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NEV

Record Hire

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Morning all :)

Was thinking to myself the other day about all this constant searching for rare vinyl and paying high prices( supply & demand) that maybe if your only a dj type and not a collector, who wants to follow the correct protocol to play only original vinyl.Why not kill two birds with one stone and create a swap shop or maybe hire service?

The idea being, you put up a want for a dj spot in a few weeks and someone who owns It sets a fee, send's it and you hire it for a given period.

Could try getting a insurance group to offer a service to cover for any damage etc.

Alternatively, swap shop, you got something I.want and vice versa... No fees necessary, maybe just the insurance.

It just occurs to.me that there really are more dj/ collectors these days than actual label lickers / true collectors!

The amount of so called collectors constantly moving stuff around in sales confirms this?

The affect this would have on auction prices, sales prices would surely be massive!

Dealers would have to reduce prices because the demand would drop overnight!

No need for that frantic chasing / crazy bidding war for not so rare records and that would make it even better for the true collector, the guys who really treasure these old pieces of history!

Fire away boys and girls and remember.. We're all grown ups, so be civilised and constructive comments as to why you agree or oppose, or maybe even suggestions to actually make it work?

P.s keyboard warriors are banned from this one cos it's my topic and I reserve the right to remove you to the sin bin ( another good idea for mods to consider)

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Well it's a good theory and I could name a few records from the top of my head that I would like to hire for my next set, but in practice it would be a total nightmare! With rare records being returned with extra scratches or with 'more background noise' plus I wouldn't really feel comfortable loaning out my rarest things.

Does this put me in the sin bin?  :wink:

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Well it's a good theory and I could name a few records from the top of my head that I would like to hire for my next set, but in practice it would be a total nightmare! With rare records being returned with extra scratches or with 'more background noise' plus I wouldn't really feel comfortable loaning out my rarest things.

Does this put me in the sin bin? :wink:

Not at all Dave, that's for naughty boys and girls with bad tempers :)

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The idea sounds good to me. You should patent the idea of vinyl leasing , the proceeds could put you on the beach in the sun.

The idea in practice may silence some of the OVO enthusiasts tutting from the sidelines. Collecting OVO can be an expensive hobby and collectors don't necessarily make good DJ's so your idea if adopted may improve the quality of the sets delivered at venues.  

I suspect there is already an informal arrangement existing between friends who trust each other where they loan records (without a fee). Perhaps DJ's could broaden their circle of friends to make the informal arrangement widespread. But do DJ's have any friends? lol!

KTF :D

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Good topic Nev, however, not for me, your records represent you, there's plenty out there without having to resort to borrowing, a promoter will hire you on what you already have, confidence enough if you ask me that they think you have what it takes to give their venue a buzz. I also think it hinders creativeness, that incentive to dig the crates for something different, that ultimately represents you and your hard work, the thinking men out there will then appreciate that more than you borrowing stuff that doesn't belong to you, it opens itself to "big record ok, but it ain't his" and we all know that would happen

 

Best

 

Kev

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Don't like the idea mate, firstly surely we all like having that exclusive sound, yeah its an ego trip, but as people we naturally have a competitive edge ( well most do) i kind of see your point re the sale of rare tunes been driven down, but i'd never lend my tunes to anyone to play.  Is it not just the way it is, that some folks just have a better ear, and do more groundwork, then get the right records too do the job, than others ? The hire scenario in my eyes waters down that cult of the DJ for me.

Edited by Brett F

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Hasn't this always happened with dealers and collectors supplying top name DJ's  with sounds .  Would have thought it would be a very useful tool for dealers getting exposure for tracks enhancing their value on the market.

 

Derek

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Once, I did that with a record to a well known and as far as I've read here on SS a person with a "pedigree". I did think so also. That supposedly DJ with a "good" reputation was the first to play it on the Northern scene and it made it's buzz then (pre-internet days) that it even made Butch asking me to trade it from me. It was then known by only few collectors. Every time that DJ/dealer guy and me had to meet, he did "forgot about it" home. He even proposed me nice records to trade out of his own collection. But I always turned the trades down since all I wanted was my record back. Now that DJ still has my record and he pretends that we did trade it. That is a never ! That "good" reputation person is just such a liar. Now I can imagine the "hire" thing happening otherwise at times. Or at least at times. Not talking about the real mischiefs (broken stolen lost...) and the fact that an insurance never covers the full value of a very relative value based on a valuation system that is very speculative on top gonna make any issues very tricky to work out right. And then, not talking about the wolves in sheep clothing that will rush in this "golden" opportunity. Spin what you have and the reward of a very long want that took all that time to own is the biggest prize you will get. IMHO

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Once, I did that with a record to a well known and as far as I've read here on SS a person with a "pedigree". I did think so also. That supposedly DJ with a "good" reputation was the first to play it on the Northern scene and it made it's buzz then (pre-internet days) that it even made Butch asking me to trade it from me. It was then known by only few collectors. Every time that DJ/dealer guy and me had to meet, he did "forgot about it" home. He even proposed me nice records to trade out of his own collection. But I always turned the trades down since all I wanted was my record back. Now that DJ still has my record and he pretends that we did trade it. That is a never ! That "good" reputation person is just such a liar. Now I can imagine the "hire" thing happening otherwise at times. Or at least at times. Not talking about the real mischiefs (broken stolen lost...) and the fact that an insurance never covers the full value of a very relative value based on a valuation system that is very speculative on top gonna make any issues very tricky to work out right. And then, not talking about the wolves in sheep clothing that will rush in this "golden" opportunity. Spin what you have and the reward of a very long want that took all that time to own is the biggest prize you will get. IMHO

 

That to me would be the biggest pitfall, so any hiring would have to be managed by an independent third party, which would mediate in any disputes, but would also add to the costs.

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i think the whole snobbery and showing off would be totally lost if you never actually chased and owned the records,and in time would completely demean and destroy the whole idea off chasing that all illusive record,but then again im old school in my idea of records and the dj's that spin them.

 

mind you if it was left to me,things would never move forward,im a creature of habit....positive and enthusiastic idea though nev!

Edited by dobber

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You can already do it of sorts.  Mr Manship offers a 7 day no quibble guarantee.  Fill ya boots with him on your credit card on a Wednesday, receive the record by the weekend.  Play your gig and send it back on the Monday, you may get charged some interest and that’s your hire fee, job done.  There were rumours a while back, that a couple of radio DJ’s did this, but unsure who the records were temporarily bought from.

Edited by John Reed

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Idea's fine but wouldn't the hire fee just keep spiralling upwards just the same as the dealer price does to own the record? plus the dealers who set the high price of vinyl would just benefit from the high cost of hiring as they do from selling :( 

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It'd be a real win win for the punters - it would give dancers at smaller venues the opportunity to get up to records they've only dreamt about dancing to (at OVO events at any rate).

 

The DJs might worry about losing their 'USP' but they've still got to have the chops to sequence the records in such a way that it creates a magic night for the dancers.

 

And a DJ set 'featuring an exclusive spin of…..' could draw more people in.

 

I reckon a simple, generic contract that could be made available to all participants, requiring 2 x signatures and 1 witness should do it.

 

It's the future, Nev!…. then again i'm a dancer, not a DJ.

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You would have to get a deposit equal to the cost of the records , just in case they got stolen lost or were not returned ;)

 

Insurance is ok you may get the money value back but some of these tunes are unreplaceable

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You would have to get a deposit equal to the cost of the records , just in case they got stolen lost or were not returned ;)

 

Insurance is ok you may get the money value back but some of these tunes are unreplaceable

 

Even if the swap happened,how are you going to agree on an Insurance value.? I'm just playing along with this for Nev's sake. :lol:

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You can already do it of sorts.  Mr Manship offers a 7 day no quibble guarantee.  Fill ya boots with him on your credit card on a Wednesday, receive the record by the weekend.  Play your gig and send it back on the Monday, you may get charged some interest and that’s your hire fee, job done.  There were rumours a while back, that a couple of radio DJ’s did this.

 

Naughty.

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It'd be a real win win for the punters - it would give dancers at smaller venues the opportunity to get up to records they've only dreamt about dancing to (at OVO events at any rate).

 

 

Alternatively shut the small venues down and everyone has to travel to hear the DJ thats playing the records, now there is a unique selling point!

Edited by jocko

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I suspect there'll be more prospective borrowers than people actually willing to hire out their records.  I can see some major disputes concerning the return of damaged records, or even the non return of records for whatever reason.  It's one thing hiring a car, they're repairable / replaceable, but the same can't be said for vinyl.  The rarer stuff wouldn't even be offered for hire, in my opinion, which defeats the whole object.

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In all honesty DJ's have always borrowed records, for most of the 80's I lent quite a few records as was never that bothered about DJing and was happy to dance to my own records, or at least stand at edge of record bar telling everyone how great taste I had! The good old days when the people djing were there for the right reasons....

 

Its the fact there are 4.7m DJ's with not enough playable records to go around thats the problem we should be discussing,

 

Meanwhile Neville has a few sly bids on Ebay for some unknowns hoping some of the other 4.7m aspiring djs have taken their eye off ebay to froth over a daft suggestion someone has made on Soul Source......

Edited by jocko

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in theory good idea to chat about instead of ovo etc..in practice nah..as kev said this scene should be all about having different djs playing there own sets..however expensive or cheap...known or not..already too many BIG oldies djs playing the same 50 records ;-)

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Surely the whole idea has to be a wind up????

I am assuming Nev has just got one of those new fangled hods with inbuilt IPad and thought he would make his lunch break more entertaining!

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A better idea would be to hire your own suitably attired northern soul dance troupe, who would dance to every record you played, clap enthusiastically after each record, and give you a massive round of applause at the end of your set.  For added effect, they could also engage in some back slapping.  Individuals from the troupe could take it in turns to rush up to the decks on a regular basis to enquire about the record being played.

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How about selling 1 expensive record and buy 150 brilliant cheap records then buy a 200 record box and put that 50 hotbox records and cheap records all together and then play an inspired set  :D

 

I must admit though I did have to hire a cement mixer once as I no longer own my own but if I get the right work I will buy another one again it will be cheaper in the long run  :thumbup:

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Reading it back and taking in the points brought up ,its just a silly idea and the answer to the question is simple

....if you haven't got the records ,don't borrow em ,instead leave it to the guys that already have em ,to DJ with em :)

Simples really !

P.s Jock ...I like the idea of the iPhone hod ,now I could patent that :)

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How about selling 1 expensive record and buy 150 brilliant cheap records then buy a 200 record box and put that 50 hotbox records and cheap records all together and then play an inspired set  :D

 

I must admit though I did have to hire a cement mixer once as I no longer own my own but if I get the right work I will buy another one again it will be cheaper in the long run  :thumbup:

 

Help.!! Too many numbers and a cement mixer.All in one sentence.!!

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Surely the whole idea has to be a wind up????

Whatever do you mean Pete ,I hope your not suggesting I am a cad and a bounder of sorts ;)

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I still like the idea. Rather than listening to Frankie Beverly and the Butler's for the Nth time in the evening and probably 4 or 5 times over the weekend we could get some crackin alternatives from Jeanette Williams, Bessie Jones or Loretta Williams.

The idea of hiring vinyl might brighten up the scene; a lot of the venues I attend have DJ's playing sets that are too predictable (top 50 NS tunes) to the point of being teeth grindingly boring; I can think of a few semi big name DJ's in that category. Perhaps those DJ's might be scared of not being invited behind the decks and become defensive of their status; thus they would resist the idea of hiring vinyl. 

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I still like the idea. Rather than listening to Frankie Beverly and the Butler's for the Nth time in the evening and probably 4 or 5 times over the weekend we could get some crackin alternatives from Jeanette Williams, Bessie Jones or Loretta Williams.

The idea of hiring vinyl might brighten up the scene; a lot of the venues I attend have DJ's playing sets that are too predictable (top 50 NS tunes) to the point of being teeth grindingly boring; I can think of a few semi big name DJ's in that category. Perhaps those DJ's might be scared of not being invited behind the decks and become defensive of their status; thus they would resist the idea of hiring vinyl. 

 

Sounds like you are attending the wrong venues, for you that is, if they are 'teeth grindingly boring' why go?

Edited by Pete60

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You can already do it of sorts.  Mr Manship offers a 7 day no quibble guarantee.  Fill ya boots with him on your credit card on a Wednesday, receive the record by the weekend.  Play your gig and send it back on the Monday, you may get charged some interest and that’s your hire fee, job done.  There were rumours a while back, that a couple of radio DJ’s did this, but unsure who the records were temporarily bought from.

 

Don't think you'd get your money back though. Probably just a credit note.

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Sounds like you are attending the wrong venues, for you that is, if they are 'teeth grindingly boring' why go?

Almost sounds like a guilty conscience Pete. I but should inform you that I'm not a priest and therefore not qualified to take the confession or how long you must spend at the alter of Frank Wilson reciting 'do I love you'. I am sure there are enough people on Soulsource to instruct you on penance. LOL :yes:    

I don't know you well enough to loan you OVO Jeanette Williams, Bessie Jones or Loretta Williams 45's but I'm sure you have mates who will lend them to you.

I hope you accept this message in the spirit of a reader pulling your leg rather than having a dig.

KTF

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Almost sounds like a guilty conscience Pete. I but should inform you that I'm not a priest and therefore not qualified to take the confession or how long you must spend at the alter of Frank Wilson reciting 'do I love you'. I am sure there are enough people on Soulsource to instruct you on penance. LOL :yes:    

I don't know you well enough to loan you OVO Jeanette Williams, Bessie Jones or Loretta Williams 45's but I'm sure you have mates who will lend them to you.

I hope you accept this message in the spirit of a reader pulling your leg rather than having a dig.

KTF

 

 

If I'm being perfectly honest I haven't got the foggiest idea what all that means, you go to events that are 'teeth grindingly boring' and I should be guilty and borrow some records????? I don't know who you are or the venues you attend, which are irrelevant anyway, so why have I a guilty conscience?

 

Are you saying you want to carry on attending those boring venues, although if those venues are reasonably well attended they can't be boring for everyone, you want to keep the same DJs but tell those DJs to leave their records at home and hire someone else's, preferably ones of your choice?

 

Yea it sounds like the future :thumbsup:

Edited by Pete60

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Nev, it's already happening with wannabe DJ's 'renting' the next big sound by paying over the odds and moving it on smartly when the masses are chasing after it. The scheme would create an upsurge of 'lost' records with Ray Agees and Mel Britts being 'left on the turntable' all over the country. Me, I couldn't subscribe as I tremble when seeing DJ's put fingerprints on records; I collapsed once seeing a record with a fag burn on it...

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Once, I did that with a record to a well known and as far as I've read here on SS a person with a "pedigree". I did think so also. That supposedly DJ with a "good" reputation was the first to play it on the Northern scene and it made it's buzz then (pre-internet days) that it even made Butch asking me to trade it from me. It was then known by only few collectors. Every time that DJ/dealer guy and me had to meet, he did "forgot about it" home. He even proposed me nice records to trade out of his own collection. But I always turned the trades down since all I wanted was my record back. Now that DJ still has my record and he pretends that we did trade it. That is a never ! That "good" reputation person is just such a liar. Now I can imagine the "hire" thing happening otherwise at times. Or at least at times. Not talking about the real mischiefs (broken stolen lost...) and the fact that an insurance never covers the full value of a very relative value based on a valuation system that is very speculative on top gonna make any issues very tricky to work out right. And then, not talking about the wolves in sheep clothing that will rush in this "golden" opportunity. Spin what you have and the reward of a very long want that took all that time to own is the biggest prize you will get. IMHO

Scandalous. I hope you get your record back. Readers be warned, lending records can seriously jeopardise your friendships.

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I still like the idea. Rather than listening to Frankie Beverly and the Butler's for the Nth time in the evening and probably 4 or 5 times over the weekend we could get some crackin alternatives from Jeanette Williams, Bessie Jones or Loretta Williams.

The idea of hiring vinyl might brighten up the scene; a lot of the venues I attend have DJ's playing sets that are too predictable (top 50 NS tunes) to the point of being teeth grindingly boring; I can think of a few semi big name DJ's in that category. Perhaps those DJ's might be scared of not being invited behind the decks and become defensive of their status; thus they would resist the idea of hiring vinyl. 

You need to change the venues you go to  :lol:

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Don't think you'd get your money back though. Probably just a credit note.

 

Don't think they can. Leagally under the distance selling rules, the buyer is allowed to return a purchase (even for old items), for a full refund even if there is nothing wrong with the merchandise.

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Don't think they can. Leagally under the distance selling rules, the buyer is allowed to return a purchase (even for old items), for a full refund even if there is nothing wrong with the merchandise.

 

But knowing JM,he'd have the micrometer out for changes in groove width,and microscope looking for signs of play.!! :)

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Can we swap other things? I don't have much money or any big rarities to swap, but I'll let you have my missus for a Mello Souls and a Sandy Golden...

 

 

 

 

No? Oh alright then, a VG copy of The Snake? :(

Edited by Matt Male

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I'd pay £10 to hire a Del-larks orig.I'm doing a wedding soon,so only want the best.

Weddings are exempt from o.v.o ,so the boot is kosher ,especially if it's a Jewish wedding ,which knowing you it must be :wicked:

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