What the hell is going on with the Joseph Webster??Do we have a new world price for a soul record??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313562802214?hash=item4901cca826:g:5OIAAOSwspBgw6ZN

That’s absolutely insane.Glad i didn’t sell my copy.I have been offered 8k for it last year and was close to sell.

Still absolutely ridiculous.Great tune though but don’t think worth that kind of money.

Curious to hear your thoughts about it.

 

On 18/06/2021 at 20:32, Ladymidnight said:

Also, most major UK dealers (not all!) are quite sloppy with their grading. For example, a M- could look like this:

Which dealer graded that as near mint?!

1 hour ago, Rich Buckley said:

Which dealer graded that as near mint?!

Initials PB

12 hours ago, Ladymidnight said:

Initials PB

Not that Pauline Bradshaw again.

I said ages ago standards were bound to drop once we allowed female sellers access to our closed shop.

22 minutes ago, Modernsoulsucks said:

Not that Pauline Bradshaw again.

I said ages ago standards were bound to drop once we allowed female sellers access to our closed shop.

Kin el Rod. They will be buying records next. 

6 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Kin el Rod. They will be buying records next. 

Slippery slope, mate.

Clare demanded I buy her twin decks for dj-ing.

Luckily I managed to replace one deck with a hot plate so at least it wasn't a complete waste of money as she can still rustle up a hot snack if I get peckish during her spot.

Edited June 20, 20213 yr by Modernsoulsucks

The winning bidder's feedback count matches the seller of the Sonic Wax version. 🧐

20 minutes ago, Nick Soule said:

The winning bidder's feedback count matches the seller of the Sonic Wax version. 🧐

Yep that’s him.Good job Nick 👍🏻

Thats Steve Jefferies.That guy has cash + his little millionaire son who purchased the Frank Wilson-do i love you through Manship for some ridiculous amount.From what i heard the Sonic Wax Pressing is weak quality + no instrumental on the flip which makes me think he never got the record.Probably some poor recording from mp3 or someone sent him the recording of the song.

Maybe he plans to do a better bootleg of it 🤔???

54 minutes ago, Nick Soule said:

The winning bidder's feedback count matches the seller of the Sonic Wax version. 🧐

And also matches the feedback rating of the winning bidder of the Hamilton Movement’s ‘She’s Gone’. Baffled why the buyer went for this copy when there’s a far better one on Manship’s auction. I suspect the mystery buyer will also grab the Manship copy for keeps and put the rough spare in his shop window. I think we were speculating about the same buyer in another thread a few weeks ago but I can’t remember the the record in question.

1 hour ago, Nick Soule said:

The winning bidder's feedback count matches the seller of the Sonic Wax version. 🧐

I-20 Connection too. I guess he's on a buying spree today. 

36 minutes ago, laparis said:

Yep that’s him.Good job Nick 👍🏻

Thats Steve Jefferies.That guy has cash + his little millionaire son who purchased the Frank Wilson-do i love you through Manship for some ridiculous amount.From what i heard the Sonic Wax Pressing is weak quality + no instrumental on the flip which makes me think he never got the record.Probably some poor recording from mp3 or someone sent him the recording of the song.

Maybe he plans to do a better bootleg of it 🤔???

It will be a legal reissue if he has the copyright. I mentioned this consideration a short while ago. While we humble collectors want the records to play, some entrepreneurs need a top copy in the absence of master-tapes if the plan is to reissue the track.

5 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

And also matches the feedback rating of the winning bidder of the Hamilton Movement’s ‘She’s Gone’. Baffled why the buyer went for this copy when there’s a far better one on Manship’s auction. I suspect the mystery buyer will also grab the Manship copy for keeps and put the rough spare in his shop window. I think we were speculating about the same buyer in another thread a few weeks ago but I can’t remember the the record in question.

This time next month that Hamilton Movement will be up for sale on rarenorthernsoul.com for 8 grand in M- condition 🤔

Can’t understand all the negativity regarding JW price , considering a knackered Hamilton Movement goes for over 5, grand 

Edited June 20, 20213 yr by Paul Shirley

On 20/06/2021 at 16:36, laparis said:

Yep that’s him.Good job Nick 👍🏻

Thats Steve Jefferies.That guy has cash + his little millionaire son who purchased the Frank Wilson-do i love you through Manship for some ridiculous amount.From what i heard the Sonic Wax Pressing is weak quality + no instrumental on the flip which makes me think he never got the record.Probably some poor recording from mp3 or someone sent him the recording of the song.

Maybe he plans to do a better bootleg of it 🤔???

I can assure you Jeffries did have a copy of J Webster because I bought it off him,

Edited June 28, 20213 yr by Paul Shirley

1 minute ago, Paul Shirley said:

I can assure you Jeffries did have a copy of J Webster because I bought it !! 

Maybe he forgot to record the instrumental side so now another copy is needed. I’ve heard he has really rare records mounted in picture frames. Any record that books below £100 is moulded into an ashtray or nut-dish. Two servants are employed on minimum wage to clean and polish the records that arrive by container each day. The pupils at the local secondary school who design the website had their coursework marks downgraded for making a dogs-dinner of the home page by mixing up tatty imports, karaoke recordings, 60’s non-chart pop tunes and new collectable British releases of unissued songs.

Same buyer bought IJ Harris as well 

26 minutes ago, Ted Massey said:

Same buyer bought IJ Harris as well 

Well spotted Ted. I’ve had my eye on this one since I first heard Joel play it out. I think he got his copy from Mark. This must be third copy to have surfaced on the open market in the last three years. With the auction far from over, you’ll need a calculator to assess the damage. So far, single bids of what must be massive proportions wiping out all contenders.

1 hour ago, Paul Shirley said:

I can assure you Jeffries did have a copy of J Webster because I bought it !! 

Was that the copy from the label stock that surfaced a while back?

 

Edited June 20, 20213 yr by Chalky

On 16/06/2021 at 17:53, laparis said:

What the hell is going on with the Joseph Webster??Do we have a new world price for a soul record??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313562802214?hash=item4901cca826:g:5OIAAOSwspBgw6ZN

That’s absolutely insane.Glad i didn’t sell my copy.I have been offered 8k for it last year and was close to sell.

Still absolutely ridiculous.Great tune though but don’t think worth that kind of money.

Curious to hear your thoughts about it.

 

Wow , investment better than crypto 

it’s only all going one way…. Up 

rare and quality vinyl  in demand and. 
people will pay for authentic and amazing collectibles.

saw a tomangoes sell for 9k 🙃who’s to

say it’s crazy 

30 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Well spotted Ted. I’ve had my eye on this one since I first heard Joel play it out. I think he got his copy from Mark. This must be third copy to have surfaced on the open market in the last three years. With the auction far from over, you’ll need a calculator to assess the damage. So far, single bids of what must be massive proportions wiping out all contenders.

I have Joel’s copy I think 

1 hour ago, Ted Massey said:

Same buyer bought IJ Harris as well 

Hamilton Movement, Anderson Bros, Dynamics (Lonely Man) as well

3 hours ago, Ted Massey said:

I have Joel’s copy I think 

Hey Ted - i got that copy via Steve Green years ago i think only John Parker had it at that point (that i was aware of ), think it was pre Sam picking it up too, great record i had a punt on this vg latest one as would love it back one day. Damn bills!! :):)

 

Hope you well mate, best Joel

Edited June 20, 20213 yr by Corbett80

4 hours ago, Chalky said:

Was that the copy from the label stock that surfaced a while back?

 

Don’t know Karl , I did ask him was it sourced in U.K. he said no it was from USA that’s all I know apart from its mint  I’m happy to say 

Edited June 20, 20213 yr by Paul Shirley

18 hours ago, Corbett80 said:

Hey Ted - i got that copy via Steve Green years ago i think only John Parker had it at that point (that i was aware of ), think it was pre Sam picking it up too, great record i had a punt on this vg latest one as would love it back one day. Damn bills!! :):)

 

Hope you well mate, best Joel

Hi Joel yes bud fine back at ya. i heard Sam play it in the Windsor suite sounded brill soi was happy when i got. Steve had 3 copies he's still trying to tempt me lol 

best Ted

On 17/06/2021 at 12:52, Mal C said:

Joseph Webster is ok, ultra rare, but its not really that uplifting is it... I don't get goosebumps on this one at all... 

Total niter tune though, takes everything up several notches. Not much of a melody, granted, but the rattling rhythm, raspy voice, blaring trumpets, etc - definite goosebumps for me 

Edited June 21, 20213 yr by Chris Turnbull

The buyer of Joseph Webster, Hamilton Movement and IJ Harris spent $23,926 on these three records alone. This is roughly £17,208 in eBay money, but as we know, there’s always a bit more added on.

When there’s a self-confessed millionaire in the family, money is no object when it comes to splashing out on anything, especially rare records.

The message here is very clear, and if anyone thinks they are going to win any record the mystery shopper has targeted, they are wasting their time. Forget it. All these rare records are going in one direction only.

7 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The buyer of Joseph Webster, Hamilton Movement and IJ Harris spent $23,926 on these three records alone. This is roughly £17,208 in eBay money, but as we know, there’s always a bit more added on.

When there’s a self-confessed millionaire in the family, money is no object when it comes to splashing out on anything, especially rare records.

The message here is very clear, and if anyone thinks they are going to win any record the mystery shopper has targeted, they are wasting their time. Forget it. All these rare records are going in one direction only.

Very true but they only seem to buy the known records where the homework has been done. 

Getting harder but I try and keep ahead of them by looking for under radar stuff. (slower stuff though) 

I'm still proud to be a working class collector. 

13 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The buyer of Joseph Webster, Hamilton Movement and IJ Harris spent $23,926 on these three records alone. This is roughly £17,208 in eBay money, but as we know, there’s always a bit more added on.

When there’s a self-confessed millionaire in the family, money is no object when it comes to splashing out on anything, especially rare records.

 

They probably don't have a copies of things like Spyder Turner "I Can't make It Any More" - MGM!

It will be too cheap for them! They won't want to get into that bag!! 

They thought it was a great record and really liked it, till they found out how cheap it was!!

Edited June 23, 20213 yr by D9 Ktf

Just now, D9 Ktf said:

They probably don't have a copies of things like Spyder Turner "I Can't make It Any More" - MGM!

Too cheap for them! They don't want to get into that bag!!  They thought it was a great record and really liked it, till they found out how cheap it was!!

That's so true. I know a ex DJ,  who shall remain nameless. who had a lot of the big hitters in the 90 s but didn't have the likes of what you mentioned. Sad really.  No soul just deep pockets 

10 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The buyer of Joseph Webster, Hamilton Movement and IJ Harris spent $23,926 on these three records alone. This is roughly £17,208 in eBay money, but as we know, there’s always a bit more added on.

When there’s a self-confessed millionaire in the family, money is no object when it comes to splashing out on anything, especially rare records.

The message here is very clear, and if anyone thinks they are going to win any record the mystery shopper has targeted, they are wasting their time. Forget it. All these rare records are going in one direction only.

I think they actually bought quite a lot more than those three from that auction and bid high on everything they won. I wanted the Curtis (without the disco noises) to put back in my collection so put in a bid of more than I thought it was worth and they beat me. The third highest bid was significantly lower. a lot of the stuff I was watching went to them also. Steve Jeffries gets a lot of comments about his high prices but he also buys high. 

6 hours ago, Kjw said:

I think they actually bought quite a lot more than those three from that auction and bid high on everything they won. I wanted the Curtis (without the disco noises) to put back in my collection so put in a bid of more than I thought it was worth and they beat me. The third highest bid was significantly lower. a lot of the stuff I was watching went to them also. Steve Jeffries gets a lot of comments about his high prices but he also buys high. 

I think you’re right. I only had an interest in a few so those were the ones I knew about. Chalky also mentioned the Dynamics (Lonely Man). The mystery buyer did not win all the big items, at least not using the same bidder ID, but the family may be using fresh bidder ID’s to conceal eBay activity.

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

I think you’re right. I only had an interest in a few so those were the ones I knew about. Chalky also mentioned the Dynamics (Lonely Man). The mystery buyer did not win all the big items, at least not using the same bidder ID, but the family may be using fresh bidder ID’s to conceal eBay activity.

Bought half a dozen at least biggies, Joseph Webster, Hamilton Movement, Anderson Brothers, Dynamics, I-Connection, Tony Troutman, LJ Harris.....

Edited June 23, 20213 yr by Chalky

https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/1523057560

 

😄😄

I think he bought it that high on purpose so he can sell his reissues 🙄

And all this time whenever a record achieved another all time high price on JM auction somebody claimed mysterious japanese collectors to pay that much......

8 hours ago, Benji said:

And all this time whenever a record achieved another all time high price on JM auction somebody claimed mysterious japanese collectors to pay that much......

Some do……..

There's definitely an international flavour to the band of wealthy nutters. Alongside which you have the obvious allure of "it's a global market now ... they're over fifty years old y'know ... it's like buying antiques ... that's cheap really, when you think about it ... better than putting it in the bank ..."

I'm sure there's a modicum of truth inherent in all of those statements. However, if the loss of any sense of perspective has accompanied the swelling of your wallet and your life remains otherwise pretty empty, for the most part, they'll REALLY resonate.  

I thought the recent Chuck Cockerham went for a bizarre amount of money too (at least that's a great record though)

 

Ps. Buy high, sell high? That makes you mad twice over in my tiny brain.

 

17 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

I think you’re right. I only had an interest in a few so those were the ones I knew about. Chalky also mentioned the Dynamics (Lonely Man). The mystery buyer did not win all the big items, at least not using the same bidder ID, but the family may be using fresh bidder ID’s to conceal eBay activity.

The same bidder bought 48 items from that latest auction, expensive ones but also some on the cheaper end of the spectrum. A few others were Little Jimmy Tyson, Les Getrex, Tony Troutman, Inell Young, Liberation, Frankie & Johnny, RB Hudmon, Noel Owen, Magic Morris, Fantastyk, Downtime, the "other" Bileo 45 (Bill Williams & Billeo) etc. etc.

5 hours ago, Sebastian said:

The same bidder bought 48 items from that latest auction, expensive ones but also some on the cheaper end of the spectrum. A few others were Little Jimmy Tyson, Les Getrex, Tony Troutman, Inell Young, Liberation, Frankie & Johnny, RB Hudmon, Noel Owen, Magic Morris, Fantastyk, Downtime, the "other" Bileo 45 (Bill Williams & Billeo) etc. etc.

WOW. Really well spotted. If they’re for the collection, then fine. If they’re for re-sale, I’m in two minds. Intercepting records that other collectors have waited patiently for, then adding 20% to the price tag does not sit well with me or fellow vinyl hounds. It’s one thing to snag a bargain that’s an unknown sound. It’s a different story if price inflation distorts the market for years to come as US dealers attempt to extort stupid amounts of money for something a millionaire splashed out on. There was a time when major dealers cultivated sources (as you do Seb) and worked hard to ensure a steady trickle of records to make a living - now we seem to have entered a ‘flash-the-cash-and-have-a big-splash’ era that has serious buyers really scratching their heads.

I get what you're saying but we've all bought stuff to mark up.

This is just on a huge scale.

On 24/06/2021 at 17:43, Modernsoulsucks said:

I get what you're saying but we've all bought stuff to mark up.

This is just on a huge scale.

With you on this Rod. Yes, all serious collectors pick up stuff to move on at a profit. But it’s one thing to be in the States picking up at records $3 a pop to flog £25 records in the UK to help cover the $5,000 cost of a fortnight trip. There’s not too much wrong selling records for £100 when they were bought for £25 in 1990 - collectors are entitled to a return on their investment when funds are needed to buy records that are more expensive due to price inflation. It’s a different kettle of fish when someone pays the book price (or trade value) for something then doubles the figure for a set-sale listing. Take Detroit Soul - All Of My Life, currently on the Rare Soul 45’s site priced at £375; this is a £200 record, having doubled in value over the last couple of years. Surely this record won’t sell for this extortionate sum? This sort of pricing makes the seller look greedy, and worst still, embarrassingly stupid as the record won’t sell. When a dealer regards customers as jackasses who might stump up stupid money, they are on a very slippery slope. Overpricing records for re-sale is bad for business if it gets the firm a bad name, draws negative publicity and sales drop off.

On 24/06/2021 at 17:43, Modernsoulsucks said:

I get what you're saying but we've all bought stuff to mark up.

This is just on a huge scale.

Rod. I can honestly say that I've only ever bought records because I love them and to play them out. Never bought a record I didn't like just because it was popular.  Yes I made a big profit when I sold my collection but that was market dictated,  could have made a lot more if I has sold them individually and not as a  collection but that was my choice.  Within 12 months I was buying the odd record again and still am. And again because I love the record.  

We need to be very careful here implying that just because a person is wealthy, they are brash and lack good taste in music. 

If I'm honest I think we would all like to be able to afford nice things, but it's a fact of life that we all can't. 

c'est la vie.

I have it on good authority that there are buyers, with disposable income and in some cases trades, waiting for these records to land...it's just business, good or bad depending on your viewpoint

Throughout the history of the scene there have always been cheque book DJs willing to pay over the odds and sometimes way over the perceived value to try and get ahead of the others.

Trouble is now they aren't getting ahead, they are oldies with records like Joseph Webster being hammered for two decades now (I know its been around longer).

22 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Throughout the history of the scene there have always been cheque book DJs willing to pay over the odds and sometimes way over the perceived value to try and get ahead of the others.

Trouble is now they aren't getting ahead, they are oldies with records like Joseph Webster being hammered for two decades now (I know its been around longer).

These DJ's will have to do some serious amount of spots to get anywhere near there money back

Have I got this correct? There's a practise nowadays where a dealer buys a record at the current value, then adds 30 / 40% or even more, and puts it up for sale confident that there will be someone out there who will pay that inflated price?

If this is the case, that inflated value will then become the current value on the basis that someone paid that money for it.

Interesting, as well as off-putting - Let's hope that market doesn't last too long.

Lots of us have paid over current value for a long time want, but it's really frustrating nowadays if you get a feeling that you are bidding against someone with so much wealth that they will just keep going no matter what price.

Can't really knock em if they happen to have the money to do so, but that to me is when the fun stops.

Len 

It's an auction item FFS , the person with the greatest desire to own an item along with the deepest pockets will always win over someone with an equal desire but less cash to spend , always has been that way regardless of the nature of the big-ticket item being auctioned , always will be.

If you are hunting down the big ticket items on e-bay or JM then you will always be banging heads with the wealthiest laziest buyers and always coming off second best.

Yup, that sums it up - Great for the seller if two wealthy people are chomping at the bit for a record.  And starts a thread on here of course 

Len 

1 minute ago, Len said:

Yup, that sums it up - Great for the seller if two wealthy people are chomping at the bit for a record.  And starts a thread on here of course 

Len 

Yeah Len ,

Every bloody Wednesday about six 'o' clock ... 

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

Yeah Len ,

Every bloody Wednesday about six 'o' clock ... 

😂😂😂😂

Just another thought on the subject of wealthy collectors paying huge amounts for big ticket items.

At one time you could think, 'That record will come another day." but at our age, who knows how many other days we've got? Maybe that makes people throw caution to the wind?