Are we really gonna let it die with us?

Hopefully this will be a light hearted thread, and an enjoyable read (I think we need one!) I’m wondering if there has been any change in peoples’ views…

A young lady that attends our local events was telling us that she asked for a request to be played at another event, and was flatly refused - She didn’t understand why.

This girl is in her twenties, she has numerous tracks on her phone that she absolutely loves, and she simply wants to go out and dance to them. When she’s getting ready to go out she says she googles ‘Northern Soul’, and the ones she likes she runs to see what they are - A passion but without the records…

Is it time for the Soul Scene to move with the times, completely bypassing the record bit, and letting the music rule on its’ own?

Would anyone be brave enough to put on a ‘Download All-nighter’?

Would you attend such an event?

I understand the ‘rules’, and personally I will continue to ‘do what I do’ because I am from that era, but don’t you think it would be great to hear of a hall packed with 20 year olds dancing hard at the latest ‘Download All-nighter’?

All the best,

Len 

Maybe not an all-nighter Len, that would be stretching it a little too far, but local nights or in pubs where a young crowd could ask for what they wanted to hear, within limits, might encourage them to reach further into the genre and once tired of the songs that they are comfortable dancing to now they might then get a better understanding of "the scene" and why some records might be an anathema to certain DJ's resulting in a flat refusal for a request.

Either that, or in a future world where virtual reality allows you to dance to your own private track in your own private Wigan Casino/ Torch/ Wheel/ surface of the moon environment, along with interactive sim soulies?  Take your pick

There's quite a few Download DJs who have jumped on the band wagon to supplement their wedding, christening and Barmitzvah work.  They've never owned the records, not even on CD.

no!

Otherwise known as Lap Top Larry Djs havent a fookin clue some of them 

I think its a very thought provoking question Len. My feeling is that current participants in whatever this thing is now cannot shape what happens next and maybe shouldn't try. Having said that I might change my mind next week. 

Edited January 26, 20169 yr by Duke

15 minutes ago, phil said:

Otherwise known as Lap Top Larry Djs havent a fookin clue some of them 

....Nor have some with records mate 

All the best,

Len 

There's plenty of young'uns on the scene buying records with a huge passion for the music. And yes originals :-)

No No No No !!!!

3 hours ago, Duke said:

I think its a very thought provoking question Len. My feeling is that current participants in whatever this thing is now cannot shape what happens next and maybe shouldn't try. Having said that I might change my mind next week. 

Oh it wouldn't be anything to do with us miserable lot - This would be their take on it.

Of course I know the record thing is a huge part of what we do - It's everything in fact, the hard work that can go into owning a record etc is the 'magic', but these kids on the whole can't relate to that, but they can enjoy the sounds.

I was in my office the other day, and I was playing 'Eric Mercury - Lonely Girl' on You Tube (Don't worry I closed the curtains first) As you know, a picture of the record pops up on the computer screen, I said to a young lad that works for me that I would love to own one, but it would cost me well over a grand, if not two....His reply......."Why? It's just there!"........as he pointed at the screen 

Len 

'Eric Mercury - Lonely Girl' 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 20169 yr by LEN

3 hours ago, IANCSLOFT said:

No No No No !!!!

!!!!

Edited January 26, 20169 yr by LEN

1 minute ago, LEN said:

Oh it wouldn't be anything to do with us miserable lot - This would be their take on it.

Of course I know the record thing is a huge part of what we do - It's everything in fact, the hard work that can go into owning a record etc is the 'magic', but these kids on the whole can't relate to that, but they can enjoy the sounds.

I was in my office the other day, and I was playing 'Eric Mercury - Lonely Girl' on You Tube (Don't worry I closed the curtains first) As you know, a picture of the record pops up on the computer screen, I said to a young lad that works for me that I would love to own one, but it would cost me well over a grand, if not two....His reply......."Why? It's just there!"........as he pointed at the screen 

Len 

'Eric Mercury - Lonely Girl' 

 

 

L

Its the general point of view from people who don't understand it. My colleagues at work who are much older than me don't understand. The average Joe wouldn't attend a northern soul night anyway unless they had an interest in it and the majority of people who are into it are fully aware its always been a vinyl scene

8 minutes ago, mtay9778 said:

There's plenty of young'uns on the scene buying records with a huge passion for the music. And yes originals :-)

I know there's some, but are there really plenty?

Great stuff if this is really the case 

Len 

NO NO A Thousand Times NO....................

 

DJ (A person who plays RECORDS And CDs of CD Only Tracks New release or Otherwise) Be it at a Northern Soul Or Modern Soul Event

 

 

2 minutes ago, mtay9778 said:

Its the general point of view from people who don't understand it. My colleagues at work who are much older than me don't understand. The average Joe wouldn't attend a northern soul night anyway unless they had an interest in it and the majority of people who are into it are fully aware its always been a vinyl scene

I don't dispute that mate - I'm talking when our families are wondering what to do with 'Dads' box of records' (In years to come)

Len  

2 minutes ago, RICK SCOTT said:

NO NO A Thousand Times NO....................

 

DJ (A person who plays RECORDS And CDs of CD Only Tracks New release or Otherwise) Be it at a Northern Soul Or Modern Soul Event

 

 

So just to concur - You're pretty adamant about that 

Len 

Ill gladly take them off their hands!

And yes, there's plenty of young'uns its just some get more spots than others

:-)

5 minutes ago, LEN said:

I don't dispute that mate - I'm talking when our families are wondering what to do with 'Dads' box of records' (In years to come)

Len  

So just to concur - You're pretty adamant about that 

Len 

Errrrrr yea i think that about sums it up

3 minutes ago, mtay9778 said:

Ill gladly take them off their hands!

And yes, there's plenty of young'uns its just some get more spots than others

:-)

Ok, it's just that some of my friends on the Scene still call me 'Young Lenny' / or 'Youngun' (for short).......I'm 45 and a half years old!!! 

Len 

Edited January 26, 20169 yr by LEN

records are a huge part of the scene and cutting your teeth learning the names and artist then labels and the difference between bootlegs/pressing.how many of us have been sat for hours taking about this record or have you heard this other 90%of us. part and parcel of the scene the amount of time in record bars at allnighters chatting about how originally discovered it or played it first. for me it part of the scene and its history that we pass on to others and long may it continue 

Have you ever watched one of these people DJ?????????

They go up to the equipment (Turn table, mixer etc.) 15 or 20 mins before the previous DJ has finished their set) Puts his playlist up on the lap top,

then stands there and pushes a button That's It!! oh and most don't know what a microphone is, probably think someone has left their mums Dildo on the

stage for a laugh..............Play It, Say It!

 

 

4 minutes ago, RICK SCOTT said:

Have you ever watched one of these people DJ?????????

They go up to the equipment (Turn table, mixer etc.) 15 or 20 mins before the previous DJ has finished their set) Puts his playlist up on the lap top,

then stands there and pushes a button That's It!! oh and most don't know what a microphone is, probably think someone has left their mums Dildo on the

stage for a laugh..............Play It, Say It!

 

 

Good point, but let's presume they have a 20 year old who understands D.Jing, maybe chooses to use the mike, and has that passion in what he is playing (but without actual records)

I hope this topic isn't making some of you out there feel ill 

Len 

Not at all Len, very interesting Topic as this is a subject close to my heart that my self and some of my fellow collector friends

have been discussing over a cup of Tea and a rather Big Record Box, (OV of course ) The Merrits of Playing stuff off Laptop,

Smart Phones And other Gadgets, Got Quite Heated at times as us old sods can't get to grips with it you know

It depends really  , If its a set played with thought and thinking of the tracks from someone who has taken the time to understand and has ripped the tunes from the original cds then i wouldnt complain as long as it wasnt an ovo night

If it was a johnny come lately with the top 500 bought from ebay for a tenner playing ruby andrews moses smith frank wilson etc then i wouldnt be interested.

 

6 minutes ago, RICK SCOTT said:

Not at all Len, very interesting Topic as this is a subject close to my heart that my self and some of my fellow collector friends

have been discussing over a cup of Tea and a rather Big Record Box, (OV of course ) The Merrits of Playing stuff off Laptop,

Smart Phones And other Gadgets, Got Quite Heated at times as us old sods can't get to grips with it you know

Maybe some peoples' views have changed since 'The great record crash of 2016' Or 'Black Tuesday' as some now call it  

Len 

16 minutes ago, davidwapples said:

It depends really  , If its a set played with thought and thinking of the tracks from someone who has taken the time to understand and has ripped the tunes from the original cds then i wouldnt complain as long as it wasnt an ovo night

If it was a johnny come lately with the top 500 bought from ebay for a tenner playing ruby andrews moses smith frank wilson etc then i wouldnt be interested.

 

If someone is 20 years old he would be a 'Johnny come lately' (But I do get your point).....I'm thinking of a young lad who has took the time to understand the scene and all its' history, has the passion, and is a really good D.J, but simply wants to have the luxury of being able to play absolutely anything to people of the like (who would feed off such a person), who dares to fly in the face of Northern Soul as we know it because he strongly believes that is the way to go now - Taking all the flack that would go with it, but with the confidence of knowing he is doing what he does for good reason 

Len 

Edited January 26, 20169 yr by LEN

2 hours ago, LEN said:

don’t you think it would be great to hear of a hall packed with 20 year olds dancing hard at the latest ‘Download All-nighter’?

Peter Pan Promoters perving at 20 year olds and making money out of it?

Surely not LEN, eh?

9 minutes ago, johnmcc said:

Peter Pan Promoters perving at 20 year olds and making money out of it?

Surely not LEN, eh?

I said hear of, not go and see........Mind you, I may get away with attending (just) 

Len 

Eddie Piller mentioned on his radio show last week that this gig he DJ'd at in Leeds on 16 January 2016 was sold out in advance - 350 people -  and he emphasised that the majority of the crowd were under 30 years of age.

What's the problem ?

Brudenell Soul Club

11 minutes ago, sunnysoul said:

Eddie Piller mentioned on his radio show last week that this gig he DJ'd at in Leeds on 16 January 2016 was sold out in advance - 350 people -  and he emphasised that the majority of the crowd were under 30 years of age.

What's the problem ?

Great stuff - There's no problem, just a light hearted discussion (Just like all the threads) 

All the best,

Len 

Edited January 26, 20169 yr by LEN

I know of one northern event in my neck of the woods that plays everything from computer and every event is a packer . don't know what the age ratio is of young/old  . can think of lots of pros and cons for both camps , and tend to be a bit more tolerant of this than I would say ten years ago. like Lens strapline says are we really gonna let this scene die with us . on the other hand went to the superb charity soul event at Harrogate and in the Northern room a little girl was  playing / selecting/announcing the records with her dad . and a mighty fine job she did. she will obviously grow up with that love of obscure vinyl soul records that we did in our day. my oldest lad was with me and he said how good it was to hear some of these fabulous records in their original format . and of course vinyl is big again in the record shops . times change . as a 51 year old it all started for me at the youth clubs . older lads would bring records in that their big brothers had got from the Casino/Mecca/ Torch /Wheel/ wherever . you'd hear these unbelievable tunes and want to collect them. that feeder system no longer exists . but of course the internet does. this music is too good to die [hopefully]

shorty

I think it's some of the old feckers that are ruining it, people in their 40s and 50s that don't have a clue. One local night simply says "vinyl only" and frowns at cds but surely some cds are legitimate unlike pressings? Not that I am condoning cds being played.

 

Mark C

Let's be careful of the OVO thing - It's more what would people think to a younger person doing it his way, basically ripping up the rule book 

Len 

Talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons Len !!! 

4 minutes ago, illusive said:

Talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons Len !!! 

7 hours ago, LEN said:

Are we really gonna let it die with us?

 

 

 

A young lady that attends our local events was telling us that she asked for a request to be played at another event, and was flatly refused - She didn’t understand why

 

All the best,

 

Len 

If younger people were made more welcome and not expected to have the same knowledge as those with 40yrs+ then I'm sure some would get to appreciate the record collecting/playing side.  (would also help to protect the values of those with collections !!)

I'm of the view that any exposure to classic soul music is a good thing in whatever format it is presented. 

It's the music that really matters to me. Vinyl will always be king and I appreciate that many think this is sacrosanct  but I don't see an issue with listening to music in a digital format. I'm sure we all have CD's or downloads that we enjoy, so the idea that a night out is somehow irretrievably compromised by not having actual records seems a bit odd to me.

Lets just enjoy the music we have and find ways to share it with as many people as possible.

 

Even though I'm in the ovo camp I think the music is much more important than our vinyl collections. I personally would love to see more nights that are youngster friendly and if that is on mp3 /cd then so be it. In fact if you think about it, it's a bit primitive to cart around a huge box of vinyl when you are only going to play 20 or so tracks.

I might add that I would not be seen dead in such a place but I'd love to see the youngsters getting into the music and then (just as we did) seek out new sounds outwith the top 2/3/5 or whatever hundred sounds through visiting the ovo events.

An added benefit of mp3 events (I'm thinking of THAT post from yesterday) would be that it would put the bootleggers out of business as the DJ's at these new events wouldn't need the vinyl.

 

 

 

Personally I hate digitised music, I do listen to Youtube when I am at my office after hours (like now) and I do have loads of music on my phone that I play in my car but when I get home at night I spin vinyl because it is the ONLY way to listen to good music.

Whatever scene, hobby or things that people take pleasure from be it football, music, cooking etc, they do it on varying levels. Some go all or nothing (like me, you and other OVO collectors), others dip their toe in and enjoy it for what it is (boots,downloads or the latest tesco top 100 northern soul CD etc.)

The Ironic thing here is that the scene will probably have to totally crash and burn for it to do full circle. I live in Peckham and the South London Soul Train is 10 mins from where I live. That happens every two weeks and has 600/700+, sometimes more, with the average age of 18-24. You can guarantee that 99% of people that attend couldn't care less what format the music is played from and I bet they love it!

4 hours ago, soultronic said:

I know of one northern event in my neck of the woods that plays everything from computer and every event is a packer . don't know what the age ratio is of young/old  . can think of lots of pros and cons for both camps , and tend to be a bit more tolerant of this than I would say ten years ago. like Lens strapline says are we really gonna let this scene die with us . on the other hand went to the superb charity soul event at Harrogate and in the Northern room a little girl was  playing / selecting/announcing the records with her dad . and a mighty fine job she did. she will obviously grow up with that love of obscure vinyl soul records that we did in our day. my oldest lad was with me and he said how good it was to hear some of these fabulous records in their original format . and of course vinyl is big again in the record shops . times change . as a 51 year old it all started for me at the youth clubs . older lads would bring records in that their big brothers had got from the Casino/Mecca/ Torch /Wheel/ wherever . you'd hear these unbelievable tunes and want to collect them. that feeder system no longer exists . but of course the internet does. this music is too good to die [hopefully]

shorty

is this the young lady you mention , her name is lily and that is not her dad , she is a wonderfull girl who dances with hermum and goes to quite a few venues

 

47 minutes ago, gointoagogo said:

Even though I'm in the ovo camp I think the music is much more important than our vinyl collections. I personally would love to see more nights that are youngster friendly and if that is on mp3 /cd then so be it. In fact if you think about it, it's a bit primitive to cart around a huge box of vinyl when you are only going to play 20 or so tracks.

I might add that I would not be seen dead in such a place but I'd love to see the youngsters getting into the music and then (just as we did) seek out new sounds outwith the top 2/3/5 or whatever hundred sounds through visiting the ovo events.

An added benefit of mp3 events (I'm thinking of THAT post from yesterday) would be that it would put the bootleggers out of business as the DJ's at these new events wouldn't need the vinyl.

 

 

 

I just love the highlighted line above  Great overall post - It shows how 'erked' (Not sure if that is actually a word) we are! I suppose it means some of us think..."Yeh, great if these younguns feel the same passion, but we don't wanna see it going on"....And I'm with you on the pain of it! 

Len 

Let whoever play whatever, youngsters are bound to veer towards the laptop type events.

Weird really when you think how skew whiff we look at things.  Pay hundreds & thousands of pounds on original vinyl (with no money going to artists/writers etc.,) and be held up as doing it the right way.  Go on Ace/Kent site and pay to download mp3 tracks (royalties paid) and get pilloried for using a laptop!  Go figure...

The King is Dead, Long Live the King! 

1 hour ago, barney said:

 

yes it was indeed Barney , sorry for putting two and two together and making five . what a top class pairing these two were and indeed a top class day

best wishes Shorty.

What i think is a good thing: is that people who are relatively new to the music young or old can search out tunes to there hearts content and download what they like quite cheaply or just listen. Their lack of knowledge is a good thing! they have no prejudice as to whether it is rare, was or is considered naff or not, or how much it is worth, quite simply their decision is based on personal taste, in short a great leveler for the merits of the recording. I personally would have more respect for someone who builds a collection of mp3/mp4 files downloaded legally than someone who is stupid and maybe vain enough to line the pockets of 'vinyl bootleggers' and it is cheaper, average bootleg £10 average download 0.99p  plus if licensing rights still apply however small it is the artist may end up with something instead of nothing.

I think the writing is on the wall i.m.o. with in demand vinyl getting rarer and more expensive and staying in peoples collections for posterity it can only go one way. Hail the download I say and give the music back to the people, it's probably not going to happen yet but believe me folks it is coming and good luck to whoever is brave enough to start the ball rolling.

It's a bit like the housing situation, a large majority of people over a certain age own their property, can afford to live in it and it is generally going up in value, if your just starting out as a younger person trying to buy, the drawbridge has been well and truly pulled up in most cases.

Incidentally I know the girl Len is on about. In her current top Northern Soul downloads on her i phone are Micky Lee Lane Hey Solenay, Cliff Nobles My Love is Getting Stronger, Bill Cosby Little Ole Man Uptight and Dave Charles I Ain't Gonna Cry No More.

Edited January 27, 20169 yr by Jem Britttin

What if these kids were encouraged to go out and find their own records? Not saying they'd find something completely unknown at this point, but they might find something a bit different that hasn't really had it's day. Would certainly be better than dancing to a copy of the Northern Soul OST.

Perhaps in the interest of keeping the scene going we could all leave our records to a young fan or DJ when we pass on to the great soul heaven ??

Actually my daughter loves it when i buy records she calls them her inheritance and has asked me to leave her the copy of Manship's guide she bought me for Christmas.

I have certainly had my monies worth out of the records i have bought over the years, but suppose when i retire they may come in handy as an investment.

Edited January 27, 20169 yr by smudger

I have only experienced a couple of these play off a laptop do's, and that was a few years ago. But the sound quality of both was excruciatingly bad. MP3 downloads might be OK to play at home or in the car, but put them through a big system and you soon discover their limitations.

The other thing that I can't "get" about the young people coming into "the music" is why they feel the need to wear the uniform of baggy trousers and flared skirts?

2 hours ago, smudger said:

Perhaps in the interest of keeping the scene going we could all leave our records to a young fan or DJ when we pass on to the great soul heaven ??

Actually my daughter loves it when i buy records she calls them her inheritance and has asked me to leave her the copy of Manship's guide she bought me for Christmas.

I have certainly had my monies worth out of the records i have bought over the years, but suppose when i retire they may come in handy as an investment.

Bloody hell Martin if you want your John's extensive collection of Spark demos just say so. 

17 hours ago, westender said:

I'm of the view that any exposure to classic soul music is a good thing in whatever format it is presented. 

It's the music that really matters to me. Vinyl will always be king and I appreciate that many think this is sacrosanct  but I don't see an issue with listening to music in a digital format. I'm sure we all have CD's or downloads that we enjoy, so the idea that a night out is somehow irretrievably compromised by not having actual records seems a bit odd to me.

Lets just enjoy the music we have and find ways to share it with as many people as possible.

 

I couldn't agree more.   It is ages since I went to a do , but my aim was always to hear current top tunes, hopefully with a number of new (whether brand new or old) tunes to my ears.  I can't say I started by thinking god I hope this is OV or I will leave this dance floor/club immediately! If anything I have always hated cover ups more than repros as at least they acknowledged the artist and allowed you to search for the holy grail rather than a falkse god!

It has always been about the music for me and ideally yes on brand new vinyl/CD so the artists gets their dues.

11 hours ago, YourArsenal said:

What if these kids were encouraged to go out and find their own records? Not saying they'd find something completely unknown at this point, but they might find something a bit different that hasn't really had it's day. Would certainly be better than dancing to a copy of the Northern Soul OST.

They could do that, but that would be limited in comparison to having literally everything to hand - This 20 year old with attitude (Maybe Keb Darges' grandson) would be able to play really varied sets in his goal to conquer the world! (Our world) 

Len 

3 hours ago, Quinvy said:

I have only experienced a couple of these play off a laptop do's, and that was a few years ago. But the sound quality of both was excruciatingly bad. MP3 downloads might be OK to play at home or in the car, but put them through a big system and you soon discover their limitations.

The other thing that I can't "get" about the young people coming into "the music" is why they feel the need to wear the uniform of baggy trousers and flared skirts?

I'm no expert on the sound quality point, so will take your word on that - That is an important point though (Maybe some would disagree if the right kit was used)

People are influenced by their peers, so I expect the young ones that choose to dress as they do are around older folk that do / or they went down the digital route to find things out, and that's what popped up - Their choice of course, but you don't need a uniform to be a soul fan.

Len 

Edited January 27, 20169 yr by LEN