Record Cleaning Problem

[paultp]

I wonder if anyone has come across this and could help me out?

I've got a record that looks really clean but has surface noise in a few places, there doesn't seem to be any reason for it looking at the record.

When I clean it (with record cleaner) there seems to be some sort of gunk coming out of the grooves but it just gets smeared about rather than cleaned. I've given it a go with soapy water after the record cleaner and this seems to help a bit. When I play it after cleaning it you can see the gunk collecting on the needle.

Some parts are clean and free from noise, other parts are not. Finally the noise seems to move each time I clean it so it must be the gunk moving around.

I'm a bit worried that the record cleaner might be damaging the record so I'm reluctant to keep cleaning it.

The other side seems to be fine.

Any ideas please?

(serious ones preferably )

Thanks

Edited September 24, 2012 by paultp

[Davenpete]

Petrol lighter fluid is what designers have always used for degreasing artwork/illustrations etc. Unlike TCE/Genclene (which is illegal now anyway) it doesn't affect the vinyl and is the best degreaser/gum glue solvent there is, also because of its low viscosity it gets right in the grooves - always used it on my vinyl and never had any issues (just splash it on them wipe into the grooves with kitchen towel - give it a second or two them wipe out with a clean piece of paper - may take a couple of goes), it's also the best thing there is for removing gum labels and any glue residue without damaging the paper surface or ink (unless you really scrub at it - which is unnecessary anyway).

Dx

[Gene-R]

Paul, I've come across that a lot with old records that look clean but sound noisy, and it's caused by crap stuck in the grooves. Hard to remove unless you use a mix of bleach and water (seriously, it works without causing ANY damage to the record - just avoid getting any of the solution on the label). Try it out on a junk record first if in doubt.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Gene-R

[Prophonics 2029]

Are you sure its not just a f@*k record the the smearing is only hiding the problems. Is it water based ? Or oil based WD40 might break it down for soap to remove the WD but you will still get the gunk on the needle, sounds like impacted dirt or a bad polished job Paul.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Prophonics 2029

[Gene-R]

I'm not keen on using any type of oil on records because of the residue / film it leaves on the surface. Unless there's a way of cleaning that off.

[Amsterdam Russ]

Giving it the PVA glue treatment will get all the crud out of the grooves.

[Dave Pinch]

is pva glue ok on the styrene 45`s

[Tony A]

is pva glue ok on the styrene 45`s

Yes Dave,

was a thread on here about it somehere.

[Mark W]

Never use nail polish remover!

Obvious I know, but I tried it once after a brainwave when I got in late from the boozer, to remove a spot of dirt from an otherwise mint record. Actually removed the grooves in the area it was applied.

Patti and the Emblems Congress demo doesn't play well now

[boba]

Just wanna say that all the suggestions in the thread are safe EXCEPT I would not use WD-40, it pretty much stays in the grooves forever and gives it a fake sheen. Also, it was a warning, but I would also emphasize not to use Acetone (nail polish remover).

[Jhsoulnotts]

Some PVA glues can stain the vinyl, be careful test it on a beater first

Better still use I.P.A. (not beer isopropyl) mixed with water 1 to 4 parts and a little spot of antibacterial soap, work it in with a clean toothbrush and dry with kitchen towel.

J

[Tiberius]

Goes without saying that any liquid, of whatever type used for cleaning, needs to be fully absorbed from the surface of the wax to remove as much of the dissolved crud as possible. I find a large micro fibre cloth does a great job. Mopping off the excess first then using a dry area of the cloth, or have a 2nd cloth handy, to gently finish dry the disc. Just a few gentle wipes is enough, not a polish.

Some of these cloths have a very deep pile but I can't say I've tried them to know if they're better/worse ie. leave fibres behind etc.

Also, I think there's a problem with some solutions evaporating too quickly so some of the muck just dries back in the grooves before it can be mopped up. I prefer to be able to absorb as much as poss otherwise dirt can end up on the stylus and can contaminate it and (worse case) subsequent records.

[boba]

I also 100% agree that you need to use a microfiber cloth. Anything else leaves gunk in the grooves which you will see on your stylus when playing back the record. I used to buy them at auto accessory stores but recently found that home depot (hardware store) has 24 packs for $10.

[paultp]

Many thanks for all the suggestions, I shall do a bit of shopping then have an experiment or two and let you know.

The record would be quite valuable so I'll try stuff out on the Olivia Newton John 45 that someone once used as a stiffener for the record they were posting to me. (Never worked out the logic in that). The PVA glue would be a last resort I think

Cheers

Paul

[paultp]

Are you sure its not just a f@*k record the the smearing is only hiding the problems. Is it water based ? Or oil based WD40 might break it down for soap to remove the WD but you will still get the gunk on the needle, sounds like impacted dirt or a bad polished job Paul.

Where I've cleaned the gunk out the record sounds clear, the other side is really clear. Where the gunk is still present the sound is either a bit dull or there is some noise.

I probably should have sent it back but its too late now.

Edited September 25, 2012 by paultp

[Mickjay33]

i use AMBERSIL ANTI-STATIC CLEANER WORKS BRILL ITS A FOAM IN A CAN. SPRAY ON RECORD LEAVE A FEW SECONDS WIPE OF WITH A SOFT CLOTH, THEN PLAY RECORD A COUPLE OF TIME AND WATCH THE CRAP COME OUT THE GROOVES ALSO BRINGS THE SHINE BACK TO VINLY IF RECORD IS REALLY BAD REPEAT

Edited September 25, 2012 by mickjay33

[Prophonics 2029]

I use a paint brush with a bit harder hair when washing, if you play the record wet this sludge can dry in the grooves.

Weird cause you can't see any of this but you know its there.

Its not an ABC related pressing is it like Big Top.

[Gene-R]

The record would be quite valuable so I'll try stuff out on the Olivia Newton John 45 that someone once used as a stiffener for the record they were posting to me. (Never worked out the logic in that).

Probably a metaphorical statement. When she was Sandy in Grease, she was a 'stiffener' to a lot of adolescent admirers!

Good luck with the cleaning Paul - hope you find the best solution for yourself out of all these.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Gene-R

[Soulman]

WD40 is not the way to go... it is oil based and will leave a residue. What you need is a plastic tolerant switch cleaner... meths, isopropyl alcohol or non reacting detergent based fluid.... BUT NOT WD40.

Steve

[soulsalmon]

i use AMBERSIL ANTI-STATIC CLEANER WORKS BRILL ITS A FOAM IN A CAN. SPRAY ON RECORD LEAVE A FEW SECONDS WIPE OF WITH A SOFT CLOTH, THEN PLAY RECORD A COUPLE OF TIME AND WATCH THE CRAP COME OUT THE GROOVES ALSO BRINGS THE SHINE BACK TO VINLY IF RECORD IS REALLY BAD REPEAT

I can also recommended this,but i run it into the grooves with an old badger shaving brush,the microfibre after,great results evertime

[Prophonics 2029]

WD40 is not the way to go... it is oil based and will leave a residue. What you need is a plastic tolerant switch cleaner... meths, isopropyl alcohol or non reacting detergent based fluid.... BUT NOT WD40.

You wash it off immediately after playing, its put on with water and a quick squirt. Only thing I have found to remove all that impacted dirt from 40 years of playing.

Steve

[boba]

if you don't want to risk it I can clean it for a fee. also can fix skips, clean up labels, etc. can fix deep scratches too but it takes an extremely long time.

[Guest]

I use a product called: LP AM Record Cleaner, and I have used it for many years. It's a spray and I guess it's pretty much like many other record cleaning products. But I have learned one important lesson over the years: USE ENOUGH CLEANING FLUID. I used to only use a couple of sprays because it is written on the product that a few sprays will be enough. The problem is, however, that a few sprays only remove the most supercial dust and dirt. It might look clean, but there can still be dirt in the grooves. At some point, I found out that if you spray enough record cleaner into the grooves, then you can remove the dirt that is really deep in them. The grooves are not supposed only to be wet; They are supposed to be nearly soaked if you want to remove dirt deep in the grooves. It's just important to be careful with the label of course. I have had records in my collection that looked clean, but sounded really bad, and I thought that there was nothing I could do. Anyways, when I really became aware how important it is to use enough record cleaner (or whatever product you use), then I improved the sound for several records in my collection.

[paultp]

I use a product called: LP AM Record Cleaner, and I have used it for many years. It's a spray and I guess it's pretty much like many other record cleaning products. But I have learned one important lesson over the years: USE ENOUGH CLEANING FLUID. I used to only use a couple of sprays because it is written on the product that a few sprays will be enough. The problem is, however, that a few sprays only remove the most supercial dust and dirt. It might look clean, but there can still be dirt in the grooves. At some point, I found out that if you spray enough record cleaner into the grooves, then you can remove the dirt that is really deep in them. The grooves are not supposed only to be wet; They are supposed to be nearly soaked if you want to remove dirt deep in the grooves. It's just important to be careful with the label of course. I have had records in my collection that looked clean, but sounded really bad, and I thought that there was nothing I could do. Anyways, when I really became aware how important it is to use enough record cleaner (or whatever product you use), then I improved the sound for several records in my collection.

Mmmm interesting ... I'm using a proper record cleaner and I did wonder if I wasn't putting enough on, might give that another go.

I've sent of for some Ambersil as that looks like it might be the thing.

More later .........

[Guest]

And I should mention that in addition to the LP AM Record Cleaner, I use a record cleaning cloth. You shouldn't use a tea towel or anything like that. The record cleaning cloth has a much finer texture which I think it much better for getting the dirt out. Here is a link where you can check out the cleaning product as well as the cloth:

https://www.kosmic.com.au/dj/dj-accessories/am-record-cleaner-plus-cloth-1/

Alternatively, you could also stop by an optician. I think the clothes for cleaning glasses are similar.

But again, the lesson for me was to use enough of the cleaning product (or whatever you use). Many people may not use enough because they are afraid that the label will get wet. I normally use an extra cloth to protect the label. I have upgraded VG/VG+ sounding records to M- sounding with a proper cleaning.

[John Reed]

I'll try stuff out on the Olivia Newton John 45

Surely not iof its Xanadu, cos that ones a keeper.........

[Guest 1969reggae]

i play mine on a dansette (heavy arm !) to clear gunk it even clears some jumps ! then water / fairy bath with paint brush ,dry with microfibre cloth and then lighter fluid and felt cleaner always works and i buy some dirty stuff......

[boba]

And I should mention that in addition to the LP AM Record Cleaner, I use a record cleaning cloth. You shouldn't use a tea towel or anything like that. The record cleaning cloth has a much finer texture which I think it much better for getting the dirt out. Here is a link where you can check out the cleaning product as well as the cloth:

https://www.kosmic.co...r-plus-cloth-1/

Honestly after trying tons of different things, a microfiber cloth will work better than that "record cleaning cloth" and is more guaranteed to be lint free. You should buy some and do some comparisons. Post back if you disagree after comparing. It's not like they hired some special designers for that cloth, they just wanted a soft cloth so as not to scuff the record (and it doesn't even say that it's lint free).

[boba]

i play mine on a dansette (heavy arm !) to clear gunk it even clears some jumps ! then water / fairy bath with paint brush ,dry with microfibre cloth and then lighter fluid and felt cleaner always works and i buy some dirty stuff......

if you collect reggae it's all vinyl, right? People should take caution with a heavy tonearm approach if cleaning styrene records so as not to cause burn.

Why don't you clean it first and then play it through on the heavy turntable? That way you are not pushing around / embedding / scratching the vinyl with the dirt. You could even do one quick clean after that to get any gunk that was dug up at the end.

[Guest 1969reggae]

will try that next time defo boba thanks for the advice

[Guest]

Honestly after trying tons of different things, a microfiber cloth will work better than that "record cleaning cloth" and is more guaranteed to be lint free. You should buy some and do some comparisons. Post back if you disagree after comparing. It's not like they hired some special designers for that cloth, they just wanted a soft cloth so as not to scuff the record (and it doesn't even say that it's lint free).

I will try that. The record cloth has worked fine for me, but I am always looking for better solutions.

[Northern Soul Uk]

As always tipped 'Isopropenol'. It's what printing companies use to get ink off the plates, and is non destructive to records, but get's grime, greasy marks (fingerprints) and dirt off really well, even takes permanent marker pen off non smudgable surfaces.

I used it for years when I had my record shops and it brings them up like new.

[boba]

I will try that. The record cloth has worked fine for me, but I am always looking for better solutions.

please report back, I'm interested to know if the cloth you have really does work better. If you're looking for something to get more in the grooves though, the microfiber cloth definitely will do that better, it has tufts that work their way into things, and the tufts don't come apart (e.g. it's lint free). They also suck up liquid via capillary action.

[Guest Jay Jones]

don't use wd 40 it will attract more dust and crap and then keep it there. warm soapy water and a brush, or lighter fluid if it's well ground in, lighter fluid will evaporate as you wipe it back off. those alchohol free wipes for flat screen tv's and monitors are ok too for getting a clean smear free finish back, they don't get crap out of the grooves though.

[paultp]

Hi,

Ambersil arrived this morning and a couple of cleans has seen off the gunk so thanks to those that recommended this. Noise gone and sound much clearer.

I got a couple of microfibre cloths from Halfords which worked fin but on first spin after cleaning there were some fibres picked up by the needle.

I actually think my previous record cleaner is to blame, I cleaned another record that was a bit grimy and the smae sort of thing happened. Bought the stuff off eBay and never had a problem before though. Maybe it has "gone off"?

Loving the ambersil though!

Cheers

Paul

[Kevinkent]

Hi,

Ambersil arrived this morning and a couple of cleans has seen off the gunk so thanks to those that recommended this. Noise gone and sound much clearer.

I got a couple of microfibre cloths from Halfords which worked fin but on first spin after cleaning there were some fibres picked up by the needle.

I actually think my previous record cleaner is to blame, I cleaned another record that was a bit grimy and the smae sort of thing happened. Bought the stuff off eBay and never had a problem before though. Maybe it has "gone off"?

Loving the ambersil though!

Cheers

Paul

That's great news Paul.

Nice to hear that some are using Ambersil and that it worked for you as I've suggested this a few times over the years on here.

It's what the top-notch CSI guys use for cleaning up their equipment so as not to contaminate further crime scenes. Lots of similar products were tested and Ambersil came out a clear winner.

All of my vinyl gets the Ambersil treatment before It's first spin.

I used to get mine from work and I'm running low - does anyone know where you can pick this stuff up retail?

- Kev

[boba]

I've never seen fibers on the needle using a microfiber cloth. I have seen it for almost every other cloth or towel (the absolute worst is cotton, do NOT ever use cotton or a cotton swab to clean the record). Maybe it was from a previous cloth? what do your microfiber cloths look like? obviously if they are coming off onto the record they aren't lint-free and probably should be avoided.

[Hold Tight]

That's great news Paul.

Nice to hear that some are using Ambersil and that it worked for you as I've suggested this a few times over the years on here.

It's what the top-notch CSI guys use for cleaning up their equipment so as not to contaminate further crime scenes. Lots of similar products were tested and Ambersil came out a clear winner.

All of my vinyl gets the Ambersil treatment before It's first spin.

I used to get mine from work and I'm running low - does anyone know where you can pick this stuff up retail?

- Kev

Hi Kev,

hope you and Pam are both keeping well.

Try here,

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/precision-eem-cleaning-fluids/4821249/

Mark

[paultp]

I got mine off ebay: [click here]

[boba]

one point -- the ambersil foam and other degreasers are petroleum-based. so whatever cloths you use to wipe off the fluid have been used with petroleum products. you're not supposed to wash those cloths and dry them in a heated dryer because they've become flammable.

[Kevinkent]

Thanks guys. Was hoping to find a chain that stocked it to negate yet another "To large for letterbox" from the postie.

How do Mark. Must catch up at Solid Hit sometime soon.

- Kev.

[Prophonics 2029]

It sounds like some body lotion, hand cream or something to put on your nails. Lol

[Donkit]

I've used Maplins anti static foam cleaner for years and got good results

https://www.maplin.co...m-cleanser-4151

https://www.maplin.co.uk/foam-cleanser-25343

Don

Edited October 5, 2012 by donkit

[Mrtag]

You can buy it from any branch of CPC a lot cheaper than Ebay about £4.79 last lot I got but dont forget VAT!!

[soulsalmon]

I've used Maplins anti static foam cleaner for years and got good results

https://www.maplin.co...m-cleanser-4151

https://www.maplin.co...-cleanser-25343

Don

Maplins is exactly the same,re branded

[boba]

most foaming cleaners have 2-Butoxyethanol listed as the main cleaning ingredient. i looked at that ambersil and it was different, i wonder if it works better / worse than other foaming cleaners.

[Guest]

Does anyone know if isopropyl based foam is safe to use on styrene 45's?

[boba]

Does anyone know if isopropyl based foam is safe to use on styrene 45's?

Isopropyl alcohol is definitely safe on styrene, most record cleaners are based on it (and I've cleaned tons of styrene 45s with it). Don't know what else is in the foam and if that's safe though. I have lots of garbage records to test on / ruin before I do stuff to the real things.

[Guest]

Isopropyl alcohol is definitely safe on styrene, most record cleaners are based on it (and I've cleaned tons of styrene 45s with it). Don't know what else is in the foam and if that's safe though. I have lots of garbage records to test on / ruin before I do stuff to the real things.

Thanks for the information.