Frank Wilson. Do I love you. Value?

[Pablorally 76]

How much is the original worth today?

Any ideas where it is?

[Tomangoes 2,552]

It?

You mean them.

Plus the acetate.

My original fake pressing reissue bootleg...but signed by Frank at LA2004....I got him to sign a bar menu just to show its real....got to be £100.

Ed

[Guest Shufflin]

2 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

It?

You mean them.

Plus the acetate.

My original fake pressing reissue bootleg...but signed by Frank at LA2004....I got him to sign a bar menu just to show its real....got to be £100.

Ed

my kids would say pics or didn't happen

[Guest Shufflin]

@Pablorally

oh and £35k

Edited November 21, 2019 by Shufflin

[Woodbutcher 1,861]

Or upwards of $75,000 for the test press.

 

[Guest Shufflin]

still think there are more copies out there, somewhere hidden away in collections

[Chalky 14,777]

One in Scunthorpe, one in Todmorden, test press in Detroit.  File copies probably in Jobete or Motown.  No more known about although Gordy is rumoured to have one.

[Pablorally 76]

Thanks everyone for your reply.

So 35k would buy me one.

Er....  Santa is on his way but I ain't been a good boy..

[Dylan 586]

11 hours ago, Chalky said:

One in Scunthorpe, one in Todmorden, test press in Detroit.  File copies probably in Jobete or Motown.  No more known about although Gordy is rumoured to have one.

It’s probably worth more than some of the houses in scunny.

 

is that who bought it from manship or has it changed hands ?

[Chalky 14,777]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

It’s probably worth more than some of the houses in scunny.

 

is that who bought it from manship or has it changed hands ?

Same guy, he lived in hull.  I think he split from his missus for whom he bought the record. 

[Simon T 460]

5 hours ago, Chalky said:

Same guy, he lived in hull.  I think he split from his missus for whom he bought the record. 

Luckily for him he had the £35k , and even more fortunate to have a missus called Kenny. Unfortunately, she ran off with bloke called Otis Clark (a.k.a. Eddie Foster) for his complete collection of Casino Classics.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Simon T

[Guest Shufflin]

I wonder if the fact it's gonna be on Strictly tomorrow will impact the value? would a serious collector with lots of dosh still want it? no idea

[Chalky 14,777]

39 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

I wonder if the fact it's gonna be on Strictly tomorrow will impact the value? would a serious collector with lots of dosh still want it? no idea

Why would it?  It has been used all over TV.  You seem to hear it more commercially than you do at a venue.

[Frankie Crocker 1,777]

14 hours ago, Chalky said:

One in Scunthorpe, one in Todmorden, test press in Detroit.  File copies probably in Jobete or Motown.  No more known about although Gordy is rumoured to have one.

I thought Simon Soussan ‘borrowed’ the Motown file copy? Berry Gordy ordered all copies to be destoyed so he would be unlikely to keep one. Is the copy in Todmorden playable or too warped... I can’t recall the rumours on this one?

[Guest Shufflin]

18 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Why would it?  It has been used all over TV.  You seem to hear it more commercially than you do at a venue.

more exposure makes something less desirable especially if seen to be a bit cheesy? like I said dunno, not one I'd go after if won lottery

[Chalky 14,777]

9 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

I thought Simon Soussan ‘borrowed’ the Motown file copy? Berry Gordy ordered all copies to be destoyed so he would be unlikely to keep one. Is the copy in Todmorden playable or too warped... I can’t recall the rumours on this one?

I was led to believe and I'm sure the manager of the pressing plant when interviewed said one copy to Motown for their files, one copy to Jobete for their files.  Gordy could well have had a copy of every thing he cu to vinyl? I would if I owned a label.

There was a rumour Gordy bought the collection of Reg Bartlette, allegedly the most comprehensive collection there is, and there was allegedly a copy in that.  All rumours and guessing I suppose.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Chalky

[Chalky 14,777]

3 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

more exposure makes something less desirable especially if seen to be a bit cheesy? like I said dunno, not one I'd go after if won lottery

It can't get anymore over exposed than KFC Adverts and that didn't stop someone shelling out £26k and £75k for the test press.

[Guest Shufflin]

Just now, Chalky said:

It can't get anymore over exposed than KFC Adverts and that didn't stop someone shelling out £26k and £75k for the test press.

fair enough but ads are kind of 'neutral' in the sense they are fillers between programmes, most might miss em, or not - Strictly is something else, how can that enhance the desirability of the 45?

[Frankie Crocker 1,777]

51 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I was led to believe and I'm sure the manager of the pressing plant when interviewed said one copy to Motown for their files, one copy to Jobete for their files.  Gordy could well have had a copy of every thing he cu to vinyl? I would if I owned a label.

 

But if a producer/arranger like Frank Wilson went and cut a record without your approval, and this attempt to become a performing artist fell short of the exacting standards at Motown, you might be so hopping mad, you would order all copies of the track to be destroyed if you were the label owner.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Frankie Crocker
insert a letter

[Bunderthollox 107]

16 hours ago, Chalky said:

One in Scunthorpe, one in Todmorden, test press in Detroit.  File copies probably in Jobete or Motown.  No more known about although Gordy is rumoured to have one.

Scunny eh-must be.......RS

[Chalky 14,777]

7 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

But if a producer/arranger like Frank Wilson went and cut a record without your approval, and this attempt to become a performing artist fell short of the exacting standards at Motown, you might be so hopping mad, you would order all copies of the track to be destroyed if you were the label owner.

Wasn’t done without his knowledge though was it, only after the session was it decided he’d put his efforts into writing and producing.  Regardless they weren’t all destroyed, along with file copies at least one found its way into the hands of a pressing plant employee. 

[Steve Lane 3,604]

Does the Mona Lisa get less expensive the more it`s looked at?

[Tomangoes 2,552]

I thought before any record went to production, even as a demo, it had to have approval of the 'committee'.

This disc certainly ticks all the boxes for intrigue.

Ed

 

[Frankie Crocker 1,777]

3 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

I thought before any record went to production, even as a demo, it had to have approval of the 'committee'.

This disc certainly ticks all the boxes for intrigue.

Ed

 

I think the approach at Motown was to fast-track the acts through the studio and have a weekly ‘group’ meeting about what went to the pressing plant on the basis of sales potential. Berry Gordy had the final say more often than not. Ultimately, only the ‘best of the best’ tracks made the cut as Berry was seeking mass appeal and chart success. That said, plenty of really good sounds were left in the can as we well know.

[Chalky 14,777]

5 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

I thought before any record went to production, even as a demo, it had to have approval of the 'committee'.

This disc certainly ticks all the boxes for intrigue.

Ed

 

It had obviously been through all the processes as it had gone to the pressing plants.  It was whilst going through the process that they decided he would no longer be an act but a writer, producer etc.  The company pressed 6 copies for evaluation, file copies filed the rest ordered destroyed.  There is a comprehensive write up somewhere   on site.

As for the exposure tonight, don't think it will make any difference in our world.  

[Simon T 460]

4 minutes ago, Chalky said:

 There is a comprehensive write up somewhere   on site.

 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/articles/soul-articles/frank-wilson-the-story-of-do-i-love-you-indeed-i-do-r2565/

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Simon T

[Blackpoolsoul 994]

Fascinating timing with this thread

Just watched Kelvin Fletcher and Oti Mabuse doing there routine on "Strictly" to the song......question ? your cup of tea or not

Edited November 23, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Pablorally 76]

Can you believe it. It's just been on strictly come dancing... 

That's put another 5k on it's value...

[Blackpoolsoul 994]

2 minutes ago, Pablorally said:

Can you believe it. It's just been on strictly come dancing... 

That's put another 5k on it's value...

Do you mean the supposed copy that has and never will be found  or the other one

[Soul-slider 582]

10 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Fascinating timing with this thread

Just watched Kelvin Fletcher and Oti Mabuse doing there routine on "Strictly" to the song......question ? your cup of tea or not

You cannot deny the man's dancing credentials, and he really loves the record. If he was my son I'd be as proud as anything. Kudos to him! 

BTW he's too old to be my son, just putting that out there 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Soul-Slider

[Pablorally 76]

Btw I wasn't watching strictly come dancing either.

I heard it from the other room. My missus was watching it. Lol. I was watching salvage hunters. Hahaha....

[Pablorally 76]

28 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Fascinating timing with this thread

Just watched Kelvin Fletcher and Oti Mabuse doing there routine on "Strictly" to the song......question ? your cup of tea or not

Brilliant. That's put Northern Soul further up the league with the public.... Onwards and upwards.... KFC.... 

[Chalky 14,777]

27 minutes ago, Pablorally said:

Can you believe it. It's just been on strictly come dancing... 

That's put another 5k on it's value...

Do you seriously think anyone in that audience is prepared to splash out the sort of money soul collectors do?  There isn't one I bet in that audience who is even remotely interested in owning a proper copy unless given to them so they can sell it.  Why would it increase the value?  I bet the adverts it has featured in has reached a bigger audience.

[Pablorally 76]

5 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Do you seriously think anyone in that audience is prepared to splash out the sort of money soul collectors do?  There isn't one I bet in that audience who is even remotely interested in owning a proper copy unless given to them so they can sell it.  Why would it increase the value?  I bet the adverts it has featured in has reached a bigger audience.

Hahaha......

[Dylan 586]

Dancing wasnt the best.  No backdrop, fast spin or high kick.

 

all in time but very ordinary.

 

according to my wife......

[Blackpoolsoul 994]

16 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Dancing wasnt the best.  No backdrop, fast spin or high kick.

 

all in time but very ordinary.

 

according to my wife......

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/strictlycomedancing/video-2055364/Video-Kevin-Oti-deliver-energetic-routine-Strictly-Week-10.html

[Joesoap 272]

IMHO its value relates to its rarity and the fact that it's collectable because it's Motown and because of its legendary status.  

Quality-wise, come on... it's good but far from the best record ever made, it's far from the best record played on the scene, it's not the best record from Motown and it's probably not even the best record on Soul.

No disrespect but if it had got released and flopped and copies were available would it really have this special status?

Ironically, converse to its rarity as a withdrawn release it's now the 'go to' for the know-nothing media and any old assorted div that wants to spout off about 'Northern Soul'.. 

Saturday evening peak time TV for a family audience is nothing to do with the rare soul scene as I remember and treasure it. In fact, wasn't that part of the boring, rotten old world we were trying to escape from?

Anyway, these are just my views. Rant over. No offence intended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Joesoap

[Rick Scott 1,071]

never owned an original  of the record and certainly don't have that sort of money to spend on  a record, Chalky is correct about the Scunny and Hull connection, i know the lass from scunny  whose boyfriend from Hull  bought the record for her but when they parted company i believe the record went with him...... Rick 

[Tomangoes 2,552]

I'd put it at the head of a top 3 including the Carstairs and Al Wilson as ' love em or hate em' on this scene.

I'm biased since I met Frank, heard him sing it live 10feet in front of me, and danced to it at Wigan.

It's rarity adds value, it's history adds intrigue, but it's an icon, as previously reported, as probably the best known Northern Soul record to the general public.

I'd guess at £50k now if a copy changed hands.

In terms of collecting, along with a well published list of rare vynil, it's a must have item.

I'd rather have 500 x £100 originals personally. 

Both scenarios are not likely to happen BUT I have been privileged to have the second choice back in the day when they were £10 each!

Ed

[Chalky 14,777]

1 hour ago, Rick Scott said:

never owned an original  of the record and certainly don't have that sort of money to spend on  a record, Chalky is correct about the Scunny and Hull connection, i know the lass from scunny  whose boyfriend from Hull  bought the record for her but when they parted company i believe the record went with him...... Rick 

Still with him in Scunny I believe.  John Manship revisited it a while back, there is a video on line somewhere I think?

[Chalky 14,777]

 

[Zed1 2,680]

17 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/strictlycomedancing/video-2055364/Video-Kevin-Oti-deliver-energetic-routine-Strictly-Week-10.html

Northern Soul - Where did it all go wrong?.  

Edited November 24, 2019 by Zed1

[Blackpoolsoul 994]

1 hour ago, Zed1 said:

Northern Soul - Where did it all go wrong?.  

To be Fair to Kelvin I think his father was a Northern Soulie. I was when I was a kid, before my adult days

[Guest Shufflin]

I'd imagine there will now be a Strictly limited edition 45 with picture sleeve, evoking the working class kitchen complete with table and kettle

[Frankie Crocker 1,777]

I think I’ll stick with my Eddie Foster bootleg now as there’s no chance of upgrading to an original copy...

[Guest Shufflin]

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

I think I’ll stick with my Eddie Foster bootleg now as there’s no chance of upgrading to an original copy...

 

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Shufflin
meant for the Strictly topic

[Timillustrator 586]

So which copy was this then? https://www.candgnews.com/news/record-store-sells-rare-vinyl-to-third-man-records-founder-jack-white-107476

 

[Guest Shufflin]

"While the store has multiple genres to choose from, Frank Wilson’s vinyl was a part of Zieja’s personal collection."

presumably the test press (Jack White) one?

[Blackpoolsoul 994]

9 minutes ago, Timillustrator said:

So which copy was this then? https://www.candgnews.com/news/record-store-sells-rare-vinyl-to-third-man-records-founder-jack-white-107476

 

Very interesting would like to know please

[Dylan 586]

1 hour ago, Timillustrator said:

So which copy was this then? https://www.candgnews.com/news/record-store-sells-rare-vinyl-to-third-man-records-founder-jack-white-107476

 

That was the 3rd copy the test press there was a large thread on here when it was found.

 

maybe found is the wrong word.  When the owners decided they wanted to sell is more like it.  And made the collecting world aware they had it.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Dylan