O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Steve G]

From the website "Don't Forget The Motor City".......

There's A Ghost In My House (Brian Holland-Lamont Dozier-Edward Holland Jr-R. Dean Taylor) publ. Jobete

R. Dean Taylor; rec 26-Oct-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier

30-Mar-67; 45 (M): V.I.P. 25042 A

Oct-68; LP (M): Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]

09-Jul-01; CD (S): Spectrum 544 515 2 Essential Collection [ UK ]

25-May-07; CD (M): Hip O Select B0008993-02 The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 7 1967

Released on a 1968 UK Motown LP I wonder why did it take until 1970s to get "discovered" then

[Steve G]

OK chaps/chapettes got a question for you all...................I think this has been done before on SS before as a separate thread but is very relevant to this thread imho-

How would a jock playing 'The Belles - Let me do it - Soul Fox' be viewed in the OVO debate? Would it qualify as say, playing a Grapevine 2000 unreleased track or carving an unreleased CD track would be?

Think there was some discussion of whether it was them and I think Kent reissued it on CD by someone else? (sorry forgot the details!)

'If' Mr Soul Fox 'legally' released this via the guy who owned the Mirwood masters would the playing of this brilliant 60's Northern dancer be allowed on the pink Soul Fox label

Thoughts please?

Cheers

Steve

Wasn't Soul Fox a Soussan label.....?

[Steve G]

LOL, I hate to shoot you down Steve, but I've just realised that if there's any gaps in your knowledge then they're from this era which, as you quite rightly point out, was when you were a nipper. So since this is probably one of the few times I'll be able to contradict your good self by saying that in actual fact, R. Dean Taylor WAS a household name in the U.K. by the early 70's as he'd already had two Top 20 UK hits by 1971:-

Ian D

Thanks, yes I do have these blind spots...I have the books at home but do most of this stuff not from home.

Another blind spot was an uptempo dance record called "Find em fool em forget em" played on Radio 1 when I was in the 3rd / 4th year at school.

[Sean Hampsey]

Thanks, yes I do have these blind spots...I have the books at home but do most of this stuff not from home.

Another blind spot was an uptempo dance record called "Find em fool em forget em" played on Radio 1 when I was in the 3rd / 4th year at school.

Either Dobie Gray or George Jackson, Steve... (Most probably Dobie's)

...but I guess you figured that out for yourself since leaving school

Edited September 24, 2008 by Sean Hampsey

[Ian Dewhirst]

Released on a 1968 UK Motown LP I wonder why did it take until 1970s to get "discovered" then

LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]?

It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info.....

Ian D

[Steve G]

Either Dobie Gray or George Jackson, Steve... (Most probably Dobie's)

...but I guess you figured that out for yourself since leaving school

Yes it was Dobie Gray, but it took me a long time to work out.

[Chalky]

LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]?

It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info.....

Ian D

one for sale here Ian

https://www.vinylnet.co.uk/details.asp/id/1...s-Volume-2.html

[Ian Dewhirst]

OK chaps/chapettes got a question for you all...................I think this has been done before on SS before as a separate thread but is very relevant to this thread imho-

How would a jock playing 'The Belles - Let me do it - Soul Fox' be viewed in the OVO debate? Would it qualify as say, playing a Grapevine 2000 unreleased track or carving an unreleased CD track would be?

Think there was some discussion of whether it was them and I think Kent reissued it on CD by someone else? (sorry forgot the details!)

'If' Mr Soul Fox 'legally' released this via the guy who owned the Mirwood masters would the playing of this brilliant 60's Northern dancer be allowed on the pink Soul Fox label

Thoughts please?

Cheers

Steve

Heaven forbid. The mind boggles LOL!

Very interesting question Steve.

Does the wily Soul Fox qualify on first release stuff? I don't know what else he did for the first time but I suspect there quite a few from the Mirwood vaults. "He's Alright With Me" - The Mirwood Strings would be another wouldn't it?

Ian D

[Steve G]

LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]?

It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info.....

Ian D

If you google it Ian there seem to be copies for sale

[Sean Hampsey]

Yes it was Dobie Gray, but it took me a long time to work out.

Great tune.

Due a revival I reckon!

[Ian Dewhirst]

one for sale here Ian

https://www.vinylnet.co.uk/details.asp/id/1...s-Volume-2.html

Still no track listing though. I'm sure the album exists but I'd be stunned if TAGIMH was on it and we all missed it. SOMEONE would have caught that track surely......?

Ian D

[Chalky]

scan of back and front

[Chalky]

Still no track listing though. I'm sure the album exists but I'd be stunned if TAGIMH was on it and we all missed it. SOMEONE would have caught that track surely......?

Ian D

lastly the tracklisting for you.....

11077. Motown Memories. Vol.2

=============================

01 - Barret Strong - Money (That's What I Want)

02 - Marvelettes - Beechwood 4-5789

03 - Shorty Long - Devil With The Blue Dress On

04 - Kim Weston - It Should Have Been Me

05 - Eddie Holland - Take A Chance On Me

06 - Barbara McNair - You're Gonna Love My Baby

07 - R Dean Taylor - There's A Ghost In My House

08 - Carolyn Crawford - My Smile Is Just A Frown (Turned Upside Down)

09 - Stevie Wonder - Fingertips

10 - Mary Wells - When I'm Gone

11 - Martha & Vandellas - Darling I Hum Our Song

12 - Miracles - I'll Try Something New

13 - Supremes - Standing At The Crossroads Of Love

14 - Choker Campbell - Come See About Me

15 - Brenda Holloway - I'll Always Love You

16 - Monitors - Greetings (This Is Uncle Sam)

[Sean Hampsey]

Still no track listing though. I'm sure the album exists but I'd be stunned if TAGIMH was on it and we all missed it. SOMEONE would have caught that track surely......?

Ian D

100% TAGIMH is on Motown Memories Vol ll

[Ian Dewhirst]

scan of back and front

Wow. I'm stunned. How about that. Never seen one of them in my life. It's not one of those Dutch-only Tamla Motown pressings or something is it? I would have thought that someone would have had that album between 1968-72 'cos it's packed with Northern and plenty of rare tracks. It certainly slipped through my net that's for sure. But EVERYONE'S net........?

It's not a wind-up is it?

Ian D

[Sean Hampsey]

100% TAGIMH is on Motown Memories Vol ll

As Chalky just said above!

Must get a faster PC & Connection!

[Ian Dewhirst]

100% TAGIMH is on Motown Memories Vol ll

Wow. How did we miss it then?

There's me thinking that we were actually quite good at Motown............

Ian D

[Chalky]

Wow. I'm stunned. How about that. Never seen one of them in my life. It's not one of those Dutch-only Tamla Motown pressings or something is it? I would have thought that someone would have had that album between 1968-72 'cos it's packed with Northern and plenty of rare tracks. It certainly slipped through my net that's for sure. But EVERYONE'S net........?

It's not a wind-up is it?

Ian D

Now would I wind you up Ian

No it's definitely not a wind up and definitely UK.

[TOAD]

Wow. I'm stunned. How about that. Never seen one of them in my life. It's not one of those Dutch-only Tamla Motown pressings or something is it? I would have thought that someone would have had that album between 1968-72 'cos it's packed with Northern and plenty of rare tracks. It certainly slipped through my net that's for sure. But EVERYONE'S net........?

It's not a wind-up is it?

Ian D

MR D IVE GOT THIS UK LP

[Ian Dewhirst]

Now would I wind you up Ian

No it's definitely not a wind up and definitely UK.

Wow.

What can I say guys? Apart from the fact that Motown LP's were a lot less collectible back then and maybe didn't get the same kind of scrutiny that they would these days.

But that's no excuse really. We were a bunch of twats who wouldn't know our R. Dean Taylor 1968 compilation album tracks from our elbows!

Ian D

[Jumpinjoan]

Aren't you lot supposed to have closed this thread at a 1,000 posts and started a new one?

[Reg]

Aren't you lot supposed to have closed this thread at a 1,000 posts and started a new one?

Pleeaaasseee (but without the new one )...only kidding guys!! Honest!

[Steve Plumb]

Heaven forbid. The mind boggles LOL!

Very interesting question Steve.

Does the wily Soul Fox qualify on first release stuff? I don't know what else he did for the first time but I suspect there quite a few from the Mirwood vaults. "He's Alright With Me" - The Mirwood Strings would be another wouldn't it?

Ian D

Hi Ian

yes, what i was getting at was that 'if' The Belles was 'legal' could it be played out?......and if so what OVO DJ would play a pink label Soul Fox 45 in his set

I think Ady/Kent got to the bottom of the legalities of this.........anyone find the original link?

Either way it's a fooking brilliant Northern dancer imho and one of the top bods could make it monstrous I reckon, cos at the time I don't think it went as big as it could have done (probably cos of the Soul Fox connection?) t'other side from Jackie Lee's a belter too!

Cheers

Steve

Edited September 24, 2008 by Steve Plumb

[scunnyjack]

LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]?

It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info.....

Ian D

I purchased this and Motown Memories vol 1 for about a quid each brand new from a shop in Scunthorpe about 1970.

I was always playing Ghost In My House and You're Gonna Love My Baby at our local youth club, but not on dance nights owing to more common Motown stuff being played.

Still got these LP's along with Breakout-Mitch Ryder,Rare Stamps-Barnes and Mancha and The Fabulous Impressions also purchased from there along with Uptight where the opening track Love A Go Go was very popular at that time and not on a single as far as I know but I am sure I could be corrected!

Steve

[Eddie Hubbard]

Wow. How did we miss it then?

There's me thinking that we were actually quite good at Motown............

Ian D

When I bought my copy of this album off Soul Sam a few years back , I was thinking exactly the same thing , why didn't anyone play " Ghost " from this album ? Best ,Eddie

[Marc Forrest]

Ah but there are different reasons for a company to reissue a 45. In some cases like say The Magic Touch, it's to satisfy demand, in others like the recent Millie Jacksons it's to make LP tracks available on 45 and in others like Luther Ingram or Danny Cobus it's to get a previously unissued track onto vinyl so DJs other than the ones who have had the exclusive acetates can play it out and popularise the music more, thereby upping demand for the recording and getting artists, writers (and us) more income. In the case of the 100 Club anniversary singles it is promotional for the forthcoming CD and a thank you and a memento for the customers who take the trouble to support our venue and label. Invariably the buzz from being on a collectible anniversary vinyl 45 improves sales in the long run on CD and sometimes reissued vinyl.

yes Ady, you are right about that. I agree.

marc

Edited September 24, 2008 by Marc Forrest

[Steve G]

OK Ian, something YOU have learnt today as well. Ha ha....

..................anyway back to OV etc - anyone else got anything to say on that subject? Or are we done?

[Pete S]

Don't know if anyone has said this but the version of Ghost In My House on the MFP album is totally different to the single - the single starts off with the guitar intro, the album track does not have the guitar intro and begins with the words "Theres a ghost in my house", totally different recording

[Sharon Cooper]

OK Ian, something YOU have learnt today as well. Ha ha....

..................anyway back to OV etc - anyone else got anything to say on that subject? Or are we done?

Yes I have and Iv'e not read all 54 pages so here goes. Do you mean OVO as the OVO on the LOCAL LABELS or OVO being the ones realeased by the larger companies that picked them up later? As I said haven't read all pages so if it's been said earlier then Yes we are all done.

Chris

Edited September 24, 2008 by bridget

[Steve G]

Yes I have and Iv'e not read all 54 pages so here goes. Do you mean OVO as the OVO on the LOCAL LABELS or OVO being the ones realeased by the larger companies that picked them up later?

Chris

Both. So I'd play the Ivorys on Wand rather than Despanzo, but both are fine in my book.

[Sean Hampsey]

Yes I have and Iv'e not read all 54 pages so here goes. Do you mean OVO as the OVO on the LOCAL LABELS or OVO being the ones realeased by the larger companies that picked them up later? As I said haven't read all pages so if it's been said earlier then Yes we are all done.

Chris

Good question.

We need a definition!

Does "Original Vinyl Only" mean..

1. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared' (Ann Sexton on Impel) (David Sea on Hy-Tide)

2. 'We also play records on vinyl as they may have appeared later... but they are legit' (Ann Sexton on 77) (David Sea on T-Jaye)

3. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared... in whatever country' (Baltimore & Ohio Marching Band "Condition Red" Oz Stateside)

4. 'We only play records on vinyl... and are quite prepared to play records that have never legitimately appeared on vinyl... as long as we play them on vinyl that we've had 'done' for us'

Sean

[Sean Hampsey]

5. 'We just don't like, or can't use CD's''

Sean

[Steve G]

Good question.

We need a definition!

Does "Original Vinyl Only" mean..

1. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared' (Ann Sexton on Impel) (David Sea on Hy-Tide)

2. 'We also play records on vinyl as they may have appeared later... but they are legit' (Ann Sexton on 77) (David Sea on T-Jaye)

3. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared... in whatever country' (Baltimore & Ohio Marching Band "Condition Red" Oz Stateside)

4. 'We only play records on vinyl... and are quite prepared to play records that have never legitimately appeared on vinyl... as long as we play them on vinyl that we've had 'done' for us'

Sean

These four all seem fair and would legitimately fall into the definition of OV.

Maybe with the benefit of 22 pages hbeinsight it would be a lot simpler if we just said venues / DJS that played bootlegs, but that doesn't sound as good as CR&P

[Sean Hampsey]

These four all seem fair and would legitimately fall into the definition of OV.

Maybe with the benefit of 22 pages hbeinsight it would be a lot simpler if we just said venues / DJS that played bootlegs, but that doesn't sound as good as CR&P

So, how's that list coming along?

Sean

[Steve G]

So, how's that list coming along?

Sean

I'll update it at some point, and then unless there are any other nuggets, move onto my next thread........DJs that only play OV

[Sharon Cooper]

Both. So I'd play the Ivorys on Wand rather than Despanzo, but both are fine in my book.

But isn't this thread about OV, and does the copy of the Ivory's on Wand constitute a re=issue. Seems to me you can't have it both ways, it's either the original or not.

[Steve G]

But isn't this thread about OV, and does the copy of the Ivory's on Wand constitute a re=issue. Seems to me you can't have it both ways, it's either the original or not.

No I think that's just too anal to be realistic. I mean there might have been 3 weeks difference between the local release and the national release. Either is fine for me. The national releases are bona fide originals in my book.

[Ian Dewhirst]

OK Ian, something YOU have learnt today as well. Ha ha....

..................anyway back to OV etc - anyone else got anything to say on that subject? Or are we done?

Yep. It never fails to amaze me this scene. You're never too old to learn....and never too young to fall in love.

I think I'm done now. Good thread!

Ian D

[Harrogatesoul]

Of course the wand 45 is an original. Just because it's on a local issue before being picked up for national distribution has nothing to do with originality - Its simple economics. 'Dave Despenza' didnt have the brass to distribute all over the country so hawk it to the nationals. The timelines on some would have been ver short in some cases I would have thought.

Rich

[Ian Dewhirst]

Don't know if anyone has said this but the version of Ghost In My House on the MFP album is totally different to the single - the single starts off with the guitar intro, the album track does not have the guitar intro and begins with the words "Theres a ghost in my house", totally different recording

Well something else I never knew. There's now 2 different recordings of TAGIMH then? How weird.....

Ian D

[Sharon Cooper]

Of course the wand 45 is an original. Just because it's on a local issue before being picked up for national distribution has nothing to do with originality - Its simple economics. 'Dave Despenza' didnt have the brass to distribute all over the country so hawk it to the nationals. The timelines on some would have been ver short in some cases I would have thought.

Rich

With respect that is what makes the whole of this thread pointless. the Wand issue is NOT the original. I wonder which one T. Brown has in his collection. Just because a company with clout picks up a tune does not make it the original. In my opinion this legitamizes the playing of re-issues as I suspect after looking at J.Manships 'Rarest of the Rare that many a treasured 'Original' is in fact a re-issue, but maybe just maybe we don't want to acknowledge that. Oh my I'm becoming an anorak.

Chris

Edited September 24, 2008 by bridget

[Steve G]

With respect that is what makes the whole of this thread pointless. the Wand issue is NOT the original. I wonder which one T. Brown has in his collection. Just because a company with clout picks up a tune does not make it the original. In my opinion this legitamizes the playing of re-issues as I suspect after looking at J.Manships 'Rarest of the Rare that many a treasured 'Original' is in fact a re-issue, but maybe just maybe we don't want to acknowledge that. Oh my I'm becoming an anorak.

Chris

The Wand issue is however original vinyl. Might not be the first issue but it's still original vinyl.

Might be easier if we called it "Authentic vinyl" and "Bootlegs"? Then we could have probably got a conclusion far quicker.

[Sean Hampsey]

I'll update it at some point, and then unless there are any other nuggets, move onto my next thread........DJs that only play OV

Hah!

That'll be pretty much the same list as I was thinking about doing...

'DJ's / Venues that are more interested in showing off Collectors pieces than in Music'

I'll give it a miss though if you're doing it!

Sean

[soulAdequateNP]

But isn't this thread about OV, and does the copy of the Ivory's on Wand constitute a re=issue. Seems to me you can't have it both ways, it's either the original or not.

No I think that's just too anal to be realistic. I mean there might have been 3 weeks difference between the local release and the national release. Either is fine for me. The national releases are bona fide originals in my book.

Hmm, perhaps in this case another term may be more appropriate...contemporaneous perhaps?

[Guest gordon russell]

Don't know if anyone has said this but the version of Ghost In My House on the MFP album is totally different to the single - the single starts off with the guitar intro, the album track does not have the guitar intro and begins with the words "Theres a ghost in my house", totally different recording

is it just as bad pete or worse or about the same level of crapness lol

[Sharon Cooper]

The Wand issue is however original vinyl. Might not be the first issue but it's still original vinyl.

Might be easier if we called it "Authentic vinyl" and "Bootlegs"? Then we could have probably got a conclusion far quicker.

So from now on I'll play whatever i want and when some clever clogs comes up and asks if it's on the OV I'll respond by asking him if he has a copy of the AV, if he/she say yes I will bow to their superior collection and give my spot over to then cause THEY ARE the real originals

[Steve G]

So from now on I'll play whatever i want and when some clever clogs comes up and asks if it's on the OV I'll respond by asking him if he has a copy of the AV, if he/she say yes I will bow to their superior collection and give my spot over to then cause THEY ARE the real originals

Straight question - do you play bootlegs?

[Sharon Cooper]

Straight question - do you play bootlegs?

If you want you can check Pilsley Lookback and see for yourself.

Edited September 24, 2008 by bridget

[Harrogatesoul]

With respect that is what makes the whole of this thread pointless. the Wand issue is NOT the original. I wonder which one T. Brown has in his collection. Just because a company with clout picks up a tune does not make it the original. In my opinion this legitamizes the playing of re-issues as I suspect after looking at J.Manships 'Rarest of the Rare that many a treasured 'Original' is in fact a re-issue, but maybe just maybe we don't want to acknowledge that. Oh my I'm becoming an anorak.

Chris

Calling the national copy a re-issue would imply the local copy is out of print which may or may not be the case. The important words here are local and national - And far from wanting to lambast or penalise 'Dave Despenza' for not having enough money or clout to promote and distribute his work across the united states makes the playing of both copies acceptable to the collector / dj IMO

I accept there are collectors out there who may agree with you - Someone recently mentioned they would prefer the west coast dist. version as opposed to the east coast which he considered not the first press. IMVHO that is utter sh**e - Economics / Promotion etc etc play a part in a records life and success/failure. Dont forget a lot of these local 45s labels had meagre budgets to start with.

Rich

[Steve G]

If you want you can check Pilsley Lookback and see for yourself.

Well you say you play OVO so not sure why you are kicking up dust on this. If you play OV do you want adding to the list?