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Peter99

meaning of northern soul (split from orig topic)

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At the risk of being a cheese maker here, my sugar baby and dilyiid epitomise northern soul for some, and but not all. It's a broad church and the sweet uplifting feel to said tracks is miles away from say the moodiness of a Ray pollard or grey imprint for that matter. There is no arcatypical sound, look at what was played at the wheel,  as much stax as motown! But it never sits sweet with the history writers and documentary makers, and ruins a simple narrative. 

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5 hours ago, geeselad said:

At the risk of being a cheese maker here, my sugar baby and dilyiid epitomise northern soul for some, and but not all. It's a broad church and the sweet uplifting feel to said tracks is miles away from say the moodiness of a Ray pollard or grey imprint for that matter. There is no arcatypical sound, look at what was played at the wheel,  as much stax as motown! But it never sits sweet with the history writers and documentary makers, and ruins a simple narrative. 

Jolly well said that man.  Northern soul is a broad church that encompasses r&b, jazz, folk, funk, soul, gospel, disco, boogie, house, pop, and other styles of music also.

Whenever somebody tries to preach their personal definition of what "proper" northern soul is, I always think of the ancient parable of the blind men and the elephant.  In some versions of this story, the blind men come to blows because they can't agree with each other.

Edited by woolie mark

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17 hours ago, Peter99 said:

Just because someone dislikes one particular record cannot, and does not mean, that they don’t know the meaning of northern soul. It’s a silly thing to say. 

Just because I don’t like Pukka pies does not mean that I don’t know what a pie is. 

You've completely missed his point - his point is that Connie Clark is basically the same record as Frank Wilson

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36 minutes ago, Pete S said:

You've completely missed his point - his point is that Connie Clark is basically the same record as Frank Wilson

we know he said that Pete, but he also said if you think it is crap you know nothing about Northern Soul...it's there in black and white.  Only you see it differently.

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1 hour ago, chalky said:

we know he said that Pete, but he also said if you think it is crap you know nothing about Northern Soul...it's there in black and white.  Only you see it differently.

OK well not exactly important so I'll keep out of it

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8 hours ago, chalky said:

we know he said that Pete, but he also said if you think it is crap you know nothing about Northern Soul...it's there in black and white.  Only you see it differently.

Thats exactly what i meant and i stand by it

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If l thought that afternoon of the rhino was a great record would that mean that l understand northern soul .?✌

10 minutes ago, givemesoul said:

Thats exactly what i meant and i stand by it

 

Edited by Spain pete

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1 hour ago, Spain pete said:

If l thought that afternoon of the rhino was a great record would that mean that l understand northern soul .?✌

 

I think so too and i've been dj-ing for 32 years (but i wouldn't plat it out)

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6 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

Is it not northern enough to play out at a northern soul event ? 

More like because it is  '' played out'' as in overplayed and its day has gone .

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On 13/01/2018 at 01:31, givemesoul said:

Anybody who says this record is crap might as well call Connie Clark my sugar baby crap as well and if you do, you don't obviously know what the term Northern Soul means

Still trying to work out why if you think  one record or ten are crap you don't understand the so called,  northern soul  term ? . answers on a post card  PLEASE ? ✌

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1 hour ago, Spain pete said:

Still trying to work out why if you think  one record or ten are crap you don't understand the so called,  northern soul  term ? . answers on a post card  PLEASE ? ✌

The answer's up above but you're not listening to the original poster

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4 hours ago, dylan said:

This 45 has become a victim of its own success as its often chosen on non northern soul tv like adverts etc.

 

as in overplayed  in ovo venues i would disagree.  Its rarity prevents this.

 

but over exposed in mainstream media then yes.

 

its too well known outside northern circles and that seems to create most of the negative attitude towards it imo.

I was talking about Afternoon Of The Rhino which Spain Pete brought up in the thread not the Frank Wilson record.

Think this thread has deviated more than any other thread I have ever read. :yes:

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18 minutes ago, shinehead said:

I was talking about Afternoon Of The Rhino which Spain Pete brought up in the thread not the Frank Wilson record.

Think this thread has deviated more than any other thread I have ever read. :yes:

It’s certainly going round the houses....

 

and as for AOTR we have enough good records at our disposal now to never play things like that ever again.

Edited by dylan

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On 13/01/2018 at 01:31, givemesoul said:

Anybody who says this record is crap might as well call Connie Clark my sugar baby crap as well and if you do, you don't obviously know what the term Northern Soul means

Would that apply to gill's,  in the bottle as well ? 🎶✌

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8 minutes ago, Soulsides said:

People can say what they like about 'The Bottle' but that particular record and Gil Scott Heron himself go a hell of a way further and beyond the confines of just Northern Soul..:yes: 

 

 

3 hours ago, Spain pete said:

Would that apply to gill's,  in the bottle as well ? 🎶✌

Exactly my point . 👍🎶🎶

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14 hours ago, Pete S said:

I love Afternoon Of The Rhino, reminds me of happy times

It's a superb instrumental.  The reason it's knocked is obviously due to the fact that the composer/artist is known. (an American Tony Hatch)  If it was by the Terra Shirma Strings there wouldn't be a problem.  

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5 hours ago, maslar said:

It's a superb instrumental.  The reason it's knocked is obviously due to the fact that the composer/artist is known. (an American Tony Hatch)  If it was by the Terra Shirma Strings there wouldn't be a problem.  

that's because if it were by the terra shirma strings it would sound sweet FA like Mike post! Valid only as nostalgia! Tis a piece of crap that should get no airings nowadays.  

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1 hour ago, geeselad said:

that's because if it were by the terra shirma strings it would sound sweet FA like Mike post! Valid only as nostalgia! Tis a piece of crap that should get no airings nowadays.  

What, you banning classic instrumentals now?

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Noticed many members poo-pooing sounds like AOTR. summer of 74 it was probably the top sound around, and created an incredible atmosphere on the casino dance floor. I suppose you had to be there to understand. 

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AOTR, In the bottle etc etc was and is Northern it was played as were many other sounds that we danced to back then we cannot deny our musical heritage fact! If it gets played today so what Northern’s a broad church, always has been. 

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1 minute ago, Olivernorth said:

AOTR, In the bottle etc etc was and is Northern it was played as were many other sounds that we danced to back then we cannot deny our musical heritage fact! If it gets played today so what Northern’s a broad church, always has been. 

Completely agree. Many on the scene are (relative) latecomers, only knowing about '68-'75 from hearsay and third hand recollections etc. AOTR, and earlier stuff such as Mitch Ryder etc. are constantly mugged off by, shall we say, "purist chin strokers"?  As before, you just had to be there to really understand. I was, and wouldn't have missed it for the world.

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Fail to see what being there has got anything to do with appreciating good music , in the bottle was and is a great record , but it is just  a snippet of what the great man had to offer , broad church indeed, chin strokers , BULL S. 👎

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4 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

Fail to see what being there has got anything to do with appreciating good music , in the bottle was and is a great record , but it is just  a snippet of what the great man had to offer , broad church indeed, chin strokers , BULL S. 👎

Absolutely Pete. In the Bottle is a fantastic soul record - to try and label it as "Northern" is sheer music folly.

Gil's is one of contemporary musics finest writers, producers, performers and poets. A real superstar of music and black american rights. Right up their with the best.

Pete

:hatsoff2:

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On 1/14/2018 at 23:02, givemesoul said:

Thats exactly what i meant and i stand by it

Look if you're into half the crap that was played under the banner of "northern" that's your prerogative - it wasn't soul music thought was it.

 

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21 minutes ago, givemesoul said:

Somebody called Frankie & the Classicals a crap record not long ago and i stood up for that record too unless of course that doesn't fit into what you think Northern Soul is

 Its a good record  , made well before the term northern soul existed, what part of that don't you get  , soul music is soul music , as Roy Ayers said expand your mind . ✌🎶🎶🎶

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Northern Soul was and is a very broad church that can only really be defined as 'records that were/are played at venues that label themselves northern soul clubs'... Within that wide range are an extensive selection of once big, but utter sh*te pieces of vinyl of all colours and creeds, but at some point enough people must've thought that every one of them was good enough/danceable enough to become popular - 'sh*te yesterday, sh*te today, sh*te tomorrow'.

The question is whether people are honest enough to admit a] their tastes change, b] we were all divs when we were young pups and c] it's easy to get swept up in the moment out on the floor, especially when you've necked half of Riker's monthly output.

As for Do I Love You - I can tell you for a fact that Frank was embarrased by it and thought his voice was appalling and the production crap, coz he told us personally when we were ferrying him up to Blackpool. 

Dx

 

Edited by DaveNPete

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10 minutes ago, DaveNPete said:

Northern Soul was and is a very broad church that can only really be defined as 'records that were/are played at venues that label themselves northern soul clubs'... 

Apt point, Dave - I think there may be some mileage in the assertion that 'Northern Soul' is not a genre; it's an activity.

 

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As a wise man once said "you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time". Everybody has different tastes and that helps keep the dj's on their toes and the dancers dancing.

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I'm out of this discussion too many self righteous ppl who think their soul is the only soul slag off david & the giants next or epitome of sound then i'll be back

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David and the Giants was a very popular record at one time. It has nothing to do with soul music though. 

As Dave said, back in the day people would dance to anything - cos most people were off their heads on amphetamines. 

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7 hours ago, givemesoul said:

I'm out of this discussion too many self righteous ppl who think their soul is the only soul slag off david & the giants next or epitome of sound then i'll be back

:thumbup:

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If it was indeed Dave Godin who actually coined the phrase 'Northern Soul', and considering he was a pure soul fan, being subjected to SCRATCHY, COMPARED TO WHAT, GREEN DOOR, and such like, was he was actually taking the P*** ?

We all know that the majority of back in the day NORTHERN SOUL is at the edge of the soul spectrum, and that's pushing it.

BUT here's the BUT, I don't think being a 'soul' record was the first criteria for the DJ's of the day to plug a record. 

Every big name DJ has had ago at defining Northern Soul, but the conclusion is its undefinable beyond a generalisation.

The generalisation is that you get it or you don't get it , and its a STRANGE WORLD to quote the best definition.

Surely we are all past the point of justification by now, and its more appreciation of the history and great times associated with the 'Scene'.

Ed

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8 hours ago, givemesoul said:

I'm out of this discussion too many self righteous ppl who think their soul is the only soul slag off david & the giants next or epitome of sound then i'll be back

You were the one being self righteous claiming others didn’t know what they were on about or what northern soul is by not liking a particular record.  

First of all taste is subjective, we all like different things and thank god we do otherwise it wouldn’t half be a boring scene.  

Secondly northern soul, as already suggested, there is no such musical genre, it is the name of a scene on which a certain type pf record is played, primarily soulful black dance music but the term or the scene embraces many different genres.  A northern soul record is simply something played on the northern soul scene. 

As for the two records you mention, it wouldn’t bother me if I never heard them again.  I’ve no desire to keep listening to the same records for 40/50 years.  Would you listen to the same top 40 for that length of time or go to a night club down t’town playing the same records week in week out, no I doubt anyone would.  

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Northern Soul

Well to me it’s a certain beat, it can be danceable or not (too fast to slow) it’s not completely black dance music as I like a fair number of blue eyed soul tracks. Some tracks can Border on Doo-wop, Funk, Rock n Roll, progressive, Disco, mod, garage or chart but the beat or backing singers can make it a no no as it has to fit within a certain beat without being over influenced by the a defined genre ie soulful in it’s presentation is the name of the game & it seems that this trait has been picked up by some quality DJ’s that we have or have had on the scene. There is not one that fits all or era that has not influenced the ever changing world of Northern Soul, as different DJ’s present different sets, Modern, Cross Over, Oldies, Rare, Underplayed, across the board. New tracks have surfaced & have been played out on the scene some bomb but some get a great response, People (Crate Diggers) & DJ’s are still looking for Quality tracks that have not been played out before & some have great success with new discoveries & some flop along the way. There are new labels finding Quality unreleased tracks & releasing new artists for our ears. We all have our own favourites some do like the same tracks over & over again, some hate that & want to move forward but we all have one thing in common the love of a certain kind of music that we ourselves (Personally) call NORTHERN SOUL

Kirsty

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15 hours ago, Peter99 said:

. In the Bottle is a fantastic soul record - to try and label it as "Northern" is sheer music folly.

Good morning sir :hatsoff2:Got to disagree my friend 

Before labels and pigeon holes this scene was since I've been involved called northern soul.  Don't know when or particularly care who started splitting up the scene but everything from the bottle to nine times out of ten was called northern soul.  Purposely picked Muriel Day against Gil Scott to highlight different singers.  Both big records  at the Casino 

Steve 

 

Edited by Winsford Soul

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11 hours ago, DaveNPete said:

 

As for Do I Love You - I can tell you for a fact that Frank was embarrased by it and thought his voice was appalling and the production crap, coz he told us personally when we were ferrying him up to Blackpool. 

Dx

 

What does he know about music? :wink:

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7 hours ago, Peter99 said:

David and the Giants was a very popular record at one time. It has nothing to do with soul music though. 

As Dave said, back in the day people would dance to anything - cos most people were off their heads on amphetamines. 

I was on the scene for 3 years dancing to records like David & The Giants and Tainted Love and Wombat before I took anything...

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From the likes of Idris Mohhamed to Fats Domino a broad church so much more than just music.

For me NS is a culture you either get it or you dont . The politics and sqabbles are all part of it .

As long as this daft scene puts a grin on your face its doing its job .

 

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“Northern soul a dance scene” maybe those not wishing to be asailed by the Various shades of Northern past and present (feeling a sense of embarrassment) maybe best served staying at home listening to the entire back catalogue of Gill Scott Heron to expand your mind wearing comfortable slippers as the call to the dance floor has never been a priority either in the present or past.

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