i was just driving around lucerne with my bike and thinking about if also sweet and deep Soul tunes are getting covered up? Or is it only a DJ's Thing?

Also do Rock'n'Roll DJ's cover up their 45s??

 

It was a Jamaican Sound System thing originally I believe.

That is correct Dave. The practice dates back to the 1950s, Jamaican DJs were scratcing out titles and artists names on 78 rpm records and in some cases giving them cover up titles so as to keep the tunes exclusive to their sound system.

When you had exclusive's it would ensue people would go to your dance hence sound clash

You have to be smart on the Northern scene covering tunes up, theres always someone smarter revealing the true identity, i'd be hopeless at it

You have to be smart on the Northern scene covering tunes up, theres always someone smarter revealing the true identity, i'd be hopeless at it

haha...me too...id be covering up something that everybody has known for years!

From Johnny Spencer's site...

 

"Willis Jackson and his Orchestra recorded Later For Gator New York, July 3, 1951, with: John H. Russell, trumpet; Walter "Phatz" Morris, trombone; Willis Jackson, tenor saxophone; Otis Sutton, baritone ssxaphone; Jimmy Evans, piano; Leonard Swain, bass; Emmanuel Simms, drums. Later For Gator was a popular dance tune in Jamaica during the mid 1950s where it was (is) commonly  known as 'Coxsone Hop', and, as such, is a record central to the history of Jamaican popular music from the second half of the twentieth century. The record 'Coxsone Hop' has reached mythic proportions in the activities, events and social narratives of Jamaican popular culture; the story has been well told of how Sound System operator Clement 'Coxsone' Dodd was able to keep secret the identity of this popular R&B instrumental with which his Sound System was identified, and how after several years of searching for its true identity his arch rival Duke Reid finally tracked it down and played it unannounced at a Sound System clash with Dodd. And how upon hearing his prized 'exclusive', known only as Coxsone Hop, Dodd was said to have passed out in shock!"

Tab Smith"my mother's eyes" was duke reids signature tune.

HBoogaloo, on 02 Apr 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

i was just driving around lucerne with my bike and thinking about if also sweet and deep Soul tunes are getting covered up? Or is it only a DJ's Thing?

Also do Rock'n'Roll DJ's cover up their 45s??

Push bike or motor bike?

 

 

Peter

Ok thx, but what about sweet and deep soul?? Does someone cover up these 45s?

Push bike or motor bike?

 

 

Peter

 

I think the lad means the bike was strapped to the back of his car

You have to be smart on the Northern scene covering tunes up, theres always someone smarter revealing the true identity, i'd be hopeless at it

Ain,t that right.........remember the two Karl H    covered up..that everyone knew,but didn,t.....if you get what l mean

i was just driving around lucerne with my bike and thinking about if also sweet and deep Soul tunes are getting covered up? Or is it only a DJ's Thing?

Also do Rock'n'Roll DJ's cover up their 45s??

 

Belgian Popcorn tunes still get covered up, including a female vocal of Sam Fletchers - Think it over.

nobody in sweet soul physically covers up 45s but some people play stupid ego games with their youtube clips and won't label them. everyone knows what they are within a week though but i guess you have to be part of the circle of people in the know. they eventually all get bootlegged onto CD comps so everyone and their mother knows soon enough. i've never heard of anyone inventing new cover up names either, but someone recently did a bootleg 45 of an unreleased record that was probably by the attractions and gave it a stupid name like "terrence bacon and the hotcakes", i guess in order to distance themselves from the real owners of the recording. that's what happened with the "toby bullard" 45 too.

now that i think about it, there was a cut bootlegged with a fake name, it was a cover of the fuzz "I love you for all seasons" bootlegged with the artist name "the phuzzy iv" or something stupid like that. it was off of the east of the underground LP. the bootlegger probably didn't even own the record.

Belgian Popcorn tunes still get covered up, including a female vocal of Sam Fletchers - Think it over.

really? Do you know where I might be able to hear that?

really? Do you know where I might be able to hear that?

 

In Belgium...............

Don't remember anybody on the House scene ever covering records, you could get the names of things quite easily back then, back then being 88 through 93/4.

 

But I think that was part of the House / rave scene, it was open to anybody and everybody. The Northern scene although attended by thousands upon thousands has and always will have a core which is very selective about who comes in.. Ive never ever liked that aspect of the Northern Soul Scene and Ive never felt as welcome in the way I did on the House scene. But Northern Soul Music is utterly brilliant and I love it to death...

 

But Dj's and covering records....   get over yourselves..

 

Malcolm

nobody in sweet soul physically covers up 45s but some people play stupid ego games with their youtube clips and won't label them. everyone knows what they are within a week though but i guess you have to be part of the circle of people in the know. they eventually all get bootlegged onto CD comps so everyone and their mother knows soon enough. i've never heard of anyone inventing new cover up names either, but someone recently did a bootleg 45 of an unreleased record that was probably by the attractions and gave it a stupid name like "terrence bacon and the hotcakes", i guess in order to distance themselves from the real owners of the recording. that's what happened with the "toby bullard" 45 too.

 

Thats brilliant, can I use it Bob?

Remember someone covering up an r&b record as Fray Bentos & The Pies.

Belgian Popcorn tunes still get covered up, including a female vocal of Sam Fletchers - Think it over.

 

Heard this at the Utrecht record fair a couple of years back courtesy of someone on a stall from the UK. Said they had an acetate of it and would get a handful of copies pressed @ £30 a piece for the next fair. Save one for me, said I. Will do, says he.

 

I turned up next time, money in hand, but the guy wasn't there, although the stall was. The guy who owned the stall said that his mate (the one with the acetate) was prone to a bit of BS. So, did he own it or not? I've no idea!

Edited April 3, 201411 yr by Russell Gilbert

really? Do you know where I might be able to hear that?

 

I bet it's just had the pitch tweaked to make it sound female

I bet it's just had the pitch tweaked to make it sound female

 

 

Exactly the same backing track as far as I could tell, and at the same tempo as Sam Fletcher, and there was nothing odd about the female vocals whatsoever.

And before someone asks, it wasn't this one either...

 

Thats brilliant, can I use it Bob?

 

unfortunately i wasn't making that up, that's actually the name they used. the label name is "big breakfast". i tried to find a scan online, will dig out and scan my copy when i get a chance.

Don't remember anybody on the House scene ever covering records, you could get the names of things quite easily back then, back then being 88 through 93/4.

 

But I think that was part of the House / rave scene, it was open to anybody and everybody. The Northern scene although attended by thousands upon thousands has and always will have a core which is very selective about who comes in.. Ive never ever liked that aspect of the Northern Soul Scene and Ive never felt as welcome in the way I did on the House scene. But Northern Soul Music is utterly brilliant and I love it to death...

 

But Dj's and covering records....   get over yourselves..

 

Malcolm

I believe that rare disco dj's use the heavy weights that cover the labels, known as 'knowledge protectors' to keep the identity of tunes secret.

I believe that rare disco dj's use the heavy weights that cover the labels, known as 'knowledge protectors' to keep the identity of tunes secret.

 

Yeah those big heavy stabilizer pucks. Seen a couple people using them, seems a bit silly. 

The Jamaican origin suggested by Dave makes sense, especially as it was a big part of the early Hip Hop scene (featuring Kool Herc / Bambaataa / Grandmaster Flash), with DJs seeking to hide the origin of the 'breaks' that were particularly popular with the crowd. This can also be seen in the mis-naming of particular records and the early popularity of the collected 'breaks' albums - with particular records being known by their 'break' name (for example 'Take Me To The Mardi Gras' by Bob James).

 

For those that suggest it has not permeated other, later scenes, I would suggest that the 'white label' often provided a good cover for a number of reasons, and not just for the ego of the DJ playing that particular record.

 

Rob Alias

 

The Beats & Pieces Show

Starpoint Radio 

Ok thx, but what about sweet and deep soul?? Does someone cover up these 45s?

You can find plenty of deep soul/ballad 45s here in Holland with the artists/song title erased or covered by marker pen so I guess the Surinamer/Dutch deep soul scene covered up stuff back in the 70s.

 

Cheers Paul

Des Parker once 'revealed' one of his cover-ups to be 'Hugh Janus', by scribbling it down on a scrap of paper after much persuasion from a certain lady.

The unsuspecting recipient was so thrilled to acquire this nugget of information she had to read it out aloud before realising what he had written....

Edited April 8, 201411 yr by Mace

 so the said dj  covers up a piece of work by somebody  else to make the sound exclusive to him , advertises it as another artist with a different title  , and this is accepted as morally ok !!!!!! the strange world of n soul lol ........

Nothing to do with northern soul, as stated above!

Exactly the same backing track as far as I could tell, and at the same tempo as Sam Fletcher, and there was nothing odd about the female vocals whatsoever.

It sounds like its been made recently to me ?

so the said dj  covers up a piece of work by somebody  else to make the sound exclusive to him , advertises it as another artist with a different title  , and this is accepted as morally ok !!!!!! the strange world of n soul lol ........

You could argue that without that dj in cases of rare records, the track wouldn't be heard or known at all, so in fact the dj is doing more for the original artist - by at least bringing to the attention of people the music - than everyone else, who are completely ignorant of the work.

is it more morally acceptable to not look for rare records than to look for them and then cover them up?

 so the said dj  covers up a piece of work by somebody  else to make the sound exclusive to him , advertises it as another artist with a different title  , and this is accepted as morally ok !!!!!! the strange world of n soul lol ........

 

Hi Diddy.  This practice has been goin on for the last 100 years.... but you know that

It sounds like its been made recently to me ?

Yups that's always a possibility as is it being an actual female version. Sounded brilliant to me and I was hearing it loud, crisp and clear. 

You can find plenty of deep soul/ballad 45s here in Holland with the artists/song title erased or covered by marker pen so I guess the Surinamer/Dutch deep soul scene covered up stuff back in the 70s.

 

Cheers Paul

 

Just to add to Paul's comment...

 

Apparently, so I was told by someone behind the counter at Record Mania in Amsterdam, covering labels heavily in marker pen or writing your name on them was also about protecting your treasured 45s from being stolen by other DJs. Seems competition was absolutely cutthroat on the Dutch/Suriname soul scene back then!

Think how the top 50 DJ's in the country would.... if any of them happened to go to the States looking for new tunes

and un-earthed a total unknown gem, do you think they are going to tell the world what it is?

Come on, be honest, if you was amongst those 50 would you?

Long live the c/u.

Too much about DJ'S ego's and in denial of artist's deserved recognition/potential royalty payments.

 

 

But I think that was part of the House / rave scene, it was open to anybody and everybody. The Northern scene although attended by thousands upon thousands has and always will have a core which is very selective about who comes in.. Ive never ever liked that aspect of the Northern Soul Scene and Ive never felt as welcome in the way I did on the House scene. But Northern Soul Music is utterly brilliant and I love it to death...

 

 

 

Malcolm

Malcolm. The scene you describe has in my opinion long gone. Unfortunately. When I first started out on this voyage you had to prove yourself sort of thing with being able to dance, know what records where on what labels, your clothes, but most of all show respect to everybody, so you could earn it. Steve

Think how the top 50 DJ's in the country would.... if any of them happened to go to the States looking for new tunes

and un-earthed a total unknown gem, do you think they are going to tell the world what it is?

Come on, be honest, if you was amongst those 50 would you?

 

Long live the cover up, we all have a few, and it keeps it interesting  

Too much about DJ'S ego's and in denial of artist's deserved recognition/potential royalty payments.

 

A lot of the artists are no longer around though,more's the pity.In some cases royalty payments can't be made even if we wanted to.Covering up is about being exclusive for as long as you can.Nothing sinister.

Don't remember anybody on the House scene ever covering records, you could get the names of things quite easily back then, back then being 88 through 93/4.

 

But I think that was part of the House / rave scene, it was open to anybody and everybody. The Northern scene although attended by thousands upon thousands has and always will have a core which is very selective about who comes in.. Ive never ever liked that aspect of the Northern Soul Scene and Ive never felt as welcome in the way I did on the House scene. But Northern Soul Music is utterly brilliant and I love it to death...

 

But Dj's and covering records....   get over yourselves..

 

Malcolm

you dont need to cover up dubplates - that was the rave scene's (not really sure what you mean by that but certainly happened with uk house tunes and dnb tunes) version of it.

 

they came blank.

Too much about DJ'S ego's and in denial of artist's deserved recognition/potential royalty payments.

Not really, it generally only delays recognition for a while, except on the odd record that's so rare it stays covered up for years, in which case it's fate is still 1000 times better than if the dj hadn't found it and started playing it.

With regards royalties, well any record that's unknown is unlikely to be earning any royalties anyway, but the hype behind a good cover up is more likely to build up awareness, credibility and demand for a future release.

for obscure records - taste, credibility and demand follow the scenes. however much the re-issuers like to think that public taste is an independent thing, it's actually dripped down from tastemakers on hardcore scenes..

and it's not egoism to want to be good at something and one of the main ways to be good at djing is to have something the next man doesn't have.

in all forms of entertainment, novelty is a key element, unless you're churning out classics to the brain-dead.

Edited April 9, 201411 yr by pow wow mik

Too much about DJ'S ego's and in denial of artist's deserved recognition/potential royalty payments.

 

What a load of pretentious crap. The records are covered up to allow the Dj to build a following for the record and to create a buzz so that people will turn up to hear records that they can't hear anywhere else. The whole scene was built on rare records. It would have lasted about two years if all the records had been readily available. These records were made by people hoping to make it big, they failed and that is that. A few Dollars thirty or forty years later would hardly change the lives of the artists would it? 

Don't remember anybody on the House scene ever covering records, you could get the names of things quite easily back then, back then being 88 through 93/4.

 

But I think that was part of the House / rave scene, it was open to anybody and everybody. The Northern scene although attended by thousands upon thousands has and always will have a core which is very selective about who comes in.. Ive never ever liked that aspect of the Northern Soul Scene and Ive never felt as welcome in the way I did on the House scene. But Northern Soul Music is utterly brilliant and I love it to death...

 

But Dj's and covering records....   get over yourselves..

 

Malcolm

not sure I agree with how readily availble most of the top house sounds from the early days were. I'm still searching for some now! There loads of guys still going through parksy's and Sasha's tracklistings from old tapes, site devoted to it and real fanatics out there. From my recollection getting the best sounds on the early house/ underground rave scene was harder than northern, nobody announced the names of the records for a start! Standing for hours on end on saturday in Eastern block to hear what was played on the big system in the was one way, word of mouth another. Lots of imports were about for a week or two from the distributors to disappear if you missed them and hadnt the cash that week, otherwise you'd have to wait 20 years for discogs to be invented to get another chance. 

not sure I agree with how readily available most of the top house sounds from the early days were. I'm still searching for some now! There loads of guys still going through parksy's and Sasha's tracklistings from old tapes, site devoted to it and real fanatics out there. From my recollection getting the best sounds on the early house/ underground rave scene was harder than northern, nobody announced the names of the records for a start! Standing for hours on end on Saturday in Eastern block to hear what was played on the big system in the was one way, word of mouth another. Lots of imports were about for a week or two from the distributors to disappear if you missed them and hadn't the cash that week, otherwise you'd have to wait 20 years for discogs to be invented to get another chance. 

well I cant speak for yourself, but I just used to ask mate, and no doubt Like you,  I put the time in.. every spare moment for years looking.. I was lucky to have a large network of friends that shared titles, we even bought for each other if something looked good... that and mates that went to Greyhound Distribution pretty regularly...

 

I do remember allot of standing about, so nothings changed there then...

Edited April 9, 201411 yr by Mal C

well I cant speak for yourself, but I just used to ask mate, and no doubt Like you,  I put the time in.. every spare moment for years looking.. I was lucky to have a large network of friends that shared titles, we even bought for each other if something looked good... that and mates that went to Greyhound Distribution pretty regularly...

 

I do remember allot of standing about, so nothings changed there then...

I know what you mean about the atittude thing, house people are generally want to share the knowledge. I was thinking about going to legends in warrington at the start of 1990, the height of the madness you might say I asked two guys from Blackburn what the rarest tune was, the both said in unison, 'loverock'. Think I heard it for one of the first times at the end of the night. You might call it a house cover up, what they meant was what is now know as the 'source- You got the love'. John truelove issued in late 89 I think  on an ep with other early bootleg mash ups, just dj's putting acca's over known tracks. You just could'nt get hold of that tune at the time, it was selling for £100 i manchester In fact I once went into eastern block and they had, 'Frankie knuckles your  love' and the candi statton 12 with the accapella on it next to one and other on the shelf, with a sign saying 'do it yourself loverock' I've tried it its bleedin impossible!      

Blanks are Jamaican too

What a load of pretentious crap. The records are covered up to allow the Dj to build a following for the record and to create a buzz so that people will turn up to hear records that they can't hear anywhere else. The whole scene was built on rare records. It would have lasted about two years if all the records had been readily available. These records were made by people hoping to make it big, they failed and that is that. A few Dollars thirty or forty years later would hardly change the lives of the artists would it? 

not against covers , theyve been around since i began attending, its merely an observation , if you take frank wilson as an example ,covered as eddie foster , booted illegally on an imitation in label sold thousands then motown release it cos it was their own and sold thousands more,so in effect the cover helped with the bootleg and legal release