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Pete S

I've Found Dena Barnes

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Amazing, all these years searching for Dena Barnes and her daughter writes to me out of the blue this morning.

Any of you researchers or radio people want to speak to her, I might give you the info if you PM me.

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Fantastic Pete!!

I spent 5 years searching for her a while back when I was doing the Impact/Harry Balk research. She's been 'missing' since Tim A lost track of her. Harry reckons Duke Browner cut two more tracks on her when they were in the studio. Duke Browner's best work was around this time so if someone could dig up these tracks that would be fantastic.

Excellent news Pete.

Regards,

Dave

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any more info Pete ?

I once found some what seemed likely connections on an "peoples" list that could have led somewhere, but you had to pay to get the info so never got around to following it up

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Sorry folks, false alarm. Well actually not - I honestly am in touch with her daughter - but Dena is dead, sadly. I think she is totally gobsmacked about the fact that anyone knew her Mums record! Anyway, I do have a phone number if anyone wants it, and if you get any records you'd better cut me in :thumbsup:

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Sorry folks, false alarm. Well actually not - I honestly am in touch with her daughter - but Dena is dead, sadly. I think she is totally gobsmacked about the fact that anyone knew her Mums record! Anyway, I do have a phone number if anyone wants it, and if you get any records you'd better cut me in :thumbsup:

Ying & Yang Pete!! Good News & then Bad :no:

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Almost certain i,ve seen a film piece on the web talking to i either Dena Barnes daughter or sister which confirmed she was dead . Think the said piece was about Duke Browner and his productions , can,t remember where the fook it was though.

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I think i remember where this was from it was not a film piece , but a interview i think on SoulGuy radio with T im Ashenbende talking about the artists he had met. Her real name was Gardenia Barnes. Sorry for any confusion .

Edited by shinehead

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Almost certain i,ve seen a film piece on the web talking to i either Dena Barnes daughter or sister which confirmed she was dead . Think the said piece was about Duke Browner and his productions , can,t remember where the fook it was though.

She told me she doesn't know who Duke Browner or Harry Baulk are, in fact thats why she contacted me in the first place, to try and find out who produced the record.

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I think i remember where this was from it was not a film piece , but a interview i think on SoulGuy radio with T im Ashenbende talking about the artists he had met. Her real name was Gardenia Barnes. Sorry for any confusion .

Tim printed the songsheet for If You Ever in his fanzine, where it credits "Gardenia Barnes" as co composer.

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Guest Dave Turner

I think i remember where this was from it was not a film piece , but a interview i think on SoulGuy radio with T im Ashenbende talking about the artists he had met. Her real name was Gardenia Barnes. Sorry for any confusion .

Yup, remember that. Ozz & Tim Detroit special or summat like that, recorded around Nov or Dec 2008. Very enjoyable listening. Unfortunately can't find it online anymore.

Basically knock on door, show scan of record (or summat) and "Hey, that's Gardenia" ----- Phone call and turns out she was at a funeral wake but broke off to speak to Tim for an hour or so. She was knocked out that anyone knew of her.

Shame, would like to listen to it again.

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Yup, remember that. Ozz & Tim Detroit special or summat like that, recorded around Nov or Dec 2008. Very enjoyable listening. Unfortunately can't find it online anymore.

Basically knock on door, show scan of record (or summat) and "Hey, that's Gardenia" ----- Phone call and turns out she was at a funeral wake but broke off to speak to Tim for an hour or so. She was knocked out that anyone knew of her.

Shame, would like to listen to it again.

Yes thats the one . Thought i had not dreamt it , Thanks Graham

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don't know if this contact is any good but maybe !!!!!

The artist Dena (Gardenia) Barnes was my sisters mother. Its so amazing how I was just googling her name for my interests and come across all of this love. Although I knew about the record I had never heard it. Gardenia helped raised me and I truly miss her. I had heard that a man from england came to detroit and met with her but thats as far as the story went. My aunt, who is her best friend, doesnt know what came of it. Wow just so amazing to me..cdthompson37@yahoo.com

Jonathan

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Yeah me too,..was a good peice by Tim, she was a choir girl at the local church, and had no idea about her N.S fame over here,..shame that Tim A peice has dissapeared

Edited by Chriss

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don't know if this contact is any good but maybe !!!!!

The artist Dena (Gardenia) Barnes was my sisters mother. Its so amazing how I was just googling her name for my interests and come across all of this love. Although I knew about the record I had never heard it. Gardenia helped raised me and I truly miss her. I had heard that a man from england came to detroit and met with her but thats as far as the story went. My aunt, who is her best friend, doesnt know what came of it. Wow just so amazing to me..cdthompson37@yahoo.com

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

Crystal (Barnes) contacted me earlier which is why I started this topic.

I estimate that dena's record must have sold 20,000 copies in the UK, it's been bootlegged 3 times at least and even got an official release on the UK label Grapevine. That issue must have sold a good 8000 copies, therefore as co-writer she must surely be owed some royalties on that. I would presume that Harry Baulk would have leased the track out. The track has also been released on cd in the UK too, again, there should be royalties owed.

You will truly never know how much her record is loved on the Northern Soul scene, it would rate in most peoples top 20 tracks of all time and had she lived longer, she would definitely have been invited over to the UK.

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Hi Jonathan,

Crystal (Barnes) contacted me earlier which is why I started this topic.

I estimate that dena's record must have sold 20,000 copies in the UK, it's been bootlegged 3 times at least and even got an official release on the UK label Grapevine. That issue must have sold a good 8000 copies, therefore as co-writer she must surely be owed some royalties on that. I would presume that Harry Baulk would have leased the track out. The track has also been released on cd in the UK too, again, there should be royalties owed.

You will truly never know how much her record is loved on the Northern Soul scene, it would rate in most peoples top 20 tracks of all time and had she lived longer, she would definitely have been invited over to the UK.

I think you are right about it being in most people would have it in their fav records.

Specially those of us that where about in the 70s when this was massive.

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Sorry folks, false alarm. Well actually not - I honestly am in touch with her daughter - but Dena is dead, sadly. I think she is totally gobsmacked about the fact that anyone knew her Mums record! Anyway, I do have a phone number if anyone wants it, and if you get any records you'd better cut me in :thumbsup:

I did a short phone interview with Dena around 1985, still have it somewhere if the cassette still works.

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Hi Jonathan,

Crystal (Barnes) contacted me earlier which is why I started this topic.

I estimate that dena's record must have sold 20,000 copies in the UK, it's been bootlegged 3 times at least and even got an official release on the UK label Grapevine. That issue must have sold a good 8000 copies, therefore as co-writer she must surely be owed some royalties on that. I would presume that Harry Baulk would have leased the track out. The track has also been released on cd in the UK too, again, there should be royalties owed.

You will truly never know how much her record is loved on the Northern Soul scene, it would rate in most peoples top 20 tracks of all time and had she lived longer, she would definitely have been invited over to the UK.

Tell her to contact Bug Music in LA and say that she (or whoever it may be) is Dena Barnes heir and they should have her writer's share of publishing and PPL, though some of those releases were on Goldmine, so they would have been lucky to get those!

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All these people who found Dena Barnes in the past, how come you never told Ian Levine when he was making his film, he searched all over for artists but the trail was stone cold in this case.

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Probably something to do with them not wanting to collaborate with one of the scene's major hate campaign figures, which is a shame because petty animosities will have prevented Dena from achieving some much deserved recognition for co-penning and singing one of the scene's most iconic records.

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what a sad but fascinating story pete, even though she's gone, just the fact that she was "found" warms the old cockles and brings a lump to the throat especially as it has a sort of happy conclusion,in as much as her daughter has finally found out just how highly she was revered by the northern scene...or should i say, the legendary recordings she bestowed for our enjoyment.:hatsoff2:

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:yes:I sold my scooter to Clive Jones some 30 years ago

part of the deal was Dena Barnes on Demo :lol: valued at £18

a truly iconic record from this great scene

my scooter on the other hand well lets just say i didnt make much more than the £18 quid Dena was priced at :lol: but years later I was rewarded

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Im surprised her daughter didnt know that we here in England knew Gardenia and her records! I guess shes forgotten. When I tracked her about 17 or so years ago, it was her daughter who was the point of contact. Gardenia was at a wake for a friends funeral on the day we tracked her. The family of T J Fowler (BROOKS BROS etc) were close friends of Gardenia, and called her up for us. The daughter took the call and told us Gardenia was at the wake. The daughter then explained to her what we wanted, and Gardenia told her it was ok to interrupt the wake and go to her. We duly did that and spent a fantastic and memorable few hours in the company of her and her friends. I interviewed her by dictaphone, and still have what must be the only live tape of any interview with her about her life and music.........PRICELESS!! I intend to publish that interview, or play it live on radio...........and then I'll give a copy to the family and the Detroit Society.

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Im surprised her daughter didnt know that we here in England knew Gardenia and her records! I guess shes forgotten. When I tracked her about 17 or so years ago, it was her daughter who was the point of contact. Gardenia was at a wake for a friends funeral on the day we tracked her. The family of T J Fowler (BROOKS BROS etc) were close friends of Gardenia, and called her up for us. The daughter took the call and told us Gardenia was at the wake. The daughter then explained to her what we wanted, and Gardenia told her it was ok to interrupt the wake and go to her. We duly did that and spent a fantastic and memorable few hours in the company of her and her friends. I interviewed her by dictaphone, and still have what must be the only live tape of any interview with her about her life and music.........PRICELESS!! I intend to publish that interview, or play it live on radio...........and then I'll give a copy to the family and the Detroit Society.

Love to hear that recording interview Tim .... as you say PRICELESS !!!!

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Hi Jonathan,

Crystal (Barnes) contacted me earlier which is why I started this topic.

I estimate that Dena's record must have sold 20,000 copies in the UK, it's been bootlegged 3 times at least and even got an official release on the UK label Grapevine. That issue must have sold a good 8000 copies, therefore as co-writer she must surely be owed some royalties on that. I would presume that Harry Baulk would have leased the track out. The track has also been released on CD in the UK too, again, there should be royalties owed.

You will truly never know how much her record is loved on the Northern Soul scene, it would rate in most peoples top 20 tracks of all time and had she lived longer, she would definitely have been invited over to the UK.

:rolleyes: HI ALL I RELY DON'T THINK GOD BLESS HER, SHE WOULD BE ENTITLED TO ANY MONEY AT ALL PETE, THE CASH FROM ALL SALES WOULD GO TO STUDIO PRODUCERS & COMPANY DIRECTORS, WHO OFTEN ARE THE SAM PEOPLE, BACK IN THE 60 S

POP GROUPS IN THE UK WERE BEING RIPPED OF UNTILLTHE BEATLES STARTED TO WRITE SONGS FOR THERE LPs TRUE.i TELLS YOU IN THE STATES WE ALL NO THE DETROIT SAGA OF H.D.H, AND IT WAS NO DIFFERENT AT THE ED WINGATE SET UP, SHE WOULD HAVE SOLD THE SONG FOR $15+ AND GOT A RECORDING FEE OF $20 THATS ALL ALSO IF LUCKY THE STUDIO MIGHT GIVE A PROMOTION DEAL, THATS HOW THEY MADE A LIVING,

DESMOND RILEY, RIPPED DAVE BARKER OFF FOR 1000s BY JUST PAYING FOR THE TUNE AND RECORDING SESSION, RILEY EVEN PUT ANSELL COLLINS ON THE LABEL, HE WAS NOT EVEN AT THE SESSION, MOST OF A FAVORITE RECORDS AND ARTISTS HAVE LINED THE BOSSES POCKETS NOT THE ARTISTS, NOW IT'S ONLY BEEN 15 TEARS OR SO THAT HEY MADE MONEY, AND THATS ALL OVER SINCE THE INTERNET CAME ALONG, WE ARE ALL TO BLAME AS WHAT PERCENTAGE OF YOUR RECORD COLLECTION WENT TO PAY THE ARTIST, AND WHAT DJ HAS GOT A LICENSE TO PUBLICLY PLAY RECORDS, ONE DAY SOME ONE WILL COP IT, DAVE GODIN USE TO RANT ON AND ON ABOUT THIS TOPIC, ALONG WITH THE ONCE POWERFUL MUSICIAN'S UNION,:thumbsup: DAVE "KEEP MUSIC LIVE"

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DESMOND RILEY, RIPPED DAVE BARKER OFF FOR 1000s BY JUST PAYING FOR THE TUNE AND RECORDING SESSION, RILEY EVEN PUT ANSELL COLLINS ON THE LABEL, HE WAS NOT EVEN AT THE SESSION,

I don't think that statement is correct, presuming you're talking about Double Barrel?

Ansell Collins made the tune, it's him playing on it. He sold it to Winston Riley, who was then able to do anything he liked with it.

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I don't think that statement is correct, presuming you're talking about Double Barrel?

Ansell Collins made the tune, it's him playing on it. He sold it to Winston Riley, who was then able to do anything he liked with it.

Yes, Desmond Riley and Winston Riley are two different people, Desmond sang ('Skinheads A Message To you' among others) and Winston was a producer.

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Guest sharmo 1

Im surprised her daughter didnt know that we here in England knew Gardenia and her records! I guess shes forgotten. When I tracked her about 17 or so years ago, it was her daughter who was the point of contact. Gardenia was at a wake for a friends funeral on the day we tracked her. The family of T J Fowler (BROOKS BROS etc) were close friends of Gardenia, and called her up for us. The daughter took the call and told us Gardenia was at the wake. The daughter then explained to her what we wanted, and Gardenia told her it was ok to interrupt the wake and go to her. We duly did that and spent a fantastic and memorable few hours in the company of her and her friends. I interviewed her by dictaphone, and still have what must be the only live tape of any interview with her about her life and music.........PRICELESS!! I intend to publish that interview, or play it live on radio...........and then I'll give a copy to the family and the Detroit Society.

Hi Tim how you doing man? I remember comming 'round to your joint not long after you came back from that trip , Do I remeber corectly that she (or someone) told you that Duke Browner was playing drums on "ever walked" and she was really crying her eyes out when she sang it as her boyfriend had just dumped her.My mind be a bit foggy (too many strange ciggies!) but I'm sure you said something like that all the best mate Simon (Hunt).

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I don't think that statement is correct, presuming you're talking about Double Barrel?

Ansell Collins made the tune, it's him playing on it. He sold it to Winston Riley, who was then able to do anything he liked with it.

:unsure: HI ALL ...DONT BE PEDANTIC PETE, I KNOW I CANT SPELL, BUT I DON'T RECALL SAYING ANSEL DID NOT WRITE PREFORM OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

I SAID/STATED HE WAS NOT AT THE SESSION, AND FOR THE RECORD, AS I PERSONALLY KNOW DAVE BARKER IT,S HIS LYRICS, FINAL. :lol: HE JUST GOT THE SESSION FEE, EXACT;TLY THE SAME AS 99.9% OF RECORDING ARTISTS, VOCALIST OR MUSICIAN,

AS FOR DAVE, 9 YEARS AGO HE(DAVE B) NEARLY COME TO WOLVERHAMPTON, AS A SURPRISE GUEST ON MY 50TH BIRTHDAY IN THE PLOUGH & HARROW,??

ALSO A LESSER KNOW FACT IS THIS:- THE LATE PAMA DICE TOASTED OVER RARE SOUL WHEN I DJ ed IN A PUB IN WANDSWORTH ROAD, BACK IN THE 90s AND I HAVE THE TAPE TO PROVE IT" SO THERE, HOW UNIQUE IS THAT MATE, BUT I DIGRESS IN THE CON FORT THAT MARK LAMAR, KNOW SWEET FA,

HAVE DUG OUT 100 NEL TITLES PLUS QUITE A FEW SPARES, SOME I WILL GIVE YOU OTHERS MAY HAVE A COST/ ph34r.gif DAVE "I USED TO WORK ONCE UPON A TIME"

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ALSO A LESSER KNOW FACT IS THIS:- THE LATE PAMA DICE TOASTED OVER RARE SOUL WHEN I DJ ed IN A PUB IN WANDSWORTH ROAD, BACK IN THE 90s AND I HAVE THE TAPE TO PROVE IT" SO THERE, HOW UNIQUE IS THAT MATE, BUT I DIGRESS IN THE CON FORT THAT MARK LAMAR, KNOW SWEET FA,

I remember Ranking Roger who used to be chanter with the brummie band The Beat, used to be the house DJ at Barbarellas in Brum and used to toast the lyrics to Angelic Upstarts 'I'm an upstart' over Prince FarI dub tracks before punk bands came on, though what this useless piece of information has to with Dena Barnes........

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:thumbsup: HI ALL ...DONT BE PEDANTIC PETE, I KNOW I CANT SPELL, BUT I DON'T RECALL SAYING ANSEL DID NOT WRITE PREFORM OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

I SAID/STATED HE WAS NOT AT THE SESSION, AND FOR THE RECORD, AS I PERSONALLY KNOW DAVE BARKER IT,S HIS LYRICS, FINAL. :ohmy: HE JUST GOT THE SESSION FEE, EXACT;TLY THE SAME AS 99.9% OF RECORDING ARTISTS, VOCALIST OR MUSICIAN,

AS FOR DAVE, 9 YEARS AGO HE(DAVE B) NEARLY COME TO WOLVERHAMPTON, AS A SURPRISE GUEST ON MY 50TH BIRTHDAY IN THE PLOUGH & HARROW,??

ALSO A LESSER KNOW FACT IS THIS:- THE LATE PAMA DICE TOASTED OVER RARE SOUL WHEN I DJ ed IN A PUB IN WANDSWORTH ROAD, BACK IN THE 90s AND I HAVE THE TAPE TO PROVE IT" SO THERE, HOW UNIQUE IS THAT MATE, BUT I DIGRESS IN THE CON FORT THAT MARK LAMAR, KNOW SWEET FA,

HAVE DUG OUT 100 NEL TITLES PLUS QUITE A FEW SPARES, SOME I WILL GIVE YOU OTHERS MAY HAVE A COST/ ph34r.gif DAVE "I USED TO WORK ONCE UPON A TIME"

Dave I was going by what you said "Ansel Collins wasn't at the session" and thought you meant he had nothing to do with the track.

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Dave I was going by what you said "Ansel Collins wasn't at the session" and thought you meant he had nothing to do with the track.

:rolleyes: Hi All ..... Just a game of 'CAT N MOUSE' Pete, but it's a shame for many an artist from the 50's & 60's who never knew that their song was recognized by black music purists over the pond and now back in the US of A. recognize the quality of it's all in the groove.

Dena 2 sided classic, should have been rewarded with a local state Hit at the least, it's a record that was very elusive for the likes of myself when I had a US collection of some Merritt, I must play the boot at least once a month,ph34r.gif DAVE S69,

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ALSO A LESSER KNOW FACT IS THIS:- THE LATE PAMA DICE TOASTED OVER RARE SOUL WHEN I DJ ed IN A PUB IN WANDSWORTH ROAD, BACK IN THE 90s AND I HAVE THE TAPE TO PROVE IT" SO THERE, HOW UNIQUE IS THAT MATE, BUT I DIGRESS IN THE CON FORT THAT MARK LAMAR, KNOW SWEET FA,

I remember Ranking Roger who used to be chanter with the brummie band The Beat, used to be the house DJ at Barbarellas in Brum and used to toast the lyrics to Angelic Upstarts 'I'm an upstart' over Prince FarI dub tracks before punk bands came on, though what this useless piece of information has to with Dena Barnes........

Wasn't that how he got the job with The Beat? Seem to remember an interview with Dave Wakeling to that effect, wasn't just The Upstarts track though, he did it to quite a few others too.

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On 08/12/2010 at 14:56, Dave Moore said:

Fantastic Pete!!

 

I spent 5 years searching for her a while back when I was doing the Impact/Harry Balk research. She's been 'missing' since Tim A lost track of her. Harry reckons Duke Browner cut two more tracks on her when they were in the studio. Duke Browner's best work was around this time so if someone could dig up these tracks that would be fantastic.

 

Excellent news Pete.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Dave

I know this is from ages ago and I have only just joined Soul Source

I have found this on the web and wondered if this may be Dena Barnes

https://www.evansbrownesfuneralhome.com/obituaries/Gardenia-Barnes-131531/#!/Obituary

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Graham Finch might have interviewed Dena in the late nineties?

Two of her daughters comment at the foot of this link.

[Need to go to YouTube to read comments]

 

Edited by David Meikle
Added sentence 3.

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Yes Gardenia passed away a few years ago regrettably. I have a photo or two of her somewhere. Meeting and interviewing her was an awesome point in my life; unreal. Life got in the way and I never got around to publishing the interview. Same for Nabay who I also tracked down and interviewed same trip. Again, I have photos of him. I need to sort it. 

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12 minutes ago, colouredman said:

Yes Gardenia passed away a few years ago regrettably. I have a photo or two of her somewhere. Meeting and interviewing her was an awesome point in my life; unreal. Life got in the way and I never got around to publishing the interview. Same for Nabay who I also tracked down and interviewed same trip. Again, I have photos of him. I need to sort it. 

Photos would be great :)

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25 minutes ago, colouredman said:

Yes Gardenia passed away a few years ago regrettably. I have a photo or two of her somewhere. Meeting and interviewing her was an awesome point in my life; unreal. Life got in the way and I never got around to publishing the interview. Same for Nabay who I also tracked down and interviewed same trip. Again, I have photos of him. I need to sort it. 

 

Would love to see photos / interview!! 

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51 minutes ago, colouredman said:

Yes Gardenia passed away a few years ago regrettably. I have a photo or two of her somewhere. Meeting and interviewing her was an awesome point in my life; unreal. Life got in the way and I never got around to publishing the interview. Same for Nabay who I also tracked down and interviewed same trip. Again, I have photos of him. I need to sort it. 

C,mon Tim you know you want too.  Trust you are well mate :hatsoff2:been a while. 

Steve 

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2 hours ago, colouredman said:

Yes Gardenia passed away a few years ago regrettably. I have a photo or two of her somewhere. Meeting and interviewing her was an awesome point in my life; unreal. Life got in the way and I never got around to publishing the interview. Same for Nabay who I also tracked down and interviewed same trip. Again, I have photos of him. I need to sort it. 

Nabay ? I remember reading an article that claimed he was Lebanese. Any truth to this Tim ?

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3 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Yep! His parents were Lebanese. He was a good friend of Bob Babbitt. Ive actually wriiten up his story and interview, but I want to run it past Nabay, and his brother before I publish. Nice guy; sat with him and his Mum and interviwed with a dictaphone. Met his brother on a seperate trip too.

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On 24/10/2018 at 20:38, colouredman said:

Yep! His parents were Lebanese. He was a good friend of Bob Babbitt. Ive actually wriiten up his story and interview, but I want to run it past Nabay, and his brother before I publish. Nice guy; sat with him and his Mum and interviwed with a dictaphone. Met his brother on a seperate trip too.

Thanks Tim, I mentioned this to someone a few years back when I heard it played out & they almost wet themselves laughing

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On 24/10/2018 at 14:34, colouredman said:

Yes Gardenia passed away a few years ago regrettably. I have a photo or two of her somewhere. Meeting and interviewing her was an awesome point in my life; unreal. Life got in the way and I never got around to publishing the interview. Same for Nabay who I also tracked down and interviewed same trip. Again, I have photos of him. I need to sort it. 

I'd love to read the Narbay Restum, the Counts,(i think) etc, interview.

'Believe it or Not'...if only i had the money.

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