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OVO

Posted

Hi 

I would like to start a ‘thread’ regarding  what appears to be the now almost ubiquitous ‘ ovo’ mandate for northern soul nights. My background is not so much northern but Motown/Stax/Atlantic/Sue. etc and have been a devotee of that music for 50 years. Motown’s motto was ‘It’s in the groove what counts ‘ but it appears that the northern scene is going back to the dark old days where ‘exclusivity’ruled and the record became more important than the music. I dj at soul nights in the south and people don’t give a toss whether you are playing an original issue, re-issue or god forbid a ‘boot’ A certain dj down our way won’t allow fellow dj’s to play anything other than originals! 

Can we please keep things in perspective and just enjoy the music !!

 

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Posted

giphy.gif

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Just when you thought it was safe to go back on the forum.......o-vo, o-vo.......ovo ovo ovo ovo!

 

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Posted (edited)

FFS NOT AGAIN 🙄

is this another wind up?  

I’ll bite anyway🤗

There are more than enough Djs with the proper records who can do it right, without resorting to shitty boots. There really is no need to use some tosser who plays boots.  

If you can’t do it right then get out of the way and let one of those who can do the job.  Why do people always try and insist on changing the way things are, in this case for the worse by playing what’s in the groove of a bootleg.

Why does everyone feel the need to be a dj, especially if they have to resort to boots.  Why can’t you just go along and enjoy the music or just sod off and take that stupid ovo term with them, we didn’t need it for decades. 

Edited by chalky
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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, bilkoba said:

Can we please keep things in perspective and just enjoy the music !!

Good luck with that one...

You obviously don't understand the level of passion and commitment associated with the original recordings  that goes hand in hand with the NS scene. 

I'm actually much like yourself where I don't particularly care how I hear the music but I also have the absolute and the utmost respect for the folks who make this scene what it is when it comes to how the music is presented and preserved in that original context and so should you quite frankly.

If you don't understand that type of dedication and commitment now after collecting records yourself for the 50 years you mentioned, then you possibly never will i'm afraid.

Edited by Soulsides
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George Costanza Seinfeld Jason Alexander sitting

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Posted
23 minutes ago, bilkoba said:

   I dj at soul nights in the south and people don’t give a toss whether you are playing an original issue, re-issue or god forbid a ‘boot’ A certain dj down our way won’t allow fellow dj’s to play anything other than originals! 

Can we please keep things in perspective and just enjoy the music !!

 

So how come you advertise your Brighton do as  ......

"BRIGHTON'S LEGENDARY DJs

SPINNING ORIGINAL 45s

NORTHERN/MOTOWN/R&B - (WITH STUFF IN-BETWEEN!)!" 

Soul bobbies might have a Perjury case in the making there ... :rolleyes:

 

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Posted

Okay, so the DJs play the music for the dancers to dance. The dancers are the "service users", what do they think? Do dancers really care whether its OV, a boot, or even a download, as long as the music moves their feet? After all, that's what they go for.  A good DJ is someone who keeps the floor full, creates a good atmosphere with their choice of music, and most importantly, for me, doesn't talk too much.  Do dancers care about the mode of recording? Wouldn't they rather dance to a good "download" than a mind numbing original 7" of no quality whatsoever.  Are DJs sometimes more concerned about competing for "who's got the best" rather than "who IS the best"?  Maybe?  And sometimes......the sound system let's everybody down anyway by making the finest recording sound like it's being played through a tin can in an aircraft hangar.  

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Posted

It's about taking a pride in doing things properly.

Does anybody take pride in wearing a counterfeit watch? 

Anyone who plays boots knows the score - that's why we keep getting these threads seeking change and approval 😑

 

 

 

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Posted
13 minutes ago, flamingemeralds said:

Do dancers really care whether its OV, a boot, or even a download, as long as the music moves their feet?

depends on the event doesn't it - charge me good money to attend a big niter/weekender I expect to the hear the original source, but for local pub/club do's I don't give a crap as long as it's a licensed version of the music

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Posted

OK, very much like Chalky, who BTW is very much on the other side of this argument to myself, I'll have a wee nibble. AND NO MORE!

In answer to your central point, let me just say this. If you think you're going to get an answer to the question "Whats more important, the sound or the label", you're going to wait an eternity. I've been asking it time and time again on various threads which touch on this whole OVO thing, and no-one has yet given me a straight answer. 

(The actual answer, is the sound, not the f***ing label. Has been since the late 60's, and always f***ing will be). 

I'm outta here. Been in this place far too often 🙂 

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Posted

This scene was and still is to myself and many others mainly a nighter fuelled scene where it was expected and virtually demanded that the music is played in its  original format be it a Test pressing, studio acetate , demo or issue or  sometimes a LP track . And the dancers expect the same 

If I want to listen to downloads or YouTube or whatever   , I can do that at home or friends houses without going out. 

Principles matter in my opinion

Steve

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Posted

Further to my earlier post I collected the WHOLE  UK Motown collection ( Lps, Eps and 45s 1959-71) I also collected a substantial Sue, Atlantic and Stax collection.  I have also written many soul related articles for Record Collector magazine so  I’m afraid I can hardly  be accused on not understanding  the dedication and commitment in collecting rare records. My point is why would I want to risk damaging or having a rare record stolen ( which does happen) taking it to a ‘do’.  I am also a record dealer at fairs and work in a collectors record shop so I see ‘dedication and commitment’ nearly every day

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, bilkoba said:

My point is why would I want to risk damaging or having a rare record stolen ( which does happen) taking it to a ‘do’

as I said above it depends on the kind of do, and how you advertise it - so if you sold it as  "soul night" at your local club then fine play licenced re-issues and originals/cd's whatever, but if you advertised it as 'we are the best DJ's ever SPINNING ORIGINAL 45s ' and then played anything less, well, not good

Edited by shufflin
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Posted
2 minutes ago, bilkoba said:

. My point is why would I want to risk damaging or having a rare record stolen ( which does happen) taking it to a ‘do’.  I am also a record dealer at fairs and work in a collectors record shop so I see ‘dedication and commitment’ nearly every day

I DJ,ed at many of the bigger nighter venues and most Promoters had spare heads / cartridge's for the decks so there was never a problem damaging the records , occasionally you would get someone tripping or accidentally knocking the decks but I have never to my knowledge have it damage a record . Never had a record stolen either.

Ive also match  fished at the top level where my latest roach pole cost me £4500 Its a tool to catch fish, pushing it through brambles ,on barbed wire fences , Its there to be used just like the records are to be used to play the music 

Steve

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Joey said:

OK, very much like Chalky, who BTW is very much on the other side of this argument to myself, I'll have a wee nibble. AND NO MORE!

In answer to your central point, let me just say this. If you think you're going to get an answer to the question "Whats more important, the sound or the label", you're going to wait an eternity. I've been asking it time and time again on various threads which touch on this whole OVO thing, and no-one has yet given me a straight answer. 

(The actual answer, is the sound, not the f***ing label. Has been since the late 60's, and always f***ing will be). 

I'm outta here. Been in this place far too often 🙂 

Agree with you to a point mate it is the sound not the label that matters, but...... if you went to an art gallery wouldnt you be a biy piss*d off if many or all of the exhibits were copies, even though they look exzctly the same? I'll get me coat................

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Posted (edited)

Manship did a good video in 2018 demonstrating the poor sound quality of bootleg 45's relative to originals so there is that too

 

Edited by shufflin
added video link
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Posted

If it's free to get in, play what you like.

Charge an entry fee more than the cost of a pint and your on thin ice....

OVO or might as well take along your lappy with the top 5000....and put it on shuffle. 

Ed

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Posted
1 hour ago, bilkoba said:

Im afraid I can hardly be accused on not understanding  the dedication and commitment in collecting rare records. 

Im sorry but if you understand  why did you start a thread questioning that very same dedication and commitment which the Northern Soul scene prides itself on in the first place then? 

And to reiterate what @Winsford Soul. stated previously, if it's a well organized event the promoters would have spare heads or stylus etcetera so there wouldn't be an issue with records getting damaged.

I'll go one step further here and say that every single DJ I know on the Hip Hop scene who's worth their salt and who plays out regularly (and believe me, I know a lot of DJs)wouldn't be seen dead without their own carts or needles safe in the knowledge that spinning their rare or precious records wont be an issue..I also know DJs who will take their own Technics turntables to the venue for extra reassurance when it comes to spinning their vinyl.

If you're playing a set down at the local Dog & Duck on a Friday night it's obviously a different matter altogether though, play cd's, reissues or whatever....hell, if it was me who was doing a spot the punters would be lucky if I turned up with a tape machine and a box of cassettes stuffed under my arm as far as I'm concerned. 

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1 hour ago, Winsford Soul said:

I DJ,ed at many of the bigger nighter venues and most Promoters had spare heads / cartridge's for the decks so there was never a problem damaging the records , occasionally you would get someone tripping or accidentally knocking the decks but I have never to my knowledge have it damage a record . Never had a record stolen either.

Ive also match  fished at the top level where my latest roach pole cost me £4500 Its a tool to catch fish, pushing it through brambles ,on barbed wire fences , Its there to be used just like the records are to be used to play the music 

Steve

I thought the Eastern Europeans were cheap to employ??! Seriously, if we think vinyl prices are crazy at the moment then 4.5k for a fish removal stick is bloody crazy!

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Modularman said:

I thought the Eastern Europeans were cheap to employ??! Seriously, if we think vinyl prices are crazy at the moment then 4.5k for a fish removal stick is bloody crazy!

16 metres of the finest carbon fibre which is what you pay for. There are more expensive and cheaper grades of carbon but the price reflects that. 

Steve 

PS. My latest camera lens is double that. Like everything in life,  you get what you pay for 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

16 metres of the finest carbon fibre which is what you pay for. There are more expensive and cheaper grades of carbon but the price reflects that. 

Steve 

PS. My latest camera lens is double that. Like everything in life,  you get what you pay for 

My better half is a photographer so I can appreciate the price of lenses (extortionate) but 4.5k for a stick to remove a fish from its natural habitat to dry land is insane!!

PS: she has also recentley dropped her 'camera' for her mobile phone to take pictures and they are fantastic none the less, she takes mainly macro images.

Edited by Modularman

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Posted
2 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

This scene was and still is to myself and many others mainly a nighter fuelled scene where it was expected and virtually demanded that the music is played in its  original format be it a Test pressing, studio acetate , demo or issue or  sometimes a LP track . And the dancers expect the same 

If I want to listen to downloads or YouTube or whatever   , I can do that at home or friends houses without going out. 

Principles matter in my opinion

Steve

A lot of what was played all those years ago were on U.K. labels, now we ( nearly) only accept the U.S. labels.

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Posted
2 hours ago, bilkoba said:

Further to my earlier post I collected the WHOLE  UK Motown collection ( Lps, Eps and 45s 1959-71) I also collected a substantial Sue, Atlantic and Stax collection.  I have also written many soul related articles for Record Collector magazine so  I’m afraid I can hardly  be accused on not understanding  the dedication and commitment in collecting rare records. My point is why would I want to risk damaging or having a rare record stolen ( which does happen) taking it to a ‘do’.  I am also a record dealer at fairs and work in a collectors record shop so I see ‘dedication and commitment’ nearly every day

I have asked this before and got shot down but i will try again.

I have a very rare record worth £1000's, i know that i will never get another copy.

Can i play a re-issue and hold my original up for the punters to see. 

If not why would i even think about playing my treasured original?

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Never mind Dry January and Ocsober, I'm looking forward to Novomber (No OVO threads by meMBERs).

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Posted
2 hours ago, bilkoba said:

Further to my earlier post I collected the WHOLE  UK Motown collection ( Lps, Eps and 45s 1959-71) I also collected a substantial Sue, Atlantic and Stax collection.  I have also written many soul related articles for Record Collector magazine so  I’m afraid I can hardly  be accused on not understanding  the dedication and commitment in collecting rare records. My point is why would I want to risk damaging or having a rare record stolen ( which does happen) taking it to a ‘do’.  I am also a record dealer at fairs and work in a collectors record shop so I see ‘dedication and commitment’ nearly every day

Really don't think you do get, what many mean on here mean, in relation to collecting. It's about chasing sounds, for what's in the grooves, not because it's on a UK demo. Looking for something that's not known to many, invariably comes in its original format. At has always been about chasing cool, and unknown records, to cherish and hopefully share, that's what had driven up till it's death a few years back, I say that last bit with tongue firmly in cheek, the scene's epitaph has yet to be written. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, flamingemeralds said:

 

Accidental quote sorry 

Edited by Mark S

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Posted
5 hours ago, gogs said:

I have asked this before and got shot down but i will try again.

I have a very rare record worth £1000's, i know that i will never get another copy.

Can i play a re-issue and hold my original up for the punters to see. 

If not why would i even think about playing my treasured original?

WHAT is this record you're so concerned about..if you dont mind me asking ?

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Posted
6 hours ago, gogs said:

A lot of what was played all those years ago were on U.K. labels, now we ( nearly) only accept the U.S. labels.

Load of rubbish.  Non US labels are as popular as ever with collectors and Djs.

Lps are also quite rightly beginning to feature more and more. 

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Posted
8 hours ago, soulatthedale said:

Agree with you to a point mate it is the sound not the label that matters, but...... if you went to an art gallery wouldnt you be a biy piss*d off if many or all of the exhibits were copies, even though they look exzctly the same? I'll get me coat................

Point taken, but........

This thread once again conflates two very different things, i.e., the collecting of rare records, and the playing of tunes to dance to. if you think about it for a moment, both activities appear to have been merged in the last forty odd years, and now seem to be inseparable, but are in themselves completely different activities.  For the benefit of others who may have missed this the first time around, I'll reiterate what I have said previously.

We now live in a very different world than in 73. No longer do we struggle to find rare records, as we can access so many ways of doing so. Nor do we all have to live on £1.25 a bloody week. Most of us are now far more successful and wealthy than we could have dreamt of back then. This has led to a plethora of guys who fancy themselves as DJs. Bloody hundreds of the buggers, if not thousands. All with money to burn, and a box full of four figure records, (mainly shite). And many, if not all, focussed on willy waving about it. 

Back in the early days of the scene, pre-76, EVERYONE used boots. Boots, pressings, emi-discs, re-issues, the lot. Some more than others, obviously. I know this as a fact, as I actually sold emi-discs to one or two high profile DJs. And the name of one of those DJs would surprise many on this forum. (Nope, no names no pack drill). And you know why they did this? To get people on the floor, dancing to a tune they couldn't dance to in other places. NOT, I may add, to stand around drooling and playing with themselves at the sight of a label. Oh, and one more thing. One or two of those DJs, including ones who are now seen as absolute Gods, were actually heavily involved in booting, for their own financial reward. 

I never gave a toss as to what format I was playing tunes via when DJ-ing. Funny thing was, neither did any of the punters at the time. They, for some strange reason, just wanted to dance and have a great time. We must have been so naive back then, eh? (And yes, I know, understand, and agree with the whole royalties thing). 

Sound quality. Agree with the poster, but with a slight qualification. Some of the old original Soul Sounds boots were actually of a higher sound quality than the original issues. The Invitations immediately springs to mind. Much better on SS than on Stateside.

Safety and security. I couldn't agree more. Once again I ask, why would I risk losing, damaging, or being "relieved of" a Hoagy Lands or Rufus Lumley Stateside issue or a Sandy Wynns UK disc, when I could DJ with an Out Of The Past model? Once again, everyone danced. No-one complained. This again goes back to collecting versus DJ-ing. 

I could go on and on, but I won't. This subject has been covered ad nauseam on this forum, and by the looks of this thread, already will continue to do so. I accept I'm in the minority, but for the life of me cannot change my mind, so......

I'll ask everyone again. It's a very simple question which should answer this whole debate. Whats more important, the label or the tune? Do you want to attend events merely to slobber and masturbate over a moving picture on a screen behind or to the side of the DJ, or do you want to hear the best music in the world, and dance your little tits off?

It's in the grooves what counts people, and always has been!

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Posted

OVO is always preferable but I'm more concerned these days on 'What's' being played rather than it's format.

Endless repeated shite is still endless repeated  shite no matter how original the Vinyl.

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Joey said:

Point taken, but........

This thread once again conflates two very different things, i.e., the collecting of rare records, and the playing of tunes to dance to. if you think about it for a moment, both activities appear to have been merged in the last forty odd years, and now seem to be inseparable, but are in themselves completely different activities.  For the benefit of others who may have missed this the first time around, I'll reiterate what I have said previously.

We now live in a very different world than in 73. No longer do we struggle to find rare records, as we can access so many ways of doing so. Nor do we all have to live on £1.25 a bloody week. Most of us are now far more successful and wealthy than we could have dreamt of back then. This has led to a plethora of guys who fancy themselves as DJs. Bloody hundreds of the buggers, if not thousands. All with money to burn, and a box full of four figure records, (mainly shite). And many, if not all, focussed on willy waving about it. 

Back in the early days of the scene, pre-76, EVERYONE used boots. Boots, pressings, emi-discs, re-issues, the lot. Some more than others, obviously. I know this as a fact, as I actually sold emi-discs to one or two high profile DJs. And the name of one of those DJs would surprise many on this forum. (Nope, no names no pack drill). And you know why they did this? To get people on the floor, dancing to a tune they couldn't dance to in other places. NOT, I may add, to stand around drooling and playing with themselves at the sight of a label. Oh, and one more thing. One or two of those DJs, including ones who are now seen as absolute Gods, were actually heavily involved in booting, for their own financial reward. 

I never gave a toss as to what format I was playing tunes via when DJ-ing. Funny thing was, neither did any of the punters at the time. They, for some strange reason, just wanted to dance and have a great time. We must have been so naive back then, eh? (And yes, I know, understand, and agree with the whole royalties thing). 

Sound quality. Agree with the poster, but with a slight qualification. Some of the old original Soul Sounds boots were actually of a higher sound quality than the original issues. The Invitations immediately springs to mind. Much better on SS than on Stateside.

Safety and security. I couldn't agree more. Once again I ask, why would I risk losing, damaging, or being "relieved of" a Hoagy Lands or Rufus Lumley Stateside issue or a Sandy Wynns UK disc, when I could DJ with an Out Of The Past model? Once again, everyone danced. No-one complained. This again goes back to collecting versus DJ-ing. 

I could go on and on, but I won't. This subject has been covered ad nauseam on this forum, and by the looks of this thread, already will continue to do so. I accept I'm in the minority, but for the life of me cannot change my mind, so......

I'll ask everyone again. It's a very simple question which should answer this whole debate. Whats more important, the label or the tune? Do you want to attend events merely to slobber and masturbate over a moving picture on a screen behind or to the side of the DJ, or do you want to hear the best music in the world, and dance your little tits off?

It's in the grooves what counts people, and always has been!

I remember that 'era' as well and you're quite right in what you're saying for the most part.....However a LOT has happened since then, people have developed 'styles' of music they like, people have developed into collectors. in short now we are in 2019.. the scene has evolved and is still evolving (some may not like it I agree)...If the 'nostalgic model' you describe from the early to mid 70's was followed religiously, we'd all end up 70's stereotypes............but the important  point I'm making is that in 2019....things have changed...not least we're adults now....we have opinions..we make choices

 

YES it IS what's in the groove that counts !! BUT is it so 'anti-social..is it so wrong that some people choose to hear 'that groove; coming from an original record..its still the same sound....

Edited by jez jones
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Posted
7 hours ago, Modularman said:

My better half is a photographer so I can appreciate the price of lenses (extortionate) but 4.5k for a stick to remove a fish from its natural habitat to dry land is insane!!

PS: she has also recentley dropped her 'camera' for her mobile phone to take pictures and they are fantastic none the less, she takes mainly macro images.

You will have to post some of the pictures in the photography thread on here. I don't own a macro lens , I only have 3 lenses.  2 wildlife/ bird ones and a landscape one. 

Steve 

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Posted
7 hours ago, gogs said:

A lot of what was played all those years ago were on U.K. labels, now we ( nearly) only accept the U.S. labels.

I've always been open to whatever was available UK,  US,  Australian,  etc generally UK was better quality anyway 

Steve 

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Posted
21 minutes ago, jez jones said:

I remember that 'era' as well and you're quite right in what you're saying for the most part.....However a LOT has happened since then, people have developed 'styles' of music they like, people have developed into collectors. in short now we are in 2019.. the scene has evolved and is still evolving (some may not like it I agree)...If the 'nostalgic model' you describe from the early to mid 70's was followed religiously, we'd all end up stereotypically wearing vast trousers and taking an adidas bag out with us, wherever we went....(again some like it, some don't)... and indeed I know quite a few people who wear the gear BUT importantly have evolved with the scene and are valuable contributors still...............but the important  point I'm making is that in 2019....things have changed...not least we're adults now....we have opinions..we make choices

 

YES it IS what's in the groove that counts !! BUT is it so 'anti-social..is it so wrong that some people choose to hear 'that groove; coming from an original record..its still the same sound....

I'm perfectly happy for others to have an opposing view to mine. Especially on this subject. However, I feel that the whole collecting/playing thing has been completely conflated. They are two different activities. Always have been. You're correct in saying this is 2019 and not 1972. We now appear to be far more "woke" about everything. Or at least that's what most people advertise themselves as being. Whether they REALLY care or  not is another matter altogether. And anti-social? I fail to understand what you're saying. No-one, least of all me, is saying that its wrong to hear the sound played on its original format/label. Quite the opposite actually, as in fact its members saying that its wrong to hear the sound played from anything BUT its original format/label. A viewpoint I fail completely to understand or comprehend. It's very easy, as a collector who has invested many thousands of pounds into his collection, to insist that a DJ only plays OVO. But I have always maintained that a collector is not necessarily a DJ, nor a DJ a collector. One has an expensive hobby, one has a job.

It's too early. I'm beginning to drift off on a tangent here. And I'm bored by the whole subject. I really do wish it was 1972 again...... 🙂 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Joey said:

I'm perfectly happy for others to have an opposing view to mine. Especially on this subject. However, I feel that the whole collecting/playing thing has been completely conflated. They are two different activities. Always have been. You're correct in saying this is 2019 and not 1972. We now appear to be far more "woke" about everything. Or at least that's what most people advertise themselves as being. Whether they REALLY care or  not is another matter altogether. And anti-social? I fail to understand what you're saying. No-one, least of all me, is saying that its wrong to hear the sound played on its original format/label. Quite the opposite actually, as in fact its members saying that its wrong to hear the sound played from anything BUT its original format/label. A viewpoint I fail completely to understand or comprehend. It's very easy, as a collector who has invested many thousands of pounds into his collection, to insist that a DJ only plays OVO. But I have always maintained that a collector is not necessarily a DJ, nor a DJ a collector. One has an expensive hobby, one has a job.

It's too early. I'm beginning to drift off on a tangent here. And I'm bored by the whole subject. I really do wish it was 1972 again...... 🙂 

I really do wish it was 1972 again...... 🙂..

 

.and me lol !!

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, jez jones said:

I really do wish it was 1972 again...... 🙂..

 

.and me lol !!

 

No. I was to young. :P

Steve 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

No. I was to young. :P

Steve 

you were ..but a 'twinkle' in ya fathers eye Steve 🙂

Edited by jez jones

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Posted (edited)

As said it is a different world today.  In the beginning records were scarce, originals extremely hard to come by.  Cuts/carvers/emidisc whatever you wish to call them were made to play extremely rare records, even in the 80s (Jackie Day Naughty Boy springs to mind with just one known copy at the time).

Today, even the rarest records can be heard up and down the country so there really is no need to go down the bootleg route.

There are far too many events, far too many Djs with nothing to iffer that isn’t already on offer, far too man with no imagination.  Far too many spiv promoters ith second rate equipment in a shit hole of a flea infested venue. 

Do we really need 30 odd venues within an hour or so of each other, no we don’t. it is time some started to look at the bigger picture and not their selfish selves.  I’m involved in a sales group elsewhere and to join you have to answer questions about your involvement and the number who say they are a Dj is laughable. 

It is time more professionalism was brougt to the scene, time more imagination was brought to the fore, then the scene might just flourish and entice more and more newcomers to enjoy what we have for decades. 

Stop harking back to your youth, I’d like nothing more than how it was in my youth but it ain’t going to happen. 

Edited by chalky
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Posted

Original Threads Only please

 

 

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Posted
10 hours ago, soulatthedale said:

Agree with you to a point mate it is the sound not the label that matters, but...... if you went to an art gallery wouldnt you be a biy piss*d off if many or all of the exhibits were copies, even though they look exzctly the same? I'll get me coat................

Just to revisit this, and the analogy used. Most people cannot afford their own Warhol/Dali/Picasso original. But they can afford officially numbered/signed prints. I have several Miro prints, valued quite highly, but could never afford an original canvas. I have a Dali etching, but could never afford a Dali canvas. I have a Warhol print, (signed), but could never in my dreams afford a Warhol canvas. Are my prints actually boots/re-issues? Does it matter?  They give me joy when I look at them, much the same as the joy I feel when I hear Duke Browner played.... ON ANY FORMAT.

Bugger. I really did mean to body swerve this latest OVO thing. Now look where I am......! 🙂 

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4 minutes ago, Joey said:

Just to revisit this, and the analogy used. Most people cannot afford their own Warhol/Dali/Picasso original. But they can afford officially numbered/signed prints. I have several Miro prints, valued quite highly, but could never afford an original canvas. I have a Dali etching, but could never afford a Dali canvas. I have a Warhol print, (signed), but could never in my dreams afford a Warhol canvas. Are my prints actually boots/re-issues? Does it matter?  They give me joy when I look at them, much the same as the joy I feel when I hear Duke Browner played.... ON ANY FORMAT.

Bugger. I really did mean to body swerve this latest OVO thing. Now look where I am......! 🙂 

Yes you might have prints because you can’t afford the original BUT you don’t open a gallery and show them off 

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12 hours ago, bilkoba said:

I dj at soul nights in the south and people don’t give a toss whether you are playing an original issue, re-issue or god forbid a ‘boot’

Well I know a fair few people in the south who do care!   If promoters/dj's believe people dont care then why have i never seen a flyer advertising "We play bootlegs of all the big sounds".   or why i've never heard a dj stating "oh yes i always play bootlegs"  etc...      so to me it is about being honest to the punters - advertise it as it is. Dont complain if i give it a miss though.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, chalky said:

Yes you might have prints because you can’t afford the original BUT you don’t open a gallery and show them off 

I'm sorry, but you are so wrong! Yes, the original canvases are displayed in many of the worlds leading galleries, but many minor galleries do display prints, some of which are incredibly rare and expensive. The Warhol "Sunday B Morning" prints immediately spring to mind. I have even loaned prints of my own to local galleries for exhibitions. The point I was making was that its not the best analogy!

Oh, and if he were still alive, I'd lay good money on Warhol actually celebrating his works being "booted". 

Maybe we should open a new tread if we're going to debate the vagaries of the modern and/or contemporary art scene? I'd have LOTS to say about that charlatan Hirst !!!!!!

Edited by Joey

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8 hours ago, gogs said:

 

If not why would i even think about playing my treasured original?

What do you think your ‘treasured original’ is?

It’s a record, it’s meant to be played. In fact it doesn’t really exist for any other reason. 

If you had an original oil painting would you put a print on display? With a little sign by it saying “I do have the original painting”

Of course you wouldn’t. 

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11 hours ago, bilkoba said:

Further to my earlier post I collected the WHOLE  UK Motown collection ( Lps, Eps and 45s 1959-71) I also collected a substantial Sue, Atlantic and Stax collection.  I have also written many soul related articles for Record Collector magazine so  I’m afraid I can hardly  be accused on not understanding  the dedication and commitment in collecting rare records. My point is why would I want to risk damaging or having a rare record stolen ( which does happen) taking it to a ‘do’.  I am also a record dealer at fairs and work in a collectors record shop so I see ‘dedication and commitment’ nearly every day

You must have thousands of great but cheapish records in your collection - I would much rather come to a do and hear you put a set together of those than hear you play boots/re-issues of other 'big records'.  So you (or anyone else) doesn't need to play boots or 'risk their valuable records' (although for me I think they are to be played). 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Dave Rimmer said:

What do you think your ‘treasured original’ is?

It’s a record, it’s meant to be played. In fact it doesn’t really exist for any other reason. 

If you had an original oil painting would you put a print on display? With a little sign by it saying “I do have the original painting”

Of course you wouldn’t. 

I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of your reply. As for the second part, you really couldn't be more wrong, as it happens all the time in the art world. In fact, as far as one-upmanship, snobbery, lunacy, and people generally being so far up themselves they almost disappear, the art world is the only scene which can compare to the Northern scene!

Edited by Joey

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Lets put it another way....lets say we've got a magic wand and we could wave it at all the bootleg/reissue type events and they were no more...would the scene suffer?? Would the paying punter feel short changed..I suspect the answer would be NO

Those that want to hear their faves all night..could do...Those that like to hear original records played..could do....Those that wanna hear something a bit different ..could do

I can't see anything really positive about supporting bootleg/re issue nights.....after all there is an original of a record out there somewhere if you ..just look

 

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Posted

 

20 minutes ago, chalky said:

Yes you might have prints because you can’t afford the original BUT you don’t open a gallery and show them off 

 

Yes, you do. As a universally acknowledged and appreciated art form, prints are highly collectable. Galleries all over the world show them off, as do museums.

Indeed, given @Joey's interest in Miro, he might well be interested in this exhibition of the artist's prints, which currently taking place in Paris.

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Unless you can go on ebay and buy one of these prints for say £10 then although I know nothing about collecting paintings I dont think the analogy works. The bootlegs/re-issues being talked about being played are not some special kind of product they are mostly churned out in numbers and freely available to anyone to purchase (unfortunately as seen with recent case on this).

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