Manship is flogging an acetate this week I see.

What a truly great soul record, can't believe it never got a release in the U.S.

Few questions about this.

Would it have been one of these acetates that Dickie S was spinning at Wigan then as I presume his connections to RCA lead him to it?

Was it originally recorded for RCA & does anyone know the whereabouts the original masters?

Was just wondering.

Aid.

Manship is flogging an acetate this week I see.

What a truly great soul record, can't believe it never got a release in the U.S.

Few questions about this.

Would it have been one of these acetates that Dickie S was spinning at Wigan then as I presume his connections to RCA lead him to it?

Was it originally recorded for RCA & does anyone know the whereabouts the original masters?

Was just wondering.

Aid.

Can't answer your questions Aid - but I agree it's a mighty fine track

Edited September 4, 201212 yr by Peter99

John Anderson got it along with loads of others (Hanky Panky, Spaceland etc) first time he made contact with Popcorn Wylie

John didn't get an RCA acetate though, just unreleased material. Presume this was done just prior to the grapevine press?

John didn't get an RCA acetate though, just unreleased material. Presume this was done just prior to the grapevine press?

Yes the RCA acetates are Grapevine advance copies

Agreed - brilliant record - always very "muddy" in the mix - don't think it was the finished article.

Similarly with the Eddie Holman tracks - work in progress - but great also !!!

Agreed - brilliant record - always very "muddy" in the mix - don't think it was the finished article.

Similarly with the Eddie Holman tracks - work in progress - but great also !!!

It is slighty muddy,but the instru on the flip is crystal.All time fave of mine...now,where's the male vocal lurking?

Fantastic record, I blooming well love it! I played it a while back at a local event and it completely cleared the floor....all except for one chap who danced his *rse off to it completely on his own in the middle of the huge dance floor....When the record ended he clapped so furiously, I honestly think it was a 'protest clap' at everyone who didn't dance or appreciate it.....

.....Or I could be talking b*llocks.....

...Had to be there really, I know what I mean.

All the best,

Len

Edited September 4, 201212 yr by LEN

Can't answer your questions Aid - but I agree it's a mighty fine track

Never eve,evr.ever tire of this awesome recording!!! it always leaves me speechless!! it is that buddy good -Detroit brilliance and then some [what year was it originally recorded]].....first remember hearing it via R.Searling [Pre RCA/ Grapevine release]- late 70s????

Betty Boo rules the waves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEFo25alcnE

ktf

tfk

Edited September 4, 201212 yr by tfk

As Pete says, John at Soul Bowl, although not necessarily first contact, he got pretty much all the masters off Popcorn, about the same time as as he got the "i am Nothing instr" from a similar batch. I remember well the photos of John and Popcorn on the post holding up the wall of John's barn.... a six foot something Scottish guy with a huge afro with a smallish black guy, (tooke me ages before I put two and two together)... and he used to to take the piss out of me saying I looked like George Michael

Steve

Fabulous record that goes down well at the 100 Club. It isn't the tape that's muddy as much as a truly awful EQ on the Grapevine single. Knob twiddling improves this one no end.

Ady

Seem to recall this being massive at Wigan yet hasn't been picked up by the 'same old' scene....... thankfully.

Very much in agreement with the views echoed regarding Betty Boo, "Say it isn't so"...Great track

Wasn't "Say It Isn't So" just a production that Popcorn hadn't succeeded in placing with a label? It just fell through the cracks. He hadn't had plans to release it on a label of his own, nor was he able to get her a recording contract with a major, or even a decent-sized Soul label. It wasn't really ever slated for release during the '60s at any stage (was it?). As stated above, the RCA demo was only cut for the Grapevine release. I don't remember Wylie placing any record with RCA. As far as I know, from Detroit, only the Pied Piper crew did that.

Seem to recall this being massive at Wigan yet hasn't been picked up by the 'same old' scene....... thankfully.

There's always one

Great track back then and still a great track now. It wasn't originally titled 'Say it Isn't So'or even the longer 'Say It Isn't So Baby' though rather it was called 'Chitter Chatter'.

I'm not sure if it was John A or Richard that changed the title or indeed if it was changed before they got it. Whoever made that decision got it right for sure.

Mind you I think even a song called 'Chitter Chatter' would have made it given its quality.

As Ady says the Grapevine release is poorly mastered the 10 inch acetates that we all heard at Wigan we're better quality.

Edited September 5, 201212 yr by ged parker

Great track back then and still a great track now. It wasn't originally titled 'Say it Isn't So'or even the longer 'Say It Isn't So Baby' though rather it was called 'Chitter Chatter'.

I'm not sure if it was John A or Richard that changed the title or indeed if it was changed before they got it. Whoever made that decision got it right for sure.

Mind you I think even a song called 'Chitter Chatter' would have made it given its quality.

As Ady says the Grapevine release is poorly mastered the 10 inch acetates that we all heard at Wigan we're better quality.

That sounds like an urban myth to me Ged.

One you just made up

That sounds like an urban myth to me Ged.

One you just made up

Which bit?

Wasn't "Say It Isn't So" just a production that Popcorn hadn't succeeded in placing with a label? It just fell through the cracks. He hadn't had plans to release it on a label of his own, nor was he able to get her a recording contract with a major, or even a decent-sized Soul label. It wasn't really ever slated for release during the '60s at any stage (was it?). As stated above, the RCA demo was only cut for the Grapevine release. I don't remember Wylie placing any record with RCA. As far as I know, from Detroit, only the Pied Piper crew did that.

I was going to ask which label was it originally intended for? How common was it to record a track with no particular label in mind?

Is most of the unreleased material unearthed over the years from actual labels? (if that makes sense?)

If you make things up on here you'll very quickly get found out I think.

I've long since lost my notes on this (probably when I left Cape Hill in the mid 90's) but I've 'known' this for years.

I wasn't sure I could 'prove' it without my notes to at least remind me who told me.

But then internet to the rescue.

A BMI Repetoire Search has the following entry:

CHITTER CHATTER

Alternate Titles:SAY IT ISN T SO BABY

BMI Work #208916

Songwriter/Composer Current Affiliation CAE/IPI #

HESTER ANTHONY ASCAP 14038230

WYLIE RICHARD WAYNE BMI 33281409

Publishers

ALA KING MUSIC BMI 363249

Some urban myths are actually true but you're the king of conspiracy theories so you already know that

was told in the day by a very good freind of richard, that there were three takes on the acetate or tape, ? anyone

Which bit?

The title.

But I see below you've provided proof.

Could be fake.

was told in the day by a very good freind of richard, that there were three takes on the acetate or tape, ? anyone

There's certainly 2 or 3 versions of the backing track, with strings, without strings

The title.

But I see below you've provided proof.

Could be fake.

Wonder if it was recorded at the same time as Tingle Tingle?

Sorry if this has been covered, but is there then an original studio / producer type acetate thingie ?

or was something pressed / carved / whatever from a tape ?

If it's the former, does anyone know who has it ?

cheers

pete

Wasn't "Say It Isn't So" just a production that Popcorn hadn't succeeded in placing with a label? It just fell through the cracks. He hadn't had plans to release it on a label of his own, nor was he able to get her a recording contract with a major, or even a decent-sized Soul label. It wasn't really ever slated for release during the '60s at any stage (was it?). As stated above, the RCA demo was only cut for the Grapevine release. I don't remember Wylie placing any record with RCA. As far as I know, from Detroit, only the Pied Piper crew did that.

It would never have been scheduled for release on RCA (USA)... it was purely Richard's connections with RCA (UK) at the time and the fact that he and John had done a deal to release Grapevine via that outlet. I'm sure had it been put out in the States it would have been at least on something like Pameline or at best on Golden World which would have given Betty the most exposure. Why it wasn't we may never know

Steve

Sorry if this has been covered, but is there then an original studio / producer type acetate thingie ?

or was something pressed / carved / whatever from a tape ?

If it's the former, does anyone know who has it ?

cheers

pete

From memory John at Soul Bowl had a master tape rather than an acetate if that helps.

Steve

I was going to ask which label was it originally intended for? How common was it to record a track with no particular label in mind?

Is most of the unreleased material unearthed over the years from actual labels? (if that makes sense?)

Quite common, Dave Hamilton did it throughout his career as he had his own studios and a crew of regular musicians/friends so they would cut on whoever they thought might be a sellable act with a view to placing the recordings when done. There is also the situation of a bigger record company cutting 3 0r 4 tracks at a session and just choosing the best two leaving the others to languish. Ady

Wonder if it was recorded at the same time as Tingle Tingle?

Tingle's by a bloke..

Tingle's by a bloke..

Sorry Pete my attempt at humor.Chitter Chatter,tingle tingle.Heard Tingle out many times Pete - its a woman.!!!

Off topic,wont happen again.

Its probably not adding anything, but I think I can say this record, among at least half a dozen others made me the man I am today!

Thank you Betty.

Like everyone else I love this track - always have done - However, as this particular acetate was done in 79 for the Grapevine release why on earth is it worth anymore or less than an emi disc doing the rounds from 77 when it was first played .....Sorry, I just don't get it, its not like you are buying an acetate pressed in Detroit at the time of the recording, but probably just me looking at the interest shown on it ?

Sorry Pete my attempt at humor.Chitter Chatter,tingle tingle.Heard Tingle out many times Pete - its a woman.!!!

Off topic,wont happen again.

No, it's a bloke I was convinced when I got it, thats why I covered it as Little Carl Carlton. It sounds nothing like Betty Boo. It's a boy, sounds about 11 or 12. I'm playing it now, it's a boy.

The acetate went for £609.

Aid

I had a male version of 'Say it Isn't so' on a tape once from a mate of mine and didn't realise until a while later it was actually him singing (well sort of !) over the instrumental in his bedroom , but it was quite good and fooled a few people .

Think it did the rounds for bit

Swifty

The acetate went for £609.

Aid

Jeezus...

I'm sure I saw one on Ian Clark's list for 300 about a year or two ago?

Like everyone else I love this track - always have done - However, as this particular acetate was done in 79 for the Grapevine release why on earth is it worth anymore or less than an emi disc doing the rounds from 77 when it was first played .....Sorry, I just don't get it, its not like you are buying an acetate pressed in Detroit at the time of the recording, but probably just me looking at the interest shown on it ?

Because 70s emidiscs were actually illegal boots but this was properly licensed and cut proffesionally with all the paperwork required.

The acetate went for £609.

Aid

Was thinking of having a bid on this but that price is ridiculous.

How on earth is that disc worth so much of someone's money?

As far as OVO goes - it's not really any more OVO than a Grapevine 45 f.f.s.

I bet this thread got them all mad to bid on it :lol:

Cheers

Richard

No, it's a bloke I was convinced when I got it, thats why I covered it as Little Carl Carlton. It sounds nothing like Betty Boo. It's a boy, sounds about 11 or 12. I'm playing it now, it's a boy.

Pete,i'm not saying its BB. .I thought this is supposed to be Inez Foxx or someone?

Pete,i'm not saying its BB. .I thought this is supposed to be Inez Foxx or someone?

It says Inez Foxx on the acetate Kitch has.

It says Inez Foxx on the acetate Kitch has.

It does, but that bears practically no resemblence to the other version.

It does, but that bears practically no resemblence to the other version.

I thought it did vocally? Just a better mix?

I thought it did vocally? Just a better mix?

It's had all the life strangled out of it between it being a rough demo and a nearly finished product, I could barely believe it was the same record when I heard it.

Tingle - Jingle, its pants...dont know what all the fuss is about... .

Russ

Tingle - Jingle, its pants...dont know what all the fuss is about... .

Russ

Yeah it's a pants song but that backing track is pure detroit magic

Jeezus...

He wont help you...... He died years ago! Apparently.

Edited September 5, 201212 yr by soulman

I'm sure I saw one on Ian Clark's list for 300 about a year or two ago?

You did Mark, it was on for offers.

Was thinking of having a bid on this but that price is ridiculous.

How on earth is that disc worth so much of someone's money?

As far as OVO goes - it's not really any more OVO than a Grapevine 45 f.f.s.

I bet this thread got them all mad to bid on it :lol:

Cheers

Richard

i agree totally gobsmacked

Its got me thinking whats not been found yet and whats been binned of even better tunes than the likes of this one.