Hi 

I would like to start a ‘thread’ regarding  what appears to be the now almost ubiquitous ‘ ovo’ mandate for northern soul nights. My background is not so much northern but Motown/Stax/Atlantic/Sue. etc and have been a devotee of that music for 50 years. Motown’s motto was ‘It’s in the groove what counts ‘ but it appears that the northern scene is going back to the dark old days where ‘exclusivity’ruled and the record became more important than the music. I dj at soul nights in the south and people don’t give a toss whether you are playing an original issue, re-issue or god forbid a ‘boot’ A certain dj down our way won’t allow fellow dj’s to play anything other than originals! 

Can we please keep things in perspective and just enjoy the music !!

 

4 minutes ago, Soulsides said:

 Its the master recording of a composition which is the true OVO in my opinion  as everything else is, in reality, just a copy of those masters regardless of the format its then transferred to.   .

 

 

logically very true, can't argue - but  in terms of OVO, it gets complicated

it only gets simple when we are talking about rare & really small number of issued records, otherwise we get into US vs British, vs 'international' releases, legit 2nd presses etc

LP tracks which are 'relatively cheap' vs the 45 which is very expensive (even if the LP came first or at more or less the same time)

imo it's all about elitism, snobbery, even if it's illogical - BUT also about protecting the heritage and validity of the scene

 

5 minutes ago, shufflin said:

logically very true, can't argue - but  in terms of OVO, it gets complicated

Yeah,absolutely.I was looking at it more from a technical point of view..apologies, it's just my audio engineering background raising its nerdy head to be honest!

3 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

What with a £4500 roach pole. 🤣

Steve

Thankfully i can get a good fly fishing rod for about £300

My turn to go of topic (sorry babyboy)

18 hours ago, jez jones said:

WHAT is this record you're so concerned about..if you dont mind me asking ?

It's - In my dreams by the hypotheticals on the Wish list label

5 hours ago, gogs said:

It's - In my dreams by the hypotheticals on the Wish list label

aahh right....was it a c/u at Wiggin ...... One day you'll be mine--Billy Believe and the Hopefuls 🙂   🙂  🙂

8 hours ago, shufflin said:

logically very true, can't argue - but  in terms of OVO, it gets complicated

 

I think it is a very simple concept, it is just those attempting to justify something that complicate matters. 

its a bit like religion, no amount of logic or discussing makes any difference to anyone, you either believe in it & follow it as best you can or you dont. As it happens I do believe in it ..............(ovo that is not religion).

Edited January 25, 20196 yr by bbrich

Collecting original records can take over your life!     

12 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

I've always been fishing ,well since I was five. Brought up on ponds and canals in the north west. 

Steve 

Sorry about the off topic reply 

There's a lot of fishing on here.

1 hour ago, bbrich said:

its a bit like religion, no amount of logic or discussing makes any difference to anyone, you either believe in it & follow it as best you can or you dont. As it happens I do believe in it ..............(ovo that is not religion).

I gave up trying to convince anyone its the right way to go. I do what I do.

9 minutes ago, KevH said:

There's a lot of fishing on here.

I prefer carp fishing for wild carp in french rivers (as opposed to stocked fish in commercial waters) = OFO  (original fish only)

I'd rather listen to a good DJ playing reissues than a bad one playing "OVO".

I've got an original painting by Charles Seliger and a numbered print by Wu Guanzhong in my living room.

I spend more time looking at the print, but if I could only own one of them it would be the painting.

 

 

 

Does anyone smell their records or is it just me.?

23 minutes ago, KevH said:

There's a lot of fishing on here.

Aye Kev. We can't help ourselves 😀

33 minutes ago, KevH said:

Does anyone smell their records or is it just me.?

once they are within about 400 yards away when the postman is on his way to delivering one.

3 hours ago, bbrich said:

I prefer carp fishing for wild carp in french rivers (as opposed to stocked fish in commercial waters) = OFO  (original fish only)

 River wild British Barbel only   OBO 🐟🤪🐟

3 hours ago, KevH said:

Does anyone smell their records or is it just me.?

No,I put the them on the turntable...

3 hours ago, KevH said:

Does anyone smell their records or is it just me.?

No, but I wish I could train a dog to smell them so I can track some down around the neighbourhood.

Got a mate who is into older women, said he operates a strict ovo policy.

7 hours ago, Jimmy Disco D said:

I'd rather listen to a good DJ playing reissues than a bad one playing "OVO".

Personally I'd rather listen to a good DJ playing top class 'OVO' than a bad one playing boots ... 

Hence I shall be making a 4 hour drive up to North Wales tomorrow to hear the likes of Colin Law , Kitch , Roger Banks , Dean Anderson , Chris Anderton et al rather than wasting my time at some Mickey Mouse "Keep the Faith" soul night in a pub full of clown suits and piss'eads , and then counting down the days until the next 100 Club in February.

 

 I personaly don't get out to as many gigs as I should, however if I get even the slightest wiff that boots are being played at any soul night then I don't go, for the simple I want to listen to interesting sets made up of music thats inovative, new to me, 'not heard that for a while', something that stimulates my little soul cells.That policy applies to all genres with me, northern, crossover, sweet, deep and off cause new releases .People who play boots just dont have that in their locker, in many cases the reason they are playing a boot is because their knowledge is so backward they failed to buy an original ,when in many cases it was cheap. So as bad as they are, it's not the boot that's the real problem , but the person playing it. I would hate to think how many so called soul collectors are buying records simply to dj with. As Chalky mentioned, far to many second rate soul gigs run by guys who are also spinning and to far up their own arse to go and listen to someone else, in reality they want to listen to themselves with a pat on the back to boot, excuse the pun. 

8 hours ago, bbrich said:

once they are within about 400 yards away when the postman is on his way to delivering one.

😁😁😂😂

I totally agree with you fella, nobody gives a sh if it costs a quid or hundreds. Enjoy the whole scene ktf

10 hours ago, Jimmy Disco D said:

I'd rather listen to a good DJ playing reissues than a bad one playing "OVO".

I've got an original painting by Charles Seliger and a numbered print by Wu Guanzhong in my living room.

I spend more time looking at the print, but if I could only own one of them it would be the painting.

 

 

 

Good DJ’s NEVER play reissues, bootlegs or carvers. That’s partly why they are good DJ’s!

Any collector with original vinyl can get by DJing if they have some nous. Dancers attend venues to hear authentic records and can generally put up with mumbling, fumbling DJ’s if the sounds are decent.

10 hours ago, KevH said:

There's a lot of fishing on here.

Of course, it’s a Northern Sole website...

51 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Good DJ’s NEVER play reissues, bootlegs or carvers.

thanks for posting an opinion rather than a passive aggressive non answer

I'm still no wiser though, for example is OVO a 45 only or if the LP and 45 were released on same label around same time are they both OVO? I only ask after the Earnest Ernie thread where people seemed to only like the 45 and were not bothered about the LP it was released on months before (I own both)

I have Time by Edwin Starr on original Gordy 45 and LP - which is OVO? both presumably, or the 1970 UK release

same for The Voices Of East Harlem, Timi Yuro and others released on 45 & LP, or is it simply rarity that drives OVO, the 45 being rarer?

If it was released first in US, is the international (Brit/French/Aus etc) version a re-issue? and vice versa

Is an acetate always the OVO if the track got a 45 release?

 

Edited January 25, 20196 yr by Shufflin

11 hours ago, bbrich said:

I prefer carp fishing for wild carp in french rivers (as opposed to stocked fish in commercial waters) = OFO  (original fish only)

😂 Oh god, that's got me laughing out loud!!! 🤗

52 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Of course, it’s a Northern Sole website...

😂🤣 

3 hours ago, shufflin said:

thanks for posting an opinion rather than a passive aggressive non answer

I'm still no wiser though, for example is OVO a 45 only or if the LP and 45 were released on same label around same time are they both OVO? I only ask after the Earnest Ernie thread where people seemed to only like the 45 and were not bothered about the LP it was released on months before (I own both)

I have Time by Edwin Starr on original Gordy 45 and LP - which is OVO? both presumably, or the 1970 UK release

same for The Voices Of East Harlem, Timi Yuro and others released on 45 & LP, or is it simply rarity that drives OVO, the 45 being rarer?

If it was released first in US, is the international (Brit/French/Aus etc) version a re-issue? and vice versa

Is an acetate always the OVO if the track got a 45 release?

 

I'd say, realistically both lp and 45"s on original formats are accepted. But 45"s are generally more desirble: there louder and more convient to play as well as just being collectable. 

According to a quote from Richard Searling in Dave Nowells book, The story of Northern Soul, he was given acetates of stuff John Anderson had brought back from the USA between 77 and 81.

So the Maestro himself played carvers?

At least it saved covering up the original discs, but still, not OVO.....

Ed

 

5 hours ago, tomangoes said:

According to a quote from Richard Searling in Dave Nowells book, The story of Northern Soul, he was given acetates of stuff John Anderson had brought back from the USA between 77 and 81.

So the Maestro himself played carvers?

At least it saved covering up the original discs, but still, not OVO.....

Ed

 

I think he meant proper acetate.  Little Ann from John was a studio acetate, Eddie Parker also I think.

Emidiscs were certainly made at Wigan though.  But that was then when copies of certain records were scare, often one only.  Today most have been found with multiple copies.

12 hours ago, shufflin said:

thanks for posting an opinion rather than a passive aggressive non answer

I'm still no wiser though, for example is OVO a 45 only or if the LP and 45 were released on same label around same time are they both OVO? I only ask after the Earnest Ernie thread where people seemed to only like the 45 and were not bothered about the LP it was released on months before (I own both)

I have Time by Edwin Starr on original Gordy 45 and LP - which is OVO? both presumably, or the 1970 UK release

same for The Voices Of East Harlem, Timi Yuro and others released on 45 & LP, or is it simply rarity that drives OVO, the 45 being rarer?

If it was released first in US, is the international (Brit/French/Aus etc) version a re-issue? and vice versa

Is an acetate always the OVO if the track got a 45 release?

 

The original release in let's say America makes it the original release in that country . If it's released in let's say Australia either before or after the American release its still a original first release in that country.  Simple.  

Why do people try and complicate things 

Steve

4 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

The original release in let's say America makes it the original release in that country . If it's released in let's say Australia either before or after the American release its still a original first release in that country.  Simple.  

Why do people try and complicate things 

Steve

Exactly mate...another 4 pages of incoherent points of view. If any 'new blood' is to be attracted to the scene..then threads like this aint gonna help.

If you're gonna DJ..just play originals.. DONT play boots...develop your personal philosophy and stick to it

For a lot of us its only a hobby ...and for a lot of us it really isn't that difficult

 

Chalky hit the nail on the head on most of his posts.... and about everyone wanting to be a dj... in yorkshire this month on an already swamped venue scene there are 3 more NEW soul nights... and all catering for a crowd that will happily enjoy the big tunes and fiver reissues and care not one jot to what label its on.. and thats their choice

I can listen to a dj all night playing great tunes..  nothing wrong with the tunes ..... but its an empty "souless" act for me if the dj hasnt got it on an original format,  all this "its whats in the grooves" is relevant only to a section of the scene,  who i dont dispute are music lovers .. but not collectors or they would care about the format.

Myself and my friend Mark whiteley promoted the Friendship Pure soul nights for 11 years based on our priciples for OVO or original format only and thats where i stand, but ive been collecting for over 40 years from my paperboy days and i cant see it ending anytime soon but always looking for the right tune on the original labels

Collecting an original has also got nothing to do with being rich etc as ive seen thrashed out as an excuse as to why people dont buy originals, and yes the price has sored but there are plenty of cheap  fantastic originals around, but also i collect high price tunes and havent got a pot to piss in... i wait, save, trade, sell some stuff, to get that tune... many of my collecting friends are the same they arnt millionaires or even awash with cash, they have scrimped, paid on drip, (and would sell the wife if they could get enough for her LOL) and i see the passion in them as they chase that elusive real deal item... so when they dj and play the big sound that the £5 dj played at another night with no real effort.. theres Kudos and respect for the effort that person has given to give me the bonefide item and makes the tune just that bit more special. ...

Its an emotive subject.. but i just stay away from venues that dont give me the real deal.. and i let the masses enjoy what they enjoy.. im not saying that the folk going to the "anything goes nights" are not real music lovers, they must be or they wouldnt attend.. they just dont care how they hear it and that again is their choice...

So really its then down to the 3 trillion promotors running events in the UK to advertise your nights accordingly .. dont put OVO if you cant comply just advertise a "soul night" ... and then your giving me the heads up that its not one for me I'l be somewhere else listening to a penniless collector giving me  their passion for playing the real McCoy .... served up with an equal amount of admiration for said collector DJ from myself for his effort, sometimes pain and the journey theyve taken to get where they are.

Sub note

real deal Collector / dj .. one track £500 hard earned blood sweat tears and bullshitting the wife it was a fiver thats taken years of chasing to acquire.. and can deliver a  dj set based on a lifetimes dreams and hard work.........Admiration all round from me

An anything goes DJ... £500 for 100 records bought in half an hour off ebay, that can give the begging to DJ folk an instant big hitter, big tune set (included in the pack is the Real deal collectors tune that he spent years acquiring)... doesnt have the same ring really does it.....

 

 

 

Geeeeeoooooordie

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 20196 yr by geordiejohnson

A bit of informed comment on OVO threads.

 

So....

When these lucky blighters who found say, the tapes of Betty Boo - Say it isn't so.... They eventually got it on on grapevine 45 and compilation... 

Would they be OV or the test discs made from the tapes?

I heard her sing her song in Detroit in 2017 and must admit I never gave it a second thought..

But whilst we are on topic....whats the verdict, and this effects quite a few tracks now.

Ed

16 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

So....

When these lucky blighters who found say, the tapes of Betty Boo - Say it isn't so.... They eventually got it on on grapevine 45 and compilation... 

Would they be OV or the test discs made from the tapes?

I heard her sing her song in Detroit in 2017 and must admit I never gave it a second thought..

But whilst we are on topic....whats the verdict, and this effects quite a few tracks now.

Ed

I think chalky was right in what he said a billion posts ago... unissued, newly discovered tracks like what grapevine and kent have found can be played because they have never been issued before so it is the original release they were fully licensed, dottie pearson bring it over baby for example never released until grapevine 2000 when it is played out its only on that label... in many cases the tapes are getting to the point of deterioration  that if they dont get cut they will be lost forever, so as for whether it would be the discs cut from the tapes ... they would have been masters/tests for the releases so part of the production process for a bulk press so all legit just a nice to have if youve got a limited test press in your collection.

 

Geeoooooordie

Do I have to do all the thinking for you lot ? 😉  Its not difficult at all , definitive  answer the first issue that was available to buy in a shop .

 

🙄 Yeah I know demos and acetates just keeping it simple .

I called out a general party DJ on Facebook for playing a tired set of tunes from a laptop and got ripped to shreds for it from people suggesting that he can play what he wants from whatever format he wants.  I'm glad that proper DJ values are mostly adhered to on the soul scene and if I called out a DJ for playing from laptop or boots or whatever on here I'd be amongst like minded people mostly.

1 hour ago, BigGordy said:

I called out a general party DJ on Facebook for playing a tired set of tunes from a laptop and got ripped to shreds for it from people suggesting that he can play what he wants from whatever format he wants.  I'm glad that proper DJ values are mostly adhered to on the soul scene and if I called out a DJ for playing from laptop or boots or whatever on here I'd be amongst like minded people mostly.

For the general populus music is a disposable commodity with no real value or worth .

A workmate of mine thats into Northern said she was going to a Northern do the other week a laptop and cd dj do and that a guest dj was going to do a vinyl spot ,for once I was lost for words .

Is there any chance to ban "OVO" topics on Soul Source? I mean, it's all been said and typed and written and meant before. Just not by everyone. It seems. Discussion is always going round in circles. We agree to disagree. And so forth. Four pages of "yawn" material.

Ovo, personally for me its about the music but i fully understand the desire for ovo at major events etc. It's a dangerous watering down of the scene to ignore ovo as being part of a scene that has seen enough changes,  some good some not so good. 

WOW!!!

Hi everyone, I've literally just joined this site to get info and confirmation on some records found while clearing out. 

My first post was in relation to the absolutely amazing "If you ask me (because I love you) " by Jerry Williams, regarding the copy I have, and got directed to here. I have been absolutely immersed with all that's said, offered, discussed and reputed. If I may offer my "ha'pennies worth".

With the records I have, and in the past when I had a record player, I would play them so as to enjoy their distinct sound on vinyl. When going to nights, it was always a feeling of nostalgia to hear the crackle, the rawness of the vinyl (with occasionally the Dj messing up - and there's roar of both acknowledgement and let's start over) and 100% feel of being back in the day - that's how it was! 👍👌No 100% perfect sound, no 100% hiccup to interrupt you on the dance floor - just as you are about to throw your killer move!! I completely get anyone NOT wanting to play the original (so damn rare copy), and as collectors (in all forms), want to view, keep, treasure and enjoy solely for themselves, can I say after this probably unnecessary post - IF you are so very fortunate to have one of those very rare and collectible records, and you're a DJ doing the circuit..... PLAY THE SHIT OUT OF IT.... And let ALL of those hard core old skool "KEEPING THE FAITH" soul boys and girls relive that raw (never copied or replaced) sound that IS NORTHERN SOUL, and at the same time introduce and educate the newbies to the origins..... 

Also if anyone can help me please with my record... Very much appreciated 

Hugs

Andy (aka BearloverUK) 

On 24/01/2019 at 23:32, Soulsides said:

 Its the master recording of a composition which is the true OVO in my opinion  as everything else is, in reality, just a copy of those masters regardless of the format its then transferred to.   .

 

 

Surely acetates aren't vinyl, CDs are not vinyl, and MP3s are invisible !? So they can't really be OVO anyway ! (Even tho' I'd only attend events where sounds where spun on proper vinyl releases).

2 hours ago, HILL868 said:

Surely acetates aren't vinyl, CDs are not vinyl, and MP3s are invisible !? So they can't really be OVO anyway ! 

No, of course not .I was looking at it more from the technical aspect as I stated previously.

Sorry for any confusion!

On 24/01/2019 at 23:57, Soulsides said:

Yeah,absolutely.I was looking at it more from a technical point of view..apologies, it's just my audio engineering background raising its nerdy head to be honest!

 

3 hours ago, HILL868 said:

Surely acetates aren't vinyl, CDs are not vinyl, and MP3s are invisible !? So they can't really be OVO anyway ! (Even tho' I'd only attend events where sounds where spun on proper vinyl releases).

What’s wrong with an acetate? You gonna tell the likes of Butch,Ady or Andy Dyson etc they can’t play an avetate?

On 24/01/2019 at 23:32, Soulsides said:

 Its the master recording of a composition which is the true OVO in my opinion  as everything else is, in reality, just a copy of those masters regardless of the format its then transferred to.   .

 

 

I have no argument that the master recording is just that, the original master recording. 

But that’s not the original vinyl is it. It’s also not available for people to buy, and play, so in my opinion, the original master recording doesn’t enter into the question of original vinyl only

48 minutes ago, Dave Rimmer said:

But that’s not the original vinyl is it. 

Yes,you're correct it isn't.It's the master recording as I've already said, the original source material, not the original vinyl .

We're going round in circles here,if you'll excuse the pun!

Again this topic simply highlights how ridiculous some people are, won’t go anywhere that plays acetates, cds etc etc. How daft can this scene get.  Why not just put yer trust in the promoter and the Dj, most do it right and most of us know who do try to do it right.  As for master recording, don’t be so daft, its a dance scene and who on earth plays the tapes?

Just go out and enjoy yer sen rather putting stupid ridiculous rules in the way of others.  As I said most quote OVO for their own agenda and to make em look clever, most of us have got by pretty well for decades without the stupid term.  

Some of you want to take your heads out from up your arses before you disappear altogether.  

Edited February 11, 20196 yr by chalky

What's a OVO