purist

When I'm gone is a well known Motown tune that has always got people on the dance floor going back to the first decade of Northern Soul, but I have questions. It has two different numbers, 114312 and 118209, both pressed on a Tamla label as 54111. I've noticed lately that sellers are claiming both numbers to be the alternative mix, or the rarer take etc. What is the actual difference when you listen to the two, is there an obvious way to tell which version you are listening to ? Is it known which version got released in other countries? which mix came out on UK TMG ? Seems to be both different numbers can be found on the WDJ releases, do both numbers appear on the stock copies?

sent you a text

Not sure which year but on one trip to the US I stumbled across some info in a book shop that led to me sending for a copy of Reg Bartletts extremely heavy book - Motown master numbers, basically just a list of the numbers Motown used and not the goldmine of info that I had hoped (cost a fortune, for the book and even more for the postage ) In it were scans of many unusual acetates etc, including the Baby Have Mercy scan. I photocopied it for various friends to stick on their Advance 45's (they were obvious photocopies so nobody was trying to fool anyone) although I never did one for myself Having misplaced it for many years I recently found that book, seem to think it cost me £100ish back when that was more than it is today (think early 90's?)

My tip would be Searching for Sugarman. A fantastic and very moving story. (would you consider Car Wash ? Commitments ? People always used to mention something Wednesday, possibly Big Wednesday, but I've never seen it? Then there's Coast to Coast, with better casting it could have been another Blues Brothers)

On your point about thinking records that should be more then sell for less, and vice versa - I have worked out a perfect predicting analysis for all this pricing hoo-ha. Let's say you think a record should be 400. You see it for sale and it's either a)250 or b) 650. You puzzle, how can it be ? It's obvious really, it'll be a) if you own a copy, and b) if you don't and want to buy one Happens to me 100% of the time

Yes postal charges have gone up which has killed buying cheapies from the USA for me, but I think this thread has gone off track talking about whether a seller will declare a low value. That has not changed in recent times and the questioner asked what has happened recently to show the drop in prices achieved. Firstly we all agree that rarity doesn't drive prices, only demand does that, we've mostly all got very rare records that just dont sell because they are not in demand or are not well known. Again that hasn't changed recently. For a few years it seemed to me that some sellers assumed because a few in demand records had jumped up in price way beyond what we might have expected, that all records had jumped up 50%/100%/500% etc. To my mind if I think a record should be the same £60 it was a decade ago then I aint paying much over that amount, no matter who or how its offered for sale. So have some sellers got gold fever and have been asking too much and thats why they aint selling? Maybe not on the same scale but there's always been sellers who ask more for their records than the rest are selling that same record for, so again thats not a recent change. Surely of all the reasons, inflation hitting the average collector in the pocket, with household bills rising is the main one, its cutting into the amount of available spare cash we have to spend. Also, eBay had a good run for a long time as the best way to reach a worldwide audience, now FB, Source and all other internet avenues offer a better option for selling. When I look on eBay there's not much quality or in demand tackle that even has a sensible starting price beyond a handful of top sellers. If the goodies that are on there are few and far between it makes me stop looking. So, think back, there used to be a small number of mail order sellers on the scene, then a small number of reliable USA mail order heroes found by those big newspaper type publications, or going there in person, or record bars at venues or, if you were lucky, a local record shop that also sold soul. These days within 10 minutes of turning on my phone Ive already seen more records for sale than the best Niter ever. So too much choice from too many sellers, OTT prices, Inflation, and the final sad truth, every week we seem to hear of another collector passing away, so less buyers. One last thought. A while back I was at a well attended venue, maybe 300 in, I looked through a sales box and saw a record. I remembered it had been in this same box a year before, maybe two? It was priced at 400 I think. I said to the seller 'I don't think there's anybody else in here that has the slightest interest in that record other than me. I think in mint it'd be worth 250 to me so I'll give you 200 for it as it is' (it looked a vg with wol) He was aghast. He intimated that I was robbing him, but that was because he'd convinced himself it was now a £400 record, but if nobody wants to buy it at 400 EVER then it ain't a 400 record is it. To check I wasn't going daft when I was home I checked guides and sales etc. There wasn't a sale anywhere near his valuation, or even mine, and despite me seeing them on eBay etc in the previous 12 months, there wasn't a sale in the last couple of years, hence my thought that this record had had its day. It's not that I'm right and he was wrong. I just thought at the value he'd put on it, no one who'd been collecting for a while would agree with him. I'm happy to report despite not buying that copy or any other copy I am still alive and well, it didn't kill me not owning it, but sometimes sellers convince themselves we can't live without these plastic fantastic wonders, at any price

I met a lad in the later 80's/early 90's who showed us 3 Shrine 45's in Max's shop, can't remember which, but definitely all three were big guns. He told us he was only a stay home collector and that he'd bought them from Oldies in Telford many years before (Supposedly the guy who owned it told him that his Dad was based in Washington DC and occasionally arranged to get him batches of 45's sent over from a record outlet over there) This lad reckoned he'd paid a pound each and had bought them as unknown to him soul 45's that he just liked the sound of and had just heard that they were fetching money and he was thinking of selling them. Max and I would have bought them off him but he couldn't decide on a price. He said he'd come back the following week and tell us how much but we never saw him again. I think one of them was Stop Overlooking Me, which I was very keen on at that time. Always made me wonder what other gems might have emerged from Telford ?

No 7 inch 45 then ?

Owned this for maybe 40+ years, played it countless times as it's a major favourite of mine and until five minutes ago I had never noticed the the mistake and yes it took me a few minutes to spot it !

If You Can't Say Anything Nice RCA issue copy only Cash Waiting (but if it's any good to you I have a WDJ copy that plays well that I'd happily include in any deal)

Can I ask, which dj copy, the white label design or the multi coloured one ?

That stamp and the pad with it ended up in Max's shop, perhaps that's misleading, that stamp was in the shop for years including the time I worked in there (my memory is rubbish with dates these days) The sign was also there, and from time to time folk bought Max various bits of stuff and memorabilia liberated from the club. I'd ask Eddie Swoz if you want more info

Top soul lad, proper funny and great to spend time with, he'll be missed by many

It was always my understanding that Graham Warr brought back from the USA the first copy amongst a stellar hit that included many first copies of records that are today considered classic northern rarities (Dena Barnes, Duke Browner etc) Graham himself told me he was the first to play it at the Catacombs. There was always a crossing over of tunes between the Torch and the Catacombs, so presumably it would have gone to the Torch very soon after (Max told me he regularly traded with Keith and Colin, which led to the cross pollination and helped tunes to reach a wider audience)

Blue Max @ Catacombs, it would have been between 1971 and 1973. There's a lovely photo of Max and Steve Calloway with the record. They became instant friends after Steve came over, Max showed him the English way of life, taking him to cricket, fishing and for a curry etc. H. Chalky tells a great tale about when he first took SC into Max's record shop and introduced them to each other, along the lines of " this is the man who first played your record Steve" followed by "and this is the man that sings it Max". I hasten to add that despite Max persevering with it he eventually moved it on and the copy he had in the later years of his life was a different copy. HTH