60S Newies; Do People Want Them?

[Staceys Dad]

well the jury has voted a BIG YES to that question ADY.....

[Jamesh]

Nothing better musically than hearing something new for the first time. Please keep them coming Ady

[Winsford Soul]

60,s newies that's a contradiction in itself, surely they would have been newies in the 60,s .

Ady. why ask the question now. Are you starting to doubt your own ability and taste in music, Please don't.

I first heard the term 60,s newies back in the 80,s when mark bicknall, jumpin joan, roger banks etc, etc where pushing the boundaries musically at various venues up and down the country

 

Steve

Edited August 30, 2014 by Winsford Soul

[Mark S]

60s newies yes yes and thrice yes

[Guest Byrney]

It's not a question of wanting them, we damn well need them. That's the crux of Northern Soul isn't it. 

[Steve L]

It's not a question of wanting them, we damn well need them. That's the crux of Northern Soul isn't it. 

 

Absolutely!!

[Guest Byrney]

Imagine how huge something like Henry C. & The Ivy Leaguers would have been at the Torch. Kind of wasted on today's nighter scene, which is a shame. And that's a real, released record. 

 

Doesn't half sound good through a good sound system Gareth, with Mr Dyson at the helm. 

[Frankie Crocker]

Definitely. Freshly unearthed sounds are the cutting edge of the scene. ALL the Anniversary singles are worth playing out but perhaps there is a resistance to spin UK releases that are readily available. Hopefully Kent as a result of your efforts Ady, will continue to issue lost and overlooked tracks, especially those laid down in the 60's.

[Chalky]

I feel very lucky that some of the outstanding stuff is made available to me as a punter. On the rare occasions when I get asked to dj I've always got a 100 club anniversary 45 to play. Wee Willie Walker goes down with crossover crowd and I heard somone play a carver of the unissued Judy Clay track Upset my heart etc and it went down a storm! Keep them coming all you vinyl detectives

 

That Judy Clay needs putting out on Kent Town/Select, fantastic record. 

[Chalky]

It's intriguing to wonder whether some records would have been bigger if they'd been rarer, or ignored if they'd been more common.

one thing's for sure : none of us will be as objective as we'd like to be. Some dont appear to even try - their 'taste' starting around the £300 mark!

 

There are definitely many rare records if only a tenner would be ignored.  There is also a snob factor with common records as well.  Probably an ego or dick waving thing at work where every record they play has to be in demand rarities.

 

We was talking about price last night and my mate said he had someone say to him I don't buy unless £100+.  There loss as they are missing out on some great records.

[Jaco]

There are definitely many rare records if only a tenner would be ignored. There is also a snob factor with common records as well. Probably an ego or dick waving thing at work where every record they play has to be in demand rarities.

We was talking about price last night and my mate said he had someone say to him I don't buy unless £100+. There loss as they are missing out on some great records.

The person who only buys if £100+ must have forfeited the right to own 90% of the stuff available. Mental.

[Patto]

Has the Willie Kendricks--Time Changes Things been released on a Pied Piper single yet and if not is it scheduled for one.What a record,always loved the harmonies of the Metros version but the Kendricks has the Northern Factor

[Dave Rimmer]

I certainly have no problem playing 100 Club Anniversary singles, or previously unreleased things on Kent select.

 

I've also, despite Ady's comments to the contrary earlier in the thread, never had a problem playing unreleased stuff that he has kindly given me. And it's not as though I DJ on the Modern scene is it   

 

So the simple answer is, yep, people do still want unreleased sixties putting out, and some DJs will quite happily assist you in doing that 

[Mick Boyle]

Not had the pleasure of attending the 100 club yet but it is on my list

Seen all you guys play a 100 club special at Prestatyn in the redemption room and it was so refreshing to

listen to stuff I didn't know but instantly wanted

Keep it up. Mick 

[TheBigO]

For me its a yes! I still get that sense of excitement that I used to get when I first started out way back when if I hear a new sound out or if the words unissued/unreleased/acetate etc are attached. Providing that its a great toon and not just a mediocre one I see no problem with spinning it out and trying to give it the exposure it deserves. After all, isn't this what the scene is about, bringing to the dance floor sounds that otherwise would never have seen the light of day?

For me I have no problem if a sound that is only available on CD is played out and indeed we had many that were programmed from Kent CDs etc at The Plinston that packed the floor. I think back to the discovery of the Motown tapes and all the DJs that had emidiscs cut to promote them out and about in the 80's. Its always been the way. Problem is now the scene is so fractured with different opinions on just about everything that the central point, that is the music, is starting to suffer as debates rage over can you or can you not play it because its never issued, its only on CD etc etc etc.

 

RussellGilbert above makes the point well: Great music unearthed from wherever deserves to be heard - end of story.

[Soulstu]

For what it's worth, when I spin a few records at the next Amsterdam Soul Club (Sept 20th for anyone interested!) I'll have Maxine Brown "Torture" & September Jones "Voo doo madamoiselle" in my box. Just two of so many amazing discoveries! Why would people not want to play them? Perhaps some people think they should only be playing their own discoveries and not somebody else's.

 

Great music unearthed from wherever deserves to be heard - end of story.

 

Keep them coming, Ady!

That's the crux of it - I've not heard Voodoo Mademoiselle out yet (at the nights I go to) and surely that record would be a shoe in - a major recent discovery/release that absolutely oozes northern. I'd sprint across the car park, boot the door open and slide straight on to the floor if I heard  that as I arrived.

 

It's not the fact that it's a £10 'cheapie' as loads of not-rare records are played out where I go. I think it's some of the 'oldies' punters who just won't respond.

[Len]

No we don't have a mailing list as they are usually a very limited run and I think there is more chance of a DJ playing a record if he's paid cash for it than got it as a freebie.

 

I've also on occasion done cuts for other DJs to play them out before release but apart from on the Modern Soul scene they don't seem to have either played them or had much effect. One of the problems is that it takes two plus years to break an exclusive record, a figure Butch roughly agrees with, and licensors don't want to wait about that long before royalties start coming through, even though they've waited 50 years since recording them 

 

I know what you mean about a D.Jing playing a record if he's paid cash for it over a freebie, but I actually disagree, especially if you are talking about an exclusive - You gave a few D.J's a Kent D.J copy of 'Little Anne - What Should I Do' (with a covering letter) a few months before it was released, and I remember Soul Sam playing it (as I'm sure others did) I also played it at The Embankment Club (which was your intension by giving me a copy) But I do agree, the moment anyone can get a record, a lot of D.J's lose interest in playing them - A crime really, but we all understand the thinking behind it.

 

I think a longer gap between giving the D.J's the D.J copies to play as their exclusives would keep a new discovery 'out there' longer. The timing of the general release could coincide with the D.J's shelf life of that record, then it would hopefully transfer to other D.J's as their new sound to play which would be recognisable, so an instant hit for them.

 

All the best,

 

Len

Edited August 31, 2014 by LEN

[Henrun]

Great thread this. On the strength of it I have just bought the Pied Piper CD and September Jones7" which if it arrives on time I'll play out on Thursday. Easily influenced I am.

I've Proberbly been guilty of overlooking new releases of late but I repent!

Edited August 31, 2014 by henrun

[Mellorful]

I love hearing new 60's northern, unissued or otherwise, as long as it's not R&B or Funk.

 

The problem is that I only collect US originals.

 

If it's a UK issue then to me it's just another record I'll never have.

 

Nice to hear but I probably wouldn't buy one.

Betty Boo - Say it isn't so  .......... Grapevine label

Are you denying yourself pleasure for the sake of a hangup?

 

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL.... A COUPLE OF THINGS,

DJs who get freebies!, in the early to mid 7ts it was relatively easy to get on a mailing list.

 

All you had to do is right to a record company & ask them, in reply they took some basic info about you,

were you a journalist or in the music trade, if you ran a mobile discotheque, were you a house DJ (working for MECCA, TOP RANK, & so on), the average size of the audience you played to, & what was your preferred music genre,

depending on what you told them they would send you new releases, old stock of poor sellers, posters, badges,             most of the records were crap (a lot of crap was put on vinyl in the 7ts).

 

However some of the early reissue Northern Soul records were sent,

PYE DISCO DEMAND was a good one and at the time the DEMOS were very collectable amongst most of the DJs, as were the releases on the MCA LABEL. I can recall a top dealer of soul trying to find a copy of Lada Edmund jr, DEMO,

 

While working as a roadie in a East Midlands working mans club, I was approach by a man from SELECTA DISC, who put me on the new label BLACK MAGIC, this was about 10 weeks before the first release, meanwhile at WIGAN the big sound being played, in fact one of the CASINO'S top records to pack the floor was getting huge, I was sent a promo about 1 month before it was released along with a cloth badge & other bits, 5 days to go, and I received 10 issues on the good looking BLACK MAGIC LABEL + a new demo of "blowing my mind to pieces" female vocal care of SIMON, THE SATURDAY NIGHT AT WIGAN I sold my 10 copy's for £2.50 each jumping the gun over RW,,

 

RE:- Mick Smith he was one of the few non Wigan DJs to get RCA acetates, from I assume Richard or the Scotchman, 

Mick also received DEMOs from GOLDMINE KENT & so on, being the good man he is I still have many white label stuff, he got pleasure of giving them to UK collectors I think myself & top UK collector (2nd to Mick) ROY GELDER have complete sets,

Apart from the 100 club anniversary 45, you don't see the free 45 any more, especially with the quality that ACE/KENT achieve, more often record companies give CDs away   YIPPEEE!, that brings me onto CDs being played at venues...

How I cringed at the posting that CDs were played at a rare soul night in Letchworth, the truth of the matter if I was in the venue my Skinhead Roots would have busted the machine there & then, I kid you not, I thought you all obeyed the rules, I really hope that practice will never be repeated, as i will be paying a long overdue visit, if you ain't got the records to play I will do you a free night + usual expense's  I will be contacting my son Taffy for his verdict on such a breach

Well I mean nuff said!  DAVE K

[Ian Dewhirst]

No we don't have a mailing list as they are usually a very limited run and I think there is more chance of a DJ playing a record if he's paid cash for it than got it as a freebie.

 

Actually I don't necessarily agree with that Ady. It's always nice to get an advance promo of a great record and if you know you're getting it in advance and could be influential in breaking it, then what's not to like? Plus you'd be getting the record to everyone at the same time and thus hopefully creating some synergy and an initial buzz, which could hopefully spread to better advance orders for the general release hopefully.

 

These days it might take a few weeks for someone to actually get hold of the releases. If they have a local record shop and can get there every week, then fair enough, lucky them. Otherwise they'll be having to order it, as and when they finally get around to it and assuming they're that diligent with UK releases! So it could be a couple of months before there's any momentum. 

 

I reckon it'd be worth putting a limited mailing-list together. If you covered say, 50 key people - 25 key name Northern DJs, 15 good Radio DJs and 10 Press/Online reviewers and internet sites, I think you'd get some bang for your buck and maybe create a lot more awareness for the next releases and the Ace/Kent back catalog in general. I know Ace/Kent's reputation is the best word of mouth promotion you can get but 50 promo copies won't kill anyone, especially if you could sell another 500 copies and up the pressing quantity. Gotta be worth a shot surely? 

 

Ian D

[Russ Vickers]

Hell yes, yes & thrice yes....its the life blood !.  Please never stop what your doing Ady.....

 

Best Russ

[Len]

Just want to add - How lovely that you (Ady) put down your exclusive giveaways as 'just' a freebie. Christ man, some would like to find one exclusive let alone the amount you have come up with! I for one was absolutely over the moon to receive it, and gladly played it during the very next spot I did (and some)

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited August 31, 2014 by LEN

[Chalky]

I played three Kent 45's last night.  George Soule - Midnight Affair, Allan Toussant - Laugh Till I Cry (bloody fantastic) and a request for Melba Moore, happy to oblige, tell a lie had a request for Spencer Wiggins Talk It Over which I was happy to play as well, so that was four.  Quality "newies" are hard to come by and the scene has to make the most of releases of previously unissued material.  I stop at reissues that already have an original issue though.  There are some quality releases out there not just from Kent, Numerro with tracks like "That Girl" from The Notations, the recent Valdons release, the Gene Washington and the Ironsiders currently causing a stir, quality cheap dance music fit for any venue.

 

The scene has to embrace them, it is stale enough at times and if it means playing a CD then so be it.  

 

It is a dance scene no longer ruled by the music, the music actually comes second to many people out there.  

 

I don't for a minute advocate laptops, hard drives but it is about time DJ's with character, individuality and a bit of thought rose to the top rather than the sheep mentality driven scene we currently have.  Surely it would be a stronger scene for it?

 

The scene at times needs to take its head from up it arse before it disappears up it totally.  Dj's have always, always played cuts of unissued and even ultra rarities that a collector wouldn't part with but was happy to supply a cut, Jackie Day - Naughty Boy for example.   I know it isn't everyones way of doing things but it was either that or deprive the scene of some great dance music. 

[Eddie Hubbard]

I wasn't particularly a fan of the Dean Courtney myself as I felt it was too Wigan friendly for my tastes. Did you think any of the Sharon Scott's were better than the released records? I certainly did and I really like the RCA 45. Similarly the unreleased Nancy Wilcox beat the released ones hands down, though the release wasn't so hot in the first place. There was a much bigger buzz when the first lot of RCA/Pied Pipers got played in the 90s than the equally good recent batch. I know a lot of collectors like Eddie Hubbard and the Soul Hit crowd loved them but it only partially crossed over onto the dancefloor.

I would of course say yes to any great new unreleased recordings epitomising the authentic  Northern /Rare Soul sound of the  early 70's Torch /Wigan /Mecca etc .Growing up with records The Hesitations / Metros  etc with that Pied Piper " sound " or the huge amount of great records on RCA , makes it easy for people like myself to identify with .I remember when you guested on Richards " Soul Source " , and on playing Dean Courtney " Today is my day " Richard mentioned that it would have been a huge record in the Wigan era .This is the problem , the " Northern " sound is nowadays so diverse , and being a regular All Nighter attendee , one can't help but note that an earthier , funky , harder edged sound is replacing much of the 4 beats to the bar , strings , baritone sax , uptown sound many of us were raised on . This isn't such a bad thing , people who have stuck with the scene through thick and thin , moved with the times etc , can ,I think more readily accept the changes in sound that have happened over the years .

 

You have discovered some amazing recordings in the vaults Ady , some have been ahead of their time , and some sadly would have been huge years ago , but maybe not today .Sides like The Paramount Four will sometimes cross all the boundaries and be embraced by everyone ,I must hear that record everytime I go out , it never fails to fill the floor and is loved by most it would appear . Of course these records should be played in the venues , Chalky played records like Lillie Fields " Changes " last night at Lifeline and it went down a storm , but you are struggling for the most part with DJ's wanting to be different to the last one , play their " own " discoveries , forging their own identity , so a record that anyone can own doesn't always cut it with the scene , no matter how packed the floor is .

 

Records like Nancy Wilcox " Gamblers Blues " and " She'll be leaving you " have been popular for a while now , having built up demand  ,I'm sure you would be rewarded with great sales and plays from the scene , if and when you decide to release them .

 

Keep on doing what you're doing Ady , if they are good enough ,I'm sure they will break through ......Eddie

[Eddie Hubbard]

I played three Kent 45's last night.  George Soule - Midnight Affair, Allan Toussant - Laugh Till I Cry (bloody fantastic) and a request for Melba Moore, happy to oblige, tell a lie had a request for Spencer Wiggins Talk It Over which I was happy to play as well, so that was four.  Quality "newies" are hard to come by and the scene has to make the most of releases of previously unissued material.  I stop at reissues that already have an original issue though.  There are some quality releases out there not just from Kent, Numerro with tracks like "That Girl" from The Notations, the recent Valdons release, the Gene Washington and the Ironsiders currently causing a stir, quality cheap dance music fit for any venue.

 

The scene has to embrace them, it is stale enough at times and if it means playing a CD then so be it.  

 

It is a dance scene no longer ruled by the music, the music actually comes second to many people out there.  

 

I don't for a minute advocate laptops, hard drives but it is about time DJ's with character, individuality and a bit of thought rose to the top rather than the sheep mentality driven scene we currently have.  Surely it would be a stronger scene for it?

 

The scene at times needs to take its head from up it arse before it disappears up it totally.  Dj's have always, always played cuts of unissued and even ultra rarities that a collector wouldn't part with but was happy to supply a cut, Jackie Day - Naughty Boy for example.   I know it isn't everyones way of doing things but it was either that or deprive the scene of some great dance music. 

You played Lillie Fields as well Chalky ,all very refreshing ....

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Take the long view Ady - in a few years time they'll be falling over themselves to pay silly money for deleted Kent 7's...hopefully, anyway!

 

Went to bed last night re-reading the sleeve notes to the Pied Piper CD, a work of art in themselves, and it's only the lack of CD players at most venues that stop me playing more Kent cuts! Keep on doing what you're doing....

[purist]

Ady, I seem to remember back before the soul source days when a lot of us were on Soul Talk chat list (prob late 90's?)

anyway, in one discussion about Kent albums which had unreleased tracks on them I was jokingly moaning about carrying a couple of Kent LP's with me to DJ at a regular "1980's & Stafford" memory nite, so that I could play Upset My Heart/You Could Be My Remedy/ I'm A Lover Chuck Carter  and some other Keb, Guy & Your unreleased exclusives from that era, and it led to a discussion where you said words to the effect of "I'm happy for DJ's to cut a 7" disc to play out from Kent CD's & LP's", and then some joke about hoping that the DJ concerned actually bought the CD/LP in question and didn't just beg it from a friend.
I sat down and wrote out a list of unreleased Kent tracks and thought "as soon as I've got some spare cash I'll get these cut". Needless to say 15+ years later I still have the list, but don't have any of these cut, mainly because all my spare cash goes on buying records, predominantly old 45's, LP's & Acetates(or yet another record box)  but, and here is the key - occasionally I find I simply have to buy a newly minted 45 because they are so bloody good. Case in point for me, Dave Hamilton's Who Are You Trying To Fool. That is such an awesome tune I cant understand anybody who likes N/S not owning one and carrying it in their playbox?
Having said that any DJ worth their salt should have their own unknown/hardly known tunes in their box which should take preference over some tune that's available to all, shouldn't they? Then it's a case of your Kent Select/100 Club vying for turntable time with whatever rarity or recently acquired long time want that the DJmakes up the rest of their set with.
So quality does matter, but equally exposure. For the first 30 odd years of our scene most records heard for the first time could be immediately categorised into "brilliant", or "just great" (with the very occasional whats he playing this chite for) It seems to me that discoveries in recent years often require "working" much more by DJ's. When you started with, for example Hy Tones "Good News" I thought it was bordering between average and okay, definitely nothing to get super excited about. Maybe a dozen venue plays later it struck me that it is indeed a brilliant tune, but if I'd been in my local shop or a youtube link I wouldn't have played it a dozen times, so it wouldn't have hit me and my money would have gone elsewhere.
Finally, it also comes down to venues more than DJ's. There isn't a vast amount of well attended nites that play outside either the two opposite ends of the scale" Nostalgia Northern" or " Lifeline". Places where playing a Kent 45 wouldn't be frowned upon and neither would they clear the floor. I remember a few years back at Albrighton (which, for example, was one of those venues I'm talking about from the middle ground)  that each years 100 club anniversary single would get played all year until the next new one joined the list, but even then the real great ones weren't completely dropped. I think Lock & Key, When The Boy That You Love, San Fran TKO's etc, kept getting played for years. Like everybody has said, we all want you to keep going, looking for 'proper' northern newies and getting them played and making them available, but I should imagine it's something you have to work very hard at, keeping an up to date list of DJ's who not only could, but who actually would, give needle time to your new finds.
best of luck, keep going, just leave the funky tunes in the vaults

[Tattoodave]

I hope you're not hearing those little negative voices in your head again Ady, just ignore them as always, what you're doing is perfect, your new discoveries blow so many people away.  That's why I'll be at the Anniversary allnighter for my free single.

[grouse]

Betty Boo - Say it isn't so  .......... Grapevine label

Are you denying yourself pleasure for the sake of a hangup?

I actually have Betty Boo but I bought it when it came out, and it's in a box I keep for 'oddities'.

 

I wouldn't buy it now as I only collect US originals, not really a hangup, I can play the unissued stuff any time I want as most of them are on CD or Youtube.

 

A lot of the comments so far are from people who want them to DJ with.

 

It seems that everyone is a DJ nowadays.

 

I think the records Ady has discovered and released are fantastic. The RCA/Pied Piper stuff in particular.

 

I buy many of the Kent Cds just not the vinyl.

Edited August 31, 2014 by grouse

[Guest Dave Ward]

Baffles me sometimes how dancers behave.

 

Probably because they like dancing ? I've done plenty of dancing on my own in the middle of an empty floor, to support a new record or a DJ. Sometimes it works and within three weeks it's a floor packer, sometimes you realise you're on your own with this one. As for Henry C and the Ivy League it's a go to the bar tune. same old...same old.

[Cover-up]

 

I don't for a minute advocate laptops, hard drives but it is about time DJ's with character, individuality and a bit of thought rose to the top rather than the sheep mentality driven scene we currently have.  Surely it would be a stronger scene for it? 

 

Chalky, I quite agree - there's so much emphasis on "original vinyl only" that I think people get far too bogged down with price tags and pointless "rules" ("is it okay to play this, can we do that?").

 

Taking the OVO and flipping it around a bit, I'd prefer to hear ORIGINAL vinyl - as in, something new, something with imagination, something unusual, something unique - rather than "original" vinyl - i.e. a 50 year old bit of plastic. 

 

I played September Jones "Voodoo Madamoiselle" at my club last night, early doors, and it was the first record to get people up on the floor. If it's a club filled with young folk looking to hear great music, they'd rather hear a Kent 45 than some clapped out £1,000 northern oldie.

 

Mind you, Melba Moore's "The Magic Touch" is pretty much an oldie anyway - it was released nearly 30 years ago... 

Edited August 31, 2014 by cover-up

[Goldsoul]

However good they are.

I just got a tape through of a storming mid 60s out and out Northern track. Once it's cleared I'll play it at the 100 Club but following Matt's thread I'm wondering if many people will get as big a buzz from it as I do.

I think the oldies crowd are mainly happy to relive their youth and if a new Frank Wilson record were discovered, probably wouldn't bother to listen. The rarer soul crowd don't seem to get excited about tape discoveries as they are never going to be able to collect them in original form and when they get issued on a UK 45 don't bother with it because its not vintage US pressing. Even when records go on to the anniversary single the DJs don't usually pick up on them. I remember Richard Searling and many others raving about Dean Courtney's 'Today Is My Day', describing it as an ultimate Wigan record, yet once it was on 45 nobody bothered, and that was with Sharon Scott's sublime 'Putting My Heart Under Lock & Key' on the flip.

Records like Luther Ingram 'Oh Baby Don't You Weep' did go big but it was mainly down to the mod scene rather than the Northern. Oddly a lot of the new 100 Clubbers seem keener on the funk edge or R&B than the classic Northern sound. They are open-minded and enjoy it all but their preferences are different to those of us who grew up through the 70s.

I'm not bemoaning it, just observing and putting a plug in for people to pick up on some of the old Kent and 100 Club anniversary singles and actually play them out; I think a lot of them deserve some spins and they would be new classic Northern for dancers who must be bored with the top 500 by now.

Top 500....... I don't mean to be derogatory but 300 of anyone's 500 are rarely played. It's a Top 200 now with a few recent turntable hits like Jonathan Capree thrown in.

500 songs at a Soul night/major All Nighter...doesn't happen anymore.

The Top 500 is a banded about  dated phrase.

On a positive note, I do hope the Young Brothers sold, as it's the absolute business.

Edited September 1, 2014 by The Golden 101

[Chalky]

Top 500....... I don't mean to be derogatory but 300 of anyone's 500 are rarely played. It's a Top 200 now with a few recent turntable hits like Jonathan Capree thrown in.

500 songs at a Soul night/major All Nighter...doesn't happen anymore.

The Top 500 is a banded about as a dated phrase.

On a positive note, I do hope the Young Brothers sold, as it's the absolute business.

 

 

I doubt it is 200 at most regular soul nights Kev.  Nighters maybe, but 200 or 500, it is a sad reflection IMO of the lack of imagination on this scene at this time especially with the vast amount of records that have been played on this scene for over 40 plus years.  

[Rob Wigley]

"‹Keep up the "Tape Digging" Ady 

The RCA stuff was mind blowing in all its forms

 

Its just amazing the depth of material that was left in the can and it needs to be heard and issued on an "Original" 45

 

Rob

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Is it all about target audience? What with vinyl being expensive to press, and the storage issue ( CD Baby say if I don't sell my stock they hold for my two releases or have it shipped back to the UK, at my expense, they will bin it). Of course there are plenty of people who say they will play it bla bla bla. Last time I heard 'Tell me' was at Prestatyn in March ( thank you Mark, and we need to chat about lowering the price etc), and the time before the same weekend when Spyder performed it etc.

 

I think that as the options are digital, CD and maybe 7", it widens the scope to market. I have been to numerous dance events recently and I am pleased to hear all sorts including your Kent 45's. And.....I see people going up to the turntables out of curiosity for the song, which could be a possible sale. Also I think air play is important too. It showcases the label, it's intention and the release. Listeners then engage, discuss, deliberate and hopefully purchase. I am no expert, but I am about to ask the likes of Tom Moulton and John Morales to remix something I am working on with a view to pressing up 12" records and getting a London distributor to handle my sales. So, digital and vinyl, no CD's. I must be nuts, but if it was to break even..at this stage I would be happy.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Carl Dixon

[Geoff]

As a regular attender of the 100 Club over the last few years I echo the sentiments Ady, keep looking and finding new soulful tunes. Records like the Demures, the Gerri Grainger cover up and Nancy Wilcox's He'll Be Leaving You are fantastic Northern Soul imo. And they are the only ones that immediately spring to mind this morning as I still am in recovery mode after Lifeline.

 

There are so many great underplayed oldies, so do get a bit disappointed when you keep hearing the usual suspects in a set. I know they are great records but certainly some could do with a rest.

 

I'm always asking more knowledgeable people what record is on now, e.g at Lifeline I asked and was told: this is the Young Brothers' What's Your Game; the Fabulous Peps' With These Eyes; and the Fabulous Apollos' Determination, etc. I'm probably the only Soul Source member who's not really familiar with them but with my memory what do you expect?

 

I do understand that people want different things out of the soul scene and that's everybody's prerogative. I love the social side, meeting my friends and chewing the fat, but it's the music that makes the night. So utmost respect to the DJs finding the "new" soul sounds for us to enjoy.

[Nstomp97]

I love the 60s Newies Ady, I really do appreciate that Pied Piper sound that you play at the 100 Club, I don't really get the whole funk edge or R&B stuff to be honest mate! Gerri Granger - Why Can't It be Tonight, Ben E King - Getting To Me, Carla Thomas - I'll Never Stop Loving You, Maxine Brown - It's Torture, Sharon Scott - Heart Under Lock & Key, Melba Moore - Magic Touch, Lorraine Chandler - You Only Live Twice, Charmaines - I Idolize You...  Yes please   

Edited September 1, 2014 by nstomp97

[Labeat]

On the Soul scene you are either switched on or switched off, those in between.... no hurry, it can grow on you (unfamiliar stuff)

[KevH]

On the Soul scene you are either switched on or switched off, those in between.... no hurry, it can grow on you (unfamiliar stuff)

 

Who do you think you are Neil,,,,Norman Vaughan.?   (target old bugger audience.)

[Ady Croasdell]

I think Ady that it might be an idea to get a track and instead of playing [or hammering] it first yourself, you do a simultaneous general release.

Obviously timing would be something you'd have to get right but first play at 100 club and then you announce now in shops from tonight.

It is then something fresh and exciting that maybe more people would rush out to buy and play out than something they'd heard for past 12 months ?

ROD

There are a lot of great records that take a few hearings though , as someone stated in this thread the Hy Tones took a long while to get off the ground and DJs like Karl Heard getting behind it helped a lot. So unless it was Marvin's version of Do I Love You (pure fiction folks) or something equally earth-shaking, I don't see your suggestion working Rod. Thanks though. Ady

[Chalky]

Whereas exclusivity used to be the driving force behind records years ago when we were younger and people travelled it is a factor that possibly holds a record back today.  As said it takes years for one DJ to break a record.  With the scen becoming more and more regionalised it might be a case of getting the disc to DJ's at popular venues and to maybe step up the publicity machine. 

[Guest CapitolSC]

And talking of  Gerri Grainger hurry up Ady

ill be in the knackers yard by the time you release it 

 

Al H 

[Ady Croasdell]

Good point. Economist call them 'positional goods' I think - items where part of their desirability is the fact that others dont have them.

It's intriguing to wonder whether some records would have been bigger if they'd been rarer, or ignored if they'd been more common.

one thing's for sure : none of us will be as objective as we'd like to be. Some dont appear to even try - their 'taste' starting around the £300 mark!

another factor with vinyl releases, is that they're only really going to sell to djs, and there isn't really any club nights any more where residents can get behind records based purely on the music - djing s just a network of guesting now, with the pressure to show off that comes with it.in some quarters, you get the impression that there might be someone stood behind the dj with a calculator, making sure that the dj's 'good enough'.

One thing about the mod / r&b scene that was refreshing - rarity and value wasn't quite fetishised to such an extent.

regarding Ady's question - I think it's probably right that, except for nostalgic reasons, straight-up 60s northern, with that sort of major-key uplifting (camp?) sound, is to some extent unfashionable, especially with generations who grew up into r&b, dance, funk or hip hop.

]

Thanks Mik, you've nailed the question for me which was actually the secondary one about the younger dance crowd and their preferences.  I know that like-minded souls like most fellow SSers are keen for more of the same, I was really just thinking aloud about how hard it is to break new classic uptempo 60s soul dancers. As some of us get to spend less and less time on the dancefloor it's the preferences of the increasingly younger dancers that will dictate the direction the scene goes in. If I play a new 60s discovery that is appreciated mainly by those sitting or verballing and a funkier (in my opinion less g0od) track works for the dancers, as the promoter and DJ I'm going to tend towards the latter in a lot of cases. Though having said that I ain't got many great funk tracks to play so I'll programme more DJs who do-but ones who have collections and tendencies to cover all bases as you never know quite what type of crowd you'll get on the night.

 

I'm rambling a lot here but I suppose the essence of it is if you want more 60s recent discoveries you need to get out on the floor to them as that is the main way a promoter can gauge the direction a club is going in. I do pay heed to comments too but a vital dancefloor is what makes an all nighter a success.

[Ady Croasdell]

That's the crux of it - I've not heard Voodoo Mademoiselle out yet (at the nights I go to) and surely that record would be a shoe in - a major recent discovery/release that absolutely oozes northern. I'd sprint across the car park, boot the door open and slide straight on to the floor if I heard  that as I arrived.

 

It's not the fact that it's a £10 'cheapie' as loads of not-rare records are played out where I go. I think it's some of the 'oldies' punters who just won't respond.

Thanks Stu, as I don't get out and about much I needed to know what gets spun around the scene. Thanks massively to all the DJs who don't let the availability put them off playing them out and hopefully this thread will nudge a few to give records like Voo Doo Madamoiselle a chance at a more conservative venue. Other Kent tracks that I think suffer from being available are the Dave Hamilton tracks O C Tolbert 'You've Got Me Turned Around' is at least as good as 'Sweep It Out In The Shed' but has largely been ignored compared to that one and Little Ann Who Are You Trying To Fool should be well known right across the scene; Ian Levine rates it very highly. Maybe if we deleted it and put it out in a different format for ten times the price people would play it-only half-joking!

[Ady Croasdell]

Great thread this. On the strength of it I have just bought the Pied Piper CD and September Jones7" which if it arrives on time I'll play out on Thursday. Easily influenced I am.

I've Proberbly been guilty of overlooking new releases of late but I repent!

You are forgiven my child.

[Simsy]

 

Emperors New X Over & Funky Rhythm & Soul Society?

 

NO. 6t's Rhythm & Soul Society. 

[pow wow mik]

I love the 60s Newies Ady, I really do appreciate that Pied Piper sound that you play at the 100 Club, I don't really get the whole funk edge or R&B stuff to be honest mate! Gerri Granger - Why Can't It be Tonight, Ben E King - Getting To Me, Carla Thomas - I'll Never Stop Loving You, Maxine Brown - It's Torture, Sharon Scott - Heart Under Lock & Key, Melba Moore - Magic Touch, Lorraine Chandler - You Only Live Twice, Charmaines - I Idolize You...  Yes please   

I'd say that the Charmaines IS 'r&b stuff' !]

[Ady Croasdell]

Actually I don't necessarily agree with that Ady. It's always nice to get an advance promo of a great record and if you know you're getting it in advance and could be influential in breaking it, then what's not to like? Plus you'd be getting the record to everyone at the same time and thus hopefully creating some synergy and an initial buzz, which could hopefully spread to better advance orders for the general release hopefully.

 

These days it might take a few weeks for someone to actually get hold of the releases. If they have a local record shop and can get there every week, then fair enough, lucky them. Otherwise they'll be having to order it, as and when they finally get around to it and assuming they're that diligent with UK releases! So it could be a couple of months before there's any momentum. 

 

I reckon it'd be worth putting a limited mailing-list together. If you covered say, 50 key people - 25 key name Northern DJs, 15 good Radio DJs and 10 Press/Online reviewers and internet sites, I think you'd get some bang for your buck and maybe create a lot more awareness for the next releases and the Ace/Kent back catalog in general. I know Ace/Kent's reputation is the best word of mouth promotion you can get but 50 promo copies won't kill anyone, especially if you could sell another 500 copies and up the pressing quantity. Gotta be worth a shot surely? 

 

Ian D

I will rethink our promo strategy-or lack of it. However with Amazon and the like I think anyone can get a copy easily in the week of release. Not having regular big venues is the main problem, there are hardly any monthly venues let alone weekly and it takes so many plays to break a record you'd have to hold off for a very long time between promos and issues before any momentum was built up.

[Ady Croasdell]

I played three Kent 45's last night.  George Soule - Midnight Affair, Allan Toussant - Laugh Till I Cry (bloody fantastic) and a request for Melba Moore, happy to oblige, tell a lie had a request for Spencer Wiggins Talk It Over which I was happy to play as well, so that was four.  Quality "newies" are hard to come by and the scene has to make the most of releases of previously unissued material.  I stop at reissues that already have an original issue though.  There are some quality releases out there not just from Kent, Numerro with tracks like "That Girl" from The Notations, the recent Valdons release, the Gene Washington and the Ironsiders currently causing a stir, quality cheap dance music fit for any venue.

 

You Da Man Chalks