EDDIE PARKER

[Davlee]

  Eddie Parker Love You Baby On Ashford Orig 60s Pressing

$67.09 (5 bids) - Ends: 17:16 hrs 22 Feb

Ended $470

Am I missing something..??

[Solidsoul]

The buyer of that Eddie Parker will be missing something! A true first issue!

This is a picture of the rare true first issue of Eddie Parker with the proper ARCHER stamp. It is a rare record and not many people have one!

 

Edited February 23 by Solidsoul

[Davlee]

is it really that rare..? $470

[Wheelsville1]

4 hours ago, Davlee said:

is it really that rare..? $470

Yes,it is very scarce on the first press.All the look alikes are reissues with the small Archer stamp.

[Chalky]

24 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Yes,it is very scarce on the first press.All the look alikes are reissues with the small Archer stamp.

Used to see loads and for not very much

[Shinehead]

Great record in its day but was played out in the early seventies,  and so out of vogue now I would have thought , if I heard it out now it would be a groan from me. 

[Davlee]

that is what I thought,.........must have been 90% reissues of one sort of another.

Its been done to death so lets not go over it all again.

 

[Bo Diddley]

I think it's fantastic and would love to buy one with the correct "ARCHER" stamp, Demo or Issue.

As mentioned above, perhaps out of step with current tastes.

I got this from eBay a number of years ago. The sellers owned a second hand shop in USA selling household bric-a-brac and wouldn't post to the UK. So, Bob A (boba on here R.I.P.) bought it for me and posted it over here. No stamp but all the same markings as the copy just sold.

Edited February 23 by Bo Diddley

[Solidsoul]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

Used to see loads and for not very much

There wasn't and isn't loads of the first issue, with the correct Archer stamp!

There are loads of fake archer stamp copies and loads of the legal repress (Soul Bowl) without the Archer stamp, but the true first issue has always been rare and never been around in any quantity!

Edited February 23 by Solidsoul

[Torch56]

Over the years many records have been the subject of hyperbolic claims of impact on dance floors across the land. Eddie Parker remains the best example I ever witnessed of a place energised to such a degree with what was coming out of the speakers. At the completion of the song the crowd simply stopped and applauded and chanted, 'more, more' repeatedly as acknowledgement of the moment.

This was at the tail-end of 1972 at the Torch. Now, I understand that applauding a record became a thing at Wigan, and I certainly witnessed it myself at Stafford where it seemed part of the expected response, but until that moment in Tunstall I had never witnessed it elsewhere, and never with such gusto.

Incidentally, at the collective request of the dance-floor the instrumental version immediately burst out as Eddie's pleading vocals faded and the dance floor again became a frenzied mass. Apparently, Keith Minshull had two copies, of what was then a very rare item, and was, therefore, able to accede to the demand.

 

[Theothertosspot]

What about the copies with the three "w" in deadwax, are they legit? Are they the Soul Bowl ones?

Info appreciated

Edited February 23 by Theothertosspot

[Solidsoul]

10 minutes ago, Theothertosspot said:

What about the copies with the three "w" in deadwax, are they legit? 

Info appreciated

They are not first issues, but are a legitimate repress.  

Edited February 23 by Solidsoul

[Theothertosspot]

10 minutes ago, Solidsoul said:

They are not first issues, but are a legitimate repress.  

From Soul Bowl?

Where were small Archer stamped ones done?

Thought the Demo with "Stick Person" was the rarest one, is that correct?

 

[Modernsoulsucks]

1 hour ago, Torch56 said:

Over the years many records have been the subject of hyperbolic claims of impact on dance floors across the land. Eddie Parker remains the best example I ever witnessed of a place energised to such a degree with what was coming out of the speakers. At the completion of the song the crowd simply stopped and applauded and chanted, 'more, more' repeatedly as acknowledgement of the moment.

This was at the tail-end of 1972 at the Torch. Now, I understand that applauding a record became a thing at Wigan, and I certainly witnessed it myself at Stafford where it seemed part of the expected response, but until that moment in Tunstall I had never witnessed it elsewhere, and never with such gusto.

Incidentally, at the collective request of the dance-floor the instrumental version immediately burst out as Eddie's pleading vocals faded and the dance floor again became a frenzied mass. Apparently, Keith Minshull had two copies, of what was then a very rare item, and was, therefore, able to accede to the demand.

 

I bought a copy sometime between October '72 and end of Feb '73.

From Ralph's in Manchester. £1-2 I think.

Looked like orig but no doubt wasn't. 

No idea if it was the legit repress or if it came from Soul Bowl.

Rick cooper on here might remember Ralph's having them in.

Edited February 23 by Modernsoulsucks

[Benji]

Any idea how the french Googa Mooga and the canadian Stone release tie in timewise? Discogs says 1968 for both and the first issue on Ashford.

[Solidsoul]

11 hours ago, Theothertosspot said:

From Soul Bowl?

Where were small Archer stamped ones done?

Thought the Demo with "Stick Person" was the rarest one, is that correct?

 

The legitimate repress was ordered by the label owners, but had No Archer stamp.  Lorraine Chandler did mention that they had them repressed.  Soul Bowl had these in quantity in the 1970's.

The small fake Archer stamp copies are counterfeits, made to look like the originals. There are lots of these in collections.

The white demo is very rare. It is the demo to go with the first issue.

The first issue, with the genuine Archer stamp, is a rare record as well. I think I have only seen about  3 or 4 true issues for sale in 50 years of collecting.

Edited February 24 by Solidsoul

[Sebastian]

11 hours ago, Benji said:

Any idea how the french Googa Mooga and the canadian Stone release tie in timewise? Discogs says 1968 for both and the first issue on Ashford.

The US Ashford 45 is from October 1968.

The Canada Stone is from late 1968 or early 1969 judging by other releases on the label.

Eddie Parker "Love You Baby" is cat# GM 1. It is mentioned in Billboard October 18, 1969 that Googa Mooga will release "product selected from a dozen U.S. independents". That's about one year after the US/CAN releases.

The Ironing Board Sam 45 on Googa Mooga which is cat# GM 3 is from around May 1970 according to a Billboard article, see below. The US issue of that 45 is from January 1970. The Billboard article also mentions the prior Googa Mooga releases by Eddie Parker and Al Gardner.

The last Googa Mooga release is cat# GM 4, it's Eddie Parker "I Need A True Love". Its US counterpart 45 was released in Nov/Dec 1969.

So with all that in mind I'd say that those Googa Mooga releases are from between late 1969 and mid-1970.

Edited February 24 by Sebastian

[Philt]

I also think it's a genuinely hard original to find. I wasn't around in the seventies so can only imagine what it must've been like going out and hearing things this good for the first time, and on a regular basis! 

The day this stops floating my boat I'll offload the bleedin' lot. Proper record.

[Petesi]

15 hours ago, Torch56 said:

Over the years many records have been the subject of hyperbolic claims of impact on dance floors across the land. Eddie Parker remains the best example I ever witnessed of a place energised to such a degree with what was coming out of the speakers. At the completion of the song the crowd simply stopped and applauded and chanted, 'more, more' repeatedly as acknowledgement of the moment.

This was at the tail-end of 1972 at the Torch. Now, I understand that applauding a record became a thing at Wigan, and I certainly witnessed it myself at Stafford where it seemed part of the expected response, but until that moment in Tunstall I had never witnessed it elsewhere, and never with such gusto.

Incidentally, at the collective request of the dance-floor the instrumental version immediately burst out as Eddie's pleading vocals faded and the dance floor again became a frenzied mass. Apparently, Keith Minshull had two copies, of what was then a very rare item, and was, therefore, able to accede to the demand.

 

Everybody who was around and dancing or learning to ( Me ) at The Torch, danced to this, it was a genuine monster of the time and if you can dance to this you can dance to anything it is a genuine 100mph classic.

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Solidsoul said:

The legitimate repress was ordered by the label owners, but had No Archer stamp.  Lorraine Chandler did mention that they had them repressed.  Soul Bowl had these in quantity in the 1970's.

The small fake Archer stamp copies are counterfeits, made to look like the originals. There are lots of these in collections.

The white demo is very rare. It is the demo to go with the first issue.

The first issue, with the genuine Archer stamp, is a rare record as well. I think I have only seen about  3 or 4 true issues for sale in 50 years of collecting.

I've seen more than 3 or 4 with the genuine Archer stamp, plenty more.  Whilst tough to find it is by no means super rare.

Edited February 24 by Chalky

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Philt said:

I also think it's a genuinely hard original to find. I wasn't around in the seventies so can only imagine what it must've been like going out and hearing things this good for the first time, and on a regular basis! 

The day this stops floating my boat I'll offload the bleedin' lot. Proper record.

Have to agree about the quality off finds in the 70s, records like this, hearing them for the first time. 

[Frankie Crocker]

On 22/02/2024 at 21:40, Davlee said:

  Eddie Parker Love You Baby On Ashford Orig 60s Pressing

$67.09 (5 bids) - Ends: 17:16 hrs 22 Feb

Ended $470

Am I missing something..??

Thanks for starting the thread. This record is heading to Crocker Towers to replace the bootleg with an uneven Archer stamp. Sadly, no Archer stamped issue has been available for sale recently so this 3M variant will have to suffice until the1968 pressing pops up.

As mentioned above, the true first pressing is pretty scarce and rarely seen for sale. This may be due to the limited output of the Archer pressing plant in Detroit. If Jack Ashford and Lorraine Chandler were only able to press a small quantity of records in October 1968, they might have been disappointed with the situation given their investment in the record. Understandably, they had faith in the record as it was a great sound so naturally they turned to another pressing plant to deliver a larger quantity of records. Lorraine Chandler described the situation as one of pressing a legal reissue.

Theorising a little here, this record could have had experienced problems at the Archer plant hence a very rapid re-pressing at another plant. If the October 1968 pressing quantity was inadequate, Jack and Lorraine may have decided to remedy the situation in November 1968, put a fresh order in during December 1968, had the records pressed in January 1969 and taken delivery in February 1969. The 3M pressings were distributed between March and May 1969 judging from the dates on the photos earlier in the thread - 31/3/69 and 7/5/69 using the British system and not the confusing American one. 

So, maybe Eddie Parker is a bit like the East Coast - West Coast pressing situation where a label would use two plants. Major labels like Decca would sometimes have second, third, fourth and fifth issues as the pressing stampers deteriorated or demand for a sound continued to grow. Perhaps it’s time to regard the Eddie Parker record as something of an anomaly - if it was pressed in early 1969, then it surely is worth having. The promoters behind the 1969 pressing certainly had belief in the record given the X’s on the labels in thick black marker-pen and the wider distribution.

[Bo Diddley]

16 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Thanks for starting the thread. This record is heading to Crocker Towers to replace the bootleg with an uneven Archer stamp. Sadly, no Archer stamped issue has been available for sale recently so this 3M variant will have to suffice until the1968 pressing pops up.

As mentioned above, the true first pressing is pretty scarce and rarely seen for sale. This may be due to the limited output of the Archer pressing plant in Detroit. If Jack Ashford and Lorraine Chandler were only able to press a small quantity of records in October 1968, they might have been disappointed with the situation given their investment in the record. Understandably, they had faith in the record as it was a great sound so naturally they turned to another pressing plant to deliver a larger quantity of records. Lorraine Chandler described the situation as one of pressing a legal reissue.

Theorising a little here, this record could have had experienced problems at the Archer plant hence a very rapid re-pressing at another plant. If the October 1968 pressing quantity was inadequate, Jack and Lorraine may have decided to remedy the situation in November 1968, put a fresh order in during December 1968, had the records pressed in January 1969 and taken delivery in February 1969. The 3M pressings were distributed between March and May 1969 judging from the dates on the photos earlier in the thread - 31/3/69 and 7/5/69 using the British system and not the confusing American one. 

So, maybe Eddie Parker is a bit like the East Coast - West Coast pressing situation where a label would use two plants. Major labels like Decca would sometimes have second, third, fourth and fifth issues as the pressing stampers deteriorated or demand for a sound continued to grow. Perhaps it’s time to regard the Eddie Parker record as something of an anomaly - if it was pressed in early 1969, then it surely is worth having. The promoters behind the 1969 pressing certainly had belief in the record given the X’s on the labels in thick black marker-pen and the wider distribution.

I think that sounds reasonable. The vinyl on the non-Archer stamp copy I have is different/better/"smoother" than the uneven Archer copy I have. I'd still like a Demo or Archer stamped one but I'm happy this isn't one done especially to meet demand on the UK scene. I think the uneven Archer one WAS done for the NS scene

I think it may be a similar situation with other records that were re-pressed at the time - 2 Bob Relf's, 4 (?) Tommy Neal's, 3 (?) Majestics etc. 

Just my thoughts - but I still want a Demo or Archer stamp one PLEASE(anybody???)

[Shinehead]

15 hours ago, Bo Diddley said:

 I think the uneven Archer one WAS done for the NS scene

 

Certainly, I bought a copy early seventies at a local record shop never thought it was anything other than a boot, the shop used to stock loads of boots such as James Bounty, and Eddie etc.

Surprised there was much doubt about the small archer stamped one.

[Theothertosspot]

On 24/02/2024 at 08:34, Sebastian said:

The US Ashford 45 is from October 1968.

The Canada Stone is from late 1968 or early 1969 judging by other releases on the label.

 

16 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Theorising a little here, this record could have had experienced problems at the Archer plant hence a very rapid re-pressing at another plant. If the October 1968 pressing quantity was inadequate, Jack and Lorraine may have decided to remedy the situation in November 1968, put a fresh order in during December 1968, had the records pressed in January 1969 and taken delivery in February 1969. The 3M pressings were distributed between March and May 1969 judging from the dates on the photos earlier in the thread - 31/3/69 and 7/5/69 using the British system and not the confusing American one. 

Would it not perhaps be the case that after the initial run from the Archer plant, further albeit slightly later pressings were done further afield to gain a wider audience!

By the way who/where was the "three M (or W)" plant situated. I presume it was the same plant that Johnny Bragg (TTAM) was pressed.

Edited February 27 by Theothertosspot

[Frankie Crocker]

6 hours ago, Theothertosspot said:

 

Would it not perhaps be the case that after the initial run from the Archer plant, further albeit slightly later pressings were done further afield to gain a wider audience!

By the way who/where was the "three M (or W)" plant situated. I presume it was the same plant that Johnny Bragg (TTAM) was pressed.

Still giving this record the speculation it deserves, and admittedly theorising fir the most part... Perhaps the Archer pressing plant job in October 1968 merely amounted to the white demo copies plus a few green and white Ashford samples for Jack’s approval and handing out to local connections; John Manship rates the white demos as being very rare, but on Popsike there are several and not many more even-Archer stamped issues.

I don’t know where the 3m plant was based in 1969 - I don’t even know its proper name but are just calling it this for the time being. There are a few pressing plant experts out there who hopefully will add to the story. I know I have a few records with 3m’s stamped in the run-out so will eventually get round to working out where they came from. I did read that Archer was the only record pressing plant in Detroit in the 60’s - if that was the case, a lot of records would have been pressed outside the city as a matter of necessity. Given there were only a small number of pressing plants in the USA, manufacturing was widely dispersed and closely linked to the locations of the major record companies such as RCA, ABC, MGM, Coral-Decca, Warner Brothers etc.

So, we might be looking at a scenario whereby the bulk of the USA Eddie Parker issues came from a pressing plant that was sub-contracted to handle an order that the Archer plant could not fulfil QED.

[Solidsoul]

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Still giving this record the speculation it deserves, and admittedly theorising fir the most part... Perhaps the Archer pressing plant job in October 1968 merely amounted to the white demo copies plus a few green and white Ashford samples for Jack’s approval and handing out to local connections; John Manship rates the white demos as being very rare, but on Popsike there are several and not many more even-Archer stamped issues.

I don’t know where the 3m plant was based in 1969 - I don’t even know its proper name but are just calling it this for the time being. There are a few pressing plant experts out there who hopefully will add to the story. I know I have a few records with 3m’s stamped in the run-out so will eventually get round to working out where they came from. I did read that Archer was the only record pressing plant in Detroit in the 60’s - if that was the case, a lot of records would have been pressed outside the city as a matter of necessity. Given there were only a small number of pressing plants in the USA, manufacturing was widely dispersed and closely linked to the locations of the major record companies such as RCA, ABC, MGM, Coral-Decca, Warner Brothers etc.

So, we might be looking at a scenario whereby the bulk of the USA Eddie Parker issues came from a pressing plant that was sub-contracted to handle an order that the Archer plant could not fulfil QED.

I think you are trying to make the repress into an original first issue!

It's possible to dream up all kinds of scenarios.  

It originally came out as a demo and issue. Both Archer stamped.

 

 

Edited February 27 by Solidsoul

[Frankie Crocker]

1 hour ago, Solidsoul said:

I think you are trying to make the repress into an original first issue!

It's possible to dream up all kinds of scenarios.  

It originally came out as a demo and issue. Both Archer stamped.

 

 

Not the case. The 1968 Archer demo and issue are the first press. The re-issue of 1969 may be the ‘main’ issue given this is the one imported by Soul Bowl in bulk, and despite being pressed (slightly) after the Archer copies, may indeed be of more significance than previously thought. Yes, there’s much speculation but also a considerable amount is uncertain for example how many records did the Archer plant press and why so few, what prompted Ashford to use another pressing plant for the release and when were the 3m copies actually pressed? Ultimately, I think the 3m issues are worth owning as they were pressed in the USA early in 1969 or possibly even before that QED.

[Theothertosspot]

Edited February 28 by Theothertosspot

[Chalky]

14 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Still giving this record the speculation it deserves, and admittedly theorising fir the most part... Perhaps the Archer pressing plant job in October 1968 merely amounted to the white demo copies plus a few green and white Ashford samples for Jack’s approval and handing out to local connections; John Manship rates the white demos as being very rare, but on Popsike there are several and not many more even-Archer stamped issues.

I don’t know where the 3m plant was based in 1969 - I don’t even know its proper name but are just calling it this for the time being. There are a few pressing plant experts out there who hopefully will add to the story. I know I have a few records with 3m’s stamped in the run-out so will eventually get round to working out where they came from. I did read that Archer was the only record pressing plant in Detroit in the 60’s - if that was the case, a lot of records would have been pressed outside the city as a matter of necessity. Given there were only a small number of pressing plants in the USA, manufacturing was widely dispersed and closely linked to the locations of the major record companies such as RCA, ABC, MGM, Coral-Decca, Warner Brothers etc.

So, we might be looking at a scenario whereby the bulk of the USA Eddie Parker issues came from a pressing plant that was sub-contracted to handle an order that the Archer plant could not fulfil QED.

Popsike isn't THE guide for sales of any record.  Not every copy sold via eBay is on popsike.  Many deals for this record were done before popsike was a twinkle in the sack of the owners and away from eBay.  Only records over $20 are included and copies before NS became popular again probably sold for less in the early days of the internet.  I dare say the vast majority off any deal for this record were done at a venue.  There was more than a few issues IMO, had a copy myself back in the day as did others and most will be stuck in collections, it is too good to sell.  If demos were pressed and given out then I doubt they would go to the trouble of a "few" audio samples, any test pressings would be done before the demo stage.

I've asked Jack for some clarification.

Edited February 28 by Chalky

[Chalky]

as for the other "plant"

from 45 cat

Quote

has symbol w above m and Ɛ ....

I see this 'symbol' inscription quite often on locally-pressed 45s; I believe it is the initials of the person who cut the master lacquer (in a Nashville studio). I'd think that it's unlikely (but not impossible) that a counterfeiter would reproduce that for a fake.

 

[Chalky]

30 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I've asked Jack for some clarification.

Jack cannot remember anything, long time ago he said.

[Dobber]

So will this demo variation be a true first original release from the time it was recorded and released?

[Solidsoul]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

So will this demo variation be a true first original release from the time it was recorded and released?

Yes. It has the large Archer stamp.

Edited February 28 by Solidsoul

[Frankie Crocker]

5 hours ago, Chalky said:

Popsike isn't THE guide for sales of any record.  Not every copy sold via eBay is on popsike.  Many deals for this record were done before popsike was a twinkle in the sack of the owners and away from eBay.  Only records over $20 are included and copies before NS became popular again probably sold for less in the early days of the internet.  I dare say the vast majority off any deal for this record were done at a venue.  There was more than a few issues IMO, had a copy myself back in the day as did others and most will be stuck in collections, it is too good to sell.  If demos were pressed and given out then I doubt they would go to the trouble of a "few" audio samples, any test pressings would be done before the demo stage.

I've asked Jack for some clarification.

Thanks for this - it would be good to have more information from Jack. Sure, Popsike is of limited reliability but it does indicate what records have been coming out of the woodwork in the internet auction age. True, sales of Eddie Parker peaked at 70’s venues but many of those would have been bootlegs as they vastly outnumber Archer copies. The reference to Ashford samples was supposition on my part - if Archer could only press a tiny number of white demos for Jack in 1968, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that a few green and white issues were done to ‘pilot’ the new label, a 25 count box of samples perhaps...perhaps Jack can enlighten us?

[Ted Massey]

I use to buy quite a lot of records from a guy called Ian Faulkner from Telford he called me and said he had a a first issue Eddie Parker and it was 25 quid I met up with him at the Old Vic soul night in Wolverhampton probably 1987 ish he gave me the record in an envelope when I opened it was a White Demo ive still got it  

[Tilly71]

What’s the story with the blue ashford label version-is this a bootleg?

[Davlee]

definatly a bootleg..mid to late 70s I think

[Dysonsoul]

This record is not rare on first issue, yes the white promo is - when I spoke to Martin Koppel about his early trips he said they were in every shop he went in on his first trip to Detroit ( which wasn't too long after its release) He said there were loads of them! 

[Solidsoul]

10 hours ago, Dysonsoul said:

This record is not rare on first issue, yes the white promo is - when I spoke to Martin Koppel about his early trips he said they were in every shop he went in on his first trip to Detroit ( which wasn't too long after its release) He said there were loads of them! 

10 hours ago, Dysonsoul said:

 

The large Archer stamped issues are pretty rare.  The  copies Martin Koppel saw were probably the Non Archer stamped copies that are relatively common. Most people have not got a large ARCHER stamped copy and they hardly ever come up for sale.

There are so many Non archer stamped copies and then fake archer stamped counterfeits about, makes it seem more common than it really is! 

Edited February 29 by Solidsoul

[Dysonsoul]

13 minutes ago, Solidsoul said:

The large Archer stamped issues are pretty rare.  The  copies Martin Koppel saw were probably the Non Archer stamped copies that are relatively common. Most people have not got a large ARCHER stamped copy and they hardly ever come up for sale.

There are so many Non archer stamped copies and then fake archer stamped counterfeits about, makes it seem more common than it really is! 

AH ok then!, even in the 90's it was kicking around for 50 to 60 quid I had a fair few over the years, the stamp differences was standard knowledge back then.

[Frankie Crocker]

10 hours ago, Dysonsoul said:

This record is not rare on first issue, yes the white promo is - when I spoke to Martin Koppel about his early trips he said they were in every shop he went in on his first trip to Detroit ( which wasn't too long after its release) He said there were loads of them! 

An interesting point as Martin was amongst the first to hit Detroit. However, would he have checked the run-out details? The Archer and 3w reissues were pressed within a few months so he could have seen quantity of the latter. There’s an Archer discography online - it has the Four Tracks on Mandingo on it but not the EddieParker on Ashford - this helps confirm the record in question is highly elusive. Sure, most first issues are tucked away in collections so rarely crop up for sale, but the lack of data online suggests it is a very scarce record in the even-Archer format.

[Frankie Crocker]

23 hours ago, Chalky said:

Jack cannot remember anything, long time ago he said.

But you could reason that for a song he co-wrote for the only release on his own label, he would have talked to Lorraine and agreed to press more than Archer did. That could explain why the October 68 record was swiftly followed by an early 69 pressing termed by Lorraine as a ‘reissue’. So, we could be looking at a situation like the Superlatives where the yellow and blue pressings were done at slightly different times in different places. I tried phoning Mike Archer yesterday but got an answerphone message - I’ll try again later.

[Frankie Crocker]

18 minutes ago, Dysonsoul said:

AH ok then!, even in the 90's it was kicking around for 50 to 60 quid I had a fair few over the years, the stamp differences was standard knowledge back then.

Known only to a few, probably those heavily involved in selling or dealing. An early thread on Soul-Source raised the question of the authenticity of the 3w variant so it was not really common knowledge 30 years ago.

[Chalky]

37 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Known only to a few, probably those heavily involved in selling or dealing. An early thread on Soul-Source raised the question of the authenticity of the 3w variant so it was not really common knowledge 30 years ago.

The differences/variants were known to those in record bars to my knowledge

[Chalky]

47 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

But you could reason that for a song he co-wrote for the only release on his own label, he would have talked to Lorraine and agreed to press more than Archer did. That could explain why the October 68 record was swiftly followed by an early 69 pressing termed by Lorraine as a ‘reissue’. So, we could be looking at a situation like the Superlatives where the yellow and blue pressings were done at slightly different times in different places. I tried phoning Mike Archer yesterday but got an answerphone message - I’ll try again later.

He wouldn't go to the trouble of demos and then only a few issues, the costs would be far too high.  They were after all trying to make money.  Jack did say to me yesterday that he thought the record was ahead of its time.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

An interesting point as Martin was amongst the first to hit Detroit. However, would he have checked the run-out details? The Archer and 3w reissues were pressed within a few months so he could have seen quantity of the latter. There’s an Archer discography online - it has the Four Tracks on Mandingo on it but not the EddieParker on Ashford - this helps confirm the record in question is highly elusive. Sure, most first issues are tucked away in collections so rarely crop up for sale, but the lack of data online suggests it is a very scarce record in the even-Archer format.

It doesn't confirm nothing, maybe the 45 RPM guy just wasn't aware of the Eddie Parker being an archer press, other records missing too.   Elusive and rarity are different too.

[Dysonsoul]

3 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

An interesting point as Martin was amongst the first to hit Detroit. However, would he have checked the run-out details? The Archer and 3w reissues were pressed within a few months so he could have seen quantity of the latter. There’s an Archer discography online - it has the Four Tracks on Mandingo on it but not the EddieParker on Ashford - this helps confirm the record in question is highly elusive. Sure, most first issues are tucked away in collections so rarely crop up for sale, but the lack of data online suggests it is a very scarce record in the even-Archer format.

I just checked some notes I made from a 2 hour cam corder interview I did with Martin, I was wrong on it being his first visit to Detroit that was Late October 1967, So when he saw and bought  copies it would have been a year or so later as a new release, his words "they were everywhere". As for him checking the run out details,i couldn't say, but  as a rule he is very meticulous with stuff like that, for example when I worked at Anglo everything sent over was in strict alphanumerical order , any label variation, artist ,title misspellings all had his hand written explanation on the sleeve! He goes on to say he found 6 white promos a little later and also at a distributer in Columbus Ohio Masses of E P on Ashford and the Fuzz on Calla etc.. ( which press I dont know) it didn't seem to relevant at the time ( it could be on the dvd - I will re watch it) As a relation to this Archer subject he said in the early 80's he and Coachman planned on visiting the plant but were told the week previous  most if not all the remaining dead stock had been recycled due to the soaring oil prices. The lack of data from Archer, proves that half the stuff online is very inconsistent , history gets re written daily on the scene!

[Dave Moore]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

The differences/variants were known to those in record bars to my knowledge

I'd certainly agree with that. Had a few ARCHER issues back in the day and still have a WDJ. 

Dave 

[Peter99]

Great thread; very interesting, even if it has been done in part previously.

Thanks for all the contributions from people in the know.

Peter