not just a collector etc and I do care about what I go out to listen to. If a venue is going to take my hard earned money then they should at least have the decency to tell me that the guest DJ is going to play a set consisting of 90% boots. Like Dave said earlier it's the promoter's (not all of them btw) who don't care.

[Pauldonnelly]

All doom and gloom on here ain't it? both venues and DJ's being constantly slagged off at the drop of a hat, quite frankly and I'm serious when I say this it matters very little to me how x,y, z DJ's present themselves all I bother about is how I set my stall out, authentic and real simple as that, there are so many negatives going off with this scene it's getting to the stage that I'm sure many of us don't really give a flying fig anymore regarding this petty simply not important stuff, far too much negative opinion for my liking and it's driving a massive wedge into the very heart of this scene and it's not a pretty site, how come I'm made to feel like I really can't be bothered with it anymore on a full on basis? why? I'll tell you why it's because of this 'I know better than you attitude' far too much debate and little else is said or done to actually improve things, simply don't book the pretender DJ's or if you do then don't moan or complain when it goes tit's up like this example, also why is it that the negative threads get loads of hits and comments, replies etc. yet the real deal interesting factual threads on artists, records etc. sometimes are hardly viewed? perhaps having a pop and a dig gives more satisfaction to some than actually making a constructive contribution to something that people can actually benifit from, do something about to change and improve things, no far easier to have a go! the amount of people who no longer come onto forums like this is pretty big and I'm sure because of this constant barrage of the same old arguments and debates, it's boring people big time!

Sure debate is important but so is a resolution and suggestions to correct and improve the scene in general, I'm sure the DJ in question here feels pretty shitty because of the comments here and her only intention was to entertain for an hour, however standing up behind a set of decks on a stage seems to be open season if you can't present the real deal? perhaps we need to get back to the very foundation of the art of DJ'ing and play authentic set's from first generation original authentic 45's then there would be no argument regarding the authentisity of the records at least.

Like I say myself and many other DJ's choose to do it via the original only route but believe me over the years I've seen first hand many DJ boxes with shall we say a real hotch-potch content in terms of 100% authenticity of original records, again from my own personal perspective alongside a good few other DJ's can challenge anyone to find anththing less than original 45's in my DJ boxes, could this be said of everyone out there DJ'ing? I think not. but is it really important? yes to me it is but from the top of this reply it's how I choose to conduct myself and with the way I apply what I do then this commands, respect, reputation, entertainment value etc. as a rare soul DJ because deep down that's what we are dealing with here a rare soul scene, rare means hard to find, not often seen, hard to find etc. and there I will leave it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

that's what I just said.

Edited January 13, 2008 by PaulDonnelly

[Mark Bicknell]

that's what I just said.

I know....lol old farts think alike.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Zed1]

All doom and gloom on here ain't it? both venues and DJ's being constantly slagged off at the drop of a hat, quite frankly and I'm serious when I say this it matters very little to me how x,y, z DJ's present themselves all I bother about is how I set my stall out, authentic and real simple as that, there are so many negatives going off with this scene it's getting to the stage that I'm sure many of us don't really give a flying fig anymore regarding this petty simply not important stuff, far too much negative opinion for my liking and it's driving a massive wedge into the very heart of this scene and it's not a pretty site, how come I'm made to feel like I really can't be bothered with it anymore on a full on basis? why? I'll tell you why it's because of this 'I know better than you attitude' far too much debate and little else is said or done to actually improve things, simply don't book the pretender DJ's or if you do then don't moan or complain when it goes tit's up like this example, also why is it that the negative threads get loads of hits and comments, replies etc. yet the real deal interesting factual threads on artists, records etc. sometimes are hardly viewed? perhaps having a pop and a dig gives more satisfaction to some than actually making a constructive contribution to something that people can actually benifit from, do something about to change and improve things, no far easier to have a go! the amount of people who no longer come onto forums like this is pretty big and I'm sure because of this constant barrage of the same old arguments and debates, it's boring people big time!

Sure debate is important but so is a resolution and suggestions to correct and improve the scene in general, I'm sure the DJ in question here feels pretty shitty because of the comments here and her only intention was to entertain for an hour, however standing up behind a set of decks on a stage seems to be open season if you can't present the real deal? perhaps we need to get back to the very foundation of the art of DJ'ing and play authentic set's from first generation original authentic 45's then there would be no argument regarding the authentisity of the records at least.

Like I say myself and many other DJ's choose to do it via the original only route but believe me over the years I've seen first hand many DJ boxes with shall we say a real hotch-potch content in terms of 100% authenticity of original records, again from my own personal perspective alongside a good few other DJ's can challenge anyone to find anththing less than original 45's in my DJ boxes, could this be said of everyone out there DJ'ing? I think not. but is it really important? yes to me it is but from the top of this reply it's how I choose to conduct myself and with the way I apply what I do then this commands, respect, reputation, entertainment value etc. as a rare soul DJ because deep down that's what we are dealing with here a rare soul scene, rare means hard to find, not often seen, hard to find etc. and there I will leave it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I would be very careful if I were you Mark posting stuff like that!........ it makes complete sense!!..

[Mark Bicknell]

I would be very careful if I were you Mark posting stuff like that!........ it makes complete sense!!..

Not my best on Sunday morning...lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Jellybean]

I'm sure the DJ in question here feels pretty shitty because of the comments here and her only intention was to entertain for an hour

Tell ya what its just aswell she ain,t seen this as she has,nt got access to a pc ....JB

[Epic]

How would the scene cope with a policy adopted back in the days of Wigan & Mecca.

Once a record was booted or re-issued it was no longer played at major venues - this was of course before "oldies nights" at Wigan.

[Harry Crosby]

All doom and gloom on here ain't it? both venues and DJ's being constantly slagged off at the drop of a hat, quite frankly and I'm serious when I say this it matters very little to me how x,y, z DJ's present themselves all I bother about is how I set my stall out, authentic and real simple as that, there are so many negatives going off with this scene it's getting to the stage that I'm sure many of us don't really give a flying fig anymore regarding this petty simply not important stuff, far too much negative opinion for my liking and it's driving a massive wedge into the very heart of this scene and it's not a pretty site, how come I'm made to feel like I really can't be bothered with it anymore on a full on basis? why? I'll tell you why it's because of this 'I know better than you attitude' far too much debate and little else is said or done to actually improve things, simply don't book the pretender DJ's or if you do then don't moan or complain when it goes tit's up like this example, also why is it that the negative threads get loads of hits and comments, replies etc. yet the real deal interesting factual threads on artists, records etc. sometimes are hardly viewed? perhaps having a pop and a dig gives more satisfaction to some than actually making a constructive contribution to something that people can actually benifit from, do something about to change and improve things, no far easier to have a go! the amount of people who no longer come onto forums like this is pretty big and I'm sure because of this constant barrage of the same old arguments and debates, it's boring people big time!

Sure debate is important but so is a resolution and suggestions to correct and improve the scene in general, I'm sure the DJ in question here feels pretty shitty because of the comments here and her only intention was to entertain for an hour, however standing up behind a set of decks on a stage seems to be open season if you can't present the real deal? perhaps we need to get back to the very foundation of the art of DJ'ing and play authentic set's from first generation original authentic 45's then there would be no argument regarding the authentisity of the records at least.

Like I say myself and many other DJ's choose to do it via the original only route but believe me over the years I've seen first hand many DJ boxes with shall we say a real hotch-potch content in terms of 100% authenticity of original records, again from my own personal perspective alongside a good few other DJ's can challenge anyone to find anththing less than original 45's in my DJ boxes, could this be said of everyone out there DJ'ing? I think not. but is it really important? yes to me it is but from the top of this reply it's how I choose to conduct myself and with the way I apply what I do then this commands, respect, reputation, entertainment value etc. as a rare soul DJ because deep down that's what we are dealing with here a rare soul scene, rare means hard to find, not often seen, hard to find etc. and there I will leave it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

HOOOOOOOOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AT LAST AFTER 200 PLUS REPLIES THE VOICE OF REASON PUTS IT ALL TOGETHER IN ONE POST

[Jellybean]

How would the scene cope with a policy adopted back in the days of Wigan & Mecca.

Once a record was booted or re-issued it was no longer played at major venues - this was of course before "oldies nights" at Wigan.

Yeah but then they were,nt ridiculous prices were they!!?? JB

[Sharon Cooper]

sorry you took offence but what hell has it got to do with you?...... just asking

Nothing personally! OK Lets not hi jack the thread though A?

Lets take it to another one if you want. My point was in relation to the general sexist way the thread was going at the time.

[sister dawn]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Dawn as I would not have wanted to pour hot butter over my (original) copy of 'Nine Times out of Ten' now would I?....

........However!, Have you and your 'Norks' not got any Cleaning or Housework to be getting on with?.

And you be getting on with putting those shelves up!, then cleaning the car! and making sure that everything is as it should be in stereoypical surburbia. You would have probably thought your 9 times was an original hun, but it was more than likely a simon soussan production

[Guest Matt Male]

I agree Nick. I'm a punter as well not just a collector etc and I do care about what I go out to listen to. If a venue is going to take my hard earned money then they should at least have the decency to tell me that the guest DJ is going to play a set consisting of 90% boots. Like Dave said earlier it's the promoter's (not all of them btw) who don't care.

Don't waste your breath Chalky, we just get accused of 'bickering' 'complaining' and ruining people's good time eh?

I've also said on here as i'm sure others have that you don't need a big wad to play quality originals but i've just read two more posts since then going on about the cost of 'big money' original sounds. Is anyone actually reading the thread?

As i've said before I don't have a problem with venues that don't claim to be original vinyl only but it's a bit sad that some thesedays do feel the need to say that they are. I've seen ONO on flyers from time to time but unfortunately it probably doesn't get more people through the door.

As for the DJ mentioned earlier, nobody is trying to educate or make anyone feel ashamed that they play boots/reissues i hope, but on the positive side if a few more people take the boots and reissues out of their playboxes and try to put together an interesting set with what they have left then this debate will be worthwhile and for me the scene will have been improved. Then all the 'complaining' will have been worthwhile.