Biggest Price Drop?

[KevH]

hi,just wondering the other day about record prices.Usually the debate is around 45's going up and being overpriced.

But what about the sounds from way back, that were a small fortune back then,but are available now "cheaply"??.

Sounds that were maybe limited to a few copies for a while ,then over the years are easier to obtain?

I'll START IT OFF WITH DANNY MOORE "SOMEBODY NEW",championed by Rob Marriot among others. A 1000 (?) quid sound now around for 75 ish?.

What's the biggest drop in price?

[Simon M]

Was that Ray Agee "Nag Nag " c/p £2k and now its about £300 ?

+ Royal Esquires was big money around 2001 ?

Edited September 19, 2007 by Simon M

[Cunnie]

Royal Esquires springs to mind.

Not 100% on this but were there only 2 known copies when Richard Searling & Gary Rushbrook were playing it covered as The Embers?

Can't give e'm away now though.

Good topic Kev

[SteveM]

Royal Esquires springs to mind.

Not 100% on this but were there only 2 known copies when Richard Searling & Gary Rushbrook were playing it covered as The Embers?

Can't give e'm away now though.

Good topic Kev

Well that twelve you want off me is going up in price every week so hurry up you trainee Erroll.

[Daz]

Well that twelve you want off me is going up in price every week so hurry up you trainee Erroll.

Frederick Hymes - Time aint gonna do me no favour (Fab Vegas)

Couldnt sell this for £75, see it on lists regularly for £150 ended up trading mine.

This when found was around the £1000 mark wasnt it?

Daz

[jimmy clitheroe]

recently clara hardy comes to mind

[Cunnie]

Well that twelve you want off me is going up in price every week so hurry up you trainee Erroll.

Waiting for the loan coming through Steve (post 4)

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=55897

Will pm ya.

[Gene-R]

Royal Esquires springs to mind.

Not 100% on this but were there only 2 known copies when Richard Searling & Gary Rushbrook were playing it covered as The Embers?

Yes - "Play the Part Of A Fool" by The Embers - also being played by Keb around early 1983.

[Benji]

how about the dream team on gregory? first 1000+, then down to 100-ish after a few boxes were found...

tho it's increasing in value again, isnt it?

[Mal C]

how about the dream team on gregory? first 1000+, then down to 100-ish after a few boxes were found...

tho it's increasing in value again, isnt it?

Shify was knocking these out for £50 at one point..

M

[Gasher]

the Oxford knights too

[Simon M]

Yes - "Play the Part Of A Fool" by The Embers - also being played by Keb around early 1983.

Yep at the 100 club .. but Rushbrook was still playing it around then so maybe more copies turned up ?

[Mak]

My sales list oops sorry

[Mark W]

hi,just wondering the other day about record prices.Usually the debate is around 45's going up and being overpriced.

But what about the sounds from way back, that were a small fortune back then,but are available now "cheaply"??.

Sounds that were maybe limited to a few copies for a while ,then over the years are easier to obtain?

I'll START IT OFF WITH DANNY MOORE "SOMEBODY NEW",championed by Rob Marriot among others. A 1000 (?) quid sound now around for 75 ish?.

What's the biggest drop in price?

What was the story with Danny Moore turning up in quantity, who found them?

When I drifted away from 'niters it was megabucks, then when I started buying records again it was everywhere.

Remember Pete Lowrie playing it at our soul night in Edinburgh early 90's , me and my mates thought it was iconic to have it played in our club at the time.

Still is an iconic record IMO, even if we all can have it.

[Phild]

Must be Danny Moore. I sold mine to Pete Lowrie (via Pat Brady) for £1000.00 (don't know what markup Pat put on if any), and I replaced it early this year for £60.00

Phil

[Trev Thomas]

Yep at the 100 club .. but Rushbrook was still playing it around then so maybe more copies turned up ?

keb played it of an emidisc

[Supercorsa]

I bought Danny Moore for £35 off this site, (apologies but can't remember sellers name) seller said since he'd had it he'd had nothing but bad luck.

The Royal Esquires I paid the princely sum of £30 at the last Solid Hit Soul.

[Guest BIG H]

What was the story with Danny Moore turning up in quantity, who found them?

When I drifted away from 'niters it was megabucks, then when I started buying records again it was everywhere.

Remember Pete Lowrie playing it at our soul night in Edinburgh early 90's , me and my mates thought it was iconic to have it played in our club at the time.

Still is an iconic record IMO, even if we all can have it.

Sure was a boss sound i think i remember that night, was that at the Claremont Mark?

[Mark W]

Sure was a boss sound i think i remember that night, was that at the Claremont Mark?

Thats the one Harry!

[Gasher]

The Claremont

ahhhhh I remeber it well

what a feckin great night or 2 we spent there..

That was the first time Id every heard Pete Lowrie on the decks

by f**k was he good..all the big Detroit items..WOW

the gasher

Edited September 19, 2007 by the gasher

[pow wow mik]

Was that Ray Agee "Nag Nag " c/p £2k and now its about £300 ?

+ Royal Esquires was big money around 2001 ?

I'll have a couple of wendel westerns at £300, where are they?

[arnie j]

so does anybody know who found the boxes of danny moore and where ? would be great to know

[Steve G]

Must be Danny Moore. I sold mine to Pete Lowrie (via Pat Brady) for £1000.00 (don't know what markup Pat put on if any), and I replaced it early this year for £60.00

Phil

....and the 4 Vandals Phil?

[Modernsoulsucks]

so does anybody know who found the boxes of danny moore and where ? would be great to know

I have posted this before but short answer is Dave Withers and I. Got writer's name from scan of label. Massingale is an odd surname so checked Detroit phone book. Got guy's cousin or brother, forget exact relationship now. He had quite a few at first and got more in a week or so.

ROD

[arnie j]

thanks for the info mate, i find this kind of stuff fascinating

[Guest James Trouble]

I'll have a couple of wendel westerns at £300, where are they?

I wonder where they all are myself? One or two of the funk guys think it's funny that some people pay money for it, because they picked it up dirt cheap when that handfull surfaced. But the copies have now been soaked into serious collections, and the funk guys who got it cheap and sold it on for a quick buck can't get it back now and seem to delite in saying how silly it is that serious collectors want to get hold of a copy.

Didn't the last copy of Manship's auction go for over £800?

Cracking tune, and if I ever get rid of it Mik you'll be the first I'll let know...

Edited September 19, 2007 by James Trouble

[Guest James Trouble]

I guess for some pretty solid price drops accross the board you can look at the funk market, prices have fallen on things like The Mercy Men from 500-750 at one point and they are now pretty hard to give away for £50.

"It Ain't Fair But It's Fun", fell from a four figure tune to a couple of hundred, if you're lucky.

Prof Lett + Study "We Ought To Get Together", £300 to £50. Still a great tune, and hardly common either.

How tastes have changed, and so many examples like the above over recent years...

[Guest Bearsy]

I guess for some pretty solid price drops accross the board you can look at the funk market, prices have fallen on things like The Mercy Men from 500-750 at one point and they are now pretty hard to give away for £50.

"It Ain't Fair But It's Fun", fell from a four figure tune to a couple of hundred, if you're lucky.

Prof Lett + Study "We Ought To Get Together", £300 to £50. Still a great tune, and hardly common either.

How tastes have changed, and so many examples like the above over recent years...

But do you reckon even on the funk scene that in time they might become valuable again if a box load aint flooded the scene of course all of a sudden so is it worth selling or keeping for another time in the future when or if the price might rise again.

[boba]

I have posted this before but short answer is Dave Withers and I. Got writer's name from scan of label. Massingale is an odd surname so checked Detroit phone book. Got guy's cousin or brother, forget exact relationship now. He had quite a few at first and got more in a week or so.

ROD

I still think this one is strange because beat up copies come up for sale out of Detroit too. I think in addition to those boxes coming up, it also must be a case of the record not being incredibly rare in the first place. There are other records that are not worth money because there are boxes of them around, but finding them in the actual US cities is impossible, which would make them genuinely rare if stock wasn't available.

[Simon M]

I'll have a couple of wendel westerns at £300, where are they?

I think a couple were sold on here for that price ..Martin aka Rbman may of had one?

Edited September 20, 2007 by Simon M

[Steve G]

I still think this one is strange because beat up copies come up for sale out of Detroit too. I think in addition to those boxes coming up, it also must be a case of the record not being incredibly rare in the first place. There are other records that are not worth money because there are boxes of them around, but finding them in the actual US cities is impossible, which would make them genuinely rare if stock wasn't available.

But that's exactly what happened with the Royal Esquires- incredibly rare, until someone found the label owner, who had loads of copies.

[Simon M]

But that's exactly what happened with the Royal Esquires- incredibly rare, until someone found the label owner, who had loads of copies.

and as you know Steve , when you locate a person involved with a very rare modern soul record , they say " Ohhh I pressed a box up 1980 , but Ive only got my copy , and cant find the dat tapes sorry "

[Guest Netspeaky]

Lets face it, we thought 100's of records were rare until ebay came along, now we know different, no surprise really if you really stop and think how big the USA is, and the ten's thousands of small labels/ private presses that were done, surplus stock is bound to be sitting around in someone's back yard waiting to be found. The yanks have seen silly prices being paid on ebay so they started shifting through this back stock of what they most probably thought at the time was worthless and sold what they knew which were the hits. Then again we think some records were rare when actually they were hit's even if only local ones that meant shifting a fair few. Montclairs and Don Varner both big money records were actually local hits.

[Jason S]

But do you reckon even on the funk scene that in time they might become valuable again if a box load aint flooded the scene of course all of a sudden so is it worth selling or keeping for another time in the future when or if the price might rise again.

Don't think the Prof Lett or Fabulous Originals will come out in numbers again - well, that said the obvious 'box load' of Fab Originals is still being slowly dripped out but when they eventually stop coming (probably in about 2010) all 75/100+ or so stock copies that appear to have been available will be in collections. The question is by that point will anyone be bothered with it enough to send the price back to £1000 or anywhere near that. Doubt it. Same with the Prof Lett. An infinately better record but again, one of those who's price reflected a time when information and access (and access to information) was still ropey, coupled with the fact that it was a Keb spin (like the Fab Originals for that matter) You could argue that once all copies are gone the price creeps back up and in some cases that may be true (if you're talking finding 25 or less of an indemand title for instance) but for titles found in the 75's to 100's on a relatively small 'scene' like the imaginary funk one, people remember the last lowest price and tend to reference that when coming to buy it. The Mercy Men (owing to the fact that it's utter shite) was a product probably of two people thinking they'd hit the jackpot - the buyer for having a 'really rare, allegedly really good' funk record - and the seller for being able to name his price when said mug rolled up. Whether it's worth holding out for (hopefully) a price rise on those records in the future is unanswerable really. If there was a massive increase in the amount of kids into funk and into collecting funk and DJing funk and thus fuelling the market for funk (not just 'passively liking it a bit') then yeah, maybe, but there's been nothing to suggest that's going to really happen - not in the UK at least. Probably more reflective of the lifestyle choices the next generation are likely to opt for than anything else. I suppose it comes down to what you want from them, if you can afford to keep luxury items sitting on a shelf or if you see them as a 'cashpoint' to draw from now rather than an 'investment' for the future.

The wendell Western's a funny one. One minute £30 and no-one's bothered, then soon as it's a 2K sam spin...all hell breaks loose. And anyway, I heard that no-one 'panic sold' it...it was more an elaborate wind up.

[Simon M]

Intersting stuff Jason .. so the rare funk scene is on its knees in the UK ?

[Jason S]

Intersting stuff Jason .. so the rare funk scene is on its knees in the UK ?

Has it ever been off it's knees?

Dunno really - the majority of the action in terms of busy clubs playing the hardcore stuff with the dancefloor in mind (not a chin stoking compare and contrast session) seems to be overseas at the moment.

Mind you, some people might want you to believe that what you thought were funk records are actually northern...and vice versa

[Guest fryer]

"I heard that no-one 'panic sold' it...it was more an elaborate wind up"

I dont know what you are suggesting here jason, my copy of wendel was going to james-e but his harddrivers was to battered so i kept it in my imaginery box. Its an average record and always was 100 quid at best. There is plenty copies around if you look instead of dropping $1000 on ebay and running round trying to get everyone to bid on copies to justify your purchare at 10x what its worth on a good day. Itll soon be back down at $100 after this "hysterical scambling catchup fad" has passed and people see sense. for further reading on this i suggest "The Emperor's New Clothes" By Hans Christian Andersen. The thing to do is buy record you like rather than records that have just gone big then you might end up with a collection you like rather than a collection you think other people will be inpressed by.

[Simon M]

Has it ever been off it's knees?

Dunno really - the majority of the action in terms of busy clubs playing the hardcore stuff with the dancefloor in mind (not a chin stoking compare and contrast session) seems to be overseas at the moment.

Mind you, some people might want you to believe that what you thought were funk records are actually northern...and vice versa

yep they do like the Horns and high-hat cymbal abroad !

[Modernsoulsucks]

Hey Boba I don't quite get the logic of that last post. Quantity on titles frequently turn up if you do a little digging or are lucky. The Danny Moore musta sold a few on release and others were stuck in a basement somewhere. Im not sure how many Dave and I ended up with. We had I'd estimate about 150 within a month. Im sure the pressing run went to more than that so lots of unaccounted for copies.

Danny Moore was pretty rare over here and let me say that Dave told me that we were NOT the first to get to this guy. A USA "Northern" dealer had bought a few copies and sold them for big bucks. Now it may be that the guy with the 45s only had a couple when the other dealer got to him and may be that the dealer didn't think to ask if he had more elsewhere. But whatever, a few guys over here then paid a lot of money for this 45 but the source was the same.

As Steve G said if you locate someone involved there's a good chance of turning up copies. I stumbled upon the Winfield Parker on P&L too. Winfield had left 5 copies in a shop in Baltimore [Roadhouse Oldies I think] and his phone number with the owner in case he sold them. It was at the time a rare modern soul 45 but Winfield had hundreds.

In reply to Bearsy's question I think a lot of these 45s we pay hundreds for were around in large quantities but they disappear into collections and price does rise again. If you ask John Manship Im sure he had hundreds of Frank Dells he got from a guy in Charlotte [according to what the guy told us]. Dave Withers must have had about 150 Betty Lloyds at one time. I picked up 70 copies of that Freddie Empire and sold at £10 at the end to get rid but that's probably back up there again.

I think Boba you can't really expect some of these 45s to be in the "shops" now but Im sure they were back in the 70's before guys like Anderson and Koppell started hoovering them up. I suppose "rare" doesn't actually mean in most cases only a handful pressed but difficult to locate.

ROD

[Jason S]

yep they do like the Horns and high-hat cymbal abroad !

You get more abstract by the day - stop talking Jackson Pollocks

Might be right, though

[funkyfeet]

Don't think the Prof Lett or Fabulous Originals will come out in numbers again - well, that said the obvious 'box load' of Fab Originals is still being slowly dripped out but when they eventually stop coming (probably in about 2010) all 75/100+ or so stock copies that appear to have been available will be in collections. The question is by that point will anyone be bothered with it enough to send the price back to £1000 or anywhere near that. Doubt it. Same with the Prof Lett. An infinately better record but again, one of those who's price reflected a time when information and access (and access to information) was still ropey, coupled with the fact that it was a Keb spin (like the Fab Originals for that matter) You could argue that once all copies are gone the price creeps back up and in some cases that may be true (if you're talking finding 25 or less of an indemand title for instance) but for titles found in the 75's to 100's on a relatively small 'scene' like the imaginary funk one, people remember the last lowest price and tend to reference that when coming to buy it. The Mercy Men (owing to the fact that it's utter shite) was a product probably of two people thinking they'd hit the jackpot - the buyer for having a 'really rare, allegedly really good' funk record - and the seller for being able to name his price when said mug rolled up. Whether it's worth holding out for (hopefully) a price rise on those records in the future is unanswerable really. If there was a massive increase in the amount of kids into funk and into collecting funk and DJing funk and thus fuelling the market for funk (not just 'passively liking it a bit') then yeah, maybe, but there's been nothing to suggest that's going to really happen - not in the UK at least. Probably more reflective of the lifestyle choices the next generation are likely to opt for than anything else. I suppose it comes down to what you want from them, if you can afford to keep luxury items sitting on a shelf or if you see them as a 'cashpoint' to draw from now rather than an 'investment' for the future.

The wendell Western's a funny one. One minute £30 and no-one's bothered, then soon as it's a 2K sam spin...all hell breaks loose. And anyway, I heard that no-one 'panic sold' it...it was more an elaborate wind up.

The Mercy Men, starting to get plays on the northern niter scene for the flip side, be interesting to see were it goes.

[Guest fryer]

just like the northern scene, some record go up and some go down, whens the last time you saw Leaders "it's a rat race" i remember it was like £100, id like to see it on ebay now. Or Inell Young which was £50.... funk is not different to soul for me anyway, im glad most of you dont like it because you would make me pay more.

[Simon M]

You get more abstract by the day - stop talking Jackson Pollocks

Might be right, though

Syncopated style sorry I'll get me coat , im going to look at a box of high-hat cymbal soul bowl oldies my mate is selling ..

[Guest Stuart T]

Mind you, some people might want you to believe that what you thought were funk records are actually northern...and vice versa

[Sebastian]

yep they do like the Horns and high-hat cymbal abroad !

... and effective guitar lines!

[boba]

Hey Boba I don't quite get the logic of that last post. Quantity on titles frequently turn up if you do a little digging or are lucky. The Danny Moore musta sold a few on release and others were stuck in a basement somewhere. Im not sure how many Dave and I ended up with. We had I'd estimate about 150 within a month. Im sure the pressing run went to more than that so lots of unaccounted for copies.

Danny Moore was pretty rare over here and let me say that Dave told me that we were NOT the first to get to this guy. A USA "Northern" dealer had bought a few copies and sold them for big bucks. Now it may be that the guy with the 45s only had a couple when the other dealer got to him and may be that the dealer didn't think to ask if he had more elsewhere. But whatever, a few guys over here then paid a lot of money for this 45 but the source was the same.

As Steve G said if you locate someone involved there's a good chance of turning up copies. I stumbled upon the Winfield Parker on P&L too. Winfield had left 5 copies in a shop in Baltimore [Roadhouse Oldies I think] and his phone number with the owner in case he sold them. It was at the time a rare modern soul 45 but Winfield had hundreds.

In reply to Bearsy's question I think a lot of these 45s we pay hundreds for were around in large quantities but they disappear into collections and price does rise again. If you ask John Manship Im sure he had hundreds of Frank Dells he got from a guy in Charlotte [according to what the guy told us]. Dave Withers must have had about 150 Betty Lloyds at one time. I picked up 70 copies of that Freddie Empire and sold at £10 at the end to get rid but that's probably back up there again.

I think Boba you can't really expect some of these 45s to be in the "shops" now but Im sure they were back in the 70's before guys like Anderson and Koppell started hoovering them up. I suppose "rare" doesn't actually mean in most cases only a handful pressed but difficult to locate.

ROD

I guess what I was trying to say is that 4-figure record should be extremely rare, something that doesn't turn up in real collections except very infrequently. There are some records that really never ever turn up in collections (I mean the collections of people who bought records in the 60s) but which aren't worth anything because stock is around. If stock wasn't around, those would be true 4-figure rarities to me. I was just saying that I think the danny moore did turn up in collections independent of stock being found. I think it's what NetSpeaky said -- that ebay has made it much clearer which records are "truly" rare or not. Of course it's also supply and demand, though, which sort of makes my point moot (for example, I think the Cashmeres on Hem has had stock around in the past and got some radio play in DC, but still remains a 4-figure record due to northern demand).

[Steve G]

whens the last time you saw Leaders "it's a rat race" i remember it was like £100,

Found this in NO for $5 - feckin awesome record!

[Phild]

....and the 4 Vandals Phil?

I've never sold that. Still got my copy. Are you after one? Make me a sensible offer.

[Guest lotusland]

Has it ever been off it's knees?

Dunno really - the majority of the action in terms of busy clubs playing the hardcore stuff with the dancefloor in mind (not a chin stoking compare and contrast session) seems to be overseas at the moment.

Mind you, some people might want you to believe that what you thought were funk records are actually northern...and vice versa

Funk's big over here right now. More clubs paying it/more hot 20-something girl's dancing to it surely means more kids starting to pay for it. I've had 3-4 of my regular neighborhood kids break their 40-50 dollar cherries this year, so who knows? Northern's gettin kinda big over here too right now, some big nights. the US might bring back/keep up the values on a lot of those busted out -too many copies turned up records, who knows? It'll be interesting to see at very least.

[Platters 81]

remember when some copies of Betty Lloyd on BSC were found in the mid 90ts (Gilly?)...the price went way down......now its back up again.......i suppose its a case of "how many"