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Pete Waterman Northern Soul


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The documentary was about "Northern Soul", not "Rare Soul", granted the two intertwine at times, but for me, the two are different and as much as I like stroking some-ones chin, I also like stepping back in time. A documentary/film on Rare Soul would not cut the mustard with the masses (blimey they'll even struggle with the "Northern Soul" concept) Surely the whole beauty of the Rare scene, is just that, it's rare, so keep it hidden I say :thumbsup:

thats me totally confused cos i thought Northern Soul and Rare Soul was the same thing frusty2.gif 40 year old records to the untrained ear are just 40 year old records and if you knew nothing about northern or rare soul then they might as well be called Waterman Soul, so with that i thought it was about bringing northern rare or waterman whatever its called soul to those that know not of it, blimey we all know what it is we was never going to learn anything we didnt already know so it must of been aimed at the general public cos thats why its on radio 2 and plugged on national day time tv was it not :elvis:

ok thats it im out of here before its too late for me :hypo:

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Guest ritchie

Lenny Dopson was on Banbury internet Radio tonight whilst this trip down memory lane was airing on national radio ... playing great rare and underplayed 60 's soul music... Lenny is 39.

No chin rubbing,,,, newcomers in the chat room asking questions about artists and tunes , those in the know gladly giving freely of their knowledge ... This is a scene that is current and vital not a

huge nostaglia trip. doomed if it doesn't move forward.

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but this is today Pete i dont live in 1973 and if this is about targeting new listeners etc then it could of been a good mix up of old and current so i could say why deprive the people of the exciting tunes currently pushing the scene on today, why does everything have to be about 40 years ago their are plenty of peeps in the scene that didnt do WC for an example, i just get confused i guess cos i got into the scene 6/7 years ago through the same old same old and i can garauntee that if that there was only them tired old tunes to listen too i wouldnt stiil be in it today,

so im guessing i really didnt get what the documentry was about, feeling a bit embarrassed now :facepalm:

But Paul, oh just seen Alisons reply which just about says what I mean, as much as my current top 20 'likes' doesn't even resemble the same 'chart' of 12 months ago, I'm afraid they also don't really resemble the 'Epitome of sound' either, and if I was to play a 'muggle' a typical NS tune in an attempt to describe what it's about it would more than likely be a classic, which I am sure is already another thread anyway,

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On the whole, I thought the show on R2 tonight wasn't bad. Obviously it was "Oldies" based, both in music and outlook, and raised Dave Godin's nightmare scenario of the soul scene becoming like the "Teddy Boy" scene - approvingly! When it was at its best, it was people talking about the thrill and passion of the music, the excitement of dancing and the strong social bonds built around the scene.

Elaine and Tony Palmer's contributions were very entertaining, IMHO. Palmer's account of picking up the buzz from going to WC to film a couple of times (and his very obvious enthusiasm) was a great testimonial from an outsider's point of view. His observations about the fierce sense of collective ownership of the scene and its music he experienced were well put, too. I enjoyed Elaine's comments about the "otherness" of the music, the sight of guys dancing and way that the soul scene was, for so many, real chance to break away from small towns and small minds......

Obviously, the scene ceased to exist after Wigan closed...... until the over 50's found it kept them young at the Wheel Sunday sessions. The irony is, that without those DJs and promoters who kept the scene going in the 80s and 90s, and who helped expand the musical range of NS enormously, there would have been no scene to return to. A scene purely built on nostalgia for certain 60's records that were played in the '70's would not have lasted 40 years (and wouldn't deserve to)

Oh, and Pete Roberts on drugs and the scene was honest and humerous!

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But Paul, oh just seen Alisons reply which just about says what I mean, as much as my current top 20 'likes' doesn't even resemble the same 'chart' of 12 months ago, I'm afraid they also don't really resemble the 'Epitome of sound' either, and if I was to play a 'muggle' a typical NS tune in an attempt to describe what it's about it would more than likely be a classic, which I am sure is already another thread anyway,

but to the untrained ear does it have to be a typical tune and would they be able to tell the difference to an oldie from 40 years ago or a tune discovered say in last few years getting current plays, they are all still 40+ years old, i honestly thought the doicumentry was about bringing northern soul to the masses, PW was plugging it on national day time tv, yes i agree nostalgia had to be part of it but could there not of been a tune or 2 whats really representing the scene today too, if your bringing it to the attention of the masses then surely you cant expect the masses to have to start from the beggining and just like a perfect soul night for me would be a mix up of everything from oldies to newies and mostly exciting dance music that gets the juices flowing :D great win for you tonight Pete :wink:

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I have nothing against PW and he is obviously " trying" to be entertaining but he has made some sweeping generalisations and given that he is saying that tonight's programme is going to be a documentary I do hope he can be a bit more accurate in what he says. Who decide he is the spokes person for the Soul lovers?

I think the stuff about the floor at Wigan being full of coal miners& no ladies, whilst amusing, is both patronising and wrong. There is no point ranting on about it as all of us that were there know what it was like, and those that were not,never will.

Has anyone listened to PW on radio 6 with Stuart Marconi promoting the " documentary" unbelivable,then to top it off they played the Ian Levine You Tube version of Lou Johnson; Unsatisfied. No disrespect to Mr Johnson or Mr Levine, but it is not a reflection of the 45 that was/is played, why? It's almost as bad as getting one of those Top Of The Pops albums for Christmas by not the real artist, even though this was of course and at 75 a bloody good effort. Just cant understand why they chose to play that version.

Nothing good for the scene will come from any media attention, never has.

God rest ye merry gentlemen, Merry Christmas one and all

Tiny Andy Cratchet

Cause they can't see the difference ? After all it's the same song isn't it :shades:

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Ok , I must confess I really haven't read every single post as I kinda got the jist after page one , so apologies if I've missed something .

First of all ... I'm more interested in which jammy git " northern soulie " was shagging Sian Williams :)

And secondly , let's face it , as Alison already points out ,we are talking about " Northern soul " not " rare soul " and no disrespect but as much as Pete speaks fondly of his memories , he probably knows as much about the inside of a rare soul dj's playbox as Kev Roberts or even Pete Smith , but he did give us the hit man and her , so kudos to him for that ;)

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I thought it was very good, one or two interesting comments by the likes of Richard Searling etc. the scene is what it is has become what it's become and if we still all get something out of it musically or as a social scene then good for us I say.

Mark Bicknell.

agee with you Mark ' well said

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Yes :yes:

And a yes a possible monumental win tonight :thumbsup:

then theres lies my confusion cos i can play non soulie mates a classic and then a non classic and to them it all sounds the same , oh and me dad prefers slower more soulful tunes to the stompers and he dont know which one is worth more than the other :D and some djs play rock & fooking roll :ohmy::lol:

chuufed for the trotters tonight Pete :thumbup:

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Guest allnightandy

Ok , I must confess I really haven't read every single post as I kinda got the jist after page one , so apologies if I've missed something .

First of all ... I'm more interested in which jammy git " northern soulie " was shagging Sian Williams :)

And secondly , let's face it , as Alison already points out ,we are talking about " Northern soul " not " rare soul " and no disrespect but as much as Pete speaks fondly of his memories , he probably knows as much about the inside of a rare soul dj's playbox as Kev Roberts or even Pete Smith , but he did give us the hit man and her , so kudos to him for that ;)

The one who didn't take gear ! :D
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Ok , I must confess I really haven't read every single post as I kinda got the jist after page one , so apologies if I've missed something .

First of all ... I'm more interested in which jammy git " northern soulie " was shagging Sian Williams :)

And secondly , let's face it , as Alison already points out ,we are talking about " Northern soul " not " rare soul " and no disrespect but as much as Pete speaks fondly of his memories , he probably knows as much about the inside of a rare soul dj's playbox as Kev Roberts or even Pete Smith , but he did give us the hit man and her , so kudos to him for that ;)

Nev are you pigeon holing the scene :D so what is William Cummings, Rare Soul or Northern Soul :g::shades:

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Ok , I must confess I really haven't read every single post as I kinda got the jist after page one , so apologies if I've missed something .

First of all ... I'm more interested in which jammy git " northern soulie " was shagging Sian Williams :)

And secondly , let's face it , as Alison already points out ,we are talking about " Northern soul " not " rare soul " and no disrespect but as much as Pete speaks fondly of his memories , he probably knows as much about the inside of a rare soul dj's playbox as Kev Roberts or even Pete Smith , but he did give us the hit man and her , so kudos to him for that ;)

Nev- Anything you need answering on Rare Soul or Soul PM me- will be happy to demonstrate some knowledge!

Thought the show was pretty good. Well done Andy Davies. Glad everyone liked the Eugene talky bit.

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Guest in town Mikey

The PW show was worth listening to just to hear Eugene Thomas' story. Its stuff like that. And reading posts by Lorraine Chandler on here, that have the feel good factor in spades. I dozed off last night very pleased to have heard how much pleasure Eugene got from finally knowing how popular his one recording has been in the UK. If the Northern Soul scene is remembered in the annals of music history. I hope its for not only bringing pleasure to the fans. But also pleasure to the guys who made the records, and may never have known the love and respect they deserve had the scene never actually come to be.

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Personally if someone wants to make a film about 'Northern Soul'.............why can't they do something about the current scene rather than focusing on Wigan Casino, The Mecca, etc, etc.

Don't focus on the nostalgia..........focus on the here and now!!!

Many comments on here about young folk getting into the scene..............Christ I would hate it if they thought that's the way it all still is!!!

The Scene has evolved...................if anybody else wants to make another film, just take the cameras to somewhere like Bidds or Radcliffe where there are different rooms playing so many different sounds or soul nights that don't just play overplayed oldies!!!

OK that's my bit said............I'm outta here!!!

:wave:

Couldnt have said it any better........thank you.

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An interesting post.

TOTP "ruined Wigan" yes I heard that too. But with the benefit of hiensight this was a shortsighted view. I was there later when we were saying turn the lights down / keep the cameras out of Wigan. At the time we were horrified at "This England" etc. But then again the scene has always benefitted from the new blood that's it's fleeting moments in the limelight have brought. I am sure some of the people that saw TOTP went on to become scene stalwarts in the same way as some got into it in the late 70s when we had the mod revival (Quadraphenia etc), and some latter day mods have migrated from Shitsea-On Sea scooter weekenders popping their Parkas to Tamla Motown chartbusters, to appreciate today's rare soul scene.

And so it goes on......

Steve

exactly i never went to wigan...way too young and miles away but ive heard a lot of people complain (mainly on here to be honest,sorry mike but its true)about TOTP and THIS ENGLAND saying it was better before..despite all the good tunes amoung the rubbish that was played there after and those that came and stayed to this day because of it.....and this film with the help of someone famous like pw could do that positive thing for this scene..which was my point really ....i came via 80s scooter scene but also via my older brother who went to yate,st ives etc...im not sure if he was a TOTP/TE convert ...think it was always played in the youth clubs/teen discos of norwich anyway and my parents had been into soul before so was used to it on the sony stereo...

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but to the untrained ear does it have to be a typical tune and would they be able to tell the difference to an oldie from 40 years ago or a tune discovered say in last few years getting current plays, they are all still 40+ years old, i honestly thought the doicumentry was about bringing northern soul to the masses, PW was plugging it on national day time tv, yes i agree nostalgia had to be part of it but could there not of been a tune or 2 whats really representing the scene today too, if your bringing it to the attention of the masses then surely you cant expect the masses to have to start from the beggining and just like a perfect soul night for me would be a mix up of everything from oldies to newies and mostly exciting dance music that gets the juices flowing :D great win for you tonight Pete :wink:

agree...sorry for banging on about about go go children again but...we do mix it up between oldies and unknown stuff and no the youngsters dont know the difference if its good they'll dance...its the some of the older ones who walk on and off the floor depending on if they know it...ofcourse the youngsters would know the difference between a typical blue eyed wigan pop stomper and a funky edged thing of today but between that funky thing and stanky(a classic oldie) ...nope

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Couldnt have said it any better........thank you.

On the whole, I thought the show on R2 tonight wasn't bad. Obviously it was "Oldies" based, both in music and outlook, and raised Dave Godin's nightmare scenario of the soul scene becoming like the "Teddy Boy" scene - approvingly! When it was at its best, it was people talking about the thrill and passion of the music, the excitement of dancing and the strong social bonds built around the scene.

Elaine and Tony Palmer's contributions were very entertaining, IMHO. Palmer's account of picking up the buzz from going to WC to film a couple of times (and his very obvious enthusiasm) was a great testimonial from an outsider's point of view. His observations about the fierce sense of collective ownership of the scene and its music he experienced were well put, too. I enjoyed Elaine's comments about the "otherness" of the music, the sight of guys dancing and way that the soul scene was, for so many, real chance to break away from small towns and small minds......

Obviously, the scene ceased to exist after Wigan closed...... until the over 50's found it kept them young at the Wheel Sunday sessions. The irony is, that without those DJs and promoters who kept the scene going in the 80s and 90s, and who helped expand the musical range of NS enormously, there would have been no scene to return to. A scene purely built on nostalgia for certain 60's records that were played in the '70's would not have lasted 40 years (and wouldn't deserve to)

Oh, and Pete Roberts on drugs and the scene was honest and humerous!

:thumbsup: The truest comment regarding the scene I have read for some time & something those enjoying todays nostalgia/oldies only scene should contemplate, when the returnees have left again, which they will, it will be the spirit of the 8ts that will keep the scene alive again.....roll on.

Russ

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:thumbsup: The truest comment regarding the scene I have read for some time & something those enjoying todays nostalgia/oldies only scene should contemplate, when the returnees have left again, which they will, it will be the spirit of the 8ts that will keep the scene alive again.....roll on.

Russ

agree too and have said that on various oldies/newies posts...those that only go to oldies events were once those shouting for new tunes every week!...

think its an age thing with SOME people and not just the soul scene.....there are old rock n rollers who still go to weekenders dancing to elvis etc...i also know a couple of more rock billy types who come to go go ocasionalyl for the rnb and some of the soul who are constantly turned on by new finds in their genres and wouldnt be seen dead dancing to jailhouse rock

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thats me totally confused cos i thought Northern Soul and Rare Soul was the same thing frusty2.gif

For me Paul two very different scenes. Rare soul fans like some oldies, don't find many oldies fans who like much rare soul. There's essentially been two seperate scenes for some years now in my book.

First of all ... I'm more interested in which jammy git " northern soulie " was shagging Sian Williams :)

Yes that was an interesting revelation.

Thought the show was pretty good. Well done Andy Davies. .

I heard the plug for Andy Davies, didn't realise it was "our" Andy Davies.

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I agree Dave, just listened & enjoyed the programme with few cringe worthy moments. With a little editing this could be part one of a two programme documentary, the second part concentrating more on the contemporary scene of today.

I particularly enjoyed the two 100 Club regulars putting over thier 'younger' point of view & what really made the whole show so poinient was Eugene from EOS, this is one of the main legacies of the scene, that artists who may never have received any appreciation for thier work realise it was not all in vain & us nutters love thier music & that through the scene it reached a far wider audience than they could have ever realised, its essential that the scene should continue to discover new & under appreciated artists & music, not only to take the scene forward musically, but to ensure the artists & people involved with making soul music are never forgotten & know how much thier work is appreciated.

Best Russ

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a workmate not into northern is giving me ear ache about a tune played 15 mins into the program,male voice bit of a stomper he says and mentions various dances etc,I havnt listend to it yet , put him out of his misery someone, thanks,.

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Guest Marky Tee

a workmate not into northern is giving me ear ache about a tune played 15 mins into the program,male voice bit of a stomper he says and mentions various dances etc,I havnt listend to it yet , put him out of his misery someone, thanks,.

From memory That drivin beat?
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To Steve G- Not the Modern Soul DJ Andy Davies, but the former Jonathon Ross producer of the same name.

To Russ Vickers. I enjoyed the 'younger point of view' from the 100 club regular, shame they didn't interview anyone similar from the Kings Hall Stoke, whereby around 200 at every niter must be under 30!

The Eugene interview was indeed poignant, glad to be of help in making it happen.

Upon reflection some 11 hours later, it was a super job by Radio 2. Pete Waterman turned out to be the right guy to narrate. IMHO

At least they showcased how popular the scene really has become, as The Wheel, Blackpool Tower can testify.

Edited by The Golden 101
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but this is today Pete i dont live in 1973 and if this is about targeting new listeners etc then it could of been a good mix up of old and current so i could say why deprive the people of the exciting tunes currently pushing the scene on today, why does everything have to be about 40 years ago their are plenty of peeps in the scene that didnt do WC for an example, i just get confused i guess cos i got into the scene 6/7 years ago through the same old same old and i can garauntee that if that there was only them tired old tunes to listen too i wouldnt stiil be in it today,

so im guessing i really didnt get what the documentry was about, feeling a bit embarrassed now :facepalm:

NAIL ON HEAD BEARSY :thumbup:

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Guest allnightandy

For me Paul two very different scenes. Rare soul fans like some oldies, don't find many oldies fans who like much rare soul. There's essentially been two seperate scenes for some years now in my book.

I agree with you mate the scene was always split

there were your Wigan types who only liked the 60's rare stompers / dance tunes

then you had the other side the Mecca , the odd rare soul stomper , Which as soon as it was pressed , was dropped, but in the main ,more cross over more modern progressive sounds including some new sounds that fit into the non mainstream dance music i fall into the first category

but there was one main worry

That the rare sounds could not last forever , they would eventually run out .

Back in the late 70's that was a real worry for me because i wanted it to go on for ever , and the rate that records were being reissued/ bootlegged this could not happen .So disillusioned with the scene i left it . i still love the music i knew and also like some of the newer/slower stuff they play now

the music has slowed down as have most of the soulies that dance to it LOL

but people mention this rare soul Well i had ,and still have many records that were never played but i still love the content so i suppose you could class that as rare soul . The scene is i think how each individual perceives it , not really any set rules just as long as you enjoy it !

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I agree Dave, just listened & enjoyed the programme with few cringe worthy moments. With a little editing this could be part one of a two programme documentary, the second part concentrating more on the contemporary scene of today.

I particularly enjoyed the two 100 Club regulars putting over thier 'younger' point of view & what really made the whole show so poinient was Eugene from EOS, this is one of the main legacies of the scene, that artists who may never have received any appreciation for thier work realise it was not all in vain & us nutters love thier music & that through the scene it reached a far wider audience than they could have ever realised, its essential that the scene should continue to discover new & under appreciated artists & music, not only to take the scene forward musically, but to ensure the artists & people involved with making soul music are never forgotten & know how much thier work is appreciated.

Best Russ

I listened to it last night, I thought PW was good because he wasn't constantly banging on about himself, mostly he just asked questions, so from that point of view excellent. I liked, or have liked every track played, but I couldn't help feeling it was pure nostalgia and kept thinking to myself, musically, this is like the most comfortable pair of slippers ever, I'd have liked a little more focus on what's happening now, so it wouldn't come across that the soul scene was/is just marking time, mentions for Soul Sam, Butch, and Andy Dyson would have given it a bit more balance, also reflecting that there is a lot of funk based stuff being played nowadays would have made it a bit more current.

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Nev- Anything you need answering on Rare Soul or Soul PM me- will be happy to demonstrate some knowledge!

Thought the show was pretty good. Well done Andy Davies. Glad everyone liked the Eugene talky bit.

Ok Kevin ... I'm trying to find info on tyree Davis on metrolina , what year , how many copies etc please ???

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To Steve G- Not the Modern Soul DJ Andy Davies, but the former Jonathon Ross producer of the same name.

To Russ Vickers. I enjoyed the 'younger point of view' from the 100 club regular, shame they didn't interview anyone similar from the Kings Hall Stoke, whereby around 200 at every niter must be under 30!

The Eugene interview was indeed poignant, glad to be of help in making it happen.

Upon reflection some 11 hours later, it was a super job by Radio 2. Pete Waterman turned out to be the right guy to narrate. IMHO

At least they showcased how popular the scene really has become, as The Wheel, Blackpool Tower can testify.

Kev - why spoil a nice thread with the me, me, me attitude, I'm sure we're all aware of who goes to Stoke & the article about EOS on SS, has been well read. There are also many other events in the UK & internationally other than the ones mentioned that also demonstrate how popular the Northern/Rare Soul Scene is - my point was, that you & many others conveniently forget the scene was still flourishing while you were on your break, the scene continued to develop quite nicely thank you & didnt end with WC, as many would like you to believe, until you came back & single handedly saved NS.

It would be really very considerate of you to let the thread run its course without any more self promotion, very happy to take it to PM if you would like to respond without it getting to the usual boring debates & take away from the threads main point. You could start your own thread even about your personal contribution, which for those that enjoy your promotions has been vast.

Merry Xmas

Russ

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Kev - why spoil a nice thread with the me, me, me attitude, I'm sure we're all aware of who goes to Stoke & the article about EOS on SS, has been well read. There are also many other events in the UK & internationally other than the ones mentioned that also demonstrate how popular the Northern/Rare Soul Scene is - my point was, that you & many others conveniently forget the scene was still flourishing while you were on your break, the scene continued to develop quite nicely thank you & didnt end with WC, as many would like you to believe, until you came back & single handedly saved NS.

It would be really very considerate of you to let the thread run its course without any more self promotion, very happy to take it to PM if you would like to respond without it getting to the usual boring debates & take away from the threads main point. You could start your own thread even about your personal contribution, which for those that enjoy your promotions has been vast.

Merry Xmas

Russ

We'll let the thread run its course. No self promotion here......just felt it neccessary to point out that Stoke has a lot of youngsters attending. Hopefully you can make it up North sometime and see for yourself?

Have a good one. :D

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I've Had this Album for some time, having 1st heard it on one of my sons cds when he was 15, he's 30 now :( , great track, great post, thanks :wink:

Remember hearing it on the radio and the dj never announced what it was - then read a review of a band who made records totally made up of samples - had to be this one. The main part is from Eddie Drennon - Lets do the latin hustle.

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Ok Kevin ... I'm trying to find info on tyree Davis on metrolina , what year , how many copies etc please ???

I think I used to have it many years ago on Metrolina Soul. I'm Leaving You In Jody's Hand right?

As for how many copies, phew...now that's a toughie......you got me there :D

Next........

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We'll let the thread run its course. No self promotion here......just felt it neccessary to point out that Stoke has a lot of youngsters attending. Hopefully you can make it up North sometime and see for yourself?

Have a good one. :D

I have travelled up North for 35 plus years & continue to do so. I visit Stoke on an odd occasion & quite enjoy it for what it is, I did think the Modern Room there was very good in its heyday, the main room is fine when I feel the need to over dose on oldies, but I would usually prefer to attend venues that mix the old with the new & under played, just my personal preference.

Now, after another plug for Stoke shall we really get back to the thread this time.

Seasons greetings

Russ

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Good to hear the always humble and modest Ian Levine, who referred to himself as a 'legend'! When he travels to the US does he bother taking a plane, or just walk across the Atlantic!?

Was the 'Goldie' that was interviewed the actor/DJ (he with the mouth full of gold teeth) or is there another?

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

No. He parts the waves instead!

Must be useful, getting a few empty Tizer bottles, filling them from the tap and getting your own booze. Strangely enough, I have no problem in doing a similar trick, but in reverse.

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