Funky Soul, Funk edged Soul...however you wish to describe it. Good or bad?

Does it have a place at venues or is a lot of it a case of the Emperors New Clothes.

PS Do you ever sleep? :D

I have to be ready 24/7 for the upcoming revolution. Can't let the government catch me sleeping.

I was trying to make the point that, as an outsider, it seems like almost all of the types of funk / funky soul that people are playing now that people in this thread say they dislike have already established examples in the "canon" of NS. I'm not making any comment on anyone's tastes, just saying that it seems weird that people seem to be complaining about the style of music that is the same style as records they probably like or at least accept.

But Bob, if it was played at Wigan or any other ancient hallowed northern soul cathedral back in the 70's then it can't be funk. Frankie Crocker's 'Ton of Dynamite' would be northern and not funk, yet Willie and the Mighty Magnificents 'Funky 8 Corners pt2' would be funk shite!

Jordi

I have to be ready 24/7 for the upcoming revolution. Can't let the government catch me sleeping.

Ha Ha, reminds me of the guy off 'Wait till your father gets home' (was it Ralph?)

Jordi

I was trying to make the point that, as an outsider, it seems like almost all of the types of funk / funky soul that people are playing now that people in this thread say they dislike have already established examples in the "canon" of NS. I'm not making any comment on anyone's tastes, just saying that it seems weird that people seem to be complaining about the style of music that is the same style as records they probably like or at least accept.

You are trying to apply logic, reason and common sense. None of these apply in the world of NS!

Now get some shut eye, Saint Obama is looking over you!

But Bob, if it was played at Wigan or any other ancient hallowed northern soul cathedral back in the 70's then it can't be funk. Frankie Crocker's 'Ton of Dynamite' would be northern and not funk, yet Willie and the Mighty Magnificents 'Funky 8 Corners pt2' would be funk shite!

Jordi

Fair summary probably what I was saying above, not as clear though (as usual for me!)>

To be fair I am sure people thought of it that way then, it is just that the logic applied to what is, what is not, what might be, or what could be Funk now seems to be applied to any record that some people think is new and could be played! Which leads to the contradictions you highlight.

I present the Ann Peebles hip track as evidence!

Like every diet, everything in moderation , nothing to excess.

If it is good then it is good if it is bad then it shouldn't be played

I think funky soul sounds always had and will have their place on the northern soul scene. The trick for me is to mix it up with traditional northern, crossover, rnb and modern sounds. I am not a great fan of a pure 1 hour stompers or 1 hour funky soul set but to mix it up a little and build a set around the different styles makes me happy and gives the night a nice flow and break in between !!! But what gets a little on me nerves are the punters who passionately hate certain sounds and instead of just having a chat, a ciggie or one or two drinks and enjoying the night, they turn into miserable & abusive farts. Anyway, I love a few funky sounds being played and I think they certainly have their place but more traditional northern sounds should always be the main focus of the music policy!!! Sometimes a night drifts towards one or another direction (oldies obscure funky northern crossover rnb modern...) but as long the vibe carries it through nicely it's all good !!!

Ah well 3 tunes that flow my boat....

For what its worth, I'm not anti-any particular "sub-genre" as such, but as already stated, whole sets of blandness be it whatever "style" doesn't float my particular boat, and whilst we're on the subject of funk(ish) stuff, I've been bored stiff by a few one hour sessions of utter dirge at a couple of venues I like to attend.....if it is indeed deemed to be "new breed/the way forward"....then it ain't for me I'm afraid!

O.K as the question has been asked (chalky).........lets be having you all.........who's playing sets of this stuff?

Like every diet, everything in moderation , nothing to excess.

If it is good then it is good if it is bad then it shouldn't be played

Yep, I'd agree with that In the end it's the "public" that decide what or what isn't a Northern Sound...

Once sat through a set of so called R & B that had me wanting to slash me wrists...

A good 'un is a good'un, it don't matter to me what sub genre has been invented this week if I like it I like it simples...

F'instance I absolutely loathed "The Zoo" on first hearing, after 35 or more years it's started to grow on me .

Tony

Edited July 6, 201212 yr by tonyp

some of it is fabulous, some of it is awful.

You need DJs that can actually sort the wheat from the chaff. Sadly some of them can't.

And as per usual the silver fox that is Steve G (because none of us can spell his last name x) smacks the nail firmly on the head

O.K as the question has been asked (chalky).........lets be having you all.........who's playing sets of this stuff?

I'll happilly admit to playing it, there's lots of it i love and equally some stuff i think is out and out funk so don't like (each to their own). Don't play full sets though, but then again i'd never play a full set of just one genre/tempo anyway, that's dull!!

Tracks like John Harris, Waymond Hall, Charlene & Soul Serenaders, Grey Imprint etc, all great dancing records that have something about them and when you weave them in right go down very well even with the more discerning of punters.

Where do tunes like Harvey Averne - "Never learned to dance" fit in.Funk? Disco?..fills the floor still all over the country.....booted etc.....not NS but has the balls played off it at NS venues.....

Edited July 6, 201212 yr by KevH

And as per usual the silver fox that is Steve G (because none of us can spell his last name x) smacks the nail firmly on the head

Hi Neil, more like balding fox these days

Where do tunes like Harvey Averne - "Never learned to dance" fit in.

Oldie I'd say Kev.

Edited July 6, 201212 yr by Steve G

Hi Neil, more like balding fox these days

Oldie I'd say Kev.

But what genre of oldie ? Is it Northern?

But Bob, if it was played at Wigan or any other ancient hallowed northern soul cathedral back in the 70's then it can't be funk. Frankie Crocker's 'Ton of Dynamite' would be northern and not funk, yet Willie and the Mighty Magnificents 'Funky 8 Corners pt2' would be funk shite!

Jordi

THis is correct, except for the shite bit.

I'm not talking about any records really Greg, it's a topic that was being debated in another topic but the sort of records mentioned so far are nothing like what I mean by today's funky soul. Most of those mentioned are simply northern, have a northern feel and are not alien to the majority of dancers.

I'm talking about records like Clip Info: Sir Guy - I Need You, Gamith, King Roosevelt, William C Belton and John Harris and the Soul Sayers if that's the correct name off top of my head. Four of the above are from a Paul Sadot mix I put in refosoul for him.

Funk edged soul has been around for decades on the scene but te last few years there is more funk than soul in many of the tracks championed under the name funk edged soul, good or bad?

Like Steve said there is some good stuff but like he also says there is some rubbish that IMO is only played by others trying to be the next Paul Sadot or Karl Heard and failing miserably.

The records from Paul's mix, in particular Sir Guy - I Need You, King Roosevelt, William C Belton are all good records but maybe the term Northern is stretching it as it would be for others e.g 2 from JJ Caillier's label Sampy And Bad Habits / Chuck Colbert and some gospel themed tunes with soul like Bobby Lee Fears but they're definitely tunes with a funky soul feel.

So again we come down to a matter of definition and ultimately personal taste.

I welcome the development of nights and playlists in this manner others may not. I also agree with Joan that the hard edged 'blaxpolitation' tunes are the real point at issue as they don't have a soulful element and are pure funk.

But what genre of oldie ? Is it Northern?

Latin soul Kev .....

Its SOUL ,its undeground ..it gets a great reaction from the people who go to enjoy themselves at venues and thats because not everyone is a record collector or dj

Some people actually go out and embrace the music and enjoy it in whatever genre it comes in ..and don't feel the need to dissect every song that they hear played !

Me , i like 60's uptempo /60's beat ballads /70's uptempo /70's beat ballads ..funky soul ..cross over a bit of Jazz and so on ..

I don't like everything i hear ..i don't pour scorn at anything that does'nt float my boat ....and thats because i'm not the only person who paid to get in ,so give and take and hopefully over the course of a night ,i will have heard plenty of stuff to have made the journey and the admission price worthwhile

Back on track ..I'll leave you with one of my all time fave so called funky soul numbers to date ( i havent heard everything yet )

https://youtu.be/uNZK5IxvnMs

Latin soul Kev .....

Me , i like 60's uptempo /60's beat ballads /70's uptempo /70's beat ballads ..funky soul ..cross over a bit of Jazz and so on ..

I don't like everything i hear ..i don't pour scorn at anything that does'nt float my boat ....and thats because i'm not the only person who paid to get in ,so give and take and hopefully over the course of a night ,i will have heard plenty of stuff to have made the journey and the admission price worthwhile

But would you not say that 90% of people who pay to get into a night advertised as "Northern Soul" would expect to hear "Northern Soul" and not jazz or any other such 'music'?

Where do tunes like Harvey Averne - "Never learned to dance" fit in.Funk? Disco?..fills the floor still all over the country.....booted etc.....not NS but has the balls played off it at NS venues.....

Latin

But don't get me started on that lol. Saying that I do like HA

Latin

But don't get me started on that lol. Saying that I do like HA

I don't like HA at all.

What's your top current funky spin Mr Bearsy? Or is that a daft question.

Latin soul Kev .....

Its SOUL ,its undeground ..it gets a great reaction from the people who go to enjoy themselves at venues and thats because not everyone is a record collector or dj

Some people actually go out and embrace the music and enjoy it in whatever genre it comes in ..and don't feel the need to dissect every song that they hear played !

Me , i like 60's uptempo /60's beat ballads /70's uptempo /70's beat ballads ..funky soul ..cross over a bit of Jazz and so on ..

I don't like everything i hear ..i don't pour scorn at anything that does'nt float my boat ....and thats because i'm not the only person who paid to get in ,so give and take and hopefully over the course of a night ,i will have heard plenty of stuff to have made the journey and the admission price worthwhile

Back on track ..I'll leave you with one of my all time fave so called funky soul numbers to date ( i havent heard everything yet )

https://youtu.be/uNZK5IxvnMs

A brilliant philosophy

But would you not say that 90% of people who pay to get into a night advertised as "Northern Soul" would expect to hear "Northern Soul" and not jazz or any other such 'music'?

Not sure i follow Pete ....if your an authority on "Northern soul" then im all ears

Over the course of the last 30+ yrs i would wager we have not only heard most of the genre's ,but actually embraced and made iconic dance floor faves of many a tune that isnt a traditional "Northern soul " sound ?

Infact i'll go one step further and say ...there isnt such a thing as a Northern soul record !

Nobody apart from Ian Levine ever actually recorded a song that was specifically aimed at the Northern soul market .

Most records were made in America by artists who were trying to cut it as successful artists ,but in most cases failed ..records lay forgotten ..some rich white dudes from England sat in warehouses etc and went through records ..gave em a listen and said :g: :g: Yes ,that one would fit nicely in a Northern soul dj's set cos its got just the right sound for those crazy dancers

And so it was ...some were country and western ,some were rock n roll ,some were down and out crazy things like Travis Womacks scratchy ..buy hey ho they worked

So why cant a record that has jazz or funk undertones fit into a "Northern soul " dj's set ??

Back on track ..I'll leave you with one of my all time fave so called funky soul numbers to date ( i havent heard everything yet )

https://youtu.be/uNZK5IxvnMs

Another cheapy Nev

Where do tunes like Harvey Averne - "Never learned to dance" fit in.Funk? Disco?..fills the floor still all over the country.....booted etc.....not NS but has the balls played off it at NS venues.....

Ady Croasdell was spinning this mid 80's. I'd consider it Latin, always though of it that way although it fitted in with some of the latin stuff he was playing at the time.

Not sure i follow Pete ....if your an authority on "Northern soul" then im all ears

Over the course of the last 30+ yrs i would wager we have not only heard most of the genre's ,but actually embraced and made iconic dance floor faves of many a tune that isnt a traditional "Northern soul " sound ?

Infact i'll go one step further and say ...there isnt such a thing as a Northern soul record !

Nobody apart from Ian Levine ever actually recorded a song that was specifically aimed at the Northern soul market .

Most records were made in America by artists who were trying to cut it as successful artists ,but in most cases failed ..records lay forgotten ..some rich white dudes from England sat in warehouses etc and went through records ..gave em a listen and said :g: :g: Yes ,that one would fit nicely in a Northern soul dj's set cos its got just the right sound for those crazy dancers

And so it was ...some were country and western ,some were rock n roll ,some were down and out crazy things like Travis Womacks scratchy ..buy hey ho they worked

So why cant a record that has jazz or funk undertones fit into a "Northern soul " dj's set ??

Ask your punters not me.

You don't need to ask me what I like, you know what I like. Traditional 60's Northern Soul and Cleethorpes type uptempo 70's. But if you honestly believe that everyone who goes to one of your venues is as open minded as you about what constitutes NS, try playing half an hour of records with "jazz undertones" and see what the reaction is.

If you're trying to invent some kind of new anything fits type soul scene then thats fine, but you'll also then lose half the customers..

Another cheapy Nev

Lol

Ok ...a cheapie example just for you

[media=]

But would you not say that 90% of people who pay to get into a night advertised as "Northern Soul" would expect to hear "Northern Soul" and not jazz or any other such 'music'?

Yep! The vast majority of paying customers want what you call traditional type northern soul, don't care what anyone says. Lifeline has had to give in a little from the time we were at a smaller venue. With a big hall like we have we would have an empty venue spinning crossover and funk for large parts of the night. 60's and 60's dancers still rule at an all-nighter and most soul nights. If it is funky it has to have the right vibe, that northern style feel so they can still dance the northern way.

AS for no such thing as a Northern Soul record try telling a dancer that. Ask them what Tomangoes, Cecil Washington or any other classic and I know what the answer will be. Nev is right that when the music was recorded it was R&B, pop or whatever field the artist was aiming for but here, love the term or hate it, it is Northern Soul.

https://youtu.be/uNZK5IxvnMs

Right on for darkness brother!

Nice one Nev - always liked this.

Ask your punters not me.

You don't need to ask me what I like, you know what I like. Traditional 60's Northern Soul and Cleethorpes type uptempo 70's. But if you honestly believe that everyone who goes to one of your venues is as open minded as you about what constitutes NS, try playing half an hour of records with "jazz undertones" and see what the reaction is.

If you're trying to invent some kind of new anything fits type soul scene then thats fine, but you'll also then lose half the customers..

Pete ..i was'nt inferring that anyone should play a full set of anything ..a good balance is always key .

Ive argued before that i don't like a full hr of uptempo 60's as much as i don't like a full hr of Funk ,modern /cross over etc etc .

No dj worth his salt should play too much of anything in a big room aimed at the more traditional Northern soul type events ..

thats selfish and disrespectful to the promoter and a sure fire way of emptying the floor !

I remember talking to a member on here ,who once played Hamilton Movement in a big room many moons ago and cleared the floor

Its long since been a big hit and a dancefloor favourite since then ,so i guess things take time and drip feeding is ,and always has been the way as far as the main room is concerned.

Thankfully there are a lot of other nice little venue's in the Uk and all over Europe, that don't follow that philosophy and cater for people who embrace all things soulful, and arent afraid to put some faith in dj's to be a little more creative and experimental

Lastly ...nothing i say is intended to try and change yours or anyone elses minds ...i like what i like and i won't allow others to dictate what i can and cant like !

Pete ..i was'nt inferring that anyone should play a full set of anything ..a good balance is always key .

Ive argued before that i don't like a full hr of uptempo 60's as much as i don't like a full hr of Funk ,modern /cross over etc etc .

No dj worth his salt should play too much of anything in a big room aimed at the more traditional Northern soul type events ..

thats selfish and disrespectful to the promoter and a sure fire way of emptying the floor !

I remember talking to a member on here ,who once played Hamilton Movement in a big room many moons ago and cleared the floor

Its long since been a big hit and a dancefloor favourite since then ,so i guess things take time and drip feeding is ,and always has been the way as far as the main room is concerned.

Thankfully there are a lot of other nice little venue's in the Uk and all over Europe, that don't follow that philosophy and cater for people who embrace all things soulful, and arent afraid to put some faith in dj's to be a little more creative and experimental

Lastly ...nothing i say is intended to try and change yours or anyone elses minds ...i like what i like and i won't allow others to dictate what i can and cant like !

Nev if ever I was running a venue I'd like to hear something a bit different as well, but it's my experience that most people are very set in what they want to hear when they go out, God help us we've all been there, I was once asked to play some Motown so I played a few decent things like The VIP's, Midnight Johnny, two or three like that, and the girl who asked in the first place said no not that stuff, haven't you got Jimmy Mack (Martha & vandellas)...

It does have a place in the right venue and with the right people, put it in the wrong place with the wrong people and it doesn't

Nev if ever I was running a venue I'd like to hear something a bit different as well, but it's my experience that most people are very set in what they want to hear when they go out, God help us we've all been there, I was once asked to play some Motown so I played a few decent things like The VIP's, Midnight Johnny, two or three like that, and the girl who asked in the first place said no not that stuff, haven't you got Jimmy Mack (Martha & vandellas)...

No worries Pete ...yes we've all been there mate ..i've had all the usual casino classics ,poppy shite requests and last but not least Billy f***in Ocean

Safe to say ..it's a work in progress eh

No worries Pete ...yes we've all been there mate ..i've had all the usual casino classics ,poppy shite requests and last but not least Billy f***in Ocean

Safe to say ..it's a work in progress eh

The best request I've had was Lionel Ritchie....that was at an all-nighter as well

The best request I've had was Lionel Ritchie....that was at an all-nighter as well

Was gonna press "Like " but maybe we should have a "unlike" too

"Dancing on the ceiling" for someone off his /her head !

Edited July 6, 201212 yr by NEV

The best request I've had was Lionel Ritchie....that was at an all-nighter as well

I don't like HA at all.

What's your top current funky spin Mr Bearsy? Or is that a daft question.

Tbh Peter I don't know what's funky soul or not lol. I just like bloody good dance music with a soulful feel depth and something that makes me wanna dance :-)

If its good it's good no matter what it's classed as 70s rnb funky modern oldies classic rare underplayed etc etc etc

Not sure i follow Pete ....if your an authority on "Northern soul" then im all ears

Over the course of the last 30+ yrs i would wager we have not only heard most of the genre's ,but actually embraced and made iconic dance floor faves of many a tune that isnt a traditional "Northern soul " sound ?

Infact i'll go one step further and say ...there isnt such a thing as a Northern soul record !

Nobody apart from Ian Levine ever actually recorded a song that was specifically aimed at the Northern soul market .

Most records were made in America by artists who were trying to cut it as successful artists ,but in most cases failed ..records lay forgotten ..some rich white dudes from England sat in warehouses etc and went through records ..gave em a listen and said :g: :g: Yes ,that one would fit nicely in a Northern soul dj's set cos its got just the right sound for those crazy dancers

And so it was ...some were country and western ,some were rock n roll ,some were down and out crazy things like Travis Womacks scratchy ..buy hey ho they worked

So why cant a record that has jazz or funk undertones fit into a "Northern soul " dj's set ??

Always a delight to see that I'm not alone in appreciating this.

One more time: 'Northern Soul' is not a musical genre - it's a youth cult approaching retirement age. It's a movement that began when people shared a broad common interest in certain styles of music. Now it's mainly full of ageing and cantankerous grumblies who either go on about how "it's not like the old days" or bemoan anything that's different or left of field of anything outside of their increasingly narrow and glaucomic vision.

Not a single artist, group or label owner in the 60s ever recorded a song and said "let's do it in the Northern Soul style!"

Why this desperate need to pigeon-hole and categorise - it's beyond me. Learn to see the bigger musical picture.

But what genre of oldie ? Is it Northern?

Hi Kev, I'd just class it as a dance record without trying to pigeonhole it too much. It's not traditional northern, but obviously is popular with northern soul heads....

The best request I've had was Lionel Ritchie....that was at an all-nighter as well

Did yer play it?

Tbh Peter I don't know what's funky soul or not lol. I just like bloody good dance music with a soulful feel depth and something that makes me wanna dance :-)

If its good it's good no matter what it's classed as 70s rnb funky modern oldies classic rare underplayed etc etc etc

I knew you'd be obtuse!

I knew you'd be obtuse!

Who you calling fat ??

Who you calling fat ??

That fat fecking feline!

You heard from him?

Did yer play it?

I said "if you can get a copy from someone in here I'll play but I think your in the wrong venue for that sort of stuff"

Well, beware, Marc Almond was on BBC breakfast this morning saying he'd thought of bringing out an album of "Northern Soul covers".... how long before you get asked for one of the tracks off that!

:lol:

Hi Kev, I'd just class it as a dance record without trying to pigeonhole it too much. It's not traditional northern, but obviously is popular with northern soul heads....

Very apt, what with it's ''Top gear'' connection

Never thought I'd ever say this ..... but the Willie Wright track above MIGHT even top Curtis M's original.

WW's take on the song is so different it almost becomes another song altogether.

Just LOVE LOVE LOVE the flute in it & his voice is so gritty ....

.... a real gem that I'd love to be played out a whole lot more (beats 99% of Wigan Stompers into the ground).

Edited July 8, 201212 yr by Roburt

As per usual........we all know who plays it........we all know who kills it.........but hey....lets keep saying they're top people (which mostly they are) and we love their stuff........which on the night is a universal "no we don,t".........soul source never changes in this respect....we wanna moan,but we just can,t say what we're moaning about and who's causing it (although we know)

That fat fecking feline!

You heard from him?

No I think the dog next door got him pinned to fence lol

No I think the dog next door got him pinned to fence lol

A long time to be pinned to anything.

Why this desperate need to pigeon-hole and categorise - it's beyond me. Learn to see the bigger musical picture.

So if you went to see a heavy metal concert and they played a country and western set that would be alright would it?