Will The Real Simon Soussan Stand Up

[Drew3]

He has been the subject of a few threads on SS - no need to keep going over it - the guy was a crook full stop - just what is the fascination with gangsters ??

I'm not. You're the one who has bumped it!!!!!

KTF.

Drew.

[Wiggyflat]

Pete Waterman has asked me to bump this to take the heat off him......

Edited December 15, 2011 by wiggyflat

[Haydn]

oooh! Is this a resurrection?

Are we gonna hear how the bootleg of Frank Wilson on IN was the only issue available in order to release the British copy?

Which would make the British copy a non-entity?

Please continue

[Ian Dewhirst]

oooh! Is this a resurrection?

Are we gonna hear how the bootleg of Frank Wilson on IN was the only issue available in order to release the British copy?

Which would make the British copy a non-entity?

Please continue

Y'know what? I'm going to re-read all these old threads over the Xmas holidays. I forget this stuff and then I start reading it again and it's really funny and instructive at the same time. I've just re-read stuff that I wrote that I completely forgot about.

It might be worth thinking about doing a historic threads section. This could be a section where anyone who is new to the scene could check out the 'historic threads' section and get a feel for the different areas that the site has covered over the years and which could be ranked via the historical popularity of each thread. It could be an interesting archive feature for the site maybe?

Ian D

[Guest giant]

I'm here!

Oh boy, there's enough material about Simon Soussan for another monster thread.

Drew came up with a blinder here LOL.......

I will write at length about Simon because he does have a place on the scene without a shadow of a doubt. There's no doubt that he was a serious hustler and chancer - that was the nature of the guy. He couldn't help himself as Ady rightfully pointed out.

These days they'd put it down to an ego disorder or just bad genes but Simon was basically a very slick French-Morroccan confidence trickster - if you've ever been in a Morroccan street market you'll know the type.

But he was also blessed with a lot of intelligence, confidence and passion so it was hard not to like him, even though you knew that the guy would screw you at some point 'cos he screwed everyone.

Even though he ripped myself and Neil Rushton off on the Shalamar record, we kinda both saw it coming so we only had ourselves to blame LOL.

But there was a weird upside to knowing him. I had a stack of adventures with the guy and hung around with him in L.A. for a few months. I also had a million-selling record with the guy - "Uptown Festival" by Shalamar (where do you think THAT name came from) and packed a wealth of experiences into a few months in L.A. He got me into the Dramatics, all the best clubs in L.A., he hooked me up with Don Cornelius, Ike Turner, El Coco, Jack Ashford, Solomon Burke etc, etc and got me laid a few times. I liked him.

Anyway, I'll expand on this thread, but in short and in answer to Drew's original points:-

Where was he from and what was his background in soul music?

A French-Morroccan who moved to Leeds, Yorkshire and worked designing suits for Burtons. He discovered Northern Soul in Leeds and became quite passionate about it very quickly.

What contributions did he make to the scene, good or bad?

Where do I start? He discovered literally hundreds of Northern Soul records and his knowledge and memory retention was phenomenal. But he ripped-off a lot of people and didn't give a shit about it as long as he was OK.

Where did he go and what finished his involvement with the NS scene?

Still in L.A. with new wife and new kid when I last saw him in 1990, but in vastly different circumstances to when he was flying high in the mid 70's. I think he'd burned all his bridges and there was no one to call anymore. On the skids basically. I couldn't get out fast enough. But there again, I was on my way to Vegas to get wed at the time......

A star who burned bright, but burned out quickly.

Is he still involved in music production?

Nope. He's probably somewhere in vastly diminished circumstances. I think he sold his music catalogue to Unidisc at some point.

Is he still alive?

Good question Drew. Dunno. Does anyone else know?

I actually have some phenomenal Soussan stories. They're just incredible really.

Here's a quicky.......

When I arrived at L.A.X., Simon came to meet me and this is what happened within the first 2 minutes of meeting him.....

I passed customs and walked through arrivals and immediately spotted Simon. I vaguely knew what he looked like - smooth, chiselled Middle-Eastern hustler and there he was right in front of me.

We greeted each other and sort of embraced. The last time I saw Simon @ Blackpool Mecca I got glassed and had my nose broken. No big deal and I kind of peaked the situation and gave Simon the chance to slip away. Which he did. Totally vanished LOL...

So he believed that I'd saved his life.

So we kind of embraced, weird though it was and he said "welcome to L.A. baby boy. We're gonna have fun"!

And with that he starting leading me through the airport telling me that America was 'the land of opportunity' and that there was 'pussy everywhere' and he was 'going to get me laid' etc, etc...

I mean I was jet-lagged, knackered and still getting adjusted to things and I have this silver fox like cartoon character speaking ten to the dozen and I'm just trying to keep up with the whirlwind.........

And, all of sudden, he smashes me in the ribs and says, "hey baby boy....look at THAT"!

And the greatest looking female I had ever seen in my entire life was approaching us...

And Simon said, "watch this baby boy........"

And he went up to her and said, "Hello madame. I couldn't help noticing you because you are beautiful and I notice beauty because I am a fashion designer. I run the company called "Our Love Is In The Pocket" - we're the ones who put the pocket in between the breasts to give the illusion of accessibility to the male species. The pockets themselves are designed by J.J. Barnes of the Revilot organisation - you'll have read about him in Vogue I'm sure, so I was wondering if you'd be interested in modelling our new Summer line which is coming up. We're going to call it "Sweet Sherry" and I think you'd be the perfect girl to front the campaign. Would it be possible to have your number so our business affairs people can contact you"?

By this point, both the greatest looking female of all time and me were absolutely mesmerised. A FANTASTIC spiel. Right up there with Mussolini and Hitler in my opinion......

So the greatest looking female of all time gave Simon her number, smiled seductively at him and said "make sure you call me. Quick!"

She walked off and I looked at Simon and said, "Wow. I'm dead impressed. When are ya gonna ring her"?

And Simon went very serious for a milli-second and then smiled, ripped the greatest looking female of all time's number into tiny shreds and threw the pieces of paper into the air.

Then he looked at me and said, "Baby boy, this is L.A. There are a million beautiful women here and you're gonna f*$k 'em all"!

THAT was within the first 2 minutes of being with Simon in L.A.

It was hard not to be impressed by the pure bullshit approach. He was the grandmaster of bullshit. On the other hand, if I was going to be honest, the thought of f&%king a million women at that point was pretty appealing.

So he suckered me into the bullshit.

Welcome to Hollywood.

Ian D

fantastic storey thanks Ian

[Guest giant]

Great story Ian as usual.Simon Sousann,the first dealings I had with him must have been 1972, he use to buy some stuff of me via mail order and wanted to meet up to do some trading.I went to his flat in Leeds and after a couple of hours of swaps etc. I give him a cheque for about £30,on my way home got lost and finished up on the moors with fog like soup thought I was never going to get home.When I eventually made it around 3am couldn't find my cheque book and cancelled the cheque book next morning,tried to explain to him why his cheque had bounced but he wasn't a happy bunnie.

The next time I heard from him he was in Mexico,he use to send me stuff and I use to send him cash in between a couple crap records.

He then turned up in Holywood and wanted me to go over and set up business with him because I had a great customer base and was trusted which he obviously wasn't.I was having such a great time in the Uk so I didn't want to swap the council estate for Hollywood.

I saw him again when he turned up to meet me in the Hotel Picadilly in Manchester he bought some stuff of me,and I bought some of him.

The last time I saw him he was staying at The Cumberland Hotel in London around 1974 he told me he could get the most incredible stuff and needed a minimum of a grand upfront.I never really ever trusted him told him to send me the stuff first but he wasn't having that so that was that.

Thw scenes all about character and he was certainly one of them.

Regards Brian

amazing storey again ' what a character he was.

[Guest giant]

Did you know him when he was in Leeds Julian?

The only N.S. person I can remember who knew him from back then was Al ??????? from Halifax - the recreational rock climber who was always pretty zapped up but knew his British stuff especially well. Apparently he met Simon in Jumbos whilst listening to Jimmy James "A Man Like Me" on Stateside as a new release and Simon came up to the counter saying "excuse me, excuse me but what ees zees record? It elates me, it excites me, it unblocks my nostrils!"

Simon repeated the above story to me in L.A. and said that Al ?????? introduced him to Northern Soul following that meeting and within months he was off to New York hunting for Northern............

And the 'unblock my nostrils' quip was pure Simon and he built it into his routine everytime we went crate-digging. A typical exchange would be when Simon would suddenly stop digging and pull out a record....

He'd then hold the record directly in front of his eyes and say "Hey, baby boy. Are you're nostrils blocked my friend? Well, you will breathe forever when you hear this baby boy. I have just found the ultimate sinus-deblocker"!

And he'd usually be right. He had a photographic memory for label credits and could usually spot a 'good possibility' Northern unknown immediately, usually from a tiny credit buried away on the label. I have to give him that.

Anyone got any scans of his lists handy? The sheer scale of some of them was daunting.

Also I haven't mentioned it yet, but his personal collection was staggering when I was there. He didn't have quantity but, boy, he sure had some quality there. He kept the collection in his office at his Hollywood pad which was directly next to the pool and they were all housed in wooden, lockable cabinets right the way around the room. He reckoned that he also had over 100,000 records in storage but I never saw 'em. But the stuff in his office. Phew!

Every so often I'd be in there and he'd say, "are you ready for a sinus-deblocker that will rip your nose to shreds baby boy"? And he'd put a record of staggering brilliance on.

I'd say, "Jesus Christ. What the F*&k is THIS?

And he'd say "a very, very rare record baby boy. I have zee only one and I must find another one before I unveil zees record to England".

I'd then jump up to look at the label and he'd snatch it off the turntable.....

And I'd say "C'mon Simon. You're nuts man. This is a huge record!"

And he'd look at me, smile and say "sinus-deblockers don't grow on trees baby boy".

Ian D

keep the stories coming ' amazing stuff

[Guest giant]

I first encountered the enigma that was to become Simon Soussan in 1969 , when I worked for Alexandre The Tailors in their Boar Lane branch in Leeds . SS worked for Burton's in their Briggate branch , just up the road from Alex's .

A short scene setter ......... Any quick alterations to suits ( trouser length shortening , sleeves taken up etc . ) , were sent to local small tailors / seamstresses , who could complete these jobs usually within an hour . Alex's and Burton's used one housed on the third floor of an old tenement building , off to the side of the road in Lower Briggate , run by an old Jewish couple , The Fallons .

This is where I first met SS : he was in there , obviously waiting for a job , and I was taking a jacket in to get the hand stitching put on the edges , as we had cocked up not putting it on when the suit was ordered ..........

SS was sat on a chair in front of a rack of garments , legs crossed , smoking a cigarette . Very bronzed with coiffered and laquered hair ( obviously not cut by your average barber ) , and dressed , as we all had to dress who worked for the chain tailors , in a dark suit and waistcoat : no big deal , but what struck me was an extremely loud paisley tie and large silk hankerchief hanging from his breast pocket like a bunch of bananas : a real dude to say the least ......

We eyed each other , and exchanged hellos . Mrs Fallon said " this is Michel , Malcolm , he works for Burton's : Michel , this is Malcolm , he works for Alexandre's " . We shook hands , told me his name - Michel Soussan . He stressed his name , and assume he did so in order for me to remember it . He asked me if I liked working " there " ( Burton's staff had a downer on anyone who worked for anyone but the Burton empire ) . I was taken slightly aback when he spoke , as I could not make out his

accent , as I thought he was Jewish because of his looks and mannerisms . He looked / appeared to be around the same age as me , 19 or perhaps older .

I told him it was OK , to which he said " I don't know how you can stand it , I cannot wait until I get out , and make something of myself . I hate selling to people , I hate this town , I hate everything "

The conversation led to where we lived, to which I told him in Moortown : he said that he lived on Street Lane in Moortown ( then an extremely wealthy area of Leeds ) , and that he was looking for a place for himself . He did not give any information as what his parents did , only stating that they were " in business " . We got to talking about where we went socialising in Leeds : I told him that I DJd at The Central , and went to Le Phonograph , The Old Mecca in The County Arcade , and the new Mecca

( The Locarno ) up in the Merrion Centre . " He stated " that he did not go to such places " and he went to where it was " more suitable to his image " ..........

In regard to telling him that I DJd at The Central , he asked if I went The Wheel , and he told me that he was interested in the records , and that he had " many "of what they played there at his home .........

That is as much as I could get out of him , he would only tell me that there were " Many , Many " , and the were " good " . Despite my keeping asking him about his records , he would not open up , stating

" later , later , maybe we will talk then ". . He picked up his stuff , and went down the stairs ........

After he had gone , I asked Mrs F about him : she said " not much " , and that he was " Egyptian , Persian or something " , and that he was " full of himself " , and " I would be sorry if I got into his company " ........

As I did not frequent his alleged " suitable " places , our paths did not cross , except when we collecting alterations from The Fallon's . Obviously on meeting him , I would ask him again about his records , he would be avasive , only telling me that he had got " more " , and when asked could I see them , all he gave was the familiar " later , later " . I became more and more intrigued about these records he had , and attempted to gain his friendship whenever we met . I used to call at Burton's in the hopes of seeing him , but to no avail . I was always told that he was busy , or he was out , or not in that day .

I left Leeds at the beginning of 1971 , but used to return to see friends at periodic intervals : one particular time whilst I was there , I decided to call at Burton's to see if he still worked there . The floorwalker informed me that he - Michel Saossane - had left .........

I called down to see The Fallon's , and asked Mrs F if she knew he had left ; She said she had , just looked and said " I never liked him : you never felt at ease when he was in here , he was too much of a Fagin for me " .......

I never encountered Michel Saossane again until the mid - seventies , and like with many others , the rest is history .........

Malc Burton

wow great read 'amazing stuff

[Mrtag]

Brilliant read!! best thread on here in a long while!!

[Mrtag]

Plus I got my smiley's back!! :yes:

[Mike]

Y'know what? I'm going to re-read all these old threads over the Xmas holidays. I forget this stuff and then I start reading it again and it's really funny and instructive at the same time. I've just re-read stuff that I wrote that I completely forgot about.

It might be worth thinking about doing a historic threads section. This could be a section where anyone who is new to the scene could check out the 'historic threads' section and get a feel for the different areas that the site has covered over the years and which could be ranked via the historical popularity of each thread. It could be an interesting archive feature for the site maybe?

Ian D

a good suggestion Ian

what will do is split your post from topic and move to members forum

that way will keep this thread relevant to the subject

quick tip to all

- with any suggestions like this

may work better if post either direct in the members forum

or if use the report feature

if done in thread always a chance that team may not see or may see but may slip or even forget

[Guest wigan bob]

was he behind the ray agee boots

[Robbk]

The Soussan's.

Simon Soussan rumoured to have borrowed one of the two copies of Frank Wilson from Tom dePierro and never quite actually got round to giving it back.

This is absolutely true. We had that copy of The Frank Wilson in Tom's office for about 5-6 years. Soussain was up in the record room looking for records for Tom to tape for him. I doubt that Tom would have let him take that out of the office, I think that Soussain just put that, and I believe The Andantes on VIP under his coat and walked out with it, never returning to get his tape. Tom told me that he found it was missing just after Soussain was looking through the record files. Soussain did get some tapes earlier from Tom (some bootlegs came from it). Soussain had hundreds of '60s Soul cuts pressed up at Monarch pressing plant in L.A. Several were facsimile boots. Most were new (incorrect) label designs, based on available label colours and fonts, just using the proper label name and label information with off colours, wrong font and simple label design. Others were pressed up on his "Soul Galore" label, possibly (or probably) without his obtaining the rights to those songs (although he printed"Licensed exclusively to Soul Galore Productions). He had records pressed there throughout much of the '70s, and into the beginning of the '80s.

[Premium Stuff]

Presumably SS is still alive?

If so what happened to him?

Plus, if we met him should we thank him or punch him in the gob!

As you can tell - I'm totally uninformed on this one

Cheers

Richard

Edited December 23, 2011 by Premium Stuff

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Presumably SS is still alive?

If so what happened to him?

Plus, if we met him should we thank him or punch him in the gob!

Richard

Think the jury is split on that one, as ever...

[Guest Swish]

I Met Simon Soussan in a record shop near to the Casino I go to nowadays to play poker, I forget the name of the shop, but they sold top original sounds for about 30 pence. This would be 1971, i reckon. he had extensive knowledge of ATLANTIC, STAX and MOTOWN, but knew little about Northern sounds. We became pals for a year or so and I taught him a lot about Northern.

Eventually he told me he was off to USA to find the sounds and make a fortune. And so he did.

[Ritchieandrew]

OMG this thread is absolutely EDUCATIONAL can we have more please sir ,need to unblock me sinuses further thanks.

ps....Bob Foster still around these parts,someone on this site has his contact details,John Elias

John.............Bob Foster has been living in West Yorkshire for the past 2 years, since his father died. Bob was not a big fan of Simon S like so many others he had "ripped off."

Regards Ricardo.

Edited December 24, 2011 by RitchieAndrew

[Rick Cooper]

As I wasn't on Soul Source when this thread started I've only just had a look through it, but ,wow , it makes a fantastic read ,especially Ian's adventures in LA.

I remember Soussan from his early days in Leeds when he would hang about in Jumbo Records. He would ask about what records I had to sell or wanted to buy. One record I really wanted at the time was ''Sweet and Easy'' by Van McCoy, which he said he had for sale or swaps. He said if I went round to his flat with some swaps that day he would do a deal. At his flat he went into a back room and got a copy of S+E but would not let me see his record stocks. Five minutes later I left with the record and gave him some money plus a mint UK Columbia demo of Major Lance ''Investigate'.

Two days later ''Sweet and Easy'' was listed in Selectadiscs Black Echoes ad for 90 pence, a fact that Soussan definitely knew. Rip-off number one.

One weekend I had gone to Manchester and got a copy of Johnny Sayles ''I Can't get Enough'' from Global Records for £1.25 before I'd heard it played anywhere. Back in Leeds I was in Jumbo when the shop was operating at the back of an electrical shop and Soussan was there. I must have mentioned the record and the fact that I wasn't that keen on it ( its a record that definitely sounds better loud) so Soussan offered to buy it for £1 . The next day I took it in and handed over the record upon which he took great pleasure in telling me he was selling it at Blackpool for £8. I think Julian B was there but probably won't remember but I'll never forget it. Rip-off number two

I next dealt with him when he was in LA in 1973/4 and bought a few records from him and attached is a letter from him just as he started sending stuff over. Unfortunately the ink has faded so may be hard to read. I mentioned his previous dodgy deals and he flatly denies any wrong doing. This seems to be his way, deny everything and charm his way out of any problem.

I got a few good records from him but his specialty was taking the money for one title but sending something else.

I've got some other lists from him but these are on loan at present. These include his famous made up titles and instrumentals and frequent boasts about how great he is . I'll put them up when I can.

Rick

[boba]

with this specific story, his actions don't seem like crazy cons or even fraud, just standard (shady) record dealer moves that happen today. People all the time sit on quantity of records and will sell you one at a price like it's the last copy. People all the time will buy a record from you and resell it for more. The second thing isn't even really shady, unless it's a good friend.

[Guest GARV]

Interview with Arpeggio and Simon Soussan March 17, 1979

I don't know how to upload you tube clips but i found this so perhaps someone could upload, brief interview with SS on Soul Train. I wonder if Cornelius still regards him as a friend.

[ritchie]

Interview with Arpeggio and Simon Soussan March 17, 1979

I don't know how to upload you tube clips but i found this so perhaps someone could upload, brief interview with SS on Soul Train. I wonder if Cornelius still regards him as a friend.

[Eddie Hubbard]

Interesting , first time I've seen him interviewed , thanks Garv and Ritchie ...Eddie

[boba]

whoa, that video was awesome. it's crazy how don cornelius calls him "a very dear friend of mine".

[Guest GARV]

Ritchie

Thanks for uploading the clip , just had yet another re-read of this thread & his life story would make a really good film

[Guest gordon russell]

with this specific story, his actions don't seem like crazy cons or even fraud, just standard (shady) record dealer moves that happen today. People all the time sit on quantity of records and will sell you one at a price like it's the last copy. People all the time will buy a record from you and resell it for more. The second thing isn't even really shady, unless it's a good friend.

bin reading this thread...great stuff!!!......have to agree with rob on this point though this is not a rip off.....you buy a tune at one price and sell at a profit...thats just business....the sweet and easy thing is just bad timing on your part and good business on his....for sure SS was a shady fella......but l have to ask HOW SO MANY FELLAS WHO MOVED IN THE SAME CIRCLES MANAGED TO GET TURNED OVER BY THE SAME FELLA TIME AND TIME AGAIN......BEGGARS BELIEF :lol:

[Guest GARV]

If any one is interested, watch the clip on you tube & read the comments. Artists & people he had dealings with are still not happy with Mr Soussan

[Sleeps45]

with this specific story, his actions don't seem like crazy cons or even fraud, just standard (shady) record dealer moves that happen today. People all the time sit on quantity of records and will sell you one at a price like it's the last copy. People all the time will buy a record from you and resell it for more. The second thing isn't even really shady, unless it's a good friend.

not trying to speak on this guy I dont know but I would like to comment on this thread.alot of shady sellers sit on quanity of a record and then sell each copy at a one of a kind price and its messed up to take advantage of people who got so much love for the music that they would pay any price..theres really nothing the buyer can do but carma will definitley fix that! but you really cant get mad because it is business! and people do buy records and re-sale them for more..I like to buy,sale and trade just to keep up with new material and I cant imagine paying more for a 45 than I could sell it myself although I do make the mistake from time to time

[boba]

not trying to speak on this guy I dont know but I would like to comment on this thread.alot of shady sellers sit on quanity of a record and then sell each copy at a one of a kind price and its messed up to take advantage of people who got so much love for the music that they would pay any price..theres really nothing the buyer can do but carma will definitley fix that! but you really cant get mad because it is business! and people do buy records and re-sale them for more..I like to buy,sale and trade just to keep up with new material and I cant imagine paying more for a 45 than I could sell it myself although I do make the mistake from time to time

It's always a gamble buying rare records. I'm pretty aggressive and always try to get in early because lots of times there's really only one or two copies and that's possibly your only chance ever to get a super rare record. Sometimes I get burned and lots of times it was the only copy.

Recently I bought that moments on hog one sider thing from the dude who posted here, I think he said he had one copy and even listed it for $700 before lowering his price. now he's sold at least like 4 of them. now going for like half of what i paid (but at least it wasn't super expensive).

[Shinehead]

Soussan came along when most peoples knowledge of Northern was limited most of us probably thought most records getting played were ultra rare and he exploited that age of innocence and lack of knowledge , whatever he may have done we are still debating him years after and i think probably with a wry smile.

[Guest gordon russell]

not trying to speak on this guy I dont know but I would like to comment on this thread.alot of shady sellers sit on quanity of a record and then sell each copy at a one of a kind price and its messed up to take advantage of people who got so much love for the music that they would pay any price..theres really nothing the buyer can do but carma will definitley fix that! but you really cant get mad because it is business! and people do buy records and re-sale them for more..I like to buy,sale and trade just to keep up with new material and I cant imagine paying more for a 45 than I could sell it myself although I do make the mistake from time to time

A person paying over the percieved top for a tune is perfectly ok if they are happy with the price and they're buying the tune because they love it, the said tune then goes into their collection ect ect.......however and i,m sorry to disillusion you,but plenty buy TO sell.....and one of the very best tools to do this is.....peoples must have desire,it,s like a fog that gets in ya brain and all reason goes out the window.

[Sleeps45]

A person paying over the percieved top for a tune is perfectly ok if they are happy with the price and they're buying the tune because they love it, the said tune then goes into their collection ect ect.......however and i,m sorry to disillusion you,but plenty buy TO sell.....and one of the very best tools to do this is.....peoples must have desire,it,s like a fog that gets in ya brain and all reason goes out the window.

I agree Peggy ..alot of the very rare one of a kind 45s you really cant even set a value..theyre priceless..it boils down to basically what the seller is willing to sell it for or on the other hand what the buyer is willing to spend on it..but thanks Edited December 27, 2011 by Soul-Striver

[Ian Dewhirst]

I don't know how to upload you tube clips but i found this so perhaps someone could upload, brief interview with SS on Soul Train. I wonder if Cornelius still regards him as a friend.

I don't see why not. Don Cornelius made out like a gangbuster on "Uptown Festival". If anything it should be the other way around 'cos shortly after Shalamar sold a million Soultrain closed down and re-christened itself as Solar.

Soussan wouldn't have wanted to fall out with Don Cornelius since Don was powerful in the business and Simon still had new records to promote but now on his own label (Harem), so whatever business differences they may have had would probably have been buried.

Actually Simon introduced me to Don in a club called the Candy Box on my very first night in L.A. in '76, so they went to the same clubs. I was wearing oxford bags at the time so the main conversation was about my trousers!

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Soussan came along when most peoples knowledge of Northern was limited most of us probably thought most records getting played were ultra rare and he exploited that age of innocence and lack of knowledge , whatever he may have done we are still debating him years after and i think probably with a wry smile.

I always dealt with him with a wry smile. It was really the only way to deal with him. Having said that, he taught me a lot in terms of watching the way he dealt with people much of the time. At least I learned what to avoid in the future to a certain extent.

I actually checked him out in the early 90's when I went to L.A. again and he was certainly down on his luck then and I thought to myself (with a wry smile) "what goes around comes around".

Ian D

[Guest vinylguy]

It's always a gamble buying rare records. I'm pretty aggressive and always try to get in early because lots of times there's really only one or two copies and that's possibly your only chance ever to get a super rare record. Sometimes I get burned and lots of times it was the only copy.

Recently I bought that moments on hog one sider thing from the dude who posted here, I think he said he had one copy and even listed it for $700 before lowering his price. now he's sold at least like 4 of them. now going for like half of what i paid (but at least it wasn't super expensive).

Hi, that was me selling the Hog one sider--and what the only copy of the record I had when I posted it. The guy I got it from, called me a few days later after un-earthing another box of items--including a few more copies of the record, and some a few master tapes from the group (The Moments) including Baby I Want You and Pray for Me on one of the reels, and two songs that I believe were never released "Ordinary Guy" and "People Don't Know"...which sound terrific. Happy Holidays guys!

[Guest vinylguy]

I think someone rearranged the keys on my keyboard--let me try this again....

Hi, that was me selling the Hog one sider--and that was the only copy of the record I had when I posted it. The guy I got it from, called me a few days later after un-earthing another box of items--including a few more copies of the record, and a few master tapes from the group (The Moments) including Baby I Want You and Pray for Me on one of the reels, and two songs that I believe were never released "Ordinary Guy" and "People Don't Know"...which sound terrific. Happy Holidays guys!

[Guest GARV]

I don't see why not. Don Cornelius made out like a gangbuster on "Uptown Festival". If anything it should be the other way around 'cos shortly after Shalamar sold a million Soultrain closed down and re-christened itself as Solar.

Soussan wouldn't have wanted to fall out with Don Cornelius since Don was powerful in the business and Simon still had new records to promote but now on his own label (Harem), so whatever business differences they may have had would probably have been buried.

Actually Simon introduced me to Don in a club called the Candy Box on my very first night in L.A. in '76, so they went to the same clubs. I was wearing oxford bags at the time so the main conversation was about my trousers!

Ian D

Ever thought of getting in contact with SS again Ian? , i find his story genuinely fascinating. I know he f**ked a lot of people [ yourself included] but if he wrote a book about his life it would be compulsive reading.................... give us some more stories .......... please

[Rick Cooper]

with this specific story, his actions don't seem like crazy cons or even fraud, just standard (shady) record dealer moves that happen today. People all the time sit on quantity of records and will sell you one at a price like it's the last copy. People all the time will buy a record from you and resell it for more. The second thing isn't even really shady, unless it's a good friend.

Boba and Peggy

Yes , the story was not about how record dealings works but an insight into Soussan. He'd rip you off, laugh about it in your face and then you'd fall for his charm and get done again, and again and again...................

Rick

Edited December 27, 2011 by Rick Cooper

[boba]

I don't see why not. Don Cornelius made out like a gangbuster on "Uptown Festival". If anything it should be the other way around 'cos shortly after Shalamar sold a million Soultrain closed down and re-christened itself as Solar.

Soussan wouldn't have wanted to fall out with Don Cornelius since Don was powerful in the business and Simon still had new records to promote but now on his own label (Harem), so whatever business differences they may have had would probably have been buried.

Actually Simon introduced me to Don in a club called the Candy Box on my very first night in L.A. in '76, so they went to the same clubs. I was wearing oxford bags at the time so the main conversation was about my trousers!

Ian D

a couple of years ago i was watching TMZ (sleazy celebrity gossip show) and they had footage of Don Cornelius leaving a restaurant, he was wearing leather pants and didn't tip the valet at all when he got his car.

sorry for the irrelevant post, your post just made me remember that.

[boba]

I think someone rearranged the keys on my keyboard--let me try this again....

Hi, that was me selling the Hog one sider--and that was the only copy of the record I had when I posted it. The guy I got it from, called me a few days later after un-earthing another box of items--including a few more copies of the record, and a few master tapes from the group (The Moments) including Baby I Want You and Pray for Me on one of the reels, and two songs that I believe were never released "Ordinary Guy" and "People Don't Know"...which sound terrific. Happy Holidays guys!

ok thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it.

[Ian Dewhirst]

a couple of years ago i was watching TMZ (sleazy celebrity gossip show) and they had footage of Don Cornelius leaving a restaurant, he was wearing leather pants and didn't tip the valet at all when he got his car.

And the bugger had a go at me for wearing oxford bags in '76!

Leather trousers in 2009????

That's the last time I take fashion tips from that guy!

Ian D

[Drew3]

Wow, just like the Dude the WTRSSSU Thread endures!!!!

Back when this started Ian Dewhurst suggested that Kev Roberts had some great stories about his time with SS. I've not re read the whole thread but I don't think Kev has shared them yet. So how about it Mr Roberts? Also, I bet Ian D has a few more (without knackering the book he should write).

All the best for 2012 to all on here.

Drew.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Drew3

[Guest wigan bob]

i was told simon s.was behind the soultown label which makes ray agee losing game a boot any body shed any info on this

[Benji]

i was told simon s.was behind the soultown label which makes ray agee losing game a boot any body shed any info on this

Not correct. Soultown was a legit 60s label. SS might have nicked the label design for some of his pressing though

[Goldsoul]

i was told simon s.was behind the soultown label which makes ray agee losing game a boot any body shed any info on this

Bob.....Soultown was an authentic label owned by the late Bobby Sanders in partnership with the Mattel Toy Company. Simon did in fact deal with Bob and, during our SoultripUSA 2004 promotion in Los Angeles, he remarked that he had done business with him.

I very much doubt Soussan was behind any Ray Agee boots as he wouldn't have known the track back then. He was very much a Tempos/Younghearts man, rather like myself

[Goldsoul]

Wow, just like the Dude the WTRSSSU Thread endures!!!!

Back when this started Ian Dewhurst suggested that Kev Roberts had some great stories about his time with SS. I've not re read the whole thread but I don't think Kev has shared them yet. So how about it Mr Roberts? Also, I bet Ian D has a few more (without knackering the book he should write).

All the best for 2012 to all on here.

Drew.

Drew, I would love to share a few, the problem is the thread will turn into nothing but a slagfest. My dealings with him were positive and.....I LIKED HIM!

However, I wouldn't trust him in certain situations, but in terms of...'was he good for the scene'...I believe he was. The creative and flamboyant personality drove the scene forward during the Wigan period and kept it popular, albeit for a short period.

Edited December 30, 2011 by The Golden 101

[Guest UPTITE U250A]

Hi yw'all

just started reading this thread....and noticed no one mentioned the actual records themselves,which is a shame,I doubt if anyone still has Simon's old lists,do they ?

His lists were fabulous for that period in time...and even by today's standards would make jaw dropping reading,drooling,and much slobbering over....

And even more rivetting read would be a complete listing,hello Les ,of Simon's record collection sold

....and what each disc was sold for....some heart attacks guaranteed

UPTITE

250A

[Ian Dewhirst]

Bob.....Soultown was an authentic label owned by the late Bobby Sanders in partnership with the Mattel Toy Company. Simon did in fact deal with Bob and, during our SoultripUSA 2004 promotion in Los Angeles, he remarked that he had done business with him.

I very much doubt Soussan was behind any Ray Agee boots as he wouldn't have known the track back then. He was very much a Tempos/Younghearts man, rather like myself

LOL, I remember finding copies of Ray Agee back in '76 and Simon saying "don't bother with that baby boy. It's repetitive garbaaaaage". The amount of future biggies that we ignored because they were too dated or too slow or too RnB for the time is astounding - if I'd have brought back any of them in '76 they'd have been totally ignored anyway. We couldn't get arrested with things like James Dockery or Bobby Angelle or Fortson & Scott back then......

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Drew, I would love to share a few, the problem is the thread will turn into nothing but a slagfest. My dealings with him were positive and.....I LIKED HIM!

However, I wouldn't trust him in certain situations, but in terms of...'was he good for the scene'...I believe he was. The creative and flamboyant personality drove the scene forward during the Wigan period and kept it popular, albeit for a short period.

Tell 'em the story about the Casualeers if nowt else Kev. That story alone completely explains the personality of Soussan back then. Another cracker is the Reddington's Rare Records warehouse story which still has me in stitches 35 years later!

Ian D

Edited December 30, 2011 by Ian Dewhirst

[Patto]

Bob.....Soultown was an authentic label owned by the late Bobby Sanders in partnership with the Mattel Toy Company. Simon did in fact deal with Bob and, during our SoultripUSA 2004 promotion in Los Angeles, he remarked that he had done business with him.

I very much doubt Soussan was behind any Ray Agee boots as he wouldn't have known the track back then. He was very much a Tempos/Younghearts man, rather like myself

Yep as Kev rightly states Soultown was Bobby sanders label and heres a scan of The New Younghearts on very same fantastic looking label.Some fantastic reading on this thread guys

[jocko]

LOL, I remember finding copies of Ray Agee back in '76 and Simon saying "don't bother with that baby boy. It's repetitive garbaaaaage".

Ian D

That puts one rumour to bed then Iain, in 80's there was a persistant rumour that Roy Agee had been an unissued track that SS had got his hands on and then sold it as a released item on SoulTown, effectively making all copies boots. While it sounded possible based on his reputation the bit that didn't add up is him only having done a few, didn't seem to be worthwhile,

As an aside when did Ray Agee start getting plays then? (Maybe another thread...)