A Question For The Oldies Brigade ?

[Speedlimit]

Ok here we go  imagine this  all the top 500 had not been discovered yet, but sounds such as the mello souls , imperial.c's sandy golden, and all the other excellent 60's 70's sounds of the last 15 -20 years were the sounds of the so called golden era. Now imagine this the likes of moses smith  tomangoes. salvadors  etc were now new spins this year , would the oldies brigade be so reluctant to accept them as new sounds????.  

[Scal]

What a stupid hypothesis!
If my aunty had b*llocks she would be my uncle!

Edited December 14, 2013 by pikeys dog
Swearing flags up on company servers.

[Premium Stuff]

I get the hypothesis - potentially quite a deep discussion here.

 

Can see lots of folk coming forward with interesting and insightful comments on this one.

 

But will the "oldies brigade" have their say I wonder? 

 

I prefer the Stafford sound to the Wigan sound by the way - so many of the top 500 are not particular favourites of mine - and some I think are a bag-o-sh*te 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Edited December 13, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[Sean Hampsey]

Bottom line is Moses Smith, Tomangoes and Salvadors are simply much better records than the other three (to my ears at least, lol) so I imagine that fans of the former would generally have no problem with the latter!

Sean

[Dave Pinch]

depends when you got into it i suppose out of the six tunes mentioned imperial c` is the best closely followed by tomangoes and moses smith.....salvadors the worst outta the bunch but none too shabby.. got to know all the sounds above with the exception of the mello souls within maybe four years after coming obsessed with the scene

 

Bottom line is Moses Smith, Tomangoes and Salvadors are simply much better records than the other three (to my ears at least, lol) so I imagine that fans of the former would generally have no problem with the latter!



Sean

[Guest Paul]

It may seem obvious but if some of the old classics were new discoveries today I don't see how anyone would "refuse to accept them" because the standard of most records was so high.

 

Interesting things still turn up of course but in the early 1970s we had dozens of great 45s being discovered every month.  Just imagine going out one weekend and hearing things such as 'Blowing My Mind To Pieces', 'Too Darn Soulful' or 'My Heart Needs A Break' for the very first time.

It's a nice thought.

[Wiganer1]

THE GOOD RECORDS ARE JUST AS GOOD THE BAD JUST AS BAD

[Philt]

Individual merits and taste aside, I think how much a record resonates at a time and place, and how long that endures for, often depends on precisely where and when you were when it hit home. I reckon an average record will have hit you harder and stay with you longer if you heard it and danced to it 'on the rise' in a packed room on a buzzing dance floor.

I think it's hard to be really objective about records 'broken' in the period since the whopping, central nighters kinda declined. For anything to achieve the same status as things like the first three 'on the scene' nowadays, feck me they'd need to be special cos the context is so different.

That doesn't mean they ain't as good of course, just that people tend to hear them in a really different environment ie its harder to 'hear' the next Tomangoes in a half empty room with no atmosphere populated by fat, balding sixty somethings. (Plus, after 30+ years at it for many, it's harder to be blown away I think. I'd take the Mello Souls personally; how would that intro have sounded to 600+ 18-25 year olds right on it?)

[Frankie Crocker]

All these records sound like oldies ie 1966-1969 vintage. If they were Crossover sounds then they would be less accepted by the oldies crowd but they're not... Do oldies lovers really resent the discovery of new oldies? I would hope not given that it's all good music. To answer the question, the oldies brigade would embrace these sounds as they're good dance tunes and timeless in their appeal.

[Kjw]

I don't view the oldies crowd as a group who purely like oldies - they like what is popular

 

They're all straight on the floor when the likes of Sidney Barnes - Standing On Solid Ground or Billy Davis - Stanky are played

 

Basically, if a record is rammed down their throats for long enough they'll come to accept it

[Sikirby]

When does a record become an oldie nowadays? Surely all those records that were discovered and played in the eighties and nineties are now oldies, just as those that had be spun at the Wheel and Torch.

[Bazza]

I don't get this ,they are all oldies,unless of course they are modern   

 

Bazza  

[Mrtag]

 in a half empty room with no atmosphere populated by fat, balding sixty somethings.

 

Naff off will ya!! I resemble that comment      

[Zed1]

I don't view the oldies crowd as a group who purely like oldies - they like what is popular

 

They're all straight on the floor when the likes of Sidney Barnes - Standing On Solid Ground or Billy Davis - Stanky are played

 

Basically, if a record is rammed down their throats for long enough they'll come to accept it

 

Agreed......

 

Tracks like Moses Smith and Ruby Andrews aren't popular today because people remember them from their 'Yoof', they're popular because they have a certain tempo and production that's right for todays scene, this also explains why tracks like DJ Genitals or that god awful 'Tribute' thing is filling floors at 'Local Soul'.

 

I think these days the music is only part of the general scene, it's as much about the social aspect as it is about  what comes out of the speakers.

 

The days where every soul night was just Wigan Oldies aimed at the  A typical returnee is long gone,

Edited December 14, 2013 by Zed1

[John May]

Good Question, but unfortunately worded in away that people will file off into their specific groups & defend their position, rather than enter into an open debate.  Again as with so many threads on here, it seems to lend to the acceptance that there is division on the soul scene, and although only a fool would deny it, i always feel uncomfortable with it.

 

It all comes down to mind set rather than if a record is worthy or not, if you have a mind as so many oldies fans have, in that they are more than happy dancing every week to the records they've listened to since their teens, then they are not really interested in listening to anything new, and that is up to them, and i have no problem with that, in fact some ways they are the true soul fans as they have found what the want to listen to & are happy with it.

 

From a rare soul fans view, there is always another record to find, always searching never happy, from that view point they can never accept the oldies fans position, however it doesn't have be divisive, some D.J's can move easily between oldies and Rare, you only have to look at Mick H & Ted Massey, both with fantastic rare collections, but can play oldies nights without a problem, & i have total respect for both theses guys, and should be an example to us all.

 

So for me It all comes down to mind set rather than if a record is worthy or not.

 

[barney]

I don't view the oldies crowd as a group who purely like oldies - they like what is popular

 

They're all straight on the floor when the likes of Sidney Barnes - Standing On Solid Ground or Billy Davis - Stanky are played

 

Basically, if a record is rammed down their throats for long enough they'll come to accept

cant agree with this last statement ,a crap record is a crap record no matter how many times it gets played .

this is what really does my napper in, who the fook thinks they are god and should decide what we want ,

[Guest Big Al 68]

                  The way I see things ( usually cock eyed and blurry ! ) is surely even the most played to death "oldie" had to be played 1st somewhere as a "new " spin, to a sweaty bunch of soulies who were probably thinking " what the fecks this ??" .  So even the most ardent , dyed in the wool Oldies fan, at some point were open minded and eager

to hear/dance to / collect "newies" ! .  So at what point did they think to themselves " right , no more , I'm quite happy to listen to the same tracks , every week , for the next 30 years" ?    Whatever happened to real Northern soul nights / niters , where you had your fix of oldies , newies ( that word still baffles me ! ), rarities and cover ups, in a word , something for every one !

                                                        I am not out to cause offence, nor having a pop at anyone , people who know me will ( I hope ) agree I aint like that, its just my own

     personal view . I love oldies , but also look forward to hearing some new tunes, (well new to me at least) each week, but unfortunately ,this is becoming a rare treat !

                                                                                      Regards

                                                                                                  Al

[barney]

                  The way I see things ( usually cock eyed and blurry ! ) is surely even the most played to death "oldie" had to be played 1st somewhere as a "new " spin, to a sweaty bunch of soulies who were probably thinking " what the fecks this ??" .  So even the most ardent , dyed in the wool Oldies fan, at some point were open minded and eager

to hear/dance to / collect "newies" ! .  So at what point did they think to themselves " right , no more , I'm quite happy to listen to the same tracks , every week , for the next 30 years" ?    Whatever happened to real Northern soul nights / niters , where you had your fix of oldies , newies ( that word still baffles me ! ), rarities and cover ups, in a word , something for every one !

                                                        I am not out to cause offence, nor having a pop at anyone , people who know me will ( I hope ) agree I aint like that, its just my own

     personal view . I love oldies , but also look forward to hearing some new tunes, (well new to me at least) each week, but unfortunately ,this is becoming a rare treat !

                                                                                      Regards

                                                                                                  Al

these are my feeling as well , trouble is there isn't that much new music that cuts the mustard ,consider myself fortunate that I am of an age that when I first came on the scene nobody had heard of northern soul it was just great music to dance to with like minded souls,

am sure most people will accept a good record no matter what era/genre it comes from .  we were spoilt back then when there was a plethora of great records coming online every week ,

Edited December 14, 2013 by barney

[Guest Paul]

these are my feeling as well , trouble is there isn't that much new music that cuts the mustard ,consider myself fortunate that I am of an age that when I first came on the scene nobody had heard of northern soul it was just great music to dance to with like minded souls,

am sure most people will accept a good record no matter what era/genre it comes from .  we were spoilt back then when there was a plethora of great records coming online every week ,

 

Very true, we were spoiled rotten, and that's why we're so hard to please now.

[Zed1]

cant agree with this last statement ,a crap record is a crap record no matter how many times it gets played .

this is what really does my napper in, who the fook thinks they are god and should decide what we want ,

 

Ultimately Barney it's the dance floor that decides. That 'Tribute' track I mentioned above is about as crap a record as it's possible to get IMHO, yet dance floors around the country every week would beg to differ with my thinking on this piece of shite.

[Guest Big Al 68]

these are my feeling as well , trouble is there isn't that much new music that cuts the mustard ,consider myself fortunate that I am of an age that when I first came on the scene nobody had heard of northern soul it was just great music to dance to with like minded souls,

am sure most people will accept a good record no matter what era/genre it comes from .  we were spoilt back then when there was a plethora of great records coming online every week ,

                  I missed the hey day, Stafford onwards was my era, and I'm still playing catch up today !  What I had meant to put across ( but failed miserably) was not so much as new discoveries I wanted to hear, which are very few and far between these days , but some of the thousands of forgotten/underplayed/ discs , although probably never massive , were still part of our scene . Whether I like the tune or not , its still a breath of fresh air, for me at least .

[alanmandy]

Love "tribute"  think it's a great play to finish off a night and is always played at the end of one of my local venues and might i add i am one of the oldies brigade,that's my  honest opinion!

[Guest db121]

Love "tribute"  think it's a great play to finish off a night and is always played at the end of one of my local venues and might i add i am one of the oldies brigade,that's my  honest opinion!

What venues play this?

[kimbo]

Ok here we go  imagine this  all the top 500 had not been discovered yet, but sounds such as the mello souls , imperial.c's sandy golden, and all the other excellent 60's 70's sounds of the last 15 -20 years were the sounds of the so called golden era. Now imagine this the likes of moses smith  tomangoes. salvadors  etc were now new spins this year , would the oldies brigade be so reluctant to accept them as new sounds????.  

Hi, I am hoping to test that theory. On the scene since the mid 70's my wife also no kids so have not had a break from travelling attending etc and have enjoyed it all. My musical taste has expanded and moved forward along the way. Missed about 1 Stafford. Love lifeline. Recently had a good chat at Stewartby with Tez aka Gordon Russell who was on about the Burnley uptempo vibe and the records he named and a couple that one of the ones dj played that nite I had never heard. The two I heard had that excitement factor. Iove to hear new stuff so Burnley hear I come as soon as I can. The reason I had not gone before is I drove to venues alone for approx. the last 5 years (wife into upfront modern) so a 100mile radius was my limit to be awake on the way home. But now hooking up with top soul buddies Mark and Manus the sky is the limit. Have done more niters of Late since when Manus last went it was more niters than soul nites. It has been a ball. Typing this at work feeling pee'd off missing Nunny niter tonite.

atb Kimbo

[Ted Massey]

What venues play this?

to many lol but it does get the feet moving and is a floor filler every where probably more so at oldies nights

[Barry]

to many lol but it does get the feet moving and is a floor filler every where probably more so at oldies nights

 

Probably showing it's more about the feel of the track than it's constituent components.

[Guest gfarrington]

if moses smith etc were brand new sounds it would be f***** ace, & i'd be thinking how come these were not discovered earlier & thinking wow what is going to turn up next,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,happy days

[John May]

if moses smith etc were brand new sounds it would be f***** ace, & i'd be thinking how come these were not discovered earlier & thinking wow what is going to turn up next,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,happy days

 

In a few years time when we're all suffering from Alzhiemers, they'll all become Newies again anyway, think i've already started, another reason why the oldies are sounding good again,

[Zed1]

 but it does get the feet moving

 

Yeh,..... Straight out of the fooking door....

[Bazza]

Probably get shot down for this

 this is also called "Tribute (right on)"

 

But I do like this 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_21ceBwwJJ8

 

Bazza  

[barney]

Ultimately Barney it's the dance floor that decides. That 'Tribute' track I mentioned above is about as crap a record as it's possible to get IMHO, yet dance floors around the country every week would beg to differ with my thinking on this piece of shite.

well if that's so we would be up to our necks in The Elgins /Joy Lovejoy type of sounds which always fill the dancefloor .

stand back and listen, tribute no more deserves to be played at a northern soul night than does say Eloise or car wash or dare I say black Sabbath  .

Ive heard the latter played at a soul nite thought to be fair it was a charity nite and the floor was rammed ffs ,

some people just don't get it,, eh

Edited December 14, 2013 by barney

[Barry]

Probably get shot down for this

 this is also called "Tribute (right on)"

 

But I do like this 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_21ceBwwJJ8

 

Bazza  

 

Love it!!

[Guest Soultown andy]

Probably get shot down for this

 this is also called "Tribute (right on)"

 

But I do like this 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_21ceBwwJJ8

 

Bazza  

I once played this at the queens niter in stoke we billed it as atb niter.Filled the floor,never chanced it again since thou.

[Bazza]

I once played this at the queens niter in stoke we billed it as atb niter.Filled the floor,never chanced it again since thou.

I wouldn't object to hearing it out ,I think its a corker 

 

 

Bazza  

[John May]

Love it!!

 

Nah, Sounds like the music you hear playing in the background when your walking around B&Q buying your wallpaper, no substance to it. Why would anyone choose to play that when you can stick on a perfectly good, banging 60's stormer. But 70's & modern has never really done it for me anyway. Each & to their own.

[Barry]

Nah, Sounds like the music you hear playing in the background when your walking around B&Q buying your wallpaper, no substance to it. Why would anyone choose to play that when you can stick on a perfectly good, banging 60's stormer. But 70's & modern has never really done it for me anyway. Each & to their own.

 

Exactly John - I won't tell you what to like if you don't tell me ay?

[alanmandy]

What venues play this?

Eggborough,packed house every month.

[Guest sharmo 1]

Ok here we go  imagine this  all the top 500 had not been discovered yet, but sounds such as the mello souls , imperial.c's sandy golden, and all the other excellent 60's 70's sounds of the last 15 -20 years were the sounds of the so called golden era. Now imagine this the likes of moses smith  tomangoes. salvadors  etc were now new spins this year , would the oldies brigade be so reluctant to accept them as new sounds????.  

Now that is a very good question sir.

[Guest db121]

Eggborough,packed house every month.

Cheers Well that's one venue I can give a miss then

[KevH]

Had this conversation a few times ,usually at all nighters.Take Lou Pride for instance."Im coming home etc"..a Northern Soul classic.

But if newly discovered now ,would it be relegated to the "new funky shite" category ? Or be as readily accepted as it was back then.?

[SOULCENTRAL]

Cheers Well that's one venue I can give a miss then

 

GOOD, I dont think you would be missed as likewise anyone with a narrow mind falls into the same catagory,

[SOULCENTRAL]

Ok here we go  imagine this  all the top 500 had not been discovered yet, but sounds such as the mello souls , imperial.c's sandy golden, and all the other excellent 60's 70's sounds of the last 15 -20 years were the sounds of the so called golden era. Now imagine this the likes of moses smith  tomangoes. salvadors  etc were now new spins this year , would the oldies brigade be so reluctant to accept them as new sounds????.  

 

A hint of reverse psycology, would the rare and underplayed  brigade accept them as undiscovered sounds???.

 

ROY

[Quinvy]

Had this conversation a few times ,usually at all nighters.Take Lou Pride for instance."Im coming home etc"..a Northern Soul classic.

But if newly discovered now ,would it be relegated to the "new funky shite" category ? Or be as readily accepted as it was back then.?

No, it's fookin class my friend. In fact it sounds even better now than it did back in the day. One I never managed to obtain.

[KevH]

No, it's fookin class my friend. In fact it sounds even better now than it did back in the day. One I never managed to obtain.

 

You're right Phil,its one oldie that has matured like a robust red.!!

[Bazza]

Lou Pride didn't know if I liked then,still don't know now   

 

Bazza  

[Guest]

Naff off will ya!! I resemble that comment      

[Dazdakin]

Your never gonna find the quality and quantity as when stuff such as salvadors, tomangoes etc but if it was role reversal then I would seek out and go to venues that played this new up tempo new genre everybody is calling northern soul.

Because no matter how rare sandy golden is it ain't never gonna be a stonking floor killer as its fecking boring tripe!!!

Dazz

[Guest db121]

GOOD, I dont think you would be missed as likewise anyone with a narrow mind falls into the same catagory,

My mind is open to any decent music and I search it out unlike some sheep wanting to hear anything that's popular.

The public want what the public get.

I've just looked on events and I haven't got the wardrobe for it anyway.

Edited December 14, 2013 by db121

[Dave Pinch]

You're right Phil,its one oldie that has matured like a robust red.!!

i like your love is fading.....never understood the appeal of i`m cummin home a 100 mph racket to my ears

[Peter99]

i like your love is fading.....never understood the appeal of i`m cummin home a 100 mph racket to my ears

Me too.

 

Just a nasty mess to my ears.

 

 

Peter