Its well known and established that Northern Soul was the phrase coined for the style of music featured in the clubs based in the North of England (feel free to elaborate) and became used across the country.

 

What do the two terms

 

• Northern Soul      and
• Rare Soul

mean to you today ?

 

Are they one and the same or something very different ?

 

 

"Rare soul" is not any kind of genre or description of how music sounds.

 

It's a description of whether a soul record is rare or not.

Rare soul, is the term used to mean "not an oldies night"

same thing mate, they are all old soul records one way or another..

Rare, as opposed to Medium or Over Played.

I couldnt fit Northern Soul on the flyscreen on my scooter. So Rare Soul was used instead. It seemed to do the trick for me anyway

I think 'Rare Soul' has too many issues in terms of the fact that much of what I'd consider 'Rare Soul' actually isn't rare.

 

Of course 'Northern Soul' also has its limitations and preconceptions about what it should sound like amongst many.

 

Dx

Its well known and established that Northern Soul was the phrase coined for the style of music featured in the clubs based in the North of England (feel free to elaborate) and became used across the country.

 

What do the two terms

 

• Northern Soul      and
• Rare Soul

mean to you today ?

 

Are they one and the same or something very different ?

 

In the immortal words of Dave Godin, "We're gonna need a bigger shop."  Or was that Roy Scheider?

Here we go again....

 

Much Northern is very rare and very much battered to death...

 

I think getting up this morning was a bad idea....

 

One mans oldie can be another mans new rare soul  tune  

 

Sad to see that Billy Smarts as come along and turned much of what we love into a circus... Now we have to look for different terms....

Here we go again....

 

Much Northern is very rare and very much battered to death...

 

I think getting up this morning was a bad idea....

 

One mans oldie can be another mans new rare soul  tune  

 

Sad to see that Billy Smarts as come along and turned much of what we love into a circus... Now we have to look for different terms....

I 'Liked' your statement Steve, even though I have no idea what your talking about..

 

I'm off to bed...

Ah just what we need, another debate  For what its worth Rare Soul to me means exactly what Searling described, rare in quality not just quantity, although it just so happens that many of the greats are rare. 

I think underplayed overplayed rare northern soul with gospel funk tinged overtones and out on the fours back beat with homage to the RnB roots and modern production is the way forward.

Its all about quality.

Pigeon holes are for pigeons.

I think underplayed overplayed rare northern soul with gospel funk tinged overtones and out on the fours back beat with homage to the RnB roots and modern production is the way forward.

Its all about quality.

Pigeon holes are for pigeons.

But you use a pigeon hole for other things   ..

 

oops sorry.. Back on topic.....

That was meant to be our secret bitch...  

 

But you use a pigeon hole for other things   ..

 

oops sorry.. Back on topic.....

 

• Northern Soul     
• Rare Soul

mean to you today ?

 

 

 

Today? Same as always and this is very simple both a type of scene, both a type of music.

Rare soul, is the term used to mean "not an oldies night"

 

Yes but much of what is played at an "oldies" night is/are rare soul! 

 

Wasn't it Rare Soul before Northern Soul?  I would prefer Rare Soul rather than Northern Soul.  Either way both are simply a name for this scene.

Is less about the actual words used, more about what those words actually represent.

Is less about the actual words used, more about what those words actually represent.

Well said Schofield and quite deep for you of a Monday morning 

Rare Soul and forgotten Northern....as I knew it in the 90's.....run monthly....with a different crowd turning up to our Soul Night!!!....

 

 

...the only consistent monthly Soul Night running in East Anglia for 5 years....as a 'Northern Soul' night....

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and a Northern Soul....A/Nighter....

 

 

 

 

Rare Soul fans came to the All Nighter....but not to the Soul Night!! Northern fans went to the Soul Night and All Nighter...but not to the rare soul nights! My All Nighter lot.....din't give a to** and we had a good time wherever....!!x I was at all.....sigh.......dunno owt else!!!x

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I couldnt fit Northern Soul on the flyscreen on my scooter. So Rare Soul was used instead. It seemed to do the trick for me anyway

 

I used to like those big googly eyes with lashes !!! (But 'Rare Soul' is good too !!!)

Rare Soul and forgotten Northern....as I knew it in the 90's.....run monthly....with a different crowd turning up to our Soul Night!!!....

 

Rare Soul fans came to the All Nighter....but not to the Soul Night!! Northern fans went to the Soul Night and All Nighter...but not to the rare soul nights! My All Nighter lot.....din't give a to** and we had a good time wherever....!!x I was at all.....sigh.......dunno owt else!!!x

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Are you sayingif you only did nighters you were into Rare Soul?  If you did both you were into Northern Soul?   When nighters started at midnight or after the pubs shut I and all my mates always went to a soul night.  First or the services or a pub if travelling.  Mind you we wouldn't have gone to a warm in Cambridge for a nighter in London

I suppose everyone's got their own definition. Here's mine:

 

Obviously lots of northern soul played at oldies nights is rare, as in not widely available. But for me 'rare soul' has always meant rarely played, as in not overplayed or obvious. So at a rare soul night I might also expect to hear £10 records which are rarely played because they are neglected alongside the big money nighter sounds which are also rarely played because they are truly rare.

 

I suppose the real use of 'rare soul' has been by promoters to disuade people expecting oldies from turning up at venues and then moaning all night that no 'northern' is being played.

 

It's all northern soul to me, but unfortunately for the majority of others the funkier and gospel sounds, even RnB, isn't what they want at a 'northern soul' night. So we have to call it something else.

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by Matt Male

IT'S ALL SOUL TO ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

same thing mate, they are all old soul records one way or another..

To me they are the same, when I was jumping on a train, car, rickshaw to go to Palais, Stafford, Shotts, 100 club, Parr Hall, Clifton Hall etc I was always going to a Northern soul allnighter, rare soul never crossed my mind.

When I was dancing to say Johnny Rogers, Charles mintz, beloyd, Mac Staten, sir Mack Rice, Topics, Darrow Fletcher, Universals earnest sparks, syl Johnson, Parliments, Mello souls etc etc etc I was dancing to Northern not rare soul.

I think we are a little too relaxed at letting the term Northern soul go to a bunch who have no right to it - the nostalgia scene - a scene that has rejected Northern souls values big time choosing to concentrate on a small number of Northern oldies and reliving over and over again a small few years of a scene spanning decades. That under no circumstances is Northern soul.

It pains me to think those punters and promoters who had a few decades off the scene as at that time it wasn't for them just get to rock up with small minded values and can just claim Northern Soul as their own and we just let them have it.

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by Byrney

I prefer Soul and R&B,feel a bit of a berk telling folk I'm into Northern Soul these days 

 

Bazza 

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by Bazza

Are you sayingif you only did nighters you were into Rare Soul?  If you did both you were into Northern Soul?   When nighters started at midnight or after the pubs shut I and all my mates always went to a soul night.  First or the services or a pub if travelling.  Mind you we wouldn't have gone to a warm in Cambridge for a nighter in London

 

...me Chalky??...I did anything and will...no 'attitude' here mate!!x Musics music init....either sh*te..or it ain';t! Promoters...are 'on it'...or ain't!x But I find there is a time and a place for every tune i've ever heard!!!x

 

What I discovered 'punters' doing was...in general...'Rare Soulies' that incorporated 'deep soul' too at the time...from my genreisation...were up for the A/Ns....like the 100 Club and the like...but not my 'classic' Northern Soul Night at the City Stop...but rammed the 'rare' nights at The Argyle!! But 'classic' Soul Night folk...would go to our 'general' All Nighter at St Ives...'oldies/classics' job....but wouldn't go to the 'rare' nights...or the 100 club!!! ...with me so far...?!hehe!x

 

Now...what I did is....coincide my Classic Soul Night in Cambridge...with the 100 Club A/N....and fill me bus with 'Rare' Soulies...who came to the S/N...erm...just to get on the bus...init. I also filled the spare seats with 'Classic' Soulies who had got over excited and didn't want the night to end....so kidnapped em to the 100 Club!!!

I drove...folk got pi**ed up not off...no attitude....and ALL were satisfied......'sharp' eh?!x Those who'd have moaned about owt...I left at Cambridge.....or in London.....no bother! Never had to leave 1....X Believe it or not Chalky....folk came to Cambridge to go to the 100Club...or Blackburn A/Niters....from Boston/Kings Lynn/Naarwich/Southend/Colchester/London and Peterborough to mention a few 'regulars!!! 17 seater 'sold oput' EVERY WEEK....for 8/9 years mate!!! No saddo zone....can't have it!!!!!!x

 

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...truckin'........we wos!!!x No time for analysing it back then......honest!!x "Mind you we wouldn't have gone to a warm in Cambridge for a nighter in London  :lol:"...I believe Chalky.... you;d have been happy with the nights trip mate.,...'hard core' only....!x

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Fook me Sooty, can't you give a simple answer to a simple question.? once I've deciphered your posts it would appear none of us have done it properly except the sold out mini bus.

You are talking bollox to say a Rare Soulie only went to allnighters and not soul nights.

As I said before the licensing laws changed we all went to the local soul night...local as in the same town or city or with in striking distance of the nighter. If it was 100 Club it was often the last services on the M1 where we all met up, Scratchwood as it was then. And believe me I've done some night trips in me time, as have many many more, hardcore as you call it......we weren't snoring on the way home either

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by chalky

Never mind the bollox.

 

 

Peter

 

Eddie parker - I'm gone

Damon fox - packin up

Celebrities - I choose you

Nabay - believe it or not

William Powell - heartache souvenirs

And on and on and it would go . . . These are all OLDIES nothing more but on todays scene they are as rare as hens teeth yet only (I would say ) only two would or should be played on an advertised rare soul nighter.

Go figure. . . . But one thing for sure, its all northern soul to my ears.

Dazz

Confused ;)

Eddie parker - I'm gone

Damon fox - packin up

Celebrities - I choose you

Nabay - believe it or not

William Powell - heartache souvenirs

And on and on and it would go . . . These are all OLDIES nothing more but on todays scene they are as rare as hens teeth yet only (I would say ) only two would or should be played on an advertised rare soul nighter.

Go figure. . . . But one thing for sure, its all northern soul to my ears.

Dazz

You could mix every one of these in a set at a real Northern or as some would call a rare soul allnighter. It's just of matter of when you play them in the context of a set of wider lesser played records. Butch playing The Belles Don't Pretend springs to mind.

I think we are a little too relaxed at letting the term Northern soul go to a bunch who have no right to it - the nostalgia scene - a scene that has rejected Northern souls values big time choosing to concentrate on a small number of Northern oldies and reliving over and over again a small few years of a scene spanning decades. That under no circumstances is Northern soul.

It pains me to think those punters and promoters who had a few decades off the scene as at that time it wasn't for them just get to rock up with small minded values and can just claim Northern Soul as their own and we just let them have it.

 

Agree 100% but we're hopelessly outnumbered Captain. It's a battle we lost a long time ago. 

For me, there are either Soul records I like or Soul records I don't.  Some are rare most are not.   'Northern Soul' and 'Rare Soul' mean nothing to me as neither are factors in the creative process of producing this wonderful music. 

For me, there are either Soul records I like or Soul records I don't.  Some are rare most are not.   'Northern Soul' and 'Rare Soul' mean nothing to me as neither are factors in the creative process of producing this wonderful music. 

That sums it up exactly for me aswell Mike, carries on really from discussions yesterday at Doncaster

 

Kev

Some of my mates say that Northern Soul is for those that want to Dance and Rare Soul is that shit I like ......

I prefer to say I like rare black American soul music as the tag northern soul is getting a tad embarrassing with the stereotyping that's following it about nowadays.

Agree 100% but we're hopelessly outnumbered Captain. It's a battle we lost a long time ago.

To apply an old terrace maxim: STTAAAANNNNNDDDD!

For me, there are either Soul records I like or Soul records I don't.  Some are rare most are not.   'Northern Soul' and 'Rare Soul' mean nothing to me as neither are factors in the creative process of producing this wonderful music.

I would agree with you Mike but what we hear when we are out is not necessarily what we would listen to at home and not all of it is soul music. I don't use either term at home but socially you can't really get away from them and a scene has to have a name. Like you say though it is either good or bad, rare or otherwise.

Fook me Sooty, can't you give a simple answer to a simple question.? once I've deciphered your posts it would appear none of us have done it properly except the sold out mini bus.

You are talking bollox to say a Rare Soulie only went to allnighters and not soul nights.

As I said before the licensing laws changed we all went to the local soul night...local as in the same town or city or with in striking distance of the nighter. If it was 100 Club it was often the last services on the M1 where we all met up, Scratchwood as it was then. And believe me I've done some night trips in me time, as have many many more, hardcore as you call it......we weren't snoring on the way home either

 

..hehe!!x Right...I can say for definite that when this new surge of folk came thru East Anglia 93+...they wanted their classic oldies. I couldn't sell them the idea of the 'Rare' night.....or 100 Club....for aaaages...a year or so. Those who were dedicated to this 'new wave' of soul...which hadn't appeared at Wigan or owt....then that contingency FORCED me in essence to put on a seperate 'rare' doo just for them...and the DJ's came...they danced to it all...and were happy! They came to the Soul Night 11-12pm for the mini bus to the 100club!!! It was a definite division for a while....newbies getting bedded in....old school wanting to move on...and me...in the middle....driving the mini bus....!!x I never went to kip either.....only 3 times down the M6 on way home from Keele/Blackburn but woke up when folk were screaming or trying to grab the wheel as we were veering off or summink....happy days! It's why I took a minibus...it made sure I got home safely....!x My shuttling folk to A/Nighters was 'revolutionary' as such as a standard service attached to me Soul Nights! Folk said they hadn't had that facility consistently as I provided it since the 70's....! It's all I can report or reflect on! But....my experience and approach/result as a promoter may be different to what was or had gone before. I do things different...or like too...and it worked! It had to be....most of the nights I went to A/N wise apart from the 100club and Keele back in 93...were dying or dead...and Soul nights were a handbag/classic affair really that i visited...on the whole.

 

That changed with education and excitement through the 90's...I saw it happen around the Nation as I travelled...talked with folk and recky'd the craic wherever I went.

Now...I see that tsunami of interest has gone back out to sea leaving the hard core flappin' on the beach for a while.....but a HUUUUGE wave has just washed over them all again......and folk flappin everywhere but resonating to different beats...! It'll settle....and all will be well...!!!hehe!!x Been there...done it!!x Get excited...I am...!x

See you at the 100Club Chalky for a belated Birthday hug!x Good to catch up too...I reckon....hard core u is....and i'm sorry i missed some of your trips back in the days....before mine!!x Respects mate...X

 

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Edited October 21, 201311 yr by SOOTY

Here is a rather charming picture of a donkey

Dunno about revolutionary your mini bus trips Sooty, we travelled to Scotland in Dean Anderson's in the 80's, down the 100 club with my mate driving smoking cigars that made everyone sick and I was putting mini buses to go more locally, Mansfield etc as two blokes I worked with had em and made some money on the side.

Deffo see you at the 100

Agree 100% but we're hopelessly outnumbered Captain. It's a battle we lost a long time ago. 

Then shore up the defences and dig in for an almighty conflagration unseen in this green and pleasant land since Mafeking Night (Richard Starkey voice)... 

I would agree with you Mike but what we hear when we are out is not necessarily what we would listen to at home and not all of it is soul music. I don't use either term at home but socially you can't really get away from them and a scene has to have a name. Like you say though it is either good or bad, rare or otherwise.

 

The Spanish Inquisition has deftly stepped into the room.

 

I think getting up this morning was a bad idea....

 

 

You can say that again......It certainly was for me........I suffer from what is termed 'Dry Eye', and I can't open my eyes in the mornings without putting drops in......I also now only smoke one of those vapour electric cigarettes, which you fill with a 'very' similar bottle to the eye drops.....the most noticeable difference being the picture of a dead fish on the side, with the words 'very toxic'........Yup, you guessed it, I reached past my alarm clock and gently squeezed the 'juice' into both of my eye ducts, and  'waited' for it to 'work it's usual magic' - AAARRRRRRGHHHHHH! I can't tell you how much it f*ckin' hurt! I very nearly went to A and E - You should have seen how red my eyes were! Ouch.......

 

.......Sorry, what are we talking about?

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by LEN

I would agree with you Mike but what we hear when we are out is not necessarily what we would listen to at home and not all of it is soul music. I don't use either term at home but socially you can't really get away from them and a scene has to have a name. Like you say though it is either good or bad, rare or otherwise.

I can see that but I make a point of only going to venues that play music I would be happy to listen to at home.  Sunday I was at the 'Horse & Groom' - last weekend Bilbao, next Saturday 'Just Soul' plus Soul Essence once a year.    I don't think it needs a name, I just know - because of the people who run it and attend - that I will enjoy it and they will play music I love.  The venues I have listed cannot be pigeon holed as 'Northern', 'Rare' (heaven forbid!), 'Crossover', 70's or whatever - they are simply 'Quality Soul'. 

Dunno about revolutionary your mini bus trips Sooty, we travelled to Scotland in Dean Anderson's in the 80's, down the 100 club with my mate driving smoking cigars that made everyone sick and I was putting mini buses to go more locally, Mansfield etc as two blokes I worked with had em and made some money on the side.

Deffo see you at the 100

 

....jeeez....u were lucky....Dean wouldn't rent me a Mini--bus in the 90's....I tried....I did...went all the way to his office iin Lincoln  to beg....!!!hehe!!x We wos the ruff end obviously....and we lived in a matchbox in the middle of t'road and the only time we had lights on was when cars drove over the top of us.....!!!....but we loved our Northern AND Rare....especially Deans........!x

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northern soul is a term forced upon a rare soul scene

northern soul is a term forced upon a rare soul scene

I don't think it is, in its formative years the records played on the scene were more obscure but not rare in the sense they are now.  Don't forget Godin coined the phrase 'Northern Soul' to describe the type of record 'Northerners' were buying in his shop as opposed to the emerging 'Funk' sound.  It was never of an exclusively rare scene.

 

Mike

I don't think it is, in its formative years the records played on the scene were more obscure but not rare in the sense they are now.  Don't forget Godin coined the phrase 'Northern Soul' to describe the type of record 'Northerners' were buying in his shop as opposed to the emerging 'Funk' sound.  It was never of an exclusively rare scene.

 

Mike

Dave Godin coined the phrase, out of a mix of varied words aimed a an audience of soul buyers in england who read blues and soul. whoever coined the phrase did so out of ignorance. dave godin was a very seldom seen visitor to the rare soul scene as i know it. his input being purely coincidental

Here is a rather charming picture of a donkey Donkey_(Equus_asinus)__Apr_8_2012,_Germany.jpg

 

Blimey, I'd've said that was an ass....

Are you sayingif you only did nighters you were into Rare Soul?  If you did both you were into Northern Soul?   When nighters started at midnight or after the pubs shut I and all my mates always went to a soul night.  First or the services or a pub if travelling.  Mind you we wouldn't have gone to a warm in Cambridge for a nighter in London

So are you implying that those of us who went to the Casino and other All nighters were only into Rare Soul, Whilst those who went to the Mecca and other nights were only into Northern soul? What if you went to only All dayers? And is there any Rare Northern Soul ?!!!!!!

Hmm the mind boggles !!

You can say that again......It certainly was for me........I suffer from what is termed 'Dry Eye', and I can't open my eyes in the mornings without putting drops in......I also now only smoke one of those vapour electric cigarettes, which you fill with a 'very' similar bottle to the eye drops.....the most noticeable difference being the picture of a dead fish on the side, with the words 'very toxic'........Yup, you guessed it, I reached past my alarm clock and gently squeezed the 'juice' into both of my eye ducts, and  'waited' for it to 'work it's usual magic' - AAARRRRRRGHHHHHH! I can't tell you how much it f*ckin' hurt! I very nearly went to A and E - You should have seen how red my eyes were! Ouch.......

 

.......Sorry, what are we talking about?

 

All the best,

 

Len  

I am on those e fags now Len,sorry about the eye but that is a classic,sort of thing I usually end up doing!Surprisinly good hit of those e cigs,I havent ventured into the world of fruit flavours etc but so far have stayed with wizard weed baccy flavour.Oh oh,drifted off topic yet again ,sorry moderaters!

Edited October 21, 201311 yr by manusf3a