Original Vinyl Only Do..not Quite

[boba]

Best post I have read on this OVO subject for a long time. Couldn't agree more.

from merriam websters

Definition of PROVIDENCE

1

a

often capitalized

:

divine guidance or care

b

capitalized

:

God conceived as the power sustaining and guiding human destiny

2

:

the quality or state of being

provident

Plus, to my ears, MP3's have an inferior sound quality when compared to original vinyl, with a lack of atmospheric crackles pops and hiss. Same goes for bootlegs.

mp3s sound worse because they don't have crackle and hiss like trashed records?

[Andreas B]

the regular night I do here in copenhagen is myself, playing mostly 60's rare soul sounds with a bit of crossover mixed in (OVO), and my younger DJ partner playing 60's garage/beat/mod sounds from CD. we get along just fine, even if I do jab at him a little for a laugh sometimes. In my own personal opinion, I tend to look down a little on DJs not playing vinyl (OVO or not), for the reasons most of you have (better sound, the collecting/time aspect, the format you've started with), but I also understand that not everyone can afford the time and money we put into it. and my partner throws down some really great sets that get the floor moving sometimes even more than my spins. even if I'm going to be a OVO purist for the rest of my days, I think both have their merits. now my only hope is that the vinyl sound will rub off on Marcus a bit.

[boba]

I thought about it and divine providence is definitely the most awesome reason to only play 45s. "GOD SAYS ONLY PLAY 45S"..

[Des Crombie]

mp3s sound worse because they don't have crackle and hiss like trashed records?

No records sound better because they are analogue and have not been compressed removing the dynamic range. As such they have a warmer more richer sound, to my ears anyway.

The crackles, hiss and cue burn, as long as they are minor, adds to the experience and atmosphere when playing vinyl. Each record has its own unique history and tell a story like the wrinkles on our faces. Well that's what I think anyway.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Des Crombie

[Spacehopper]

.... its what the original scene was built around .....

Which original scene was that then, coz the scene in 1966/67/68/69 didn't care 1% about OV.

So which scene are you on about that's more original that what took place in soul's glory years !!

..... AND ... to answer your snide remark about me no longer going to soul venues ....

the last time I attended a soul do was as long ago as ... errmmm ... yesterday.

but surely the scene in 66/69 only had ovo?....were there bootleggers then? certainly werent cds and too early for reissues....

[Russ Vickers]

There is nothing wrong with listening to any format you wish to at home, in the car or where ever. If you DJ POP down your local pub or are a wedding DJ, who cares, but if you wanna DJ on a serious music scene, based on years of collecting, diggin, wheeling, dealin & generally making serious life style decisions to ensure your on top of your game, you play from original format of release.

The debate is ridiculous, its non existent, why people constantly try to argue that its ok is totally beyond me, its just another way to jump on the NS DJ/Promoter gravy train, but without atually having the tools to do it....the folk that agree are not part of any real scene anyway, there attitude proves that & the fact that we then reach the position where the ones who shout loudest are right does not actually make them right..........

You can say, think or do what you like to desperately justify why you wanna be a fake NS DJ, you can get your mates or others to endorse it, in the vain hope it will bring some semblence of authenticity, you might even get deluded individuals on SS posting in support....but hey if your not DJing from original format your a fake wannabe, an absolute fake, leave it to the folk who have the tackle

[Dave Rimmer]

It won't be the first time Lap tops have been used and it certainly won't be the last,

it is what it is and it probably didn't pretend to be anything else.

Lots of big name 'DJ's' are doing it, obviously a market for it

I'm not being funny here, but when you say lots of big name 'DJs' are doing it, who do you actually mean ? Can you name lots of DJs doing it ?

[Chalky]

Best post I have read on this OVO subject for a long time. Couldn't agree more.

I would go further and say that MP3s in my opinion smacks of a lack of imagination and credibility. Plus, to my ears, MP3's have an inferior sound quality when compared to original vinyl, with a lack of atmospheric crackles pops and hiss. Same goes for bootlegs.

For me MP3's should be used as they were intended for portable personal use or archiving and not on the bigger stage.

Personally, I would not knowingly attend such a night. Each to their own though.

Most downloads now go beyond portable personal use. Many you wouldn't know they were compressed, it isn't audible to the human ear the compression. Not saying they are right though.

Many downloads are totally legitimate, with royalties going to the right people. Again not saying this is an excuse to play them out.

[Roburt]

but surely the scene in 66/69 only had ovo?....were there bootleggers then? certainly werent cds and too early for reissues....

Back then many on the scene weren't into records at all (though I always collected).

What mattered then was what clothes you wore, did you do the latest dance, did you have a scooter, did you go to the right clubs & attend live shows that featured the 'right acts'.

The most important factor in the decision to travel to a niter in the early days was who was on live.

In most towns, you couldn't get to see a US based act but had to make do with the local soul covers groups -- it was even hard to get to see the likes of Jimmy James, Geno, Alan Bown, Zoot Money, Herbie Goins, Sonny Childe, etc in a town venue as they were so in demand (across the UK & Europe) that they could pick & chose the gigs they took.

To see Ike & Tina, Ben E King, Edwin, Jnr Walker, Alvin Cash, Billy Stewart, Oscar Toney, etc you had to travel to a big city & attend a club venue there. The allniter's simply made it easier to do this, travelling over there on a late train / bus and then back home on the 1st train / bus the next day.

Of course, an 'allniter in-crowd' soon built up in each town & these were the guys that most on the scene back then 'looked-up to'.

So, many (most) didn't collect records and were more than happy having all their sounds on tape / cassette (the 60's equiv of CD's / mp3's).

[Spacehopper]

HAPPY DAZE!

[Petebangor]

Result a thousand and one nights "playing to the floor" whilst the ones that try to do it properly close for lack of support.

T

If the ones close due to lack of support, doesn't it just prove that the punters don't care what format they dance to?

[Roburt]

Re-issues were starting to make an appearance back then (from 68 onwards).

As soon as the Soul City label had kicked off & they had a hit with the Gene chandler 45, most labels started putting out reissues -- Motown, Stateside, Atlantic, London, President and more.

Soul City record shop (which we bought from by mail order) started out in 66 and DG started the record label in 68

No one then turned up their noses at a Soul City 45 being played (it didn't even occur to us that having the 'original' UK or US issue was much better than having the Soul City version).

Getting US 45's was very difficult but you had to go that way if the UK 45 had been deleted and the track was in big demand, but the routes / systems by which you got US 45's were far from straightforward,

I seem to recall EMI importing French copies of Bunny Sigler to sell thru main street record shops to meet the demand here as we didn't have the means to source such 45's ourselves.

PLUS ... don't forget that many back then liked soul purely coz it was the 'in music' at that time. They attended clubs like the Mojo / Wheel coz they were the places to be 'seen'.

By 1970, many had moved onto UK blues / rock groups (the likes of Jimi Hendrix coming over here & hitting big sparked a big change in the scene) and lots were starting to refer to 'our music' as Tamla-Toytown and were slagging it off all the time.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Roburt

[paultp]

Although it pains me to keep an OVO v notOVO thread going (and repeating something I've said before):

What if the mp3s were recorded directly from the person's own collection and he/she held up said originals whilst the music was playing?

It would certainly preserve the records.

[Guest allnightandy]

Now what I like about a night like this is the Bootleg boys will all be running around saying you cant do this its got to be real vynil not laptops- The same people who were slagging off us OVO people - Hypocrisy is the word I use.

Serious question - is this the way forward and will real (OVO vynil) be for collectors only in the future and will this have na impact on prices and guides.

I wonder what Styrene Hiss sounds like on a laptop?

Just thought we will now have to have subsections in the events forums 1. OVO night 2. Boots and OVO night3 Boots night 4. CD night 5. Laptops and MP3 night

What about an original live recorded cassette night ?

[paultp]

Re-issues were starting to make an appearance back then (from 68 onwards).

As soon as the Soul City label had kicked off & they had a hit with the Gene chandler 45, most labels started putting out reissues -- Motown, Stateside, Atlantic, London, President and more.

Soul City record shop (which we bought from by mail order) started out in 66 and DG started the record label in 68

No one then turned up their noses at a Soul City 45 being played (it didn't even occur to us that having the 'original' UK or US issue was much better than having the Soul City version).

Getting US 45's was very difficult but you had to go that way if the UK 45 had been deleted and the track was in big demand, but the routes / systems by which you got US 45's were far from straightforward,

I seem to recall EMI importing French copies of Bunny Sigler to sell thru main street record shops to meet the demand here as we didn't have the means to source such 45's ourselves.

An important aspect to that was that vinyl was the medium of the time which is why re-issues, boots etc were on vinyl. This continued into the 70's as cassette singles weren't popular until the 80's (source wikipedia). People recorded music from records onto cassettes to share the tunes, home recording was a very new thing at the time.

Early (I refuse to use the words "back in the day") "name" DJ's regularly played new tunes on emidisc which cut from the only copy of a record available so that it would receive exposure. Frequently this was a mechanism to make a tune popular to create a market for already manufactured bootlegs. New tunes were the bedrock of the scene, original records were not.

The format of today is digital music so playing music from laptops (or other device) is the norm despite a minority demand for vinyl releases as a retro format. So I understand people playing sets from mp3. I also understand why many collections from the 70's consist of a lot of bootlegs - it was the only way to get a tune at the time on the format of the time and many people didn't know the difference between boots and originals. 70's bootlegs probably have some provenance now as far as the history of Northern Soul is concerned.

But I do not understand why people pay £10 plus for recently made bootlegs? Why bother being ripped off for a sub standard sound on outdated media? I get a kick out of playing a newly acquired original issue record - though some may consider that sad. I enjoy playing music from CD and mp3 too, but I don't think I'd get any pleasure from buying or playing a modern boot.

Anyway, I'm rambling now and I've got work to do.

[paultp]

What about an original live recorded cassette night ?

Can you imagine trying to cue up a cassette tape? I'd certainly pay to see that and applaud anyone who managed it.

[Tony A]

Can you imagine trying to cue up a cassette tape? I'd certainly pay to see that and applaud anyone who managed it.

It's easy when you know how, my Yamaha cassette deck can do it automatically.

[Iancsloft]

.... its what the original scene was built around .....

Which original scene was that then, coz the scene in 1966/67/68/69 didn't care 1% about OV.

So which scene are you on about that's more original that what took place in soul's glory years !!

Don't make me laugh the scene from 66...69 did,nt care about Ov that's why me and everyone I knew into the music back then spent hours rummaging through record stores ,junk shops ect and trying our best to find out where the best tunes where coming from ,back in those days DJ,s who had the tunes where treated like gods not like today where every Tom dick & Harry can DJ without putting in the time and effort to move the music forward and spread the faith..

Its only a matter of time before the wrinkly owd men & women playing their boots & Counterfiet 45 s are replaced by cyborgs who when asked to play something not in the top 500 spray the unfortunate punter with brut aftershave or owd spice mixed with caustic soda to melt what ever brain cells that might ave left, if I ever have to go to a nite where the music I love is played through a laptop or similar I,ll be a cabbage with advanced mad cow lol����

[Cally49]

I Think That It Should Be Put On Flyers ECT If The Night Is Playing Off A LapTop Or Mp3 Then At Least You Have The Choice Of If You Dont Like That Format Then Dont Go

[Little-stevie]

I'm not being funny here, but when you say lots of big name 'DJs' are doing it, who do you actually mean ? Can you name lots of DJs doing it ?

Was thinking the same Dave...

Who are these big name djs, i must be missing something???

[viphitman]

Don't make me laugh the scene from 66...69 did,nt care about Ov that's why me and everyone I knew into the music back then spent hours rummaging through record stores ,junk shops ect and trying our best to find out where the best tunes where coming from ,back in those days DJ,s who had the tunes where treated like gods not like today where every Tom dick & Harry can DJ without putting in the time and effort to move the music forward and spread the faith..

Its only a matter of time before the wrinkly owd men & women playing their boots & Counterfiet 45 s are replaced by cyborgs who when asked to play something not in the top 500 spray the unfortunate punter with brut aftershave or owd spice mixed with caustic soda to melt what ever brain cells that might ave left, if I ever have to go to a nite where the music I love is played through a laptop or similar I,ll be a cabbage with advanced mad cow lol��

exactly and also playing or owning them on imports was THE aspiration for most dj's & collectors... ah well some resorted to ...dink it out tommy or ralph ;) ....and yes before ya say it ...yep, I was not around but was chatting away to people who are sadly not with us anymore

Edited October 16, 2012 by viphitman

[Geeselad]

might as well play the dooley's imho

[jocko]

Can you imagine trying to cue up a cassette tape? I'd certainly pay to see that and applaud anyone who managed it.

I have seen dj's using 8 tracks in the House world, and mixing perfectly not just cueing up.

I have also seen a DJ, same chap DJ with holograms and laser led light streams (hard to explain, google Kerri Chandler Southport on YouTube) which meant he mixed the music as well as made new music during it. Very impressive, although appreciate it is totally irrelevant to ongoing debate.

Although I am now always sure these debates are actually Monty Python researching some material which will have me scratching my head watching it on telly, thinking how come I have heard this before. Surreal.

Opinions eh, everyone has them only mines are right as a famous dictator once said.

Edited October 16, 2012 by jocko

[Spacehopper]

Was thinking the same Dave...

Who are these big name djs, i must be missing something???

me too...colin curtis apparently did but any others?

[Steve L]

Back then many on the scene weren't into records at all (though I always collected).

What mattered then was what clothes you wore, did you do the latest dance, did you have a scooter, did you go to the right clubs & attend live shows that featured the 'right acts'.

The most important factor in the decision to travel to a niter in the early days was who was on live.

In most towns, you couldn't get to see a US based act but had to make do with the local soul covers groups -- it was even hard to get to see the likes of Jimmy James, Geno, Alan Bown, Zoot Money, Herbie Goins, Sonny Childe, etc in a town venue as they were so in demand (across the UK & Europe) that they could pick & chose the gigs they took.

To see Ike & Tina, Ben E King, Edwin, Jnr Walker, Alvin Cash, Billy Stewart, Oscar Toney, etc you had to travel to a big city & attend a club venue there. The allniter's simply made it easier to do this, travelling over there on a late train / bus and then back home on the 1st train / bus the next day.

Of course, an 'allniter in-crowd' soon built up in each town & these were the guys that most on the scene back then 'looked-up to'.

So, many (most) didn't collect records and were more than happy having all their sounds on tape / cassette (the 60's equiv of CD's / mp3's).

Exactly!! You wanted to be part of an elite, underground scene that set you apart from the rest.

Not one that was watered down, commercialised and full of tw@ts who didnt have a clue and made what was special to you a laughing stock!

[paultp]

I have seen dj's using 8 tracks in the House world, and mixing perfectly not just cueing up.

I have also seen a DJ, same chap DJ with holograms and laser led light streams (hard to explain, google Kerri Chandler Southport on YouTube) which meant he mixed the music as well as made new music during it. Very impressive, although appreciate it is totally irrelevant to ongoing debate.

Although I am now always sure these debates are actually Monty Python researching some material which will have me scratching my head watching it on telly, thinking how come I have heard this before. Surreal.

Opinions eh, everyone has them only mines are right as a famous dictator once said.

That actually is quite impressive.

Maybe the NS scene is missing the point? perhaps this is where the search for new tunes leads to? mixing and adding your own flavour.

Maybe best not to go there!

[bri phill]

What mattered then was what clothes you wore, did you do the latest dance, did you have a scooter, did you go to the right clubs & attend live shows that featured the 'right acts'.

This is very true with probably 90% of The Mod generation where the original scene started.

Also that re-releases were quite common in 68 onwards and most people including club DJs didn't even know it was a re-release and were happy to hear it in any format.

The collectors which I was one and later a DJ did want the original issue and British demo wherever possible.

But I was what I class as a second generation soulie a lot of the original generation had moved on by 68

The newer generation cared less about clothes and scooters and seem to bring with it more collectors.

But EMI discs, re-releases and boots were played by most DJ's

Regarding now if it's billed as a soul night I would expect to hear CD's/MP3s or if billed as vinyl only that would include boots etc.and a lot of those nights/days advertise on here.

I can also say that a lot of people on here go to them even some who are advocating OVO only.

I personally would prefer OVO but I also want to enjoy myself and this takes prefernce these days.

Edited October 16, 2012 by bri. phill

[Guest Krissii]

Difinitive answer , you can stare all day at a print of the Mona Lisa it will register the same visual message in your brain as the original would but............. it lacks provenance , history and a tangible link to the artist in short it lacks soul .

Well thats my view anyway .

edit typo corrected

I dont understand this comparison .

The Mona Lisa is a painting , it's visual . I do'nt understand what has it got to do with sonics and dancing ? . Isnt it true that the vast majority of paying customers do'nt care about the format and just want to dance ? . Is that wrong of them ?

Edited October 16, 2012 by Krissii

[Epic]

Went to a night about 5 years ago and when we walked in the geezer on the stage had a laptop set up. Just as we were walking straight back out his Mrs came up to us and said please dont ask for requests as her old man ( who was on the stage) was dyslexic and couldnt read the titles or artists but knew where each track was in conjunction to the previous track he'd played. A friend of his had downloaded them for him.

You couldnt make it up.

Regards

Kev

Should have asked for Tyrone & Tony - "Operator Please"

[Geeselad]

Was thinking the same Dave...

Who are these big name djs, i must be missing something???

I've heard about plenty know DJ's doing this in the last few years but it gets pretty heavy if we name and shame on here, and thats not what this thread is about is it? and is playing from a laptop any worse than playing grapevine or a 2nd issue of the salvidors, when your tunes are on video camera, in front of say a thousand people?

[boba]

If you're playing from a laptop with serato, you technically are playing vinyl

[viphitman]

sorry to say that but the uk soul scene is slowly watered down by the just want to have fun & don't care about this or that brigade within the last 12 years or so and will end up the same as any other inner city disco.... there is not even respect for certain aspects like original vinyl, diverse playlists, date clashes and so on just constant arguments and excuses from dick & tom... ah well at least in europe and funny enough in the usa things seem to have developed quite nicely with a lot of respect and alltough maybe not always a house full of hard core soulies but at least promoters, djs collectors and hard core soul punters spreading the faith and keeping it special !!!!! newies to the scene always get that little tingle once the get hooked because of ALL the rather snobby aspects of the soul scene....like the dancing, the ovo & collecting madness, the traveling, the friendlyness and so on.... ah well who cares !!!!

... thank god the hamburg soul weekender is on next weekend

Edited October 16, 2012 by viphitman

[Dave Rimmer]

I've heard about plenty know DJ's doing this in the last few years but it gets pretty heavy if we name and shame on here, and thats not what this thread is about is it? and is playing from a laptop any worse than playing grapevine or a 2nd issue of the salvidors, when your tunes are on video camera, in front of say a thousand people?

Well, actually I haven't heard about plenty well known DJs doing this, which is why I asked the question, so, yes it probably would be helpful if these well known DJs are named. After all, if you say 'plenty' and the other post says 'lots' I'm surprised I haven't heard about it, I'm out nearly every weekend, from one end of the country to another.

And I thought that's what this thread was about...a DJ playing MP3s from a laptop.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Dave Rimmer

[boba]

Well, actually I haven't heard about plenty well known DJs doing this, which is why I asked the question, so, yes it probably would be helpful if these well known DJs are named. After all, if you say 'plenty' and the other post says 'lots' I'm surprised I haven't heard about it, I'm out nearly every weekend, from one end of the country to another.

And I thought that's what this thread was about...a DJ playing MP3s from a laptop.

TONS of djs. now you know it's true.

[viphitman]

...do ya guys actually remember traveling to a venue to hear tracks you could rarely hear anywhere else and the excitement of dancing to them as well as the tingeling feeling of knowing that you belong to a rather ''secret'' and very special scene'' ???

[boba]

...do ya guys actually remember traveling to a venue to hear tracks you could rarely hear anywhere else and the excitement of dancing to them as well as the tingeling feeling of knowing that you belong to a rather ''secret'' and very special scene'' ???

this is like how you had to go to porno theaters before there was VHS and internet

[Russ Vickers]

Hey Bob, what is Serato pse.

Thx Russ

[Russ Vickers]

...do ya guys actually remember traveling to a venue to hear tracks you could rarely hear anywhere else and the excitement of dancing to them as well as the tingeling feeling of knowing that you belong to a rather ''secret'' and very special scene'' ???

Yes I friggin do......n that is my point & why it makes my blood boil when people make light of it....its an old hat thread to some extent & maybe Im too long in the tooth to be getting wound up over it all over again, but if we ignore it people will thing its all ok, thats why I always bite !!!...

Best Russ

[boba]

Hey Bob, what is Serato pse.

Thx Russ

it's pretty much the standard for most types of dance djing now. there's a laptop with software that you hook turntables up to. On the turntables you use special serato "control discs" which let you manipulate the mp3 as if it were a record on the turntable. What's stupid is that there are all sorts of limited edition control discs that are now worth money (type serato into popsike).

[Russ Vickers]

Thanks Bob, I think for International Dance DJ's this is a great tool, as apart from anything else, it saves having to travel with all that Vinyl.

Best Russ

[Ted Massey]

I've heard about plenty know DJ's doing this in the last few years but it gets pretty heavy if we name and shame on here, and thats not what this thread is about is it? and is playing from a laptop any worse than playing grapevine or a 2nd issue of the salvidors, when your tunes are on video camera, in front of say a thousand people?

I do know that the camera often shows a different colour to the record as i have been accussed in a nice way of playing a salvadors second issue but i can assure you its not, i will have Mick Smiths balls if it is

[Guest john s]

Thanks Bob, I think for International Dance DJ's this is a great tool, as apart from anything else, it saves having to travel with all that Vinyl.

Best Russ

It also means that you can travel without work permits if you're canny about it...

[Dekka]

I'm not being funny here, but when you say lots of big name 'DJs' are doing it, who do you actually mean ? Can you name lots of DJs doing it ?

Went to a night in Long Eaton a few years ago on our way to the Stafford re-union,

2 rooms upstairs, lap tops and 'big names', there are others.

Also, not being funny, I wasn't dissing it, it is what it is

[Iancsloft]

...do ya guys actually remember traveling to a venue to hear tracks you could rarely hear anywhere else and the excitement of dancing to them as well as the tingeling feeling of knowing that you belong to a rather ''secret'' and very special scene'' ???

Yip that's why I like going to venues like Grumpy Soul in Runcorn whenever it's on, the feeling of going to the Highland Room in Blackpoo and The Torch in Tunstall has never left me especially the Highland room Levine n Curtis brought new tunes to the dance floor on a weekly basis ,then I would spend weeks or months trying to locate a copy of whatever monster tunes where breaking ah sweet memories of times long gone

[Chalky]

Yes I friggin do......n that is my point & why it makes my blood boil when people make light of it....its an old hat thread to some extent & maybe Im too long in the tooth to be getting wound up over it all over again, but if we ignore it people will thing its all ok, thats why I always bite !!!...

Best Russ

Too many think it is ok now Russ, that's why this topic keeps getting regurgitated.

Out and about I bet there's less than 10% in a venue who actually care what format is being played.

[paultp]

Yes I friggin do......n that is my point & why it makes my blood boil when people make light of it....its an old hat thread to some extent & maybe Im too long in the tooth to be getting wound up over it all over again, but if we ignore it people will thing its all ok, thats why I always bite !!!...

Best Russ

Russ, I think it is pretty much two scenes now; one for those that really care about records, like the background info and who want to dance, see their mates, hear new sounds and discuss records etc, and one for those that are just out to have a dance and see their mates.

The people who are "record" people know where to go and who to listen to, who has the records and who doesn't. If I still went out there are only a few places I would want to visit.

If the scene has split like this, then the "record" side is still underground and exclusive, it needs knowledge to gain respect, people still travel to hear certain DJ sets and tunes.

If all the general public see of Northern Soul is pensioners in baggy trousers whirling around to the Dooleys then hopefully they will laugh at it and turn to something else. That will keep the "record" side of it hidden. It might be worth giving up the title to keep the record side of things exclusive.

Dunno, I might have it all wrong, these days I just stay in and play records to myself.

[Steve L]

...do ya guys actually remember traveling to a venue to hear tracks you could rarely hear anywhere else and the excitement of dancing to them as well as the tingeling feeling of knowing that you belong to a rather ''secret'' and very special scene'' ???

Dont have to think back too far mate, did exactly that last Saturday at Burnley and will be doing it on the 27th at Lifeline

[Dave Rimmer]

Went to a night in Long Eaton a few years ago on our way to the Stafford re-union,

2 rooms upstairs, lap tops and 'big names', there are others.

Also, not being funny, I wasn't dissing it, it is what it is

So who are these 'big names' ? Why are people afraid of naming them ? If they use a laptop, they use a laptop, as you say, it is what it is. So why all the secrecy ?

[Citizen P]

So who are these 'big names' ? Why are people afraid of naming them ? If they use a laptop, they use a laptop, as you say, it is what it is. So why all the secrecy ?

Allegedly and totally unsubstansiated

Richard Searling

Colin Curtis.

However, as I tend not to frequent the annual social get togethers I can neither confirm nor deny

Tony

[Dekka]

So who are these 'big names' ? Why are people afraid of naming them ? If they use a laptop, they use a laptop, as you say, it is what it is. So why all the secrecy ?

This particular night wasn't an ovo advertised night, so what does it matter who they are,

like I say it is what it is, why do you keep pushing?

Edited October 16, 2012 by dekka