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Who Discovered What ?


Sheldonsoul

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boxing.gifA BIG HELLO TO THE NIGHT OWLS, AS A BREAK HERE IS A LIST FROM THE 8ts.. ADEY TAKE A LOOK AT THE FLUCTUATION IN PRICES, A SURE GOOD GUIDE TO WHAT WAS IN VOUE AND OUT AND COMPAIRED TO PROPER RARE AND MICKS INTERPRETATION EX:FRANKIE & JOHNY THE PRICE REFLECT THE ORIG ISSUE DISCUSSED BACK IN THE THREAD? ENJOY ALSO IN 72/3 MY FAV TUNES NCLUDED MEL WILLIAMS & THE HESITATIONS "IM NOT BUILT THAT WAY" CLASSICS BUT WHO PLAYED THEM I GOT MY COPY OF MEL FROM JOHN ANDERSON 74 THE HESITATIONS I GOT FROM CONTEMPOS IN HANNAWAY ST 75np summer 73 just after it was booted ph34r.gif DAVE KIL

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I bought the Ivorys off that list!! Still got it. Mick always did proce very fairly/competitively and when I was a teen I used to buy 75% of my tunes from him. Happy days!

Rich

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I stared at Keith's Daylight Saving Time and am now officially declared Dead!

I then found one a couple of days after looking through your box but never actually played therefore I should be just mildly flayed.......

Who was responsible for "My Heart's Symphony" and "Good Little You" both by Joey Dee though?

They should be skinned, sprayed with salt and then surgically disected and disemboweled, fed to carniverous wolves and then the bones should be set alight. After that you can piss on their graves LOL.......

Nearest I got to out and out Pop was Barnaby Bye, Felix Caveliere and Benny Troy.......

Ian D biggrin.gif

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I then found one a couple of days after looking through your box but never actually played therefore I should be just mildly flayed.......

Who was responsible for "My Heart's Symphony" and "Good Little You" both by Joey Dee though?

They should be skinned, sprayed with salt and then surgically disected and disemboweled, fed to carniverous wolves and then the bones should be set alight. After that you can piss on their graves LOL.......

Nearest I got to out and out Pop was Barnaby Bye, Felix Caveliere and Benny Troy.......

Ian D biggrin.gif

Gary Lewis - Richard 1974, Joey Dee....the geezer with long hair from Nottingham way. laugh.gif

PS The latter officially owns up to 'Put Your Heart In It' too!

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Gary Lewis - Richard 1974, Joey Dee....the geezer with long hair from Nottingham way. laugh.gif

PS The latter officially owns up to 'Put Your Heart In It' too!

Look at that. I couldn't even get the names right. Were Gary Lewis and Joey Dee the same guy LOL?

Also Ginger needs to take a bow for Tommy Sands "The Statue"!

Ian D biggrin.gif

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Nearest I got to out and out Pop was Barnaby Bye, Felix Caveliere and Benny Troy.......

Ian D biggrin.gif

To be fair, Felix is, and always was, a pretty Soulful artist, Ian.

His 2008 album with Steve Cropper was one of the best of last year (IMO).

Less said about Barnaby Bye and Benny T. the better though! :boxing:

:D

Back on subject.... who discovered the Professionals "That's Why I Love You"....

...always thought that was Graham Coates?

Sean

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To be fair, Felix is, and always was, a pretty Soulful artist, Ian.

His 2008 album with Steve Cropper was one of the best of last year (IMO).

Less said about Barnaby Bye and Benny T. the better though! :boxing:

:D

Back on subject.... who discovered the Professionals "That's Why I Love You"....

...always thought that was Graham Coates?

Sean

Hey Sean did you discover Annis ? shades.gif

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To be fair, Felix is, and always was, a pretty Soulful artist, Ian.

Back on subject.... who discovered the Professionals "That's Why I Love You"....

...always thought that was Graham Coates?

Sean

I actually had a copy very early on but never quite managed to get it away. It stayed in the box for 2 years though but eventually got traded on. Similar stories with Ernest Mosely, Al Jones and Mikki Farrow I'm ashamed to say.......

Graham Coates rings a bell though........

Ian D biggrin.gif

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Who found "Naughty boy " was the first copy broken and taped together ? And did Guy H really play Joseph Webster first ?

Simon

I don't think Guy ever considered JW good enough to play out, but he did handle the original couple of copies. First spins were probably at Thorne by Pete Shirley and Rod Dearlove a few years later.

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I'm afraid he who shall not be named found a bunch of Holly St James on one of his U.S. trips and used 'em as swops for stuff he needed from the UK, so I guess that's another one down to him......it took a while to take off after that though.......

Ian D biggrin.gif

...........................

have a blues and soul from '73 with the same guy championing something a little bit different:

Dan Folger - Way Of the Crowd.

when was this first played out though?

steve

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I don't know where to start Mike,he got me into my first allnighters in the early 70's,he's more a collector than a dj,still got a couple of boxes of originals ,he normally collect 2 of each, if i can remember he dj once in the early days of the 100 club,i believe Ady knows little Mick,he's still very good friends with Ian Clark,he did some dealings with Pete Smith in the early 70's when he was into his Brittish stuff. Records he brought to the scene,not everyones taste, Samantha Jones,Loraine Silver also Panic,Rufus Lumley,im 95% sure,Moses Smith,a little smile came to my face,he told me a few years back,if i can remember,Loraine Silver was at Cleethorpes Weekender or some weekender and lot of the soulies were having a chat with her,Mick came along and sat down,had a few minutes talking to her then he said 'I introduced your record to the northern scene' and she seemed to blank him after that,his words not mine,keep on keeping on.

Billy

Also forgot Nancy Aimes,can anyone play Stronger than me,i hav'nt heard that for a long long time.

Billy

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Stronger than her love - Flirtations .Was that "he who should not be mentioned"?

Written as a toothpaste commercial minus the title of course. My dear departed friend Herb Abrahamson gave me tapes to the instrumental which was included on a Goldmine cd 15 years ago. The same source supplied me with the Baby Sitters- Wait Til I Get To Know Ya and Charlotte Stokes- Is This The Price I Have To Pay.

Now back on topic.... Who discovered/played 'I Walked Away- Bobby Paris.

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Written as a toothpaste commercial minus the title of course. My dear departed friend Herb Abrahamson gave me tapes to the instrumental which was included on a Goldmine cd 15 years ago. The same source supplied me with the Baby Sitters- Wait Til I Get To Know Ya and Charlotte Stokes- Is This The Price I Have To Pay.

Now back on topic.... Who discovered/played 'I Walked Away- Bobby Paris.

So you played it first ? Firm Wigan tune.Off topic slightly - Babysitters on Spectator...boot or not.?

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Simon

I don't think Guy ever considered JW good enough to play out, but he did handle the original couple of copies. First spins were probably at Thorne by Pete Shirley and Rod Dearlove a few years later.

think Guy was the first to spin them, thats what I was told. Certainly played the instrumental when he got the first copies.

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Good one. Here's a few more 'who discovered's'

Pre-73/ Fidels, Sandi Sheldon, Shalimars, Danny White- Cracked.

Golden Era/ R. Dean Taylor-Ghost, Yum Yums, Tomangoes.

Post 81/ Tommy Ridgley, Karmello Brooks.

Kev's useless trivia No.927...... Soul Sam first played Rubin's-You've Been Away at the Top Rank, Hanley early 1974.

No.928....Long before Top of the World All Nighters I played Joanne Courcey on Twirl in 74 at the same venue's Monday Soul nights.

Tommy Ridgeley I was led to believe was John Vincent, thats what he told me, early 80's he said he first spun it.

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So you played it first ? Firm Wigan tune.Off topic slightly - Babysitters on Spectator...boot or not.?

[/quote

Not a boot. That plus the Charlotte Stokes on Tip were made by Herb, the owner of the masters. Both were unreleased in 1967. The Ltd 45's were released in 1978. 300 copies each if I remember correctly.

The Baby Sitters were led by Ken Williams, he of the Superiors and Okeh]

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Good one. Here's a few more 'who discovered's'

Pre-73/ Fidels, Sandi Sheldon, Shalimars, Danny White- Cracked.

Golden Era/ R. Dean Taylor-Ghost, Yum Yums, Tomangoes.

Post 81/ Tommy Ridgley, Karmello Brooks.

Kev's useless trivia No.927...... Soul Sam first played Rubin's-You've Been Away at the Top Rank, Hanley early 1974.

No.928....Long before Top of the World All Nighters I played Joanne Courcey on Twirl in 74 at the same venue's Monday Soul nights.

Hi Kev , was talking to Julian Bentley today about The Shalimars and all the other Verve /MGM stuff , most of it was Bradford market I think , loads of 'em ......Best,Eddie

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Written as a toothpaste commercial minus the title of course. My dear departed friend Herb Abrahamson gave me tapes to the instrumental which was included on a Goldmine cd 15 years ago. The same source supplied me with the Baby Sitters- Wait Til I Get To Know Ya and Charlotte Stokes- Is This The Price I Have To Pay.

Now back on topic.... Who discovered/played 'I Walked Away- Bobby Paris.

alan rhodes ?

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No, I'm claiming that. Bought from Bob from Louth on a Thursday evening gig in Lincolnshire before anyone else found it (I think Bob got it from John Anderson anyway). Heard it over the cans first, knew it was a monster, then played it over the system and realised it was utterly irresistible so did a deal with him there and then (£8 rings a bell). I think I covered it up because I thought the title was ridiculous, so I over-stickered the first copy with "I'm Coming Home" as opposed to "I'm Com'un Home In The Morn'un" which was a bit of a mouthful and frankly daft pronounciation (I think I knocked £2.50 off the price because of the title)..........

Incidentally, that was the gig where I was driving back in the early hours of the morning over the fields of Lincolnshire with a guy called Kelly from Huddersfield and I came off the road straight into a wet muddy field and couldn't get the car out the field 'cos the wheels wouldn't grip the mud. So the two of us were stuck there covered in mud @ 2.00am in the middle of nowhere when some guy appeared out of the blue and between the three of us we got the car back on the road. I often wondered what the guy was doing in the middle of nowhere @ 2.00am on a Friday morning 'cos there were no towns, houses or pubs anywhere within a 10 mile radius. Just cows and mud. We ended up dropping him off 10 miles down the road but it was mud city all the way home......we were covered!

Worth it for Lou Pride though. A monster!

Ian D biggrin.gif

I can remember Phil Kingswood urning up at the casino straight from a trip to soul bowl, he had 7 mint condition copies of Lou Pride for £7 each I bought one and all he rest went to lads from Mansfield.

Ulyssees

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I have an old wigan audio tape I recorded in 74, it's announced that "this is the first time Carstairs is being played at the casino". and that it belongs to Frank (Ian Dewhurst) from Leeds, and ...no it is not for sale! This was the same night Dave Godin was there and he took Crow "Autumn of Tomorrow" with him.

Ulyssees.

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bobby hutton come see whats left of me,dean courtney love you just cant walk away,bernie williams ever again. any ideas anyoneg.gif

Bernie Williams was a Colin Curtis 'last hour @ The Mecca' spin but I never thought it fitted with the Mecca sound at the time. It was much too dated and R'n'B'ish compared to most of the other stuff Ian and Colin were playing at this point. This was a point where the Mecca was championing the more progressive 'Modern' sound and that's what people were getting off on. As a result, many of the more traditional Northern stompers were being relegated to occasional plays or 'last hour' status. Which is kinda what happened with records like Joe Mathews, Jimmy Raye, Robbie Lawson, Herbert Hunter, Jenny & The Jewells, The Inspirations, Jimmy Mack and tons of others etc, etc.

Times were a changing @ the Mecca and there was almost like a sort of reverse snobbery about the traditional Northern sound in this period. It was cooler to play King Sporty than Bernie Williams LOL...... Rosey Jones, Mel Britt, The Carstairs, The Anderson Brothers, Marvin Holmes & Justice, Anne Sexton and James Fountain were the floorfillers at this point and the new fashionisters frowned on out-on-out million-mile-per-hour stompers 'cos it seemed like a throwback to the recent past.

This was when the Northern/Modern split was just beginning to happen, so even though Levine and Curtis had the cream of everything in their boxes, it seemed like some of the more traditional stompers were being relegated to 2nd class status IMO. For instance, Ian HATED Joe Mathews with a vengeance and used to complain every time Colin played it. Even Ian will admit that he veered waaaaay too far at this point, even apologising sometimes for having to play a stomper rather than, say, the latest New York underground indie label club track. So, bit by bit, traditional Northern Soul was being edged out @ the Mecca. When Ian came back from a trip to the states and unleashed a traditional Northern monster like, say, Jimmy Raye, he was almost apologetic about it. Similarly Colin would get unbelievable Northern one-offs that everyone else would kill to get hold of but somehow they were never as popular as, say, an Oscar Perry record........

So, in short, many of the later KILLER Mecca Northern discoveries were wasted @ the Mecca.

So, throughout this period, vampire-sucking opportunists like me and various other DJ's/Collectors would be watching, analysing and thinking about the effect that some of these records would have on a 100% pure Northern gig like Wigan Casino for instance. If only some of these 'cult' traditional Mecca Northern stompers could be liberated from Colin or Ian and then exposed to the right audience, then BINGO! Job accomplished.

Squeezing the bastards out of either Ian or Colin was another thing though. Ian didn't sell anything period and Colin was a hard bargainer at the best of times. So the smart money said wait until the right moment then pounce.........

So I stored Colin's Bernie Williams record at the back of my mind and figured I'd swoop out of the blue a few months down the line, get it and then unleash the bastard to willing audiences @ Wigan, Cleethorpes, Leeds and Sheffield and take the kudos.........it should've been a piece of cake theoretically.........

.....but I knew I was in trouble when I rang Colin to snag the record and he told me he'd traded it with Jack Bollington from Derby. Uh Oh.......

The end result was that I consider that my 'private' deal with Jack to buy the Bernie Williams record for a hefty £40 at the time was the beginning of the insane price escalation of Northern Soul. The word got out and suddenly there was a bidding war between myself and another well-known and enduring name on the scene. When the price reached £120 and a Rosey Jones and World Column - essentially £150 in 1975, the deal no longer made sense to me. That was the point when I realised that obsession has no boundaries.

So I decided to go to the U.S. and find the f*ckers myself. I took strength from adversity and it completely changed my life. As a result of backing out of the Bernie Williams bidding war I have been rewarded with a rich and interesting life which continues to this day. So Bernie Williams was a very significant record for me......

However, in answer to the original question, Colin Curtis discovered Bernie Williams OK?

Ian D biggrin.gif

Edited by Ian Dewhirst
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Bernie Williams was a Colin Curtis 'last hour @ The Mecca' spin but I never thought it fitted with the Mecca sound at the time. It was much too dated and R'n'B'ish compared to most of the other stuff Ian and Colin were playing at this point. This was a point where the Mecca was championing the more progressive 'Modern' sound and that's what people were getting off on. As a result, many of the more traditional Northern stompers were being relegated to occasional plays or 'last hour' status. Which is kinda what happened with records like Joe Mathews, Jimmy Raye, Robbie Lawson, Herbert Hunter, Jenny & The Jewells, The Inspirations, Jimmy Mack and tons of others etc, etc.

Times were a changing @ the Mecca and there was almost like a sort of reverse snobbery about the traditional Northern sound in this period. It was cooler to play King Sporty than Bernie Williams LOL...... Rosey Jones, Mel Britt, The Carstairs, The Anderson Brothers, Marvin Holmes & Justice, Anne Sexton and James Fountain were the floorfillers at this point and the new fashionisters frowned on out-on-out million-mile-per-hour stompers 'cos it seemed like a throwback to the recent past.

This was when the Northern/Modern split was just beginning to happen, so even though Levine and Curtis had the cream of everything in their boxes, it seemed like some of the more traditional stompers were being relegated to 2nd class status IMO. For instance, Ian HATED Joe Mathews with a vengeance and used to complain every time Colin played it. Even Ian will admit that he veered waaaaay too far at this point, even apologising sometimes for having to play a stomper rather than, say, the latest New York underground indie label club track. So, bit by bit, traditional Northern Soul was being edged out @ the Mecca. When Ian came back from a trip to the states and unleashed a traditional Northern monster like, say, Jimmy Raye, he was almost apologetic about it. Similarly Colin would get unbelievable Northern one-offs that everyone else would kill to get hold of but somehow they were never as popular as, say, an Oscar Perry record........

So, in short, many of the later KILLER Mecca Northern discoveries were wasted @ the Mecca.

So, throughout this period, vampire-sucking opportunists like me and various other DJ's/Collectors would be watching, analysing and thinking about the effect that some of these records would have on a 100% pure Northern gig like Wigan Casino for instance. If only some of these 'cult' traditional Mecca Northern stompers could be liberated from Colin or Ian and then exposed to the right audience, then BINGO! Job accomplished.

Squeezing the bastards out of either Ian or Colin was another thing though. Ian didn't sell anything period and Colin was a hard bargainer at the best of times. So the smart money said wait until the right moment then pounce.........

So I stored Colin's Bernie Williams record at the back of my mind and figured I'd swoop out of the blue a few months down the line, get it and then unleash the bastard to willing audiences @ Wigan, Cleethorpes, Leeds and Sheffield and take the kudos.........it should've been a piece of cake theoretically.........

.....but I knew I was in trouble when I rang Colin to snag the record and he told me he'd traded it with Jack Bollington from Derby. Uh Oh.......

The end result was that I consider that my 'private' deal with Jack to buy the Bernie Williams record for a hefty £40 at the time was the beginning of the insane price escalation of Northern Soul. The word got out and suddenly there was a bidding war between myself and another well-known and enduring name on the scene. When the price reached £120 and a Rosey Jones and World Column - essentially £150 in 1975, the deal no longer made sense to me. That was the point when I realised that obsession has no boundaries.

So I decided to go to the U.S. and find the f*ckers myself. I took strength from adversity and it completely changed my life. As a result of backing out of the Bernie Williams bidding war I have been rewarded with a rich and interesting life which continues to this day. So Bernie Williams was a very significant record for me......

However, in answer to the original question, Colin Curtis discovered Bernie Williams OK?

Ian D biggrin.gif

Jack Bollinton(borrinton) was a bit of a lad,i was walking round Derby with him once and Tim Finch,we went in a second hand shop Jack saw this tie he liked priced up at 10p he pinched it! regards Gilly and Nicola

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Randy Cozens champiuoned this early 80s dunno if he was the first, possibly.

Hi Ady , like the previous poster , I remember the article from the mid 70's , in Frank Elson's column in B & S , where he listed a chart from Ian Levine which was made up of downtempo records .Dan Folger was amongst that bunch of '45's . I made a mental note of it and pulled 2 white demos out of Golden Oldies in Seattle in the summer of 1980, a week after Tim and Nogger from Stoke had visited the store .....Best,Eddie

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Actually I think I had that first and sold it Gary [or a mate of his] in Wigan record bar. I thought it was OK but a bit too doo-woppy in parts. £8 I think. Got it off a guy in Fla. called Jose Lopez. I used to send him UK disco for 60's and 70's soul.

He had my wants list but would insist on sending me shit like the Cairos I'd never heard of. I also got the Frank Howard off him and sold it to Sam at a Ritz all-dayer.

The UK hit was Indigo studios in Manchester. We did get all the soul stuff really but told Richard because he'd been going in there whilst working for RCA but had never bothered going upstairs where the 45s were. There were also loads of rare pop but weren't intested. We got the tip from some guy who'd had a Doris Troy outta there a few years before but he was no longer into soul. There was no TMG stuff though. Supposedly Johnny Hamp's stuff from either Top of the Pops or RSG when it was recorded at Plymouth Grove in Manchester.

ROD

I went the day after you Rod if you remember. Got around 250 UK demos (most of the remaining non Northern soul stuff plus lots of the rare collectable pop stuff for resale). There was only one TMG - Marv Johnson (525) but only a stickered demo (which I think was the only form demo was issued?). I've always thought somebody else got the Motown ones if there were any there in the first place.What I got was soul like High Keyes, Barbara Mason, Tommy G and the Charms etc etc on London, lots of yellow Chess, Atlantic, Red Bird and Cam Parkway, some Soul Supplys, girl group stuff (which I've always collected) etc. The pop stuff including Johns Children, Dantalians Chariot, Nico on Immediate, Bowie etc . Funny thing tho' was that I left all the "common" pop chart records like the Searchers, Swinging Blue Jeans and lots of Beatles ! (which all had release sheets with them and would now have been worth more than a lot of the Northern now).The other funny thing was that when I went into Indigo the price was 20p each but mid way though (probably when they saw how much I was buying) they shouted upstairs that the price has gone up to 35p. I had to nip out to the nearby bank to get more money!

I have been told they were in fact the demos sent to the Manchester Top of the Pops studio. You could almost work it out that there were none after the time it had moved to London

John Marriott

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No you didn´t Davethumbup.gif you sold it to me, while i was helping you out of one of your many marital crisisboxing.gif

See you over new year mategood.gif

Steve

Ah yes, now you mention it and wasn't there a Pete Hamilton Generation involved as well.

Yes hope you can make it to Hip City, Malayka doesn't believe you, she says you always say you are comingwhistling.gif

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This thread got me thinking about some of the Stafford things, By the early 80's it often wasn't so much about discovering things, but trying to find a copy of very rare know 45's that hadn't seen any or little turntable action.

Like Fantasions-G.I. Joe, one saturday Ady Pountain and I set off early for Stafford so we could meet up with Kev Roberts in some pub near Stone I think, as he had 2 copies of The Charades on Harlem Hit Perade for sale. Over a few drinks the conversation moved to super rare records and he mentioned another record with a patriotic feel to it along the line of The Charades, G.I. Joe. He said he thought Martin Copple had a copy, so the following week I gave Martin a ring, he said he had it but wouldn't part with it as he thought he had one of only 2 know copies, so I all but gave up on it. But then a few months latter a guy turns up at Stafford with a copy in his sales box for lttle more than a £100, took me a second and it was mine.

Larry Wright-Sweet, sweet kisses. Again well know to Detroit collectors as a very rare record, tried for so long to get a copy, but with no luck. Then Chris King rang me up and asked if I would like to have Popcorn Wylie on at Stafford, said yest straight away, also asked if Chris could ask him if he still had a copy of the record. Richard had a rumage around at home and found three. He brought them over to Stafford, I had one, Chis had one and I think Clarkie had the other, hit the deskd that very same night.

One I did find from the get go was Willie & The Mighty Magnificents-Check it baby. Was djing at a Buzzard alldays and Ian Stewart was selling the very last remains of the Simon Sussan collection first brought into the counrty by Colin B a few years before. After having a route through saw the record, now I was already playing a Intrumental by them 'Soulin' covered up as The Frankie Croker Band-Danger Zone, so thought at £15 i'll take a chance. Got it home loved it and after a fewe plays decided to cover it up as Willie Kendricks, mainly because there is a line in it that say 'you better change your ways' took it to Stafford and within a few months it was a floor packer.

One Ady and I discovered, only to find that same night it had already been discovered by someone else was Johnny Rogers. Many saturday afternoons would be spent at Ady's house, at the time he was the only guy I knew that had a real record room. I would take up new finds of mine and ask for his opion and he would play me some of his. He played me Johnny Rogers, fell in love with it there and then a begged him to sell it to me, which he did. Got up to Stafford with it in my box ready to play, Pat would go on before me and bugger me if he doesn't play the record covered up. So I run up to the stage and say 'I know what this is, no you don't it's a one off from John Anderson, it's Johnny Rogers' I said 'and i have one in my box, was going to play it', he was not happy think he had paid John a kings ransom for it.

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