Popular Post Soul16 Posted January 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 22, 2015 A guy on eBay that regularly lists these pressings/re-issues with stuck on labels won a couple of 'proper' 1970's vintage pressings off me recently, I am now expecting them to be auctioned off very soon with freshly printed labels and see him get back three times his original investment. He is very honest (if you can call it that) about what he is selling, so I won't make further comment on that side of things. I doubt that I am alone in this, but when I was regularly attending venues in the 1980's and 90's, part of the thrill for me was being in the same room as those rare pieces of vinyl that the DJ had spent a lot of time and money tracking down to play for our listening and dancing pleasure. I'm now struggling with the idea that there are 'imposters' going up and down the country, carrying boxes of mocked-up 45's to play to the paying punters. Come to think of it, I attended an event last year and every now and again, the sound quality off some of the records seemed suspiciously poor, so I guess I may have been an unsuspecting victim of someone spinning a few boots here and there. Maybe I'm just over sensitive, I felt terribly cheated when I found out that Jools Holland's Annual Hootenanny wasn't a live broadcast and was actually recorded in October... 11 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steviehay Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 He has now just offered me a bob and fred for 35 I politely declined stating that you are all over ss takers anyone ??? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Frankie M Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 We all have a "rough " idea of what the 45s we are chasing are worth , so if I saw a Roscoe Thomas at £30I would know its a boot , but inwardly hoping someone had made an error and would do my best not to bid !( just using Roscoe as an example , saw it for £175 recently , didn't have enough cash and let it drift awaywhich at the moment is the story of my life !! )Anyway nice thread and a wake up call to the new guys on the scene ,OVO works for me and will keep on looking 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soulboyrecords Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 He's selling these at up to $400 !!! THE NATURAL FOUR - I THOUGHT YOU WERE MINE $384.44 19 bids +$3.47 shipping View similar active itemsSell one like this Jan-14 13:44 From United Kingdom DEL LARKS - JOB OPENING $309.06 24 bids +$3.47 shipping View similar active itemsSell one like this Dec-10 13:42 From United Kingdom THE CASHMERES - SHOW STOPPER $226.16 28 bids +$3.47 shipping View similar active itemsSell one like this Dec-10 13:58 From United Kingdom GEORGE LEMONS - FASCINATING GIRL Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mark Howell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Arrived today thank you. Making it's debut on Acacia Radio 18:00-21:00 4/2/15. 7***7 ( 213) During past month THE CASHMERES - SHOW STOPPER (#181648099443) GBP 42.70 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair. 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Vynilhound Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair. Same here. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Bo Diddley Posted January 30, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2015 It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair. Someone on Soul Source a few years back commented on a thread discussing venues that describe themselves as Original Vinyl Only - OVO. They put forward the idea that venues such as the one you attended should advertise as playing "Carvers, Reissues And Pressings". This could then be abbreviated to "CRAP" and they could advertise as such. You would then have CRAP DJ's and CRAP venues playing CRAP. No offence intended. 12 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chris L Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I assume we're talking about "KeithRed" here ? Doesn't seem to be anything for sale right now ? Edited January 30, 2015 by Chris L Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
stokesoulboy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Bloody hell, that del larks is close tho, the printer must be very good. Not that i would ever buy one, as i like a record with character, A REAL ONE !. Happy hunting out there. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Stateside Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The seller is making it quite plain that what he is selling is a re-issue/bootleg with real looking labels stuck on. However, the people buying them may not be quite as up front in say two or three years if they decide to sell them on. Or suppose you've popped your clogs and the missus is sticking them up on ebay trying to get the best price, she could unwittingly think they were original. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 There`s at least 3 folk on Ebay doing this......here`s another one. https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/raptorbass2014/m.html?item=201272710070&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 Waste of time reporting it because i`ve tried......... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jerry Hipkiss Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair. I must live a very sheltered life, because I don't see that happening at our main events here in Gloucestershire - although there are several nights where it's more likely, so I don't bother with them. I toyed with buying the Little Tommy 7" that's doing the rounds at the moment, but decided against it as most people that I know and respect know darn well that I could never afford a proper one, so I could never play it out - and I have it on CD if I'm at home anyway... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mellorful Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Someone on Soul Source a few years back commented on a thread discussing venues that describe themselves as Original Vinyl Only - OVO. They put forward the idea that venues such as the one you attended should advertise as playing "Carvers, Reissues And Pressings". This could then be abbreviated to "CRAP" and they could advertise as such. You would then have CRAP DJ's and CRAP venues playing CRAP. No offence intended. But if a venue has a mix of DJ's some play OVO and some play CRAP you could have an OVO CRAP or CRAP OVO event. That would confuse the hell out of punters. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Bo Diddley Posted January 30, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2015 But if a venue has a mix of DJ's some play OVO and some play CRAP you could have an OVO CRAP or CRAP OVO event. That would confuse the hell out of punters. I think they've already got that covered . They are called "100% Vinyl Only". 5 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Swifty Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It's fooking mental , now anybody who is prepared to pay big money on any record you would think that they know they're stuff but he actually states that they are boots/2nd issues whatever and people are paying stupid spandoolies WTF !!! Being in graphic design I know what I'm doing Monday , mind you I did do a quality 45 Label for Tommy Tate on Ko Ko about 20 years ago Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soul16 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The 1976 Silver Spotlight Series UK reissues of Little Anthony - Better Use Your Head/Gonna Fix You Good seem to be getting regularly transformed into original UK Demos. If played out, it would certainly fool the cameras, but given that it was mixed in stereo, to complete the illusion, the DJ would also need to remember to flick the Mono switch on the amplifier. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Reg Scott Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Out and out carvers with counterfeit labels are exactly that and made to decieve and thieve from the unsuspecting in many cases. I really don't agree with all these 'legit' look-a -like re-issues either, it leaves too much room for abuse by unscrupulous sellers. For example, Tramp have done many - too many imho - 'replica'/repros Little Gregory, Rudy Lambert, etc etc and now Rising Sun but so have companies like Numero.. Just saying like Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Kris Holmes Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 most of the numero ones are pretty easy to tell since they'll have telltale markings somewhere on the label (except the omnibus box set), but yeah the tramp ones are exact. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
grouse Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 All of these are easy to tell as they are bootleg/reissues with different labels stuck on top. If you don'tknow the difference you shouldn't be buying records. I can't see anyone being fooled by these.The people buying them for big money are just idiots. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ernie Andrews Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 RedKeith is not being very honest as he does not use the word Boot or counterfeit. Why? because he knows that he could be prosecuted just like someone who takes poor cigarettes and puts them into fake Malboro packs. IF someone did that on ebay they would be prosecuted so why not this person or others who don't say that they are counterfeit copies which is actually what they are and not reissues! This is about real deception and if he was really honest he would as its an auction give a guide price! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) A key thing is that we don't know what the long-term effect will be from this practice. We could be at the last stage of serious record collecting and I'm being 100% serious here. I have no axes to grind as I've had several incredible vinyl collections over the years but I stopped collecting rare original Northern vinyl 45s around 35 years ago. I still stumble into stuff but I tend to move it on to those who can get more use from them than I will. However, in the last few years, I've looked through some boxes of well-known DJs from across the scene and spotted some very, very good boots. I knew they were boots 'cos I've had the originals and can tell. When I pointed out that a certain record was a definite boot, the general reaction was a shrug and 'OK. C'est la vie. Life goes on.' No big deal. So the lines are getting blurred. Something very very near to an original seems to be acceptable in many quarters. I know this first-hand 'cos I've had that Mel Britt 'oh so close' boot and the Miki Farrow boot which was good enough to pass muster and had people begging to buy them because they were near as dammit to the real thing as the real things were way beyond most people's budgets. Plus, the percentage of qualified people who can be bothered to tell the difference is diminishing every year and has little relevance to a younger audience who just want to dance to great records anyway. So it doesn't surprise me that 'superior counterfeit' operations are springing up. The water's are muddying all the time. That Del-Larks counterfeit looks spot on to me. In fact, it's BETTER than the water-damaged one I bought for £2 in 1975. Forget ever finding an original and being able to afford it. That's simply not an option to the numerous people who would like that record in 2015. So, a very, very good boot is the next best option. Future Manship Price Guides will have to acknowledge this area and prices will be dictated by how close the boot is to the original and how many were done. It's a whole new area. The strange world of Northern Soul ay? Ian D Edited January 31, 2015 by Ian Dewhirst 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
arnie j Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 theres gonna be some great threads on here in ten years time about some of these records jason 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Frankie Crocker Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 A guy on eBay that regularly lists these pressings/re-issues with stuck on labels won a couple of 'proper' 1970's vintage pressings off me recently, I am now expecting them to be auctioned off very soon with freshly printed labels and see him get back three times his original investment. He is very honest (if you can call it that) about what he is selling, so I won't make further comment on that side of things. More than wiling to make a comment on that side of things. He is being open rather than honest. Some would call it bare-faced cheek. This is a mercenary enterprise that can only undermine the record buying market in times ahead. To pay serious money for a photocopied label Pritt Sticked onto a bootleg in a counterfeit operation beggars belief. Surely, sensible vinyl buyers can by-pass these fakes? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 theres gonna be some great threads on here in ten years time about some of these records jason They already have legitimacy. I just looked at 'em again. That Natural Four looks bang on too. How many people would want to argue the toss with a top DJ at an OVO gig? These guys will all be competing as to who can get the best counterfeits. The fun is just beginning.......... Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Aaron Darcy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair. Phil 'i have misfortune of attending local do's where the Dj's play club classics and carvers , boots, reissues , the handbag crowd who are there think these Dj's are top guys and thats Northern soul , the dj's nor the crowd are none knowledgeable shit bags. The scene was built on original 45 played out by Dj's back in the day and you had to go to venues where they were on , unfortunately its not like that anymore and the scene is no its arse . Edited January 31, 2015 by Aaron Darcy Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Phil 'i have misfortune of attending local do's where the Dj's play club classics and carvers , boots, reissues , the handbag crowd who are there think these Dj's are top guys and thats Northern soul , the dj's nor the crowd are none knowledgeable shit bags. The scene was built on original 45 played out by Dj's back in the day and you had to go to venues where they were on , unfortunately its not like that anymore and the scene is no its arse . About right there, not sure about on it`s arse but that may happen. Thing is, who started bootlegging on the scene all those years ago?....... ...all for the same reason. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Reg Scott Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Future Manship Price Guides will have to acknowledge this area and prices will be dictated by how close the boot is to the original and how many were done. It's a whole new area. The strange world of Northern Soul ay? Ian D This has already started Ian, albeit in a very small way, in Manship's 6th Edition where the Eddie Parker I'm Gone Awake counterfeit is listed and valued.. But I disagree the original vinyl collecting of the future looks as bleak as you paint it, apart from the very high-end items, the sheer volume of quality 45's and the pleasure of the original physical object will continue. The argument continues as it has for decades.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Kjw Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Arrived today thank you. Making it's debut on Acacia Radio 18:00-21:00 4/2/15. 7***7 ( 213) During past month THE CASHMERES - SHOW STOPPER (#181648099443) GBP 42.70 Not hard to work out who the buyer is - Acacia is based in Annesley, Notts Just go into their website and it will tell you who is the presenter of that show Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest john s Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Someone called Paul Lightly bought it, then. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest smudgesmith Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 RedKeith is not being very honest as he does not use the word Boot or counterfeit. Why? because he knows that he could be prosecuted just like someone who takes poor cigarettes and puts them into fake Malboro packs. IF someone did that on ebay they would be prosecuted so why not this person or others who don't say that they are counterfeit copies which is actually what they are and not reissues! This is about real deception and if he was really honest he would as its an auction give a guide price! Ebay prosecute???? There are dealers really exploiting the counterfeit angle with feedback running into 00000,s and ebay have done bugger all to theses people.Wish they would it makes a mochery of record collecting. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mellorful Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 This has already started Ian, albeit in a very small way, in Manship's 6th Edition where the Eddie Parker I'm Gone Awake counterfeit is listed and valued.. But I disagree the original vinyl collecting of the future looks as bleak as you paint it, apart from the very high-end items, the sheer volume of quality 45's and the pleasure of the original physical object will continue. The argument continues as it has for decades.. There's not many decades left in many of us, the counterfeiters are making hay whilst the sun still shines; I cant see the OFT chasing bootleggers of an obscure music scene. The next decade is likely to put many of us into retirement or six feet under and some of those special collections will be broken up to pay for the care home fees. Those buying these counterfeits now are acting in haste, they need only wait a few years before original gems get sold and probably for a hell of a lot less than like the the price JM recently secured for the Eddie Parker. The OAP isn't generous enough to fund serious record collecting, the priority buys will be a walking stick and we can debate whether its an original WS based on the rubber tip. Atb Stu Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Quinvy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Have just had some unreleased tunes cut onto dub plates, and the firm I used has a service that will cut onto vinyl, and if you send them artwork, they will print the labels for you. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest GeoffB Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Going a little bit off-topic but as a member of the "younger generation", what is the best way of telling boots from OG issues? A lot of people say "the feel" which I understand to a point but isn't specific enough (especially in 10 years time when they get worn). It scares me a little that the people with knowledge will one day not be with us. That time when you ask "Is this a boot?" and no one knows because there's no originals or the boot is mistaken for an original. It's gonna be hard when those lines merge. Guess it's just down to passing on knowledge, collections and hoping the younger ones KTF..... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Wiggyflat Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Geoff you don't even have to buy Manships guide...go to the search function on here and put "The Parliaments" or whoever and search look at your box.Nine times out of ten there will be a big thread on how to tell fake from real.Lots of free knowledge on here. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jayboy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I have shot to the end of the thread not seen all but i am not worried about him but its the records that are then moved on a lot of people are gonna get mugged take care out there stin Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
phatspinner Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 They already have legitimacy. I just looked at 'em again. That Natural Four looks bang on too. How many people would want to argue the toss with a top DJ at an OVO gig? These guys will all be competing as to who can get the best counterfeits. The fun is just beginning.......... Ian D Am I missing something here ? Are we saying that they look exactly the same as an original and therefore the only way to tell if it is an original is to examine the matrix markings etc in the run off ? If so it's time for an updated guide with original matrix markings. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Am I missing something here ? Are we saying that they look exactly the same as an original and therefore the only way to tell if it is an original is to examine the matrix markings etc in the run off ? If so it's time for an updated guide with original matrix markings. Yep. Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
grouse Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Am I missing something here ? Are we saying that they look exactly the same as an original and therefore the only way to tell if it is an original is to examine the matrix markings etc in the run off ? If so it's time for an updated guide with original matrix markings. Some of us have been doing this for years, without the aid of guides... I don't think 'collectors' have a problem with these as they are just another 'non original' that can be ignored. These are bought by people who want to pretend they are collectors Edited February 5, 2015 by grouse 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
phatspinner Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Some of us have been doing this for years, without the aid of guides... I don't think 'collectors' have a problem with these as they are just another 'non original' that can be ignored. These are bought by people who want to pretend they are collectors Good to hear. so you can tell them apart just by sight, feel etc based on experience? Gonna be difficult for new collectors though, who don't have your expertise. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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