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Dayo

Uk Issues - Who Bought 'em On Release?

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Just curious....

 

I'm thinking about iconic early NS favourites, Wheel spins like The Incredibles, The Invitations and The Saphires....  Major Lance Investigate, Dean Parrish Determination et al.  Get the picture?

 

Now the point is, that I've seen plenty of demos and issues on all these titles.  I can understand that demos find their way into circulation from DJ's, local newspaper reviewers, record company staff and so on, but how come there are so many issues around?  That says to me that some incredibley tatseful people actually bought these UK classics - and many more - when they were issued - or were lucky enough to get them on back order, even after the'd been deleted.

 

But the point is, I've never met anyone who started collecting rare soul before about '69.  Ok, maybe Dave Godin, but he was, well...  Dave Godin!

 

So who bought all these classics at the time?  Anyone here?  Anyone even know anyone?  How did so many UK issues get out there?

Edited by Dayo

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I bought a collection of a guy from down south once, Surrey I think, he bought everything on release and I had off him things like Rufus Lumley on Stateside, Kelly Brothers on Sue etc, he said he used to get his local record shop to order him anything that might be soul, be it because of the label or the artist, so he was ordering them in blind and if he liked them, he bought them.  Also Ska things like Guns Fever.

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Big Bob Knight is responsible for many of these records. in the late 60s he was running 7 discos at the same time in the northants area. he had 5 boxes of records and when a soul record he wanted came out he would buy 5 copies ,one for each box. Soon adds up.

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Taffy will remember the day the local butchers assistant walked into our local record shop in Letchworth and dumped 3 or 4 boxes full of 45s on the table and asked how much for the lot. First few we saw on top were all red and white demos and included Rufus Lumley; Hogay Lands; Gene McDaniels and that was just what was visible. Turned out every box was crammed with demos and issues of all the tasty British soul releases and nice rare Beat stuff too. The shop were offering to put them out at 25p a pop if I remember right until one of our lot let the cat out the bag as he wanted one of the 45s badly and offered them whatever they wanted for it! KNOB!!!!! Records taken straight back off the counter and they auctioned them off. I remember all the local Letchworth soul boys having agreements amongst themselves as to who was going to get what and so not to bid on those to keep price low. Glory mad heady days 

Edited by TheBigO

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In the early 80s I bought an almost complete set of Motown Oriole and Stateside releases.

These came from a guy that had been in the navy from school (1962-63 from memory).

At the point I knew him he was collecting Todd Rungren material.

However as a youth he had an order at (I think) the local Woolworths for any Motown releases.

Can't recall how he was an early fan of the us labels.

As he was away for spells it was the only way he could ensure getting what he wanted upon his return to home.

No lps or eps though.

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Just curious....

 

I'm thinking about iconic early NS favourites, Wheel spins like The Incredibles, The Invitations and The Saphires....  Major Lance Investigate, Dean Parrish Determination et al.  Get the picture?

 

Now the point is, that I've seen plenty of demos and issues on all these titles.  I can understand that demos find their way into circulation from DJ's, local newspaper reviewers, record company staff and so on, but how come there are so many issues around?  That says to me that some incredibley tatseful people actually bought these UK classics - and many more - when they were issued - or were lucky enough to get them on back order, even after the'd been deleted.

 

But the point is, I've never met anyone who started collecting rare soul before about '69.  Ok, maybe Dave Godin, but he was, well...  Dave Godin!

 

So who bought all these classics at the time?  Anyone here?  Anyone even know anyone?  How did so many UK issues get out there?

I guess it depended on how old you were in the 60s and how soon at that age you realised you liked R&B / Soul

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Apart from the folk that bought them when on catalogue, a lot surfaced in the late 60s / early 70s as deletions, overstock, warehouse clear outs etc. Phil Lynskey from Horbury near Wakefield  who ran a list called Soul House asked a record shop in North London around 1975 what stock they had out back and he was presented with about a dozen unsold Bill Black, Little Queenie. The Coop on Deansgate Manchester outed scores of classics around '69.

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I remember during the mid 60s the older lads were pre-ordering R&b,soul etc on the relevant labels, they knew what labels were producing this stuff and ordered every record that was due to be released on that label in advance. Obviously not all releases were in the category they preferred but spending money on a single was cheap as these boys were earning good money at that time, they must have had some fantastic music. Later towards 68/69 when I was earning decent wages I went to Selectadisc (I think) in Leicester and pre-ordered the reggae stuff I wanted and it was there within a week.

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I read once that Oriole had a "standing order" to supply Ringo Starr with a copy of all new releases. I think it was driven by the label owner who had got wind that the Beatles were interested in R&B and the Motown sound.

 

Heaven knows whether he kept them but I like to think he's got a record box somewhere with a complete run of Oriole releases in Mint condition. :):yes:

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…and a lot never got sold….Remember in the late 70s visiting a shop in Maidstone full of 60s singles (not all soul by any stretch). But a lot of what was pressed just sat on shelves for years. And there were plenty of shops like that scattered around the UK.

Edited by Steve G

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Apart from the folk that bought them when on catalogue, a lot surfaced in the late 60s / early 70s as deletions, overstock, warehouse clear outs etc. Phil Lynskey from Horbury near Wakefield  who ran a list called Soul House asked a record shop in North London around 1975 what stock they had out back and he was presented with about a dozen unsold Bill Black, Little Queenie. The Coop on Deansgate Manchester outed scores of classics around '69.

 

I hit London with Phil in the early 70s and we found that GREAT electrical shop in Brick Lane which was one that ordered everything. He got a Carl Douglas on U.A. before I thought to ask for it......... :(

 

Ian D  :D

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A lot of record shops back in the day would order a copy of just about everything released,

 

I'm sure a few years ago one of the female members on here said that the "index cards" for every Stateside release still exist and show how many of each release was sold. I don't know what level of detail is on the cards but it seemed as if she knew where these cards are located and had seen them herself. It could be that they are somewhere in the EMI archive or something like that.

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Remember the weekly  release sheet on shiny paper that featured the top 40? the bubbling unders and new releases different colour each week as Pete mentioned we would scour throught it ordering things on Motown Stax Atlantic and any other lable or artist that we knew had soulful connections, record shops featured booths that let you listen to your order first before buying (could only afford one 45 a week) so you could choose your favourite.

 Hearing new soul releases on the radio or at discos was very difficult.

Most radio station record libraries had issues as well as demos my Garnett Mimms Looking for You came from the BBC libarary as an issue.

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…and a lot never got sold….Remember in the late 70s visiting a shop in Maidstone full of 60s singles (not all soul by any stretch). But a lot of what was pressed just sat on shelves for years. And there were plenty of shops like that scattered around the UK.

 

I can testify to Maidstone's coffers, back in the mid 70's the Tuesday market had a stall with lots of British stuff on, many in company sleeves. 

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I hit London with Phil in the early 70s and we found that GREAT electrical shop in Brick Lane which was one that ordered everything. He got a Carl Douglas on U.A. before I thought to ask for it......... :(

 

Ian D  :D

What happened to Phil Ian? I knew him from when my parents lived in Ossett, he had a passion for Punk when it first surfaced.

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I guess what I've learned from this thread is that some record shops pre-ordered singles blind just to keep in stock.  I would imagine that HMV in Oxford Street probably had some kind of a duty to stock all the EMI stuff.  Ooooh - there's drool on my keyboard now!

 

When I worked in a Worcester record shop in 1974 the focus was almost entirely on the top 30 and only new releases by very well established artists would get ordered and stocked before they reached the charts.  The approach was conservative, but I guess things were different in the sixties.  

 

Cue: "passage of time" harp sound effects.....

 

Hmmm.... Major Lance has a new single - we sold a few of that Um, Um, Um record.... let's stock a couple just in case.... ok... "Investigate" times three.  Now, who on earth is this Hoagy Lands chap?  Hoagy Carmichael is very good.....  

 

Can it really have been like that?  

 

And I wish some of the first generation R&B/Soul collectors would post on here.  I'd love to know more about the early collecting scene, how much records went for and so on.

Edited by Dayo

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Seem to remember that Ian Levine had a 'standing order' at his local record shop for all the tamla releases. He may have also have orders for other labels but I can't remember. Perhaps someone can ask him?

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My old mate Tony Banks had a UK issue& demo of everything more or less. Also a U.S. Copy in most cases. He was a Mecca DJ so was obviously on the mailing lists of record companies. Does that count as probably didn't physically go to the shop and buy them. I do recall him having a full set of TMG's issues and most of the demos 501-1000. Whether he bought the early stuff or had it sent by record companies I know not but don't often recall him buying UK stuff from dealers as he had them already!

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I remember tapping up the local Mecca manager about 1973/74.

I got quite a lot of  President & Jayboy demos plus loads of other early 70's

soul stuff.

When I asked him where all the older stuff was he said he sent thousands

to the local hospital radio. The next day I was up there, only to be told 

"Most of the stuff we got from the Mecca was by people we had never heard of so

we binned most of it"  :dash2:  :dash2: 

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Remember the weekly  release sheet on shiny paper that featured the top 40? the bubbling unders and new releases different colour each week as Pete mentioned we would scour throught it ordering things on Motown Stax Atlantic and any other lable or artist that we knew had soulful connections, record shops featured booths that let you listen to your order first before buying (could only afford one 45 a week) so you could choose your favourite.

 Hearing new soul releases on the radio or at discos was very difficult.

Most radio station record libraries had issues as well as demos my Garnett Mimms Looking for You came from the BBC libarary as an issue.

You mean these?

 

Kev

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post-3768-0-05115300-1430424510_thumb.jp

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…and a lot never got sold….Remember in the late 70s visiting a shop in Maidstone full of 60s singles (not all soul by any stretch). But a lot of what was pressed just sat on shelves for years. And there were plenty of shops like that scattered around the UK.

They then got forwarded to the bargain basement type shops (charity?) which were scourged upon and then reinvention of a new sound, et al Bok to Bak (great record BTW)

 

Only my Op

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You mean these?

 

Kev

You've still got one? I can remember ordering a record, It arrives, I've not liked it enough to buy and two weeks later its in the bargain box at 25p or 5 for a pound :wicked:

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You mean these?

 

Kev

You got many of these Kev?

A while ago, I was trying to collect these and was in the throws of acquiring everything Brian Rae had of these, which was pretty much all of them. But he ended up donating them to some kind of British Music Library in London. Dratt and double dratt I thought to myself.

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Most of the classic Northern UK released stuff was played on release in a handful of clubs The Wheel,Mojo,Nite Owl,etc.

DJ's such as Roger Eagle, Guy Stevens,Pete Stringfellow plus some club goers and collectors  at the time would have bought them.

Some clubs had their own collections with accounts at local record shops that the resident  DJ's would select from the new release list each week.

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Most of the classic Northern UK released stuff was played on release in a handful of clubs The Wheel,Mojo,Nite Owl,etc.

DJ's such as Roger Eagle, Guy Stevens,Pete Stringfellow plus some club goers and collectors  at the time would have bought them.

Some clubs had their own collections with accounts at local record shops that the resident  DJ's would select from the new release list each week.

 

I'm not sure it would just be the well known 'handful of clubs' in the 60s. My sister (circa 1968) knew about tunes like the Inviatations 'What's Wrong With Me Baby', Little Hank 'Mr Bang Bang Man', Rufus Lumley 'I'm Standing' and that was from going to a club where they played nothing but soul and Motown in a small town near Aberdeen!

 

I was very confused when I got into it later and she'd say 'oh we used to dance to this' when I was buying something like 'Can't Satisfy' by the Impressions. To her it was just groovy dancing music for 60s chicks - man.

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You got many of these Kev?

A while ago, I was trying to collect these and was in the throws of acquiring everything Brian Rae had of these, which was pretty much all of them. But he ended up donating them to some kind of British Music Library in London. Dratt and double dratt I thought to myself.

I wish Dennis,

I had hundreds and my mum threw them out when I left home. Still got all my Blues & Soul mags though.

 

Kev

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I wish Dennis,

I had hundreds and my mum threw them out when I left home. Still got all my Blues & Soul mags though.

 

Kev

At least there's a silver lining  :thumbsup:

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As a mod in the 60ts I would hear records in the clubs around Reading then buy them at our local record shop, in a lot of cases this involved getting them to order them in. Mostly these were thing's referred to now as club soul but also included Darrell Banks - open the door, Billy Butler - Right track, Major Lance - Ain't no soul, Gospel Classics - More love, Charlie Rich - Love is after  me, Doris Troy - I'll do anything . I also bought a copy of Soul Bros. Six, blind ,from a bargain bin just because it was on red Atlantic I also bought a copy of Garnett Mimms - Looking for you but I bought for the other side back then.

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A lot of stuff wasn't deleted til years later too so it was possible to buy Darrell Banks Clifford Curry The Tams The Showmen etc in HMV etc a few years after their original release date.

Edited by PeteDillon

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Our local club in the 60's had an extensive library, most of the soul releases, however over the years it got split up or raided....when they refitted to go more "upmarket" in 1967 I rescued the Sue white label LP from beneath a pile of builders rubble! As DJ's started to use their own 45's the rest were stuck in a cupboard, so when I heard P P Arnold at the Torch in 1973 I had a furtle through the following night, and found it there! I've ended up with their copy of The Ikettes - "What'cha gonna do" on London, various Red Atlantics etc. as well...

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My first experience of soul music being played out was The 66 Club in West Kirby, Wirral in 1969 when I was 16yrs old. Stuff like Flamingos Boogaloo Party, Roy Head, Jnr Walker Pucker up Buttercu. Wish I knew where the dj's collection ended up.My sister (4yrs older) was going out and dancing to early Motown, Geno Washington, Otis Redding, Oscar Toney Jnr etc when she was 16

Kev

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Confession time...my big sister bought the Invitations on Stateside as a new release - now what stupid 16 year old would "liberate" it in order to buy a flagon of Cider? :dash2:  :dash2: - not one of my better moves! She never lets me forget it every time I play my Dynovoice demo, and has only just given up waiting and bought herself a replacement Stateside issue 47 years later!

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