Please tell me that everyone can see that this is a recent 10 quid reissue with a photocopied label stuck over the top of it!

how can there be bidders on this,and up to this price! And look at the bloody condition of it...haha

honest to god I give up! Almost as shocking as Cajun hart doing £760

Timi Yuro - It'll never be over for me - on Liberty - VGC

Edited April 25, 20169 yr by dobber

I'm willing to bet that either frankie & Johnny or gene mcdaniels is on the bside!

Looks like Lovejoy has properly been at work on that with some sandpaper, and some nice staining on the label. The wee yellow stickers and original company bag are a nice touch, too. Chancer...

It isn't the correct Company bag for that period.   That one is for EMI distributed UK Liberty (earlier).

Think Liberty was Polygram?? distributed at this point.  Anyway diffo bag.

So nothing is correct.   Money in the bank on this one.

This is another joke

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Willie-Tee-You-Gonna-Pay-Some-Dues-Aint-That-True-Baby-Bonatemp-Soul-North/121870513417?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36383%26meid%3D516683a8f83c4b86b445378cd3aa4ac3%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D252364194021

£4000 buy it now, in G condition with a 10mm crack !]

I know it's great, and rare, but four grand !

https://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=45-heaven

 

Actually was looking at another 45 on ebay and thought "I recognise that seller name" but upon checking, the Timi Yuro seller has just changed their username to "45-heaven" a few days ago, no doubt to look like they're an established soul dealer. Very naughty indeed. And bids up to £280 already...

Surely this Timi Yuro should be reported to Ebay? It looks like every effort has been made to pass this off as real. OK, you'd have to be a dummy to fall for it, but just because you're a dummy doesn't mean you deserve to be ripped off. I haven't witnessed blatant criminality like this since the last time the BHS share dividend was announced...

Interesting that The Timi Yuro dealer's only view of the record OUTSIDE  the sleeve is too small (doesn't expand to larger), and the record is on a slant, deliberately to make sure no one can see the outside edge of the label, so they can't see it was a new hand pasting job, with a not-so-perfect circle-cut, placing, and has a thickness of a photocopy paper, rather than the normal, thinner label paper.

Has anyone actually messaged the seller with this? A bit of further self-incrimination might be interesting.

I emailed him/her asking if this was an original.

He/she replied he/she was selling for a friend whose relative ( the owner) had died. Said he/she was born in 1995 and didn't know anything about records original or otherwise but would include a prepaid return envelope if the buyer wasn't happy and wanted to return it!!

Perhaps someone else can follow this up with the seller?

On 26 April 2016 at 10:58, JulianB said:

I emailed him/her asking if this was an original.

He/she replied he/she was selling for a friend whose relative ( the owner) had died. Said he/she was born in 1995 and didn't know anything about records original or otherwise but would include a prepaid return envelope if the buyer wasn't happy and wanted to return it!!

Perhaps someone else can follow this up with the seller?

I had exactly the same response Julian 

 

On 4/26/2016 at 09:38, cover-up said:

https://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=45-heaven

 

Actually was looking at another 45 on ebay and thought "I recognise that seller name" but upon checking, the Timi Yuro seller has just changed their username to "45-heaven" a few days ago, no doubt to look like they're an established soul dealer. Very naughty indeed. And bids up to £280 already...

That's unfortunate. 45Heaven is a seller on discogs - a good seller too.

Peter

Asked about the flip-side, got this response.

       Hello, thank you for your email. the other side is called "as long as there is you"
       Best wishes
       Willow

Does that tell anyone anything?

Edited April 27, 20169 yr by John Moffatt

I'm relatively new to collecting and I know this will open me up to ridicule but can somebody tell me how and where you can tell this is a re-issue with stuck on labels. I do rely on the knowledgeable amongst you and follow the various threads on boots, etc., but there are 6 bidders.  Had a look on discogs (1 for sale at £1750), has the same sides whereas the re-issues have different artists, don't they?

I know the pictures are quite grainy but I would appreciate some guidance - any help appreciated. Please note that I don't want to buy the record. To be honest my only guide here is that it is currently too cheap and the person selling it has only been going a short while with only 71 sales (100% though).

Edited April 27, 20169 yr by yargevets

34 minutes ago, yargevets said:

I'm relatively new to collecting and I know this will open me up to ridicule but can somebody tell me how and where you can tell this is a re-issue with stuck on labels. I do rely on the knowledgeable amongst you and follow the various threads on boots, etc., but there are 6 bidders.  Had a look on discogs (1 for sale at £1750), has the same sides whereas the re-issues have different artists, don't they?

I know the pictures are quite grainy but I would appreciate some guidance - any help appreciated. Please note that I don't want to buy the record. To be honest my only guide here is that it is currently too cheap and the person selling it has only been going a short while with only 71 sales (100% though).

The thing that gives it away for me is the centre hole, as far as I know the original came with a push out centre ( I know some Liberty issues came with a solid, small hole centre but I don't think the Timi Yuro did) the hole is perfectly round with no evidence of the push out centre having been removed.

You can tell its not original it as no middle for starters ( IF IT HAD BEEN DINKED OR CENTRE KNOCKED OUT ) where are dink marks or centre marks where the middle as been removed it was Uk only release so would have had centre also ask for the machine stamped matrix number or just blatantly tell them who you trying to con

 

 

1 hour ago, yargevets said:

I'm relatively new to collecting and I know this will open me up to ridicule but can somebody tell me how and where you can tell this is a re-issue with stuck on labels. I do rely on the knowledgeable amongst you and follow the various threads on boots, etc., but there are 6 bidders.  Had a look on discogs (1 for sale at £1750), has the same sides whereas the re-issues have different artists, don't they?

I know the pictures are quite grainy but I would appreciate some guidance - any help appreciated. Please note that I don't want to buy the record. To be honest my only guide here is that it is currently too cheap and the person selling it has only been going a short while with only 71 sales (100% though).

Also there are no anti slip grooves around the outside of the label as found on British releases by major labels.

1 hour ago, britishbarry said:

The thing that gives it away for me is the centre hole, as far as I know the original came with a push out centre ( I know some Liberty issues came with a solid, small hole centre but I don't think the Timi Yuro did) the hole is perfectly round with no evidence of the push out centre having been removed.

Believe it or not there is at least 1 solid centre timi yuro in existence! Very rat indeed,but yeah your right regarding the 4 prong centre!

THIS IS TO PETER99  - JUST TO GET SOME FACTS RIGHT   45-HEAVEN on ebay is NOT the 45HEAVEN on discogs . 45HEAVEN on discogs is Barrie Waddington from Lancashire and on EBAY sells under  a45heaven  not 45-HEAVEN ( THIS GUY IS FROM LONDON ) how somebody can jump to conclusions without the relevant facts !!!!!!!!!!! and ruin somebody's fantastic reputation as a soul dealer

7 minutes ago, undergroundman said:

THIS IS TO PETER99  - JUST TO GET SOME FACTS RIGHT   45-HEAVEN on ebay is NOT the 45HEAVEN on discogs . 45HEAVEN on discogs is Barrie Waddington from Lancashire and on EBAY sells under  a45heaven  not 45-HEAVEN ( THIS GUY IS FROM LONDON ) how somebody can jump to conclusions without the relevant facts !!!!!!!!!!! and ruin somebody's fantastic reputation as a soul dealer

I think most of us on here know that the seller isn't barrie waddington (45heaven) I would have been surprised if it was....I think peter99 wasn't being funny

or jumping to conclusions, so cant see any reputations being ruined from his post...the only loser on this thread is the pratt that buys that 45!!!!!

12 hours ago, undergroundman said:

THIS IS TO PETER99  - JUST TO GET SOME FACTS RIGHT   45-HEAVEN on ebay is NOT the 45HEAVEN on discogs . 45HEAVEN on discogs is Barrie Waddington from Lancashire and on EBAY sells under  a45heaven  not 45-HEAVEN ( THIS GUY IS FROM LONDON ) how somebody can jump to conclusions without the relevant facts !!!!!!!!!!! and ruin somebody's fantastic reputation as a soul dealer

Peter99 was saying that it isn't Barrie , he said he's a good seller and it was shame that matey has used a similar name mate , that's all 

Edited April 28, 20169 yr by SWIFTY

 The similar names 45Heaven and 45-Heaven. Obviously designed to deceive. 

Steve

Yes Steve,  thats why I clarified the situation -  thank you

1 hour ago, undergroundman said:

THIS IS TO PETER99  - JUST TO GET SOME FACTS RIGHT   45-HEAVEN on ebay is NOT the 45HEAVEN on discogs . 45HEAVEN on discogs is Barrie Waddington from Lancashire and on EBAY sells under  a45heaven  not 45-HEAVEN ( THIS GUY IS FROM LONDON ) how somebody can jump to conclusions without the relevant facts !!!!!!!!!!! and ruin somebody's fantastic reputation as a soul dealer

Less of the attitude big boy and engage your brain before you start shooting your mouth off. 

I posted to make the point that the ebay seller had created a seller name similar to 45Heaven on discogs - which is Barrie. I have bought from Barrie quite a few times and as my post also stated he is a good seller. Now, do you want to go and edit your ill conceived post.

Peter

14 minutes ago, undergroundman said:

Yes Steve,  thats why I clarified the situation -  thank you

It didn't need any clarification from you. But, I probably need any apology from you.

too many pillocks with no knowledge throwing money at records makes them easy pickings for the dodgy ebay sellers..i find it harder and harder to sympathise with them

3 hours ago, undergroundman said:

THIS IS TO PETER99  - JUST TO GET SOME FACTS RIGHT   45-HEAVEN on ebay is NOT the 45HEAVEN on discogs . 45HEAVEN on discogs is Barrie Waddington from Lancashire and on EBAY sells under  a45heaven  not 45-HEAVEN ( THIS GUY IS FROM LONDON ) how somebody can jump to conclusions without the relevant facts !!!!!!!!!!! and ruin somebody's fantastic reputation as a soul dealer

Blimey mate, I think you have completely misconstrued Peter99's post. It seemed to me that he was speaking up for Barry, saying it was unfortunate this bandit had chosen a similar sales name, not having a dig at all.

I've reported it to ebay, and send a message to the seller saying that they are committing fraud by trying to pass it off as an original without a disclaimer, so let's see what happens.

17 hours ago, John Moffatt said:

Asked about the flip-side, got this response.

       Hello, thank you for your email. the other side is called "as long as there is you"
       Best wishes
       Willow

Does that tell anyone anything?

Obviously what it's 'called' and what it plays are likely to be two different answers in this case.

15 hours ago, dobber said:

Believe it or not there is at least 1 solid centre timi yuro in existence! Very rat indeed,but yeah your right regarding the 4 prong centre!

Actually, the only pronged centres I've seen on these (including the one I owned) are 3-prong.  I guess the 4-prong would be quite rare, like the solid centre issue.

The first is the solid centre (flipside!)  UK release.

The second is the 3 pronged centre UK release.

 

Edited April 28, 20169 yr by sunnysoul

As noted the sandpapering and sticker effects are almost worth some props. I'd of added little plastic nodules super glued on to the inside rim to make it look like the centre had been popped out. Perhaps a bullshit signature on it too: "To Bob, Enjoy this original copy of my rarest single. Love Timi xxx (1969)"

We should have a comp to see who can make the most convincing fake!

I like the way he's added it into a believeable batch of garden British 45s as well... as though he's chanced upon it in the dude's record box. The layers of subterfuge are excellent.

Edited April 28, 20169 yr by corbett80

13 minutes ago, corbett80 said:

I like the way he's added it into a believeable batch of garden British 45s as well... as though he's chanced upon it in the dude's record box. The layers of subterfuge are excellent.

Is that just a cynic's eye view Joel? 

Perhaps when the buyer recieves it, it'll be wrapped with a page of (photocopied) newspaper from 1969...

 

35 minutes ago, corbett80 said:

I like the way he's added it into a believeable batch of garden British 45s as well... as though he's chanced upon it in the dude's record box. The layers of subterfuge are excellent.

If I were cynical, I might even say that the putting "

I AM SELLING ALL THESE RECORDS FOR A FRIEND WHOSE RELATIVE HAS DIED. HE WANTS THEM ALL TO BE AUCTIONED" in the description is a bit like saying, "Ooh look I found these and I have no idea what they are", so I'm off the hook.

Hi, I am really annoyed with this guy on Ebay selling this boot of timi yuro! i messaged him last night to inform him he has caused a bit of a debate regarding  his record sale on ebay, that basically he is hood winking (ripping off) all the bidders (soul fans, collectors, music lovers) alike by NOT coming clean with his description... I  collect soul records, just like thousands of us out there!! some of us are so called Experts but unfortunately many of us are not.. Been ripped off in the past many times when descriptions are not as they should be!! its F......... frustrating at the best of times.

As we all know this BIG TICKET TUNES carry the usual BIG PRICE TAG, and we all love a clean ORIGINAL copy for  THE RIGHT price....

I also questioned him/her over ..  are you 45 HEAVEN WHO SELLS RECORDS ON DISCOGS ???

HE DID NOT COMMENT....

PS i might  bid £10,000 last minute, if Ebay dont act..... (just a thought) Dave 

I have also advised him of the concerns, and suggested he add a comment about the record's (possible ) lack of authenticity. I'll see what comes back.

 

I've never noticed anything like it before, but in the bar that is usually occupied by the seller's feedback score it says "5 inquiries" alongside the feedback score, I wonder if that means just questions or maybe complaints?   

8 hours ago, Gene-R said:

Actually, the only pronged centres I've seen on these (including the one I owned) are 3-prong.  I guess the 4-prong would be quite rare, like the solid centre issue.

Sorry mate,I meant 3 prong,not four.

I notice he mentions in the description that there is crackle,so that would mean he or she is able to play it,maybe they could play the bside,I'm willing to bet he or she will hear a male song..gene mcdaniels walk with a winner,or Frankie & Johnny I'll hold you!

 

This is the latest message to her after getting the reply below: (sorry for repeated paragraph, laptop won't do as it's told, like the seller)

Willow,
what you are failing to see is that by offering a record that is sought after by many that appears to be on the correct label without saying that it's original implies that it is an original. Whether you were born in 1995 or not has no consequence, the record is not an original and shouldn't be passed off as one. It has clearly been distressed to appear old, and has photocopied labels to deceive, so in it's description it should inform the bidders that it's not an original. The record is worth about £10, so you should do the honest thing and either end the listing early or edit it to say that it's a bootleg with photocopied labels, it's a matter of honesty.
Bytheway, not knowing anything about vinyl and selling under a name like 45-heaven, clearly a ruse to try and be linked with a reputable record dealer, is risible.

 

Dear 45-heaven,

Willow,
what you are failing to see is that by offering a record that is sought after by many that appears to be on the correct label without saying that it's original implies that it is an original. Whether you were born in 1995 or not has no consequence, the record is not an original and shouldn't be passed off as one. It has clearly been distressed to appear old, and has photocopied labels to deceive, so in it's description it should inform the bidders that it's not an original. The record is worth about £10, so you should do the honest thing and either end the listing early or edit it to say that it's a bootleg with photocopied labels, it's a matter of honesty.
Bytheway, not knowing anything about vinyl and selling under a name like 45-heaven, clearly a ruse to try and be linked with a reputable record dealer, is risible.

 

YOU:

Hello, thank you for your email. I am selling all the records on my page for a friend whose relative has died. I am afraid I do not know anything about vinyl records (original or otherwise) I was not born until 1995. I have not written on the description that it is original. Sorry I cannot be of more help. I will tell the buyer your concerns and include a reply paid envelope when I post this record so the buyer can return it for a full refund if s/he is not happy with it. Both my friend and myself are amazed at the amount of the bids on this record. One can download the song from youtube by using the youtube to mp3 website for FREE.
Best wishes
Willow

Edited April 28, 20169 yr by TattooDave

Hurrah, she's added something to the listing in the way of a disclaimer, let's now hope that the bidders retract their bids wholesale!!

Glad to see that Sunnysoul could back up the theory of the solid centre , not sure if it was once his , but as many people know it is now mine and has been for a while, I obviously read these threads as the owner of this treasured gem, and have gone back many of times and examined this record, obviously when the seed of doubt is planted . but now once and for all I am sure of its authenticity. I'm not the best at photos but here are a few , and for those that do not see what I see , here is my description.

Side 1  AS LONG AS THERE IS YOU (Matrix) LBF 15182 B//2 v 420   11

Side 2 IT'LL NEVER BE OVER FOR ME (Matrix)  LBF 15182 B//2v420  111

You will see on the photos that a some time there was something printed on side 2 , I can clearly see above the title letters ORD which I believe are the remains of the word RECORD some of the other letters can be made out , but I'm not sure what was the original print, you make up your own mind. someone has wrote on it S5709 ?and PHB ?  my theory is that this is as near to a DEMO as could possibly be pressed , taking on board that this record had already been released on an album in the USA??? not sure if there are any cases of a record being released in one country , then being put out on a DEMO in another at a later date , taking on board that liberty records was now in the hands of another owner, when this was released in the UK.

Perhaps some of the far more educated can now shine some more light on this,

Value :- well some might say £40 others might say £1500, obviously that's down to the market.

Value :- of the only solid centre copy pressed for demo reasons , or the only one known of its kind , some would say , the same as the others , (but its not is it) you find me another, I do not know of one ,or have never seen a picture of one .

IT'LL NEVER BE OVER FOR ME,  anyone who meets me will be free to have a look at this copy , anytime I have been asked to do a spot it is with me, or at our own venues, it is normally with me , feel free, and KTF    

 CHEERS WOZA

 

Forgot to mention you will also see that the centre does not come all the way out to the liberty logo as the UK issue nearly do

I see that most of the bidders have quite high feedback numbers, not saying that they are all for 45s....but if they are there must be some great

collections out there....

It appears the messages have had their effect. The sale listing has an additional message.

Not sure why the advert informs us a relative of a friend has died? Why can't the friend just consign the records to a seller who markets them with an adequate description? Always thought there was more money to be made copying paintings or photocopying banknotes...

'I don't know if it's a real gun or not officer, i'm only 20'

I emailed and asked for the matrix number this is the reply I recived!,,,,,,

New message from: 45-heaven (71)

Hello. I have amended the description. I do not know what a matrix is sorry. Best wishes

I know nothing about this record but for some reason have listed it as the b side, surely you would list it as the a side if you knew nothing about it.unless the dead relative of a friend told them on their death bed(very strange)

makes you wonder why they are called "45-heaven".......................................selling records maybe...................

next week will change ebay name to.................?